If You See A Shrine In A Chinese Restaurant, A Ganesa In An Indian

[KittyWampus]

restaurant, or even a mezuzah outside a Kosher deli...

would that stop you from doing business with that establishment?

Do such cross cultural displays offend?

On the front desk of my family's bed and breakfast (we've been here for 50 years) I put a moderate sized Ganesa and adorn him with marigold necklaces in the summer. I just got a beautiful mezuzah to post outside our front door. During Christmas, you can see our Christmas tree from the street through the dining room window.

Would that get your hackles up?

During the holidays, does it toast your cookie to see Christmas trees in shop windows or menorahs?

And then there's the political stickers.

Should Democrats just not do business at all with those who might vote GOP?

Should we all be segregated into our own camps and live in our own ghettos?

[Atman]

1. Yes.

Uh, I mean, no.

[readmoreoften]

51. A Christian Fish on A Business Means Right Wing in the US.

Seriously. Your argument is like saying a Swastika tattoo could just be solidarity with the Indian Good Luck symbol. I'll put it to you this way...if a swastika is on the forehead of Ganesh I'll assume it's an image from India and not racist. But if a swastika is on the arm of a skinhead, I'll go with Nazi.

Similarly. If a christian fish is on a business I'll assume it means RW/Republican/Anti-Gay. If the businses has a Christian fish and says We Welcome ALL people and also has a rainbow flag, I'll get the message that they're cool.

[Walt Starr]

2. I won't do business with somebody I know is a Republican

I also don't do business with somebody who displays the Fish symbol on their business's sign.

You can if you want, I choose another path.

[ThumperDumper]

17. I avoid places with

the fish symbol too. Especially when they put it in their Yellow Pages ads. To me it screams

"We're only interested in Christian customers."

So be it.

[Walt Starr]

20. Actually, to me it screams

"I'm a fucking hypocrite who knows whackjobs who are religious fanatics will do business just because of this fish."

[ThumperDumper]

31. In Colorado Springs

there's a tow truck company called "Spirit" towing that has bible verses scribed on their tow truck booms. They're the biggest bunch of pricks...

[candy]

19. Forgive my ignorance but what is the Fish symbol?

[northzax]

23. it is the symbol to tell people you are christian

early Christians could not use crosses as symbols, too obvious, and being a Christian was illegal, so they used the single line fish, (from the parable of the loaves and the fishes) to reveal themselves to other Christians.

It is a symbol of oppression, the oppression of Christians by the Romans, and, to me, it is used by people (in things like business advertisements) because they feel persecuted.

[minerva50]

36. We were taught the greek word for fish was similar to Jesus or Christ

and that one Christian in conversation with another might make an arc in the dirt with his foot, if the other was also a Christian he would make an arc from his side to form a fish.

[Walt Starr]

29. This

[candy]

32. Thanks! I don't think I've ever seen one.

[Walt Starr]

34. Ahhhh, they are all over cars

HAd a friend once who wanted to superglue hook's to the mouth part of the ones on cars.

[notadmblnd]

3. NO, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no and no

nt

[Cleita]

4. For the time being, yes.

They have drawn the line and dared us to cross it, so screw them. I never had a problem going into an establishment that might have Christian symbolism as decor, but now I am discerning. I will still go to a Mexican restaurant that has a Virgin of Guadalupe picture in it, but I've been shying away from stores with overly military, patriotic and Protestant type Christian stuff overtly displayed before anything else.

On edit: I guess I mean't no.

[Cash]

5. I conduct business based upon want/need, price and/or convenience.

Most Americans do. Who the owners/workers worship (or not worship) and/or how they vote (or not vote) is immaterial to me.

[Bridget Burke]

6. No, of course not.

Religious expression doesn't bother me. Let's hope I can get another Virgen de Guadalupe calendar from my favorite Mexican place this year!

But the fish gives me a pause when it's used in advertising.

[tubbacheez]

7. Easy answer.

1). Support those you agree with.

2). Explore those you don't understand.

3). Leave alone those you disagree with.





Personally, I spend so much time doing #1 and #2 that I hardly ever get a chance to consider #3.

[TahitiNut]

8. Well, since Ganesa is elephant-headed ...

:eyes: Can't you find a Hindu deity with a donkey's head?

[KittyWampus]

12. No, But There's A Character In Shakespeare's Midsummer's Night Dream

with the head of an ass :)

[CBGLuthier]

37. And his name is Bottom

Wonder what Will was trying to tell us with that name?

[mcar]

9. I like to see holiday decorations

in businesses; the holidays of different belief systems are wonderful, IMO. I think what people object to about the fish symbol in advertising and on signs (if that is what this thread refers to) is the implication that said fish business is somehow better, more honest and more honorable simply because the business owner is fundie (I refuse to say Christian because IMO they are not).

For example, some years ago our fundie neighbors (with whom we get along because we do not talk religion or politics) were considering adopting a child. The woman was talking to me about the process because we were considering adoption too. She said that they were evaluated by a social worker sent by the adoption agency, the standard procedure.

Then she said "It was a really good experience because the social worker was Christian." I wanted to say "So, if the social worker had been Jewish, it wouldn't have been a good experience? These are people doing their jobs for pete's sake. Their belief system is irrelevant." I didn't because the woman would not have gotten it.

That's the thing; they really think they are better because they are "christian." I don't agree. And I'm Christian.

[Lars39]

21. I think what people aren't realizing is that the fundies

are developing a "christian" business network, and are encouraging each other to only use those businesses.
I think the bigger aim is to totally bypass non-christian businesses.

[alfredo]

10. If I know they support turning our country into a theocracy

I will avoid their business.

[Book Lover]

11. If I came into your B&B

with three different religious miscellanies on display, I would be confused. And since I am areligious, yes, I would be offended. Then again, ain't no gun to my head to force me to do business with you...

[htuttle]

13. Point taken, but...

I have never had a Hindu, a Buddhist or a Jew tell me I had no right to live in this country. I am also unaware of any movement of Hindus, Buddhists or Jews to change the laws of this country to suit their religious preferences.

I don't care what people put in their windows. It's not the particular religious symbols in the windows that matter. It's the current political movement associated with particular religious symbols. I have rarely met a liberal/left-wing Christian that displays crosses and fishes all over the place (probably because they keep to Matthew 6:5).

You can't act as though the Christian faith as a whole has been unaffected by it's loudest right wing proponents, and anyone who has become turned off by those bullying loudmouths is somehow just unfair.

[KittyWampus]

16. Do People Have This Same Discussion In Israel & Muslim Countries?

about how the loudmouth troublemaking rabblerousers are giving other people who just want to get along a bad name?

[htuttle]

30. Good Question

I'd assume it has to do with who is in power in that country.

If a group without power in our society gets obnoxious, I could care less. They present no threat to me, my life, or my family.

But if a group that appears to exert a lot of control over all three branches of government in addition to the media gets pushy, it's presents a serious threat to me, my life, and my family.

For example, before the coup in Pakistan, I read discussions about the threat of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistani papers and media. After the coup, when Mussharrif empowered religious fundamentalists via ISI, not so much. In Afghanistan, RAWA continues to denouce religious fundamentalism, and continues to be hunted by fundamentalists.

And in Iraq, just read a bunch of the blogs. Those who wish for a more secular Iraq (as it used to be), get pretty steamed about the likes of Moqtada al Sadr, even if they are also against the US occupation (there's at least a 4-5 sided conflict in Iraq).

[indy_azcat]

14. my mechnaic can pray to whomever he wants

but I may have to start drawing the line if my pharmacist starts hanging crosses or menorahs or whatever.

[RetroLounge]

15. More Christian Victims

Poor freaking you...

RL

[Bridget Burke]

22. With a Ganesha & a Mezuzah along with the Christmas Tree?

Sounds pretty rich to me.

[SnowGoose]

18. I've never had a person with a ganesha

tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe the way they do.

I *have* had many christians tell me this - even people who I went to church (and church school) with for years and years. Now that I don't believe the world is 6,000 years old, I'm some kind of degenerate satan-worshipping, crack-smoking child molester.

When as a freshman, I went to my biology professor in (christian) college, and said "I'm having doubts, because what I'm learning in biology goes against what the church teaches... How do you reconcile those in your own mind?" you know what he said?

He said "are you on drugs". I shit you not. I question a 6,000 year earth, and Noah's ark, and instead of addressing my actual concerns, he comes back with what amounts to looking for a way to completely dismiss my questions.

If the church and school who did that was hindu, then I'd probably be reluctant to deal with avid hindus, but they didn't. A christian church and school did, so I'm reluctant to deal with them.

In my limited experience, devout christians are *almost never* really interested in a genuine exchange of ideas. You could argue with my reaction to it, but not the reality of what I've seen with my own two eyes.

'Goose

[mopaul]

24. i ain't takin' the bait

[rinsd]

25. But you want to ohh so badly.....

[i miss america]

54. well, then that leaves you off the hook

[ThumperDumper]

26. When I CAN...

I avoid the overt right-wing or overly-religious places. It's just a turn-off.
When they make it SO OBVIOUS as to create the impression that others are not welcome I won't do business with them.

However, I'm a liberal gun owner and there ARE NO liberal gun shops. So I go to the chain stores like Gart Bros, Galyans, Sportsman's Warehouse for things because it's generally frowned upon for employees of those places to blab about politics and religion and they also can't discriminate and only hire rightwingers like the smaller places do.

[Maddy McCall]

27. There is a difference in incidental displays as opposed to purposefully

having them in advertisements.

If I walk in to a Bed and Breakfast and the owners have a bible on the coffee table, I don't have a problem with that.

With advertisements, however, when someone puts a christian fish in their ad, its like they are using it to signal to other christians that they are "good guys." They are using their religion to recruit customers, and that's despicable.

[Maddy McCall]

33. Let me continue...

Do you put Christian fish or the equivalent in YOUR advertisements?

You're comparing apples to oranges.

[KittyWampus]

39. Maddy, We'd Have To Think About Intent Then. What's The Intent Of

the person putting whatever where ever.

I am not so comfortable assigning intent to people I've never met.

My rule is to give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt.

Unless they're coming at me with a clear intention of harming me.

But you made your point and it's well taken.

[BurtWorm]

44. A Christian fish-symbol in an ad signals that the business wants you

to think of it as Christian. Loud and clear. If they want Christians to patronize them, it's a good business decision. If they want everyone else to, it's probably not so intelligent a move.

[Az]

28. All religions are not the same

Each comes with their own particular foibles and issues. Various religions also dominate different societies. As a result the impact their symbols will have on others in the society will be different.

Comparing such things is tricky. A Chinese restaraunt or an Indian diner are selling the imagery of their culture as well as the food. As such their displays are not a promotion of their beliefs as much as deceration and theme.

But a Christian symbol in a Christian dominated society is not the same. Whether intended or not it may convey a sense of dominance or exclusion to those who are not part of its beliefs. Its not as if there is a Christian quisine being offered. The displays of Christian symbols can only convey the impact of the belief system. And due to social proximity of regular inundation of these symbols it may simply appear to be furtherence of indoctrination of such institutions rather than just deceration.

[seabeyond]

35. here ya cryinshame n/t

[Bluebear]

38. No Buddhist ever told me "America is a Buddhist nation, move to France!"

Just sayin'.

[BurtWorm]

40. If someone puts a religious symbol on a business advertisement

they're broadcasting that religion is central to their business. It would put me off of using that business, sub-consciously even. I would get the message from the business owner that they're in business for people of that religion.

For example, I don't eat at Glatt Kosher restaurants on the Upper West Side where I live, even though I'm not forbidden from eating in them, because (aside from the fact that the food probably isn't all that good in most of them) I feel they're not in business for people who don't keep kosher. I wouldn't use a halal butcher for the same reason.

This is different from going into a restaurant or other business and seeing a religious symbol on the wall. I take cabs occasionally in the Queens neighborhood where I work and almost every one has a religious symbol of some kind--a Mary or Jesus or a Koran scripture or Sikh symbol dangling from the mirror. That I take as background noise.

[Bridget Burke]

42. You might try the halal butcher.

An Indian (from India) Catholic I knew always patronized them. Of course, I'd rather not know what "non-Halal" butcher shops look like in India.

[KittyWampus]

43. FYI, Kosher Chickens Are So Much Better In Quality To Perdue It Isn't

even funny. If you eat meat, you might want to rethink visiting a Kosher butcher. :)

[mondo joe]

46. Or how about German restaurants with Swastikas?

Would anyone avoid those?

[tanyev]

41. I might avoid a Chinese, Indian, or Kosher

restaurant if I thought that for the last 25-30 years they had been contributing to or participating in a religious/political sub-group that was determined to seize control of my country.

[amazona]

45. you know the difference

The "Fish" people are not real Christians. They are the "whited sepulchres" Jesus warned us about. They are not just anti-Democrat, some may even be Democrats, but they are using Jesus to make sales, and that is completely against the Gospels and the word of Christ. Period.

The Chinese restaurant owner putting a goldfish aquarium in his restaurant to bring good "feng shui" is hardly in the same category.

I have to live around these people. I know the difference between a real Christian and between the huckster who sports the fish. If you do not, count yourself very fortunate. The hucker wants to cheat me of my money and my right to choose how to live my life. The Chinese restauranteer or Jewish deli owner is just trying to make a little friendly magic and bring some local color to their store. There's a big freakin' difference, and I think we're kidding ourselves if we pretend we don't know that.

Yes, some "fish" people are just stupid instead of evil. But I don't want stupid people providing me with a service when I have a choice of hiring someone with a brain. It is just common sense.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[enki23]

when the hindus and buddhists and taoists etc...

pose a real threat to my civil liberties, i'll consider it. yes.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

47. when I go to an establishment

with Ganesh's picture, I touch His trunk and say "Namaste" If I see a picture of Guru Nanuk, I say "Ekonkar sat nam sirwa a guru". If there are no pictures but Arbaic script, it's "As salaam alaikum".
If I saw symbols of Judaims, it would be "Shalom alachem"

I've found if one honors other's faith and culture, bridges are built.

[toddaa]

48. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image

Personally, I could care less. But it is interesting that the most vocal supporters of posting the Ten Commandments everywhere haven't actually bothered to read them.

[Solly Mack]

49. Cross cultural displays at a business (that rely on customers to survive)

imagine that...whodathunkit? Novel concept. Never in the annals of business endeavors as anyone ever pandered to the sensibilities of customers to get their dollars and keep them coming back.

Isn't that like Business 101: Of Prophets and Profits?



I don't assume a menorah means republican.
I don't assume a cross means republican.
I don't assume a fish means right wing fundie wacko.(though I do wonder about a fish in certain locales)

But once I know, it's my dollar and I'll spend it as I see fit.

Overbearing religious people , out to create a theocracy , who impose their beliefs on others by attempting to turn those beliefs into law, are the culprits here....don't go blaming others for fighting back.

If I were religious, I would be offended by are those who have corrupted my religion and who use it like a weapon against others. They are the ones doing other religious people harm.

[Anakin Skywalker]

50. Heck No! Religion Itself

does not offend me. It is when people of certain political persuasion inject their private views into the public arena and threaten my livelihood that is the problem. I would not boycott religious businesses, but I would boycott Rethuglican ones.

[spinbaby]

52. Depends...

I patronize a Christian business. It's run by Mennonites. They're deeply and obviously religious but don't flaunt it. Their religion doesn't offend me at all. In fact, it makes me feel better about them.

But there's a small consignment shop I pass on the way home that I'd stop at if it weren't for the large "Jesus Saves" and "God is Great" banners on the front of the store. These banners don't say to me that they're religious, they tell me that these people are ultra-conservative nutcakes.

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Apples and Oranges

Comparing ethnic food places with displays of possible religious significance is NOT the same as a hair salon with a fish! I would not be surprised to see a fish display for the local Christian bookstore, but when I see one for a grocery store, then I do not shop there. It is just one more way they are trying to create a theocracy! It almost seems like it is the opposite of the star of David that Jews were made to place on their businesses.