Whether or not Coulter is a "Man" is not the point.

[maddiejoan]

I don't care if Coulter is a "Man"
I don't care if Coulter is transsexual
I don't care if Coulter is intersexed
I don't care if Coulter is a "woman"

What I do care about is the constant use of questioning Coulter's gender, as a form of insult. Gender non-conformity it seems is the only insult left that a good number of liberals, progressives and democrats (who should know better) still feel is acceptable.

As a long time activist for leftist causes, and an out and proud preoperative transsexual, I am so severely disappointed that many do not understand how the use of transgenderism (to use the umbrella term) as a pejorative, an insult, or even a "ha ha" is to continue the unfair marginalization of the last remaining "safe to insult" minority.

Coulter is a foul-mouthed fascist, a narcissistic misogynist, an uninformed hothead hack columnist. Let her be judged according to those qualities, BUT I ask that anyone reading this have a long sit down and think.

Think about what you are doing to a section of the queer community, that is still struggling for acceptance in that community. Was your joke worth marginalizing and dehumanizing a group of people (transgendered) who in my experience are most always left leaning, champions of other's rights all the while swimming upstream against a very heavy current of intolerance and demeaning jokes much of which comes from even the progressive community.

Really think about this. Can you honestly reconcile jokes about Ann Coulter's supposed resemblance to a transsexual, with your own perpetuation of cruel treatment of an already
horribly treated minority?


-- Maddie Joan Blaustein

[bicentennial_baby]

1. I agree with you 100%

This is something that bothers me quite a bit, but I have not been able to express it nearly as eloquently as you have. Thank you.

[Bluebear]

2. Nominated

By one who thought long and hard about it.

[readmoreoften]

8. Howdy, Bluebear!

:hug:

[maddiejoan]

13. big howdy here as well

:)

[Bluebear]

16. Howdy back ladies :)

[Luminous Animal]

3. Amen! (n/t)

[AlienGirl]

4. Thank you for posting this

It saddens me when progressives act like calling someone gender-variant is an OK way to insult them. :-( We're supposed to be the tolerant, accepting ones, remember?

Ann Coulter is a reprehensible right-wing douchebag, and deserves to be insulted for her execrable opinions. The things she believes, and says, provide plenty of ammunition against her without having to stoop to insulting her possible appearance of gender variance.

Tucker

[notadmblnd]

26. What do you have against douchbags?

They serve a good purpose, thats more than Ann Coulter can say. But seriously...

I understand how the OP feels, but at some point we have to stop being victims. Thoughtless words of other people can only hurt us if we let them.

I think it is human nature for people to size up each others weaknesses and use those weaknesses against those who are perceived to be our enemies or not like us. Appearance, whether it is skin color, mannish or feminine features, size etc.. is something we are all judged by and in society. We can't help it as human beings.

When you get right down to it, whether it is people making fun of Ann Coulters mannish features or the bushes intelligence and competence... it is wrong ... we all know it and we're ALL guilty of it at one time or another.

For a lot of us I think it is a coping mechanism, a way for us to deal with our feelings of helplessness and frustration. Should we always strive to rise above it? Yes, but I think people need to be cut some slack on this.. right now there are bigger battles to be fought.

[maddiejoan]

52. First. I'm no victim.

Victims roll over and let people run roughshod over their feelings. They respond to hurt by drawing inward and letting the cycle of abuse elevate.

In order to NOT be a victim, one must clamp down hard on the oppressor and make damn sure they know you are on to their game. They usually crumble and remain silent, when they see the jig is up.

Look at your post. Very revealing. You state it is human nature to size up a person's weakness and judge accordingly. Where your premise falls flat is in your assumption that transsexuality is a weakness. I can assure you it is not.

Again also --making fun of Dubya's lack of intelligence is very fitting. He is the defacto leader of the free world. He had better damn well be intelligent.

Calling Coulter's gender into question by what your percieve as clues to non-conformist gender behaviour or appearance has absolutely nothing to do with her job. It has to do with your judgement over what does or doesn't constitute a "real" woman.

For those of you who use this as a coping mechanism? Get over yourselves, and stop being a victim. The nature of an enlightened person is to constantly strive to be their best person.

There is no bigger battle to be fought thern the fight for people to declare their own identity. The pursuit of happiness.

[notadmblnd]

54. I don't recall mentioning transexuality in my post.

my conversation was to words and how we are ALL guilty at times of using PERCEIVED WEAKNESSES against other people. What I offered was my heartfelt explaination as to why I think all people do this. To me that is very revealing as to your own agenda and tolerence..

[SheepyMcSheepster]

5. kick!

agreed

[swimmernsecretsea]

6. Thank you.

Reality check. It stops here, folks. There's plenty of material to use in reference to Ann Coulter, but appearing to be a transsexual or cross-dresser is an insult to others, not to her. She spends a great deal of time insulting the looks of members of political groups she disagrees with as a form of argument, which shows how lacking she is in both character and intellect. Let's not make ourselves worse than she.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. You're right, of course.

Whatever Coulter is, the important point is that she's a nasty, hateful bigot and any possible gender issues are irrelevant to that. But I suspect that at least some of the remarks about her gender are based on the idea that if she really is transsexual (which I actually doubt), her hateful attitude towards GLBT people (and almost everybody else) would prove she's also a hypocrite of the worst sort -- not to mention that it would make the freepers go absolutely berserk. That said, and by no means intending to excuse insensitive remarks, I totally agree that if we want to give Miz Annthrax the ass-whupping she so richly deserves, we should focus on her deeply evil personality, not on her appearance.

[LdyGuique]

9. I'm in total agreement

I also feel that Rush Limbaugh always being referred to as "fat" in some perjorative manner to be irrelevant. He's a foul-mouthed lying sack o'shit.

Trashing people based on various biases that reflect their gender, age, or physical attributes doesn't aid any argument about what they're actually saying or doing and is hardly a defining argument. It's not appropriate on the schoolyard nor is it appropriate in the adult arena.

[shanti]

51. oh, the word "fat"

is used as a pejorative by SO many people. they practically spit it out.

[maddiejoan]

10. Thank you for your posts

The last few days, I've been a seething cauldron of rage mixed with horrow mixed with sadness. Since the Time Mag cover, it seems to have gotten worse, and my purpose here is simply to open a dialogue that helps foster some understanding on the issue of gender noncomformity and how society both left and right has a long way to go towards even simple tolerance.

MJB

[Inland]

11. Misogynist! Perfectly good word that hasn't been used much

since Coulter's brand of demeaning and dismissive behavior towards women went of style in the early seventies.

[TahitiNut]

12. Agreed 100%. We must always remember, when we employ the values ...

... of the fascist right, we become them. It is their values (or lack thereof) that is detestable, not their beings.

[readmoreoften]

14. You know you've got my support on this, Maddie.

:hug:

[maddiejoan]

15. I know I do -

-and I still say your boyfriend is a very lucky man
:hug:

[readmoreoften]

18. I told him that and he said he agreed! :)

We go through so much stress, the last place I want to hear anti-trans comments are on DU.

[driver8]

17. Guilty as charge! You are absolutely right...I have friends who

are transgendered and using this to describe Ann Coulter is an insult to my friends.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

[frictionlessO]

25. Hey!!! That was soo very cool of you to come right out and say that!

This is what makes DU great, we have plenty of people who are willing to admit when they were wrong.. I just love it when they actually do it in front of and in support of a thread like this...

Really, thank you!

[VOX]

19. Right with you, mj.

Not to steer the thread away from its original intent re the GLBTG community, but not only am I in complete agreement with you, I feel a similar concern having just read posts by those critical of Jane Fonda, but couching their beefs strictly in the context of her age and/or "wrinkles" or plastic surgery.

[maddiejoan]

20. I don't think you're steering it away

Like the previous poster who remarked about Limbaugh's weight problem, It's all essentially the same issue --body images are still considered appropriate fodder, and it takes away from the true message.

[readmoreoften]

21. No, I agree.

The 'man coulter' threads also insult aging women who don't have all that youthful estrogen in their system.

[imenja]

22. it is sexism

Coulter defies conventional standards of how a woman should behave. She is assertive, opinionated, and acerbic, therefore she cannot be a woman. I've remarked on this often, but few care. It will be interesting to see if your remarks about transgenderism are better received. They do seem to be. My theory is that many cling to sexism as their last bastion of prejudice and they refuse to relinquish it. I expect too many feel they have something to lose it they do.

[maddiejoan]

24. ding ding ding!

We have a winner!

[frictionlessO]

23. Very well said, thank you thank you thank you!

I wish I were as brave as you.....

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. I think for a lot of people

Joking that she is a man is a way of poking fun at her raw hypocrisy, since she belittles her gender all the time and is constantly telling us what a "woman's place" is. She says women are stupid, can't understand finances, should be submissive wives and mothers - all while being a woman in the spotlight, who is incidentally very mannish looking. People see an (admittedly cruel) irony there.

But you are right in that it's not considerate to demean her that way because it is hurtful to people who are transgendered. I don't think people do it out of a sense of prejudice towards GBLT people, but rather out of a sense of ignorance, and a sense of wanting to hit Coulter where it hurts. Not that that excuses hurting people, of course.

[Swamp Rat]

28. Exactly!!! She's a goddamn alien lizard!

IT can change sex at will!!! :puke:

[AlienGirl]

29. HEY! What've you got against alien lizards?

[Swamp Rat]

32. Everything, since they are trying to steal all of Earth's resources and

exterminate humankind. :scared:

[frictionlessO]

39. Oh Yes!! My fave lizard pic!! Have you worked on this one some???

Seems a little more done... hmm could be my new flat screen though.

Reptilian fuckers!

[Swamp Rat]

40. Yes, it is a newer version.

Actually, the older version was a draft that I exibited too early. Then when I finally got back to it (months later), I decided to add a few more lizards. :)

[frictionlessO]

59. I have a copy of the old one blown up to the size of a pin up in my cube!

Im gonna hold onto it so I can sell it on eBay when your all famous for something or another.:headbang:

[maddiejoan]

37. alien lizard I'll buy --

--but why bring changing sex into this? Have you ever observed Ann Coulter changing her sex? Have you ever observed Coulter in any gender other than one she presents as?

BTW love your atwork

[Swamp Rat]

42. Thanks

No, I never observed her/him/it changing sexes, but a lot of people seemed confused and have speculated about her gender. I assume Coulter Lizard can change sexes in order to confuse other predators. :)

[maddiejoan]

44. There's an old saying in Tennessee

--or in Texas, I think it's also in Tennessee.

When you uh --when you assume --uh
You make an ass --erm--you make

You don't get fooled again.


:::curtsy:::

[Protagoras]

30. I'd call her a soulless, evil, lying whore...

But that would be overly critical of Soulless, evil, lying whores.

She's the ultimate sellout. She's the brownshirt that made the heart and soul of movements like Nazism and the McCarthy era. And yes...she's about anything else nasty we care to throw into the mix. Has anyone ever interviewed her parents?

[suziedemocrat]

31. I think the idea of her being a transsexual is the hypocrisy of it all.

Republicans are such homophobes. That is why it would be hilarious if one of their "women" was really a man. I don't think people make these jokes as a put down to transsexuals - I think they do it to put down Republicans as hypocrites. The way you might describe Bush as a draft Dodger - when really Bill Clinton did the same thing. But, since Bill wasn't dying to go to war with as many countries as possible for absolutely no reason - it didn't matter will him so much. But a PRO-WAR DRAFT DODGER is awful!! And Rush Limbaugh - Mister Tough on Crime - illegally buying prescription drugs is awful - even from people who may themselves have smoked pot in the past. Or an adulterous televangelist minister is awful - when really adultery is pretty common. And a Republican, homophobic transsexual is awful. It's the hypocrisy that makes this funny.

[maddiejoan]

33. I never bought the hypocracy argument

First in the other cases you cite, Bush, and Rush --these are actual proven arguments, so the hypocracy is established. Coulter's alleged transsexuality is not.

Second --and rather importantly -- a transsexual woman (note no quotes) was never a man. The idea that transsexual women are "really men" is offensive beyond belief.

I am not now and have never been a man.There is a saying "Gender is between ears, Sex is between the legs".

It is quite obvious from teenage photos that Ann was born biologically female.

People make these jokes because they believe that being transsexual is icky, and so what a great way to insult a person than to call them transsexual. It's quite frankly, not hilarious at all. A republican, homophobic transsexual would not be awful --it would be tragic, and I would be very concerned about that person being suicidal.

MJB

[suziedemocrat]

47. Oh - I thought they really DID think she was a transsexual.

I don't mean to be offensive in any way. Maybe I am ignorant - but I don't mean to be cruel. And I don't think anyone else here at DU means to be cruel either. It is good that you posted this to make us all aware of how when we think we are being funny we are hurting innocent people.

[readmoreoften]

48. yes, the idea of 'hoping' that some republican is really

a conflicted GLBT person to me is morbid to those of us who know how hard it is to survive out of the closet.

A part of me always thinks that straight liberals secretly hope that all homo/transphobes are closeted GLBT people, not just because it's ironic or threatens their credibility, but because it would be easier if homo/transphobia were just a purely queer problem: 'queers are the targets, queers are the cause...we're just the people sitting on the sidelines while you folks in-fight.'

[maddiejoan]

53. excellent point

I've never thought about it that way --but, yes, that seems about right.

[Luminous Animal]

56. Case in point...

A discussion I am sort of having with another DUer here. I used maddie's original post as a jumping ground, his defense is the irony of freepers being attracted to "him".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1735648

[readmoreoften]

36. But she's not a transsexual.

So it's not ironic.

[Mich Otter]

34. The Point

There are lots of ignorant Republicans, as well as a bunch of equally ignorant Democrats and Independents, who call Hillary Clinton a "man' or a "bitch". All of these people are showing their immaturity at dealing with various viewpoints. They don't know how to make their views known without resorting to demeaning name calling.
The point is: we need to get over having labels and focus on discussing the ideas. We have to be willing and able to defend our viewpoints without getting into the fallacies of name calling.
For some information you can use to make your points, check out the information about fallacies in debate at: http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

[maddiejoan]

35. ding ding ding!

another winner!

[Mich Otter]

50. By the way...

best wishes to you. Thanks for the post.

[The Magistrate]

38. Well Said, Ms. Joan

Perhaps this discussion here will bear a useful fruit in future concerning this....

[maddiejoan]

46. Thank you, Sir.

:smile:

[Technowitch]

41. Hear-hear. Beautifully and succinctly put.

I literally couldn't have put this better if I'd tried. I also could not possibly agree more with these sentiments. If people didn't mean these assertions as insults, they wouldn't be using them so consistently, with such inflammatory and often obscene language.

Transgendered and transsexual folks have things hard enough as it is. We don't need to add to their pain.

Bravo, and thank you for saying something that I myself have also felt needed to be said.

Sincerely,
-Technowitch

[UncleSepp]

43. THANK YOU

Every time I see some dumb joke about "Mann Coulter", it makes me want to give up on DU.

[tavalon]

45. Damn good point n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

49. Proof you don't have to be a man to be a chauvinist, or an asshole.

[stevedeshazer]

55. I'm with you, maddiejoan

100%.

I used to be a supervisor, and I had to fire someone for harrassing a transgender employee, who just happened to be not only a terrific employee, but a wonderful human being.

I wish people could look past our differences and find the similarities. I try, but I'm far from perfect.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Obamarama]

57. I think you need to grow a thicker skin....

I really think you're over-reacting. If you go into apoplexy every time someone calls Ann Coulter "Mann Coulter", you're going to have a stroke.

I'm gay, and if I had a meltdown each time anyone were to use a word or phrase that could possibly be construed to be derogatory to gays or lesbians, I'd be walking around in a perpetual snit. That wouldn't be much fun for me, let alone the people around me.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill and that PCism seems to be running amok.

[maddiejoan]

58. Thank you,

For telling me how I'm supposed to feel. :sarcasm:

[Obamarama]

61. Actually.....

I told you how I feel, shared my perspective.

You are free to feel or think whatever you want/need to feel or think.

[readmoreoften]

60. Just goes to show that not all gay people are empathetic

to the special breed of insanity that trans people go through. And as a gay person in a relationship with a trans person I have every right to say such a thing.

[Obamarama]

64. Actually, I am very empathetic....

I have an acqaintance, Kelli, who is a male to female transgendered person and I have at least a minimum baseline understanding of what transgendered people are up against.

Not too long ago, a mutual acquaintance said something really catty about Michael Jackson and his masculinity, or lack thereof. Kelli cracked up and said she knew an excellent surgeon she could recommend to MJ.

Later, I asked Kelli if that comment had bothered her and she said she definitely noticed it, but didn't take offense at it or feel upset. She said we all need to pick our battles and she is too busy living her life and making up for lost time as a man to be playing the role of PC police.

I just think we'd all be a little bit less stressed and little happier if we let the little things roll off our backs instead of turning them into soapbox issues.

[walldude]

62. I think you missed the point..

Coulter has done and said enough that there is no need to play the "gender card" when debasing her. I agree with MJ on this one. No need to stoop to using schoolyard insults to get the point across about this trust-fund psycho. We are supposed to be the tolerant ones after all...

[sonicx]

63. Should we let people call black republicans 'niggers'?

[KnowerOfLogic]

67. Wrong. "PC" is nothing but good manners, and dems should not

have to abandon good manners to make a point; if we do, then maybe our case is not very strong. (and god knows there is a case to be made against Coulter).

[mandyky]

65. I haven't seen all the remarks but when

I address the Ann issue about sexual orientation, it is not about anyone else but her. If s/he is transgender then her behavior is even more nuerotic. As I sit here thinking about it, I'm not sure I have said anything about her sexuality, although her man sized adam's apple is quite noticeable. But I could care less, I just hate the way she talks about Libs and Dems. She is so caustic, it almost hurts to listen to her.

[KnowerOfLogic]

66. Yes, the "Man" Coulter stuff is really not helpful. nt

[KarenS]

68. well said and Bravo for saying it !!!

"Coulter is a foul-mouthed fascist, a narcissistic misogynist, an uninformed hothead hack columnist. Let her be judged according to those qualities, BUT I ask that anyone reading this have a long sit down and think."

[Disturbed]

69. Thanks maddiejoan.

I agree.