"Mom moving girl in video out of Florida"

[barb162]

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/26/Tampabay/Mom_moving_girl_in_vi.shtml

"ST. PETERSBURG - The mother of the 5-year-old girl who was handcuffed at school by police has withdrawn her daughter from Pinellas public schools and is moving out of state, superintendent Clayton Wilcox said Monday night.

The development was the latest in a bizarre saga that began Friday, when a videotape of the handcuffing was made public.

Since then, wrenching video images of the wailing kindergartener being handcuffed by St. Petersburg police have raced around the globe, airing and re-airing on television news shows in the United States, Great Britain, Spain, around Asia and beyond.

On Monday morning, the Largo lawyer representing the girl's mother appeared on five network news shows. He returned wearily to his office to find a fax from the mother, 24-year-old Inga Akins, stating he had been fired. The fax had been sent from the tabloid TV show A Current Affair, on which the mother appeared Friday and Monday."

snip

[Maat]

1. Wow.

Good luck to all: Mom, the Child, and the Lawyer.

As I have said before, as a social worker, cops used to ask me if they should handcuff children; it was my policy that if I was there, there was no cuffing (with the exception of a junior-high-schooler who was being arrested for a violent rape who happened to be almost 6' tall - but that was a different story).

Sad story. God bless them all! I hope Mom is moving somewhere she can get some family assistance - both emotional and financial.

[neuvocat]

2. Given how bad FLA's system is down there

I would have left long ago.

[Maat]

8. Yeah, I hear it is bad.

But I sometimes wonder what the statistics really say.

I worked for CPS and never lost a child. In fact, I visited my kids in foster care on the average of once per week (once per month was what was required).

However, sometimes my coworkers would have a kid detained with a parent, while another was in custody (or something like that); sometimes that parent would take off with the kid (the kid was with a parent, but technically defined as a kid in the System - because there was a Family Maintenance court case). Things like that would occasionally happen. We would always locate Parent and Kid fairly soon - it was pretty predictable where they would go. So, anyway, I wonder what exactly is going on down there.

But I worked in SoCal.

I'm just praying, with respect to this case, that Mom and Child are moving near someone who will support them - maybe help both financially and emotionally. And, maybe, they can find a small private school; my kid is in one that solves every kid's particular problem - without meds.

[neuvocat]

10. Some children have actually disappeared.

I don't think they've been found yet.

[Maat]

13. I wonder ..

disappeared as in ... a parent took them (maybe kidnapped them from Grandma, who was technically a foster parent - because the Dept. arranged for her to get pay ... and the kid was technically classified as a dependent of the court), or ...

really just disappeared out of the foster home ...

(teenagers running away?)

It would be extremely rare for a stranger to abduct the kid ... that just doesn't happen.

Or are we talking about poor recordkeeping as to which kid is in which foster home (but the caseworker knows where the kid is).

I wonder exactly what is meant.

My mind is just working - no big meaningful post here.

[neuvocat]

55. From what I recall...

the children were considered custody of the state and CPS couldn't find them. I might be wrong on that but that's what I seem to remember.

[Bunny]

125. Read this:

http://www.local10.com/news/4357614/detail.html

This is what is meant by "lost".

[cal04]

15. I haven't seen or heard anything, but where was the school

psychologist or social worker? Do they have any in that school?

[MADem]

19. Because of budget cuts

They have "itinerant" or "part time" workers in many of the schools in that district. The "full time" ones have offices in one school, but they have to roam around and cover more than one. I am sure the principal of that school (who is black, btw) would have called on a support professional had one been available.

[merh]

85. Wasn't the principal out or not available

and the vice-principal was the one that was allegedly "handling" the problem?

[Maat]

25. Ummmm ... my guess is 'no.'

[jojo54]

3. I hope she moves some place where she and her daughter

will get some respect. The argument could be that the child has been unruly before, but that's for the school to take up with the mother, not the police. That horrid act was a disgrace IMHO.

[HockeyMom]

4. EVERYBODY should get out of Florida

Snowbirds, Retirees, EVERYBODY.

[Xithras]

39. You really want these nutcases moving close to you?

I'd rather have them stay in Florida, where at least we can ponder their insanity from a distance.

[BlueIris]

50. I've started saying this on an average of once a week. n/t

[LizW]

14. Did you by any chance read the whole article?

This mother is obviously playing the situation for money. I don't think that deserves respect. She wouldn't come to the school to intervene in the situation when the school called her. The school had taken up the child's behavior with the mother, more than once. Her instructions were that no on at the school could touch her child.

The article also points out that the entire video is 28 minutes long, with the child out of control most of the time. But what is being shown on television is the child sitting in a chair (which she did when the police entered the room) then being handcuffed and starting to cry and wail.

This situation is not the child's fault. There is a real possibility that she is being abused. There is something very wrong about how this mother is working this situation. It is certainly wrong that the situation got to where the police even had to come, much less handcuff the child, but the mother bears partial responsibility for that.

[spooky3]

20. I agree--feel sorry for the child and for the school teachers and

administrators. The mother is absolutely at fault here and I am sure we do not know the whole story.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. The mother is the guilty party

She has had how many years now to get some help for her child? And when this little girl explodes at school, what does she do? Not only does she not bother to come to school when they called her, she then hires a lawyer and goes on TV for all the free publicity she can find.

Yes, I agree this child appears to be a victim of abuse. Now Mom is neglecting her child by not getting therapy for her.

A key point here for me is that Mom called the cops when this child was THREE to ask for help making her mind. So for at least TWO YEARS she has known her child needs help. The school, on the other hand, has had her for no more than 6 or 7 months and they are expected to work miracles and teach her to mind, when her own mother could not?? And mom told the school not to touch her child. I would love to know how that came about. I have taught for 25 years and never once has a parent specifically requested that their child not be touched. NEVER. That is the strangest bit of information that has come out on this story yet.

[Carni]

74. Per the mainstream media.... and BTW did you hear?

They also say Bush won the election! TWICE! AND HE HAS A MANDATE!
AND there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq! (Just stop me if this is getting redundant)

The bottom line here is NO ONE knows what the situation truly was with that kid in that school except the kid, the school employees and the parent.

This lynching brigade against the mother IMO is bullshit--I don't know that she was a terrible mother (maybe she was? maybe she wasn't?) but you don't know either...

How do you know the asst principal or the teacher didn't have it out for this kid?

It does happen--just because someone is in the tecahing or school admin profession doesn't mean they are perfect human beings.

I am getting really sick of reading all these judgemental posts about this mother when no one here knows jack shit about her except for what FOX and Conservative News Network is pumping up our ass.

[LizW]

75. Back away from the thread

if it upsets you so much.

Your inflammatory use of the word lynching is uncalled for.

This mother, IMO, should have gone to the school or sent someone she trusted to get the child when the school called. Period. That is what a parent does.

[merh]

86. Let me ask you

Let's say mom killed or in some terribly accident and could not show up.

Does her absence or failure to respond justify the school's inability to deal with the child or law enforcement's use of handcuffs when the child was just sitting there at the table?

Bullshit on blaming mom. It was a break down in the system.

It is our society that is screwed up. Economy sucks so mom has to work, funding cuts, so no counselors on hand, et cetera.

The police should never have been called and when they were, they should never have used handcuffs on the FIVE (5) YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL!

[Carni]

90. No shit-- maybe *mom* was three months late on her house payment

And COULDN'T LEAVE work- maybe she didn't HAVE ANYONE that could pick up the child.

Gee there's a concept?

I love reading this shit from people who have all the answers and know every nuance of the personal business of strangers.

They must be Uncle Rico and then some

[merh]

91. It is just appalling to me that any one with a lick of sense, let alone

that claims to be a liberal or a progressive or even a moderate that values civil rights can find any justification in the handcuffing of a five (5) year old, little girl. :cry:

Don't touch a child means, don't spank her. It doesn't mean don't hold her if she is crying, don't calm her if she is frightened, don't mend her knee if she has fallen, don't help her blow her nose if it is running.

Simple human respect. Simple compassion.

Once we accept the violation of one person's civil rights, even if it this small child's civil rights, we accept the violation of our own civil rights.

:cry:

[eissa]

118. Well said!

Even if we assume that mom is not doing her job, how does handcuffing a 5-year old help the situation? From my perspective, although the child was behaving like a brat (as many that age do), her actions did not warrant a call to the police, let alone being handcuffed. Every school has (or should have) counselors or resource specialists on hand for these kinds of situations. If they don't, then a stink should be raised -- give education back the money they need to do their jobs properly and let the Pentagon start having bake sales to develop the next nuclear weapon.

[LizW]

109. Sorry to bump this thread up again, but

Do you realize that you are having to create a fantasy scenario in order to excuse the mother's behavior and make her a helpless victim?

If she were killed in an accident, you are correct, no one would be faulting her for not being there for her child. Duh.

But she wasn't killed. She didn't come to the school, she didn't send another responsible adult, and she restricted the school's options so they could not effectively deal with the child's behavior.

She may have a job she couldn't leave, but it doesn't seem to be preventing her from visiting lawyers and going on A Current Affair.

You're right, there was a breakdown in the system. The system is a partnership consisting of the parent, the school and law enforcement. The mother didn't do her part and she kept the school from being able to effectively do theirs. That left the police to do what they could.

I am surprised that people don't seem to know how much interaction there is between law enforcement and schools nowdays. My son's middle school has an officer on campus all day, every day. There is at least one in every school in our district. They have offices in the school buildings. They interact with the children every day.

Having police deal with a student who has gone beyond the bounds of what teachers and administrators can deal with is very, very common, from elementary school on up. I can't believe you think the police should not have been called in this case.

As for the handcuffs, I agree it is an extreme measure. But if you listen to what is being said on the tape, it is clear that this is not the first time police have had to deal with this child. This was an escalating situation, and she had been warned before that handcuffs would be used if she continued to act out. I know you are concerned about the psychic trauma inflicted on the child by having her hands restrained. The fact that she resorts to hitting, kicking, biting, climbing on furniture and destroying property tells me this restraint is mild compared to the corporal punishment she has probably suffered previously.

[merh]

111. No, it is focusing the light on the simple fact

THE CHILD IS THE VICTIM

Victim of the school and the police.

You know nothing about the mother, not really. You have no clue if this mother has been trying to get the care for the child or not, you just don't know.

The mother is not part of the picture, literally, the school administrators and their inability to handle the situtation and those big, bad police that had to cuff the child.

But go ahead and enjoy your judgment of another without all of the facts.

[LizW]

129. "...enjoy your judgment of another without all of the facts."

Whoa. Irony alert.

Okay. Whatever. You're the school administrator. What would you have done?

And no resorting to fantasy, now. Don't pretend that you would have talked sweetly to the child and she would have magically calmed down.

How would you have gotten her off that table? Don't touch her!

How would you have kept her from biting you?

How would you have kept her from kicking you?

What would you have said when she ripped things off the walls of your office?

Remember, she's been going for an hour now and it's another hour before the mom can get there, so you've got another hour with her.

Don't forget to let us know what you'll do about the rest of your workload and any other children who need your attention this afternoon.

[merh]

132. Have done it with children her size and with adults suffering

schizophrenic episode. It is a matter of tone, body language and attitude. Definitely not fear. An calm attitude which projects safety and not fear. It takes patience and not be so aggravated or pissed that you can't see straight.

You want the details - I will be happy to share them, but maybe you should seek some training some where and learn a little compassion and the simple fact that you should treat others, including children, the way you would want to be treated if you were in that "state of mind".

Don't pull the games on me, I have handled similar situations and diffused them without violence or touching, when deputies/cops/jailers were terrified and wanted to beat the shit out of the person. It can be done.

[LizW]

135. Never mind

I was seriously asking what solution you would find to the situation the school administrator was faced with. But really, never mind. I can't stand the irony.

[merh]

137. What irony?

That others can find solutions that escaped this school or that there are times admitting an incident was poorly handled does not harm the great institutes -- the "school" or "social services" -- but helps them, for it is in recognizing mistakes that we learn from them and improve.

What would I have done, I definitely would have sent the other children outside for a nature walk, let them take advantage of new surroundings, while I dealt with the situation. I would have allowed the child to "tear up" the classroom as much as a 5 year old can, I would have allowed her to tire herself out, get out her frustrations, then I would have spoken to her in a calm, reassuring voice. I would have let her know that she could trust me and should not be afraid of me. I would have told her that what she did was wrong and not allowed. I would have worked with her, not pinned her up and not allowed everybody and their brother watching, giggling, videotaping and ridiculing her to be observers. There are one hundred and one ways to deal with the situtation that do not include violence, restraint or handcuffs.

It became that little 5 year old child against the world, her whole world, she was a frightened and trapped individual, she lashed out in defense. Some people don't think the same as you and I, their minds don't work the same way. The mumbling, the talking the eyes could have been like nails on a chaulk board to that child, her sensory perception could have been so different from yours that the cursory activity was keeping her stirred up and disruptive.

No irony in any of my posts that I can find, if you care to point them out I will be happy to discuss them with you.

[Carni]

121. The corporal punishment she has previously suffered?

Now you're a mind reader?

We have gone from just blaming the mother to the mother beats the kid...how nice.

You have no way of knowing the entire history of this case by watching one video clip.

[Pithlet]

141. Nothing justifies cuffing a 5 year old.

You are also doing a lot of supposition. You just assume that she should have been able to leave her job right then and there. That she had a network of people available to help her. But, it is all irrelevant, because even if she could have, that child should not have been cuffed.

[Carni]

88. "Back away from the thread"

Why because I don't happen to agree?

"lynching" is inflammatory?

It's just a term for being set up, maligned and convicted with sentence without being tried.

Forgive me for not consulting the language police before I posted.

[MADem]

21. This was not the first time this had happened

Keep these facts in mind.

The mother told the school not to touch her kid for any reason. The race card does not fly, the principal is black, the faculty is mixed, and the student body is half black.

The child had behaved in similar fashion in school previous to this incident.

The mother called the cops on the kid when she was THREE--same reason, unruly behavior.

The cop who handcuffed the child had responded to at least one previous incident--as he approached her, he said, "Remember me? I'm the one your mother said to put handcuffs on you."

The mother fired the lawyer for releasing the tape, because she had made a separate, exclusive deal with A CURRENT AFFAIR for a substantial sum so that they would have full rights to the tape (not her tape, BTW, but don't let THAT bother her!).

The news media is not showing the whole tape. In its entirety, it shows a kid with serious mental issues who does not belong in a mainstreamed environment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. AMEN

This mother is a horrible parent, IMO. Instead of making deals with A Current Affair and hiring lawyers, she should be getting some help for her child.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

130. Wow... a mother calling the cops on her 3 year old child....

that's crazy! My son is 2.5, and I couldn't imagine ever calling the cops on him, especially at his age. That's an absolutely ridiculous idea. It sounds like this woman doesn't know how to handle her kid.

[conservdem]

60. Curious, how much of the tape did you watch?

[progressivebydesign]

67. The school TRIED to take it up with the mother...

Did you miss the part when they called her and she wouldn't come? Or the trashing of the room for over an hour? Or perhaps when the mother called the police herself on her child?

It's not the school's problem, or a police problem.. it's a parent problem.

[roughandtumble]

5. Good Bye Jebba! Hello Alabama!

Go Bamma', Go Bamma', Go Bamma GO!!
Dont let your nasty, ripped screen door hit your non-parenting ass on the way out.

[davidinalameda]

7. huh

wouldn't Alabama be worse than Florida?

[TahitiNut]

6. Maybe I'm dense. I can't find anyone in the 'right' in this story.

Sometimes, there are no 'heroes.' :shrug:

[bpilgrim]

11. sign of the times

what do you mean "Sometimes, there are no 'heroes.'" in this story :shrug:

peace

[lastliberalintexas]

63. Perhaps the child?

Did she act properly? Of course not. But she likely has issues which need to be addressed but have been ignored for far too long by her parents. While I guess I wouldn't say she's in the right, I would say she's the one being wronged, most especially by her parents.

As well as the school by the parents, but that's another thread.

[TahitiNut]

87. It seems to me that all the participants have "issues".

Clearly, the 5-year-old has some socialization and behavior 'issues.' (While it's reading a LOT into the story, the kid MIGHT be trying ineptly to get her mother's attention - i.e. get her to show up.) Clearly as well, the school adults have 'issues' - some of which are the plethora of 'guidance' and 'directives' they get. (Funny - who the hell separates the CYA guidelines from the 'best for the child' guidelines?) Further, the police clearly have 'issues' - CYA in so many, many ways.

Schools have become places for political feeding frenzies. It really started (again) in earnest about 20-25 years ago. (Historically, it's been tried, but never with as widespread an effect as today, imho.) So, we 'punish' them by cutting funds. The 'admiinstration' helps by raising non-teaching costs. And we expect it to get better? Ha!

(I don't think there was a person in that video who makes much more than $50K/year - which is effectively a starting salary for today's college grads, that can find a job with the degree they chose.)

[Malva Zebrina]

9. whatever the circumstances

this action is the most abominable thing I have read about. I don't care--handcuffing a skinny five year old because she could not be controlled in the classroom says much to me about the Florida system.

And says something about the teacher, which is not very complimentary.

I don't know what is going on in Florida, with it's abysmal record of it's treatment of foster children and it's sad and sorry educational record, but I do know I will never ever travel again to Florida or spend another penny there . It stinks there.

[MichiganVote]

12. Any teacher with a disruptive child who can't or won't calm down

is in the right to send them out of class. School personnel werenot responsible for the handcuffing. That was the choice of the police.

[Malva Zebrina]

17. Who called the police?

If not the school personnel? Calling the police because a skinny little kid was out of control is to be accepted now as the norm. The kid was five years old for crying out loud. This was not a strapping six foot tall teenager' this was a little skinny kid and imo the teacher was incompetant, unprofessional, and hysterical.

This little kid was forced to be HANDCUFFED for crying out loud. A FIVE YEAR OLD LITTLE SKINNY KID!

Where on earth are these people who call themselve teachers coming from?

[mondo joe]

18. Their hands were tied by the mother, who HERSELF had called the

police when her daughter was out of control.

She forbade the school staff to touch her child, thereby disallowing any more gentle restraint.

[Malva Zebrina]

28. and when the police got there the skinny little five year old was "calm"

This says nothing good about the school. They are scapegoating the parent and I don't blame the parent for stating that they are to keep their hands off this skinny little child.

Since when is calling the police an acceptable parameter to conrol a five year old skinny little kid? You think it is?

The police are paid to maintain law and order.
This child was breaking NO law and is NOT a criminal. Certainly the use of handcuffs are to stabilize a potential criminal's ability to resist or harm the police.

This child was NOT breaking any laws and is a mere kid out of control.

When we must resort to the police, who exist to maintain law and order, to control a classroom supposedly staffed by professionals supposedly trained to react in a professional manner, I think that is the most pathetic statement to be made about this case.

Police maintain law and order with adults who are breaking the law. A child of five, vulerable , weak, and for some reason, out of control, is NOT on the same level as a criminal.

This is a sad defense to use in order to defend this teacher and the school.

It becomes a parameter of the use of law enforcement, when the professionalism of the adults in charge is lacking.

This was handled badly by the school and by the teacher.

[mondo joe]

32. Yes - she calmed down when they showed up. And they needed

to decide what to to keep her that way.

I don't think calling the police is typically called for, but this was not a typical case. This was a disturbed child who posed a danger to herself and others that the school staff COULD NOT RESTRAIN in any fashion because they mother forbade it.

Yes - the police are there to maintain law and order. ORDER. This child posed a threat to the safety of herself and others.

It's unfortunate that the mother created a situation in which this could not have been handled in a more typical fashion.

[Malva Zebrina]

52. What typical fashion?

Blaming the mother --is that the typical fashion? No, blaming the mother for the handcuffing of this little kid, is not acceptable.

The kid was there--and calm when the police arrived. How was that accomplished? If the kid was a danger to herself, that could have and should have been handled by the "professional" teacher who, it has been said, was afraid that a little five year old child would harm her--a person three times the size of the child. That is laughable.

There is no evidence the child was a danger to herself and if she were, surely the trained "professional" teacher could have taken means to prevent that harm and would have been within her rights to do so.

This was handled badly, with the child the ultimate victim,and the mother also, given that she was in the company of trained professionals who were the overseerers and in charge of the welfare of the child, no matter if that child was out of control.

[mondo joe]

97. Her throwing things around the room made her a danger to others

to say nothing of a distraction. And the trained professionals couldn't stop her because they couldn''t restrain her gently, they couldn't carry her to another room - they had few options.

How sad that you blame teachers who have few enough options without having them further limited by a lawsuit happy mother with poor parenting skills.

[elehhhhna]

112. Right-o. You nailed it , imho.

[barb162]

89. NOT breaking any laws?

Trying to or actually hitting other persons is assault or battery as the case may be. This child evidently has zero respect for authority and adults. I wonder where she picked that up.

Destroying property of others and vandalism are also crimes.

A child with fists flying, please, is not weak and vulnerable. Someone could have gotten hurt. A child with a fist flying into your eye, trying to strike as hard as she can, can definitely do damage.

[MichiganVote]

26. Ok. Don't call the police. Just let kids go wild when they are

tearing a school apart, the parent won't allow the school to touch the kid, the parent refuses to come or send someone else and then cry like a baby when your kids don't learn. Sure, makes sense, for an idiot.

[Malva Zebrina]

54. Yes, call the police

the law enforcement agency to handcuff a little child of the age of lfive who has committed NO crime.

Yup--handcuff all the little five year olds who are breaking the law and need to be prosecuted.

That is the saddest apologist argument I have heard and it is wrong.

[danalytical]

29. Did any of you watch the video

I watched the little brat hitting the teachers and tearing up the classroom for about a half hour. And the child and the mother are the victims? How do you expect to win elections when we check our logic at the door and cry about every politically incorrect situation? That child DESERVED to be handcuffed. Sure its over the top for a 5 year old, but that child obviously has ZERO respect for anybody or anything. And until she learns about respect and appropriate behavior she is leading a path directly to prison. Its obvious she isn't learning much at home. But there is only so much teachers and society can do for people. You can't take a child away from parents simply because the child acts up in class, but you also can't take on the role of the parent if you are the teacher.

I just Fox news doesn't find any ole liberal crying about this poor child and put them on TV. Its just going to reinforce the crybaby liberal image on the men in this country.

[Malva Zebrina]

33. NO five year old child deserves to be under the control of law

enforcement when out of control.

NONE. It is a child. A five year old child that is NOT a criminal.

What is the matter with you people? You advocate law enforcement and handcuffing a child of the age of FIVE? Man, I have to say, you younger teachers are way out in space when you think it fine and dandy that a child=--a goddam child, can be handcuffed and led away by the police because of an emotional disruption that could not be handled by people supposedly trained to be professionals in the field.

This is an outrageous assault on children, who need to be helped and not handcuffed.

Why not just take them all, all those little skinny black five year olds who are disruptive in the classroom, and put them in prison? Perhaps Chuck colson would open a Christian prison mission to preach to these little children.

I cannot believe that ANYONE with any sense of the right thing to do, would advocate handcuffing a five year old skinny kid, placing her in the paddy wagon, as a proper and humane way to handle a situation that the teacher and the school was unable to handle, in spite of their supposed professional training. It is NOT humane.

Handcuff them all--all them little skinny kids--that oughta teach them and it appears that the professional teachers, supposedly trained to be professionals, will depend more on law enforcement, when no law is broken, than their own skills and professinalism

[mondo joe]

35. They do when they pose a threat to others and there are no other

legal or permitted means to stop them.

I don't know why you think a skinny kid can't pose any threat to others.

[Malva Zebrina]

44. Who? the teacher?

this was a little kid. The others could have been sent out of the room if the teacher thought they were in jeapardy. Surely the teacher could not have thought this little kid was a threat to her. How foolish. The teacher was supposed to be a trained professional. How could a teacher, three times bigger , have thought this little kid could have harmed her? That is foolish. This pairing up of the theacher and the little kid is a specious argument. The kid was not wielding a gun, or a knife, or a bomb--the kid was out of control for some reason.

this was handled badly by a hysterical teacher.

[mondo joe]

46. To other kids. She spent more than half an hour uin a disturbed

state, throwing things and trashing the room.

[Malva Zebrina]

57. and what did the teacher do to protect the other kids?

Send them out of the room when it happened? I would think that would be the first order of events that should have happened.

It is amazing that this skinny little kid wielded such enormous power over so called "professionals" three times her size, supposedly trained to handle such things. Come on.

Or maybe they are not that "professional" at all.

[MADem]

71. That is EXACTLY what the teacher did-- exactly

Which shows me you are skimming, not reading, and do not know all of the details of the case. The teacher called the AP, the AP took over the management of little Miss Tearitup and the teacher REMOVED the other 30 kids, whose lessons for the day had been ruined by their disruptive classmate, to the classroom across the hall, disrupting the lessons of those children as well.

This skinny little kid you are boohooing about wielded the EXACT same power over her own MOTHER--at the age of THREE. Mom called the cops, and had them cuff her at home, because she was, guess what, OUT OF CONTROL.

Why do you think the cop knew the kid? They'd been through the drill before.

Quite frankly, I think the mother is leaving the state ahead of social services involvement.

Some reading is helpful: http://www.nbc6.net/news/4416060/detail.html
Monday, the school district superintendent said it appeared staff and police were following procedure.

"We called our own police. Our own police couldn't get there, so we called the St. Petersburg police," Pinellas County Superintendent Dr. Clayton Wilcox said. "When the St. Pete Police came in, given their history with this young child, they simply acted as police officers do."

"In hindsight, there are probably a lot of things that we could have done, but I'm pleased generally with the way our people handled it," he said. "She was over a table and screaming and it was horrible, but the fact is, there is other video out there on some of the Web sites that clearly shows that we spent over an hour trying to de-escalate that behavior."
*****************
Pinellas County records show that a St. Petersburg apartment complex where she lived moved to evict her on March 31, about two weeks after the handcuffing that put her daughter's face on TV screens across he world....

John Trevena, who had been serving as the attorney for Akins, said he learned from an executive producer at A Current Affair that the girl and her mother traveled to New York City over the weekend, where they stayed at the show's expense....The show blamed Trevena's release of the video to major media outlets last week, including the St. Petersburg Times . The lawyer said a producer from the show "raged" at him last Friday, saying the release of the video violated an exclusive agreement between Akins and A Current Affair.
Trevena said he had been unaware of any agreement.

The show made no mention of its part in the media frenzy that has followed the video....
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/26/State/Mom_moving_girl_in_vi.shtml
**************
Apparently, the mother doesn't have a problem with small children up on tables:
As she spoke, her three children rambled through the apartment.The girl, the oldest child, rode a pink bicycle through the living room, one of the training wheels missing. Her brother got up on a table and swatted a light fixture, laughing....
None of the four officers who showed up at the scene on Monday have been disciplined, police spokesman Bill Proffitt said.

He acknowledged the unusual nature of the arrest, but said: "Our policy very clearly gives officers the discretion to use handcuffs or other restraining devices for juveniles, regardless of their age if they are unruly or showing the propensity for violence." An officer used handcuffs on the girl's ankles because she was kicking him in the car, he said.

"Is it safer to put them in handcuffs and seat belt them in the back seat of a cruiser with an officer watching? Or is it better to physically struggle with the child?"
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/18/Tampabay/In_schools__violence_.shtml

[mondo joe]

99. Thank you MADem for the infusion of facts into the hysteria

around this story.

[MADem]

103. You're welcome

I know there are a lot of shitty teachers in the world. I know there are racist assholes out there, too. But I have to say, I did not see any of that in this case. The school principal is black, half the faculty and student body are black, and this just seems to me like a mother who may be dealing with a difficult child or may not have the "I'm the mommy, and you are not" thing down.

The fact that she lets her kid ride a bike in the house, and lets her younger one jump up on tables and swat at light fixtures does not make me inclined to rush to her defense, frankly. I woulda had my butt whipped if I tried that sort of behavior, but I never would have even THOUGHT of doing that sort of thing...ever!

[elehhhhna]

115. Where's Daddy in this story? Not a peep. Mama had this child

when she was 17. She called the cops on the kid when said child was 3--making Mom 20 at the time.

Kids raising kids. Bad policy. Thank God she's not gay though.

[MADem]

117. Yeah, that would totally destroy the family values

...of people who never even met her! /snark!

[liberalitch]

119. Sssshhhhh, we are not supposed to discuss the REALITY...

of this situation.

Apparently this woman is a running a zoo.....

[elehhhhna]

114. Think that through. Let's send 20 kindergardeners out to the hall,

unsupervised, so little missy can throw shit around and smack her teacher? Not.

[danalytical]

144. Yup you didn't watch the video, just like I thought

The other kids WERE sent out of the room. The teacher DID try to calm the child down. The child was brought from the classroom where she tore the place up, she was brought to the principles office, where she tore the place up and started hitting the teacher. The teacher did a wonderful job of remaining calm and trying to prevent the child from doing more damage.
The child knew exactly what she was doing, and knew she wouldn't get in trouble at home for it. So she acts like an out of control animal. Introduce some scarey men in blue uniforms and she cries and wails. Woe is me. Poor little brat. Its all the teachers fault. They should have played "circle of friends" with her and gave her a cookie.

[GoldenOldie]

45. Who sets the rules?

Each year the school district establish's rules that teachers and administrators can use to maintain control over unmanageable/ruly students. Each year when teachers attempt to use the administrative established rules, they find the administration has failed to support them and in truth the teacher look like fools to their students who have been already informed what the rules for the school year will be.


Teachers depending on grade level may have to work with 20-150 students on a daly basis. Far to many of the students arrive at school with some very serious family issues: parents fighting, abuse, lack of meals, parents unavailable, parents/guardians with attitudes that the world is to live by their needs/requirements....and this is passed on to their children, who in turn bring all of this into the classroom.

Far to many parents/guardians are unable to rear and cope with one obedient/respectful child yet they eager to fight a teacher who is attempting to work with 20-150 students a day and give the child the guideance that should be done within the home.

Teachers are expected to be loving parent, educator, friend. Teachers are confidents, counselors, and observors/protectors.
For teachers that carry this heavy load and then in turn are abused and attacked by the uniformed citizens are why many excellent teachers leave the profession.

Having seen a clip from the Mother's interview while her child sat beside her gave me a feeling that this Mother was teaching her child how to play the system. May not be true, but the more that is revealed the more compassion I have for the teachers.

[mondo joe]

100. I think you figured out the mother to a T. eom

[Xithras]

41. You don't get it.

1. Most elementary schools don't have psychologists or counselors on staff.

2. Elementary teachers ARE NOT trained to counsel students or perform behavioral interventions. They are trained to eject persistently and defiantly unruly children from their classrooms to prevent them from disrupting the learning environment of the other children.

3. In loco parentis is revocable at any time. If a school cannot get your child to act in a controllable manner, they have the right to surrender custody to another legal authority. Their options are legally limited to parents, guardians, the police, or CPS. In this case, the parent wasn't willing to pick the kid up right away, so they were limited to the police or CPS.

[Malva Zebrina]

48. Oh well good

then let's just hand over all the problems to the police when teachers have no training or no expertise to handle it.

the law enforcement agency that will control ( and terrify and punish) little five year old kids even though they have not committed a crime, in any sense of the word.


That is what it has come to , at least at is seems in Florida. And NO effort at all on the part of the so called "professionals" to handle it? A little five year old kid, for crying out loud, and these professionals could not handle it and had to rely upon the goddam police to contain this little kid? It does not compute, no matter how much you try to justify it.

The kid was five years old and was handcuffed! Does that seem OK to you? If so, then I must say that we have reached a turning point in education and all those aspiring teachers must be taught that handcuffing a little five year old kid, is perfectly fine and dandy.

It is ridiculous, and I think you know it.

[Xithras]

53. I disagree with the police, not the teachers.

I never said that handcuffing was acceptable, just that elementary teachers aren't trained to handle kids with major behavioral problems.

As I said in the other thread on this subject, my wifes school actually converted an oversized closet into a padded room. When kids got out of control like this girl did, they simply locked the kids in the padded room until their parents arrived (the room had light and ventilation, the kids were under video surveillance, etc). Most elementary schools should really have something similar, it would prevent incidents like the one we saw in the video by allowing the schools to detain the kids in a safe environment without risking injury to the child or themselves. According to my wife, many kids calmed down on their own after 10 or 15 minutes alone in the room, and were later allowed to return to class.

[Malva Zebrina]

61. Well if they are not, they they should be

and it should become a part of that "professional" training that goes with the earning of a degree and a certificate.



The identification of disorders in children and the handling of such needs to be stressed---not to call the police to handcuff a little child to do the job.

It is wrong and is not the most humane approach. It is, in fact, unprofessional, as if that matters any more when one can get law enforcement to handcuff the little bastards that disrupt.

[Xithras]

66. No, they shouldn't be

If you have 15-25 kids in a classroom, there simply isn't enough time for a teacher to play counselor, disciplinarian, AND teacher. Every minute a teacher wastes on one defiantly misbehaving kid is a minute that the rest of the class has failed to spend learning. And that's what schools are for, first and foremost...learning. If a student will not behave and disrupts a classroom, then the teacher has an obligation to the other 20+ kids who ARE behaving to eject the misbehaver and get on with the lesson.

Besides, it takes YEARS of training for someone to become competent in handling special needs children. If a kid needs that kind of attention, they should be in Special Ed classrooms where the teachers ARE trained to deal with behavioral and psychological disorders, not in general ed classrooms where a teachers primary focus should be on educating the class as a group.

[progressivebydesign]

68. You've obviously never worked with troubled children, have you?

I worked at a very nice home for kids that included kids with severe anger issues, and criminal pasts... some had been abused, other's neglected, others abandoned. Let me tell you.. until you've seen a 10 year old steal a Suburban and race it down a crowded street.. you can't really decide what kids should be handled by law enforcement. I witnessed the violent tantrums of kids as young as 5, it took several adults to restrain them in a safe room. This was not a tantrum by the child.. this is an ongoing problem. The mother had called the police on her in the past.... does that tell you something?

[barb162]

77. I find it astounding that you are trying to lump this kid's behavior

with unruly spells that all kids have. Most kids do not hit teachers, break things in classrooms, defy authority, etc., even once through their entire educations. The fact this kid is doing this at her age shows how incredibly fucked up she is; that kid needed intensive therapy along with her family. She didn't get this way by herself.

[barb162]

79. Mom evidently advocates police use at age 3. Why do you

suppose Mom has a problem with police use at age 5?

[jwirr]

59. I beg to disagree! My sister taught special ed

classes in New York for about 14 youth ages 11-14 who had behavioral problems and no other teachers would handle them. They were all diagnosed with behavioral problems but in reality only 10% had any actual mental health issues. The rest were victims of either poor parenting or sexual abuse or both. She soon found out that parenting was exactly what was need in her classroom. Reality sucks!! doesn't it?

[Malva Zebrina]

64. Parenting?

well there you have it.

So, this little five year old girl needs to be handcuffed, terrified and placed in the paddy wagon, because, well because it is the fault of her parent(s) that she is not controlled in the classroom in this particular instance.

Is that the best way to avoid any problems in the future as she enters her teenage years?

[barb162]

80. She was terrified? I suspect not. I think she posssibly started

wailing because she knew when the cops came she couldn't disrupt anymore. This child seems to already have more experience with cops than I or most other people have had in their entire lives. This child is already an old hand at dealing with cops. Maybe we saw Big-Time crocodile tears and wailing that she turns on and off in a flash?
This kid needs some really good therapy.

[Mike Daniels]

110. Well, if the mom called the cops on the girl before

which has been established by media reports and the police, why are you so upset about the teachers doing the same thing?

The parent apparently is incapable of handling her own child so why should school professionals who have hundreds of kids under their care be expected to handle things differently than her mom did in one situation?

[RobinA]

133. A Child Who Behaves

like this girl did needed parenting five years ago. At her age she needs far more than parenting, possibly more than we know how to give her at this point. The prognosis on abused and neglected kids is not great.

[elehhhhna]

113. It's Florida! Sh's lucky they didn't taser her 40 lb. self

[jwirr]

51. I agree with you. It would seem to me that this child

was out of control but not in a dangerously violent form so why were the police called. Police are called when a LAW is broken so maybe they were going to arrest her for disturbing the peace? In good teacher's colleges they teach how to control students and most good teachers do not call the police. Why not just expel the child. I am betting mother had as much trouble controlling her as the school. She would soon be ready to cooperate with the administration. Also why has no one asked for health care screening for this child? While the
ADD diagnosis is overworked - there are still some children who really do need help for professionals.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. HER OWN MOTHER CALLED THE COPS

when she was THREE!!! But I guess that is okay, and when the school calls, it is a major problem?? :shrug:

I call myself a teacher and I am coming from a place called reality. This little girl is not the only out of control 5 year old in this country. She is not the only kid sent to school who has had such poor parenting that she cannot mind without throwing a major temper tantrum. And she won't be the last. The blame here belongs to the parent, not the school. And Mom's behavior since this incident further proves she isn't interested in parenting this child. She now has a lucrative contract with a TV show. Something tells me she isn't going to use that money to start a foundation to help troubled kids. I would be surprised if she even used it to get her kid some help.

[elehhhhna]

116. Odds are she gets a "crazy check" from the state each month

for the kids "therapy" already.

"Dale S. Brown of the Presidents Committee on Employment of People with Disabilities, writes, that LD and ADHD are "related but different disabilities," "both…neurological in nature." By neurological is meant something wrong with the brain. Will you have this said by school teachers, psychologists and psychiatrists about your son or daughter brought into the world miraculously "normal," and "normal" to this day. Believe me the perks, including the $430 Supplemental Security Income (SSI) "crazy check," a stipend for accepting their "label" are not worth it. This is the "mother" of all Faustian bargains.

Brown states, LDs may cause severe difficulty in reading, writing or mathematics. Never do "experts," like Brown, from the LD ADHD industry let pass from there lips the possibility that their problems in reading, writing and arithmetic might be caused by schools so terrible that no child in the US should be without an alternative. This possibility is never uttered because it is the same pathetic, unionized, monopoly—US education-- that has commissioned the invention of ADHD/LD. Their contract with the parents of the country is simple: allow us to call your child abnormal, and he and you get infinite perks, the monthly "crazy check."
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:o_-1IJFLnzkJ:www.adhdfraud.com/commentary/10-12-00-2.htm+crazy+check+disability+child&hl=en

[noiretextatique]

138. thank you...this is absurd

beyond absurd. as if all those adults had no option...except to handcuff a 5-year old. truly absurd.

[OzarkDem]

36. They did send her out of class

I'm not certain why defenders of the poor teaching skills involved here keep misrepresenting the facts.

Then they failed to utilize even the most basic guidelines to deal with the child. Letting the situation escalate the way they did was highly unprofessional.

[MADem]

84. Uh, no they did NOT do that--they sent the CLASS out, because the kid was

rampaging. It took a half hour to get her into the AP's office, and the disturbed child tore that up.

Look at the full tapes, it will take you almost an hour, if you have the patience. You are looking at edited clips, and speaking with erroneous authority based on incomplete information.

[Affinity]

16. Sorry, but I think the police were right.

The school administrators did everything within the law and limitations placed upon them by the girl's mother to control the situation.

The police handcuffed the girl as much to protect her as to protect themselves. Handcuffed she was much less likely to act out and or attempt to strike one of the officers. And before anyone discounts that idea, the tape shows that she made several swipes at teachers and staff who previously attempted to restrain her (and stop her from falling off a table.)

Even a 5 year old girl is capable of scratching or biting a police officer. Had that happened and the officer reacted instinctively, the child might have been hurt. And given the diseases and other potential for infection, police have to take extraordinary precautions to prevent detainees from biting or spitting on them.

I'm sorry this little girl had to be taken into custody, but if her own mother can't take the time to come to the school when there's a problem, don't get upset when the authorities have to take matters into their own hands. And don't be upset when they act to protect themselves when they do.

Finally, had this little girl been hurt, no doubt her mother would have been on the phone with an attorney within the hour. Taking any and all precautions to prevent physical injury to the child and those charged with supervising/transporting/detaining her was the smart thing to do.

[Animy44]

31. I agree wih you!

This mother had told the school that under NO circumstances were they to put their hand on her child, or else. In the lawsuit, she' blaming the VP in the picture saying she's hovering around her too much, making the child "CRAZY!!!" So, what do you do, can't touch, can't hover????
She sounds ridiculous. Latest update on Catherine Crier today was that the mom fired the lawyer, but she didn't tell him until after "Current Affair" called him! She said she sold her story and would get another lawyer,whenever!!! Cops, her old lawyer and the school don't know where she went and don't particularly care!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Very sensible post

and welcome to DU :hi:

[noiretextatique]

139. "strike one of the officers"

you're talking about a 5 year old child...this is ridiculous.

[Crazy8s]

22. As a near life long Floridian

I take umbridge with all of the 'hate Florida' commentary. I grew up in Florida, was educated in its schools and went to college here. There are various reasons for Florida's constant problems, an embedded Rebuglican governing body being foremost. Add to that the huge numbers of people moving in from elsewhere (both legally and illegally) on a daily basis and you see how problems can arise. I love Florida in spite of the many problems in its recent history.

As for this whole handcuffed kid thing, I agree with the statement that there are no good guys in this bunch, but I definitely see the school's dilemma. Over the years, teachers' hands have become tied as to dealing with disruptive students. In my day, unruly pupils were marched to the Principal's office to face (ye gods!) corporal punishment or detention there. Now kids run amuck in the class (seems every bratty child has a medical excuse such as ADD), and teachers have to try to educate the better behaved kids while the others gleefully act up. I know. I witnessed it when my daughter entered the system.

I'm not at all impressed with the mother, who is seeking her fortune and fifteen minutes of fame through her child's misbehavior and subsequent 'run in with the law'. This mother knew her child had problems at school(and at home--she'd even called in the police to deal with the girl) and instead of attempting to solve them, she became belligerent and warned the teachers not to touch the child. The child herself had absolutely not respect for the adults around her. I blame this on the mother. Some things you learn at home. I'm happy that she's leaving Florida. See ya!

[MADem]

24. I feel sorry for all of you normal folk in Florida, too

I have friends from, and living in, Florida, and they are nice people.

It's always the way though--a few bad apples in the bunch and your reputation is ruined, your honor stained. Hopefully, one day, you'll get your honor back.

If you could elect a Dem governor again, that would help! And maybe install Katherine Harris at a horror ride over at Universal!

[Crazy8s]

27. Until we fix the voting system

that's not likely. Unfortunately, Florida--and the entire country--are up sh*t creek with a broken paddle!

[margaritamama]

30. I agree

I couldn't agree with your statement more. Apparently this mother now has the time to be available for comments on TV. Where was she when her child needed her that day? Money always talks.

[OzarkDem]

37. True

the people of Florida aren't to blame for this, just their elected officials.

The mom should have taken the child out of school a long time ago and demanded the state provide her with access to one with more qualified staff. The ones at this school only want to show up for work, teach to the kids who fit their preconceived notions of how children learn and collect a paycheck.

[Crazy8s]

106. Don't attack teachers for this

The mom should have sought some counciling for herself and her family instead of dumping an out of control child on the school system and then warning them not to touch said child. Teachers are there to educate, not to perform as therapists to unruly, troubled children.

[barb162]

122. I think the teacher and asst. prin. performed admirably

I saw and/or read some reports by three university education PhDs and one pediatrician/child development specialist from UCLA and their review of the tapes were flattering to the teachers in handling of the child.

[Malva Zebrina]

38. I can understand that

as I would also defend the state that I live in, but not to the point of advocating or defending something that is obviously as tainted as this handcuffing of a five year old little kid and taking her away in the wagon in order to teach her, a little kid, and her mother, a lesson. That is not acceptable to me.

And further, the defense of this police action by those posting here, is outrageous, lacking in insight and barbaric, imo.

Having said that, I will still not travel to Florida and not spend a penny in that state.

[Crazy8s]

107. Fine

I really don't care if you come to Florida or not. But if you're gonna get bent out of shape about the handcuffs, start with mom, who had no qualms about the cops cuffing her kid when she was three. This child's problems go way back, and it started with mommy dearest.

[UCLA Dem]

23. thats really awful. why would they handcuff a 5 year old?

[MADem]

72. Read the links at post 71, they might lead you to understand why n/t

[mondo joe]

34. Ah well. Florida's loss is Texas's gain!

Or some other state.

[6000eliot]

40. I don't blame her

I wouldn't want to stick around where I didn't feel my child was safe. And, BTW, there is no excuse in the world to justify putting a 5 year old in handcuffs.

[mondo joe]

43. The excuse: she poses a threat to herself and her peers.

That's the only excuse needed.

[Joey Liberal]

42. I hope they sue

To handcuff that kid was totally unnecessary. But, down south, no little black girl can get away with that sort of behavior. Had she been a little white girl, wearing a cross, the Christians would be outraged. Ann Coulter is an adult who acts like that on a daily basis, and she never gets handcuffed (except by her girlfriend).

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. My hope is that

the mother finally wakes up, realizes she has a deeply troubled child and all the free publicity and lucrative TV contracts in the world are NOT going to help this child learn to manage anger and frustration.

A lawsuit accomplishes nothing other than padding some lawyers' bank accounts. This child could be 12 or 13 by the time any lawsuit is finally settled. And at the rate she is going, she could very well have a juvenile record by then. And how does that help this child?

[Joey Liberal]

65. I agree, the child is troubled, but.........

That kid should not have been handcuffed. The kid was clearly misbehaving, but it did not warrant the Police being called being handcuffed. Those teachers should have backed off, let the kid blow off some steam, called the parent(s), and if that didn't work, then call the police. If a Police Officer can't handle a little girl like that without handcuffs, then that Police Officer is in the wrong line of work. The child does need help, no doubt about it. But that does not excuse the teachers and Police Officers for their actions. Let me explain a little further about why the Police were wrong to use handcuffs. Most people that have worked in law enforcement, security or corrections, even those people that have worked as bouncers in a nightclub, are trained to use certain techniques to walk an unruly adult away from the situation. If those Police Officers couldn't use a little wrist lock or arm lock to walk that little girl out of that class room, then they are unfit for duty, and a lawsuit is certainly warranted in this situation. I honestly feel that if she had been a little white girl, this would not be an issue, because it would not have happened. And yes, I'm white too.

[spooky3]

76. Please read the posts that provide more info contrary to what

you are assuming, such as that the mother WAS called and refused to come over to address the problem.

Let's not judge teachers and authorities without having all the information.

[chookie]

105. Uh, really?

"Those teachers should have backed off, let the kid blow off some steam," -- The child was wrecking the AP's office. The AP was "hovering" to give the child fewer opportunities to destroy the property in her office. Are you suggesting the child should have been allowed to blow off steam by not being controlled as to how much property damage she could inflict in her rage?

" and if that didn't work, then call the police." Uh, that's what they did.

"If a Police Officer can't handle a little girl like that without handcuffs, then that Police Officer is in the wrong line of work. " Police officer are not social workers; they are law enforcement officers and keepers of the peace. Police HATE calls like this, because they are so ambiguous, and the police KNOW they will get the shit end of the stick no matter what they do in these situations. Don't blame the cops....

" If those Police Officers couldn't use a little wrist lock or arm lock to walk that little girl out of that class room," Seriously -- a cop using a wrist lock or arm lock on a five year old is LESS traumatic than handcuffing them? I mean, seriously?

"I honestly feel that if she had been a little white girl, this would not be an issue, because it would not have happened. And yes, I'm white too. " You speak as though you know a lot about life in the South. Do you, really? So you're telling me that up north, this would never have happened -- that this is just a Florida/Black thing? I actually know a little white boy (6 yo) in a NE city who, after a history very similar to this little girl, was handcuffed after a similar incident in his school. But I have to agree that you are correct -- if it had been a "little white girl with a cross around her neck", there would have been a stink made -- yes, by ACTIVIST CHRISTIANS, and for all the wrong reasons, just like this situation is being used as an example of racial prejudice "so typical" of JUST the South.

[barb162]

124. I think the race issue became utterly flawed once it was learned

the mother called the cops on her own kid. I believed it was flawed at the start, as I was looking at it simply as a case of a very sick child. I think this is the first time in my life I have ever heard of a parent calling the cops on a THREE YEAR OLD. I don't blame the police or teachersas the police are there for maintaining order and the teachers are there to teach. The child was there to learn but is apparently severely lacking the conduct skills of other 5 year olds.

[progressivebydesign]

69. Will money make the girl mind?

Or will it make the Mom rich. There are deeper problems going on in that girl's life. Mom had already called the cops on her before. The school was forbidden, by the mother, to touch the girl. What the hell were they supposed to do??? Honestly?

[MADem]

73. Gee, the principal of the school happens to be BLACK

I guess she got the job because, why? Because she didn't EARN it? Because she didn't know how to run her school? And I guess the teacher and the AP were just mean old racists, defying the woman who writes their evaluations, upon whom they are dependent for their jobs and paychecks....

PLEASE. That dog will not hunt. Joey Liberal needs to be Joey Research The Facts....because condemning people without knowing the full story is not liberal at all.

[QC]

78. Great smackdown! n/t

[MADem]

82. I'm just one of those multicultural, reality based folk!!!!

A danger to no one, a friend of the truth!

[countryjake]

140. To the contrary, "running dogs" do hunt & use racism & everything else...

at their disposal, to maintain control. Just because that principal is Black does NOT prove the school doesn't employ racists & may have serious problems with its administrators using class-biased actions against families who are overwhelmingly poor, minority, & single-parents.

The little boy who ran from the same school, only a month after the incident with the handcuffing, & was seriously injured in the street, certainly does make one wish to learn more of the "facts" about the policies of this school & should definitely shine more of a spotlight on the administration of this particular school system.

What would be the point of highlighting facts such as the mother's hiring of a lawyer; selling her story to the media; whether or not her daughter bears the same name as she; her age & marital status, or how many children she has & any circus atmosphere existing in her apartment (ie. pink bicycle riding INSIDE or swinging from the light fixtures & balancing on tables) in referring to an instance of law enforcement handcuffing a five year old child in her principal's office?

Baiting & condemning this child's mother for her rank in society, in defense of those who are charged with her daughter's care, reeks of bullshit, to me, & is also far from liberal thinking.

[Egalitariat]

83. They will. And the taxpayers of Pinellas County will

fund a couple of years worth of lavish lifestyle for the mother.

[barb162]

93. If she has the guts to sue and shrinks are brought in to examine

that child, as they will be, that mother's lawyer may tell her to withdraw the case unless she wants to make a real fool out of herself. None of us really know what is wrong with this child, but I think a lot of people will agree there has to be something very seriously wrong when the mom calls the cops on her kid at age 3. If this child hasn't been treated, the mother is going to look incredibly foolish and I think will lose the case.

[progressivebydesign]

70. Does anyone really believe that a violent 5 year old is safe around a gun?

I mean.. it's a no brainer for the police. You are called to the school for a violent incident, a child so out of control that she trashes rooms and tries to hit adults. YOu think you'd want to be the cop standing near here when she goes off again? Knowing that a 5 year old can't grasp that a gun can kill people? First thing you do as a cop is to make sure your gun is out of reach to people with violent leanings. The mom has had the girl handcuffed before... Glad she's getting rich so the child can get the help she needs. /sarcasm off. Glad to hear that life is just one big fucking game show, where you can win big if your story is caught on tape, especially when the salicious video is played over and over again without backround info.. (i.e. mom called the cops on this child before, for the same behavior).

[Bozita]

81. toon that seems to fit the occasion ...

[bpilgrim]

92. where is she supposed to send her girl?

while shes at work :shrug:

handcuffed in the basement?

educators and police that think this is the way to deal with 5 yo are seriously lacking in imagination to say the least.

peace

[chookie]

96. What would *you* have done differently?

I'm not challenging you -- I really am asking this question straight: what would YOU have done that could have changed the outcome in this situation?

I have watched the video a few times, and thought the persons involved performed pretty well given the circumstances. A lot of people are highly critical of how they behaved, but I have not heard critiques that offer specific alternative ways of handling the situation. I'd love to hear what the "magic bullet" would have been that would have changed the outcome.

It's painful to see cops handcuff a kid, but, gee, would controlling her by holding her arm have been any less traumatic than handcuffs? What should they have done differently?

What could the AP have done differently that would have changed the outcome?

It's also noteworthy that nothing got through to the child until she saw the uniforms of the cops -- at which time her attitude changed, and yes, she was intimidated, and then frightened. What that tells me is that this kid has been socialized that she can get away with doing anything she wants to do to ANYONE, with one exception -- the police. That doesn't bode well. The fact that the kid was a known entity to cops is disturbing; Mom seems to have always allowed the situation to spiral out of control until it would verge on a law enforcement intervention -- and that is intrinsically more abusive to the child than a cop handcuffing her.....

BPilgrim -- I think you raised a point about Mom -- really, what the heck is she supposed to do if she has to work? I knew a woman who lost her job because she was constantly being called to her boy's school for behavior like this, and yes, the cops had to be called on at least one occasion. (It bothered the hell out of me that she had been treated this way, particularly because the college department she worked for was strongly feminist and NO ONE stood up for her but me.) This, however, does not excuse her from her very important responsibility to raise her children properly. It seems it's as hard to get through to Mom as it is to get through to the little girl -- nothing gets her attention until it is totally out of control. While I pity any poor person who has to hunt down psychological treatment for their kids, and know it isn't easy -- still, Mom seems to have effectively disengaged herself from the situation because she did not have a clue about how to handle it. What the heck it is going to take to wake this woman up to what is going on -- I don't know....

[bpilgrim]

101. when she was sitting calmly in the chair i would have continued the chat

to start and i probably would have brought her to the gym instead of an office for her to release her frustration.

i also would have reached out to her instead of being stand-offish and hovering her every move waiting to swoop in and forcibly and physically stop her 'inappropriate' behavior.

these are off the top of my head and i am not an educator but i am sure i would have even more effective strategies if it was my profession but to chain a 5 yo who was sitting in a chair and complying is barbaric, IMHO.

and teachers are responsible for the whole human being in their charge warts and all especially when so many of our children are special needs including those from poor single parent families. it is a cop-out to blame it ALL on the parent. our whole society has a role in raising our children or why even have public schools? it is unrealistic IMO to just blame the parents and think our responsibility ends. we need to realize we are all in this together.

hand cuffing 5 yo for throwing things on the floor (having a tantrum) is unacceptable especially when she was COMPLYING when they did it. what MSG does that send to the child, even if she complies she will be treated with indignity, terror and force.

if this child needs extra attention she should be given it and not chained but i suspect their isn't enough funding for that while we are bombing and killing thousands of other children half a world away :cry:

peace

[barb162]

128. Two things

Trying to slug teachers is not some little offense. That behavior has to be stopped fast (It never should have started). Where do you think she picked up that behavior?

Did you see the part where they were trying to get her to clean up the mess and the one teacher starts to help her clean up, trying to get cooperation and trying to encourage her in a positive fashion? Trying to redirect this child wasn't working; she got tired of cleaning up in a few seconds.

Okay a third thing: From birth till the time they are in school, parents are usually completely responsible for their kids 24 hours a day. I think it is a copout not to blame the primary caretakers, whoever they are. If they are in pre-school somewhere or at a relative's or whatever, then they have responsibility.

[RobinA]

134. I Haven't Criticized

anyone involved. However, one thing I would have done is backed off this kid. The school people were dogging her when she was on her rampages. I think that had they kept her away ONLY from things that could have been dangerous, i.e. glass, they might have been able to de-escalate. I might have sat down in a chair and just watched her rip that bulletin board down while calmly examining my nails. That kid got a lot of attention as she ran around, and she kept trying to one-up the teachers. Every time she tried to do something and the teacher tried to stop her, her determination to do the thing increased.

[mondo joe]

98. She ought to work WITH the school - not hamstring the

teachers.

[bpilgrim]

102. how did she 'hamstring the teachers'

by not letting them beat her child :shrug:

peace

[mondo joe]

104. By saying they can't touch her - thereby preventing them from carrying

her out of the room, or more gently restraining her.

I don't know where you got that anyone thinks the school should be permitted to beat the kid.

[bpilgrim]

108. they were carrying her and touching her in the office on the video

and usually telling someone not to touch my child means no CORPORAL punishment.

anyways... handcuffing 5 yo is nutts.

peace

[barb162]

95. LOL, it does fit.

[Rex]

94. Time for real life to become reality TV

She will get offers for the movie, book deals, soda drink, endorsements from everyone and a high powered lawyer to champion her rights all played out live on TV...weeknights on FOX!

[bloom]

120. I think the whole society is fucked up

when you have people defending the police and the way the teachers/principal handled this.

[UdoKier]

126. It's fucked up that a teacher can't touch a child.

I remember in 3rd grade being pulled out of the classroom by the ear, then my teacher grabbed my arms tight and got at my eye level and told me very assertively that I WOULD NOT disrupt her class. I had a time out and that if I was disruptive again, I would be going to the principal's office for a paddling. It seemed fair to me then and it seems fair to me now.

It is RIDICULOUS that the entire classroom had to be evacuated on account of this one very spoiled girl.

You could see as she was ransacking the room that this is a girl BEGGING for some limits and being given NONE. Locking her in a storage room for 10 minutes and ignoring her would be better, but instead, the teacher walks around telling her over and over and over again that what she is doing is unacceptable (but never providing any consequences of the behavior.)

I survived being paddled twice by the principal in elementary school, and I learned from it. I fully favor bringing it back. It's ridiculous that it was allowed to get to this point.

And I see nothing to indicate that this case had anything to do with race, just a girl who behaves horribly. Today, I'll make a point to tell my 7 year old's teacher that she has mu explicit permission to touch MY son whenever she sees fit. I do NOT want her to allow him to behave that way. I will even sign an affidavit to that effect.

This is one of the few areas in which I think mainstream liberals are wrong. Corporal punishment should be rare, should never injure the child, and only meted out for the worst offenses, but there is a place for it.


I haven't spanked either of my kids in years, but they know that if they did something exceptionally bad, that they would be spanked. They know there are real limits to what they will be allowed to get away with, and I think they feel more secure because of that knowledge.


Letting your kid run amok is NOT a way to show love.

[barb162]

131. Did you ever see the movie "Radio Days"

where the rabbi starts hitting the kid for stealing a few coins and then the parents say to the rabbi: you can't hit my kid, only I can hit my kid. Then all three start bashing the kid in the head.

That's how it was for me. If our parents found out we were disciplined at school, we got nailed again when we got home.

Listening to the mother for a short time 2 nights ago, there was a bizarre disconnect in her view of the video and situation. She apparently didn't see anything wrong with her kid trying to slug teachers, being violent, etc., but she saw everything wrong with the cops and teachers. One would think she would be embarassed as a parent that her kid was acting out this way.

[Pithlet]

142. hitting them doesn't show love, either.

It shows lack of self control. It shows that might makes right. Bullying is the way to get what you want.

Raising a kid without spanking can be harder. I won't deny that. But, it is worth it. I think raising a decent human being means teaching them that hitting another person is NEVER right. I was spanked, too. It is exactly why I'm against it.

[barb162]

143. hitting is not to show love; it is to show "don't do it again"

I am not wild about spanking myself and I would prefer things like timeouts, talking it through, etc.

[marshall]

127. School vs. Police

I think the school and the police have procedures that do not necessarily coincide. The school follows its procedure of hands off, coaxing the child to make proper choices, finally calling the mother begging her to come to the school. The police have a procedure they must follow when they have been summoned. Frankly I think the child should have been put in an empty room with maybe a couple of toys and a teacher's aide who sat in a chair in one corner of the room just to watch the child and make sure she didn't bash her head against a wall. Then they could wait until the mother decided to come to the school.
My mother is a judge and she is having to deal with the high school calling her when a student becomes unruly. What they used to do was just call the police and then drop the charges when the student was scared straight. My mother had to tell them that is not what the system is meant to do. If you call the police you are expected to cooperate and follow through with an arrest (assuming the allegations are warranted). You don't use the police to merely scare people.

[newportdadde]

123. Show me the money!!!!!

[slackmaster]

136. I'll bet they're taking her to Cuba

:wtf: