Let's create a religion

[WilliamPitt]

Rather than go back and forth with the zaps against this religion or that religion or no religion or don't-stuff-your-religion-down-my-throat or 'bashing' or whatever, let's cobble together some ideas we can all get behind regarding religion. Those of you who do not 'believe,' so to speak, i.e. who do not believe in any sort of supernatural existence or Ultimate Being are wildly welcome to participate.

What would the canons of this religion be?

What would or would not constitute a 'sin'?

What aspects of the religion would be created to allow for those who do not believe in an Ultimate Being or whatever?

How would the gospels of this religion read?

Debating religion is like trying to grip sand; it is a 'faith' v. 'fact' collision that goes nowhere. The 'faith' folks are not going to be swayed by facts because faith reaches beyond fact, and the 'fact' folk are not going to be swayed because facts tend to clobber faith.

Let's cut it down the middle, perhaps in honor of this last pope if you prefer and perhaps not, and try to assemble a religion that makes sense on every level and is open to all.

One thing: Try to avoid statements like "Don't have anything like they have in x religion" etc. Let's make this a positive exercise and not a negative one.

Have at it.

[mike_c]

1. canon # 1....

God is a myth created by humans to explain things they do not understand.

[bobthedrummer]

5. Sounds like secular humanism-Will asked to create a religion

not define the old secular humanist belief system.
:thumbsdown:

[mike_c]

14. why does "religion" have to depend upon belief in the supernatural?

:shrug:

on edit: what's wrong with "faith" in the ultimate reducibility of the universe to understandable concepts?

[WilliamPitt]

18. Because the universe is beyond ultimate reductability

There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is in your philosophy.

[mike_c]

24. can you prove that statement, or is acknowledgement of ignorance...

...sufficient to prove irreducibility? Obviously I disagree with the notion that my simple inability to understand the universe constitutes proof of some supernatural being that does. Or that my lack of understanding proves the impossiblity of ever understanding. That is such a wide open fallacy that I'm continually shocked to see people embracing it so avidly.

[Just Me]

34. BWAHAHAHA,....why don't you go first?

:bounce:

[mike_c]

45. I think I just did....

eom

[Just Me]

58. Tomorrow, the universe could be proven to be something you,...

,...never knew existed. Our constructs could be completely wrong. Wouldn't that be something? :bounce:

[mike_c]

65. of course-- I think that's a given....

I just don't think that necessitates supernatural constructs-- it just means that both my understanding and my current perceptions are both limited. Again, the fact that I am ignorant of many things does not prove the existance of "someone" who is omniscient.

[Arugula Latte]

71. Well said, mike_c

Thank you. :thumbsup:

[Just Me]

94. Why does the construct HAVE to have "someone" who is,...

,...omniscient? :shrug: There are many spiritual constructs that don't embrace a separate omnipotence but rather includes everything and everyone as a part and expression of omnipotence.

In a world full of mystery where we are all subjected to the unknown, it is a good thing to create a structure which is mutually constructive and evenly applied.

Doncha' think? :bounce:

[mike_c]

126. sorry, I was out for a few hours-- hope you get this reply....

My belief is that "natural" things are ultimately understandable, even if we never understand them. They obey natural laws, even when not deterministic, therefore they can be reduced to simple, universal expressions-- again, even if we are unable to accomplish that.

Anything that transcends such understanding is necessarily supernatural-- not subject to the constraints of natural law, and therefore not understandable under any circumstances. You posit a "world full of mystery," but I think there can only be two kinds of mysteries-- natural mysteries, which can be solved by some means, and thereby lead to knowledge and understanding, and supernatural mysteries, which can never be solved and whose proposed explanations must simply be taken as matters of faith.

Obviously I do not believe in the latter kind of mystery, so it follows that I don't accept the existence of supernatural causes. That doesn't mean that the universe isn't full of mystery-- it just means that they are all natural mysteries.

[ultraist]

42. That's essentially what Einstein said Mike. I agree.

Although, Einstein felt that the wonders of the universe would be explained by Science one day. (Of course, he did not believe in any supernatural beings).

[Just Me]

51. You mean the Einstein that said imagination is greater than knowledge?

btw: I thought Einstein was a deist :shrug:

[PassingFair]

54. Fine line between agnostic and atheist (if any)

but he was certainly no deist.

[libertypirate]

189. Re : "Fine line between agnostic and atheist (if any)"

Are you kidding?

A very BIG difference between the two, an atheist has a position while an agnostic does not.

As a matter of fact atheists and believers have the same terrible disease they know nothing because they have to believe what promotes their views over what they know doesn't.

The agnostic is the most different because they remain open to possibilities.

[ScreamingMeemie]

190. An agnostic is an atheist afraid to use the term in public.

:hi: Most agnostics I know are not open to any possibility of a power greater than themselves.

[ultraist]

73. No, Einstein was not a diest

http://condor.stcloudstate.edu/~lesikar/einstein/personal.html
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature.

The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge

[johnaries]

72. Then why did he say "God does not play dice with the universe?'

Although he did say he didn't believe in a Personal God that directs our daily lives, he also said:

"My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality."

http://condor.stcloudstate.edu/~lesikar/einstein/personal.html

[ultraist]

77. Because he did not believe in supernatural beings

As he noted in that letter, his views on religion were being distorted.
Next line following the one you quoted:

If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it

[Just Me]

88. Knowing that there are things greater than our understanding is not,...

necessarily a belief in a "supernatural being". It's an admission of our limits and that we will constantly be confronted with "mysteries". The structure we choose to create within that existence is relevant to the quality of the short time we have here.

I'll have to go back and examine Einstein because I was sure he had a spiritual facet,...though not religious one.

[ultraist]

97. Of course Einstein knew there were things beyond our current understanding

He didn't claim that everything in the universe had been explained. That would be contradictory to his own research. He also didn't attribute the unexplained to religion or magical beings. His sense of "spirituality," was the wonder and awe of all of this. But again, his definition of "spirituality" is not the same as many here define it. It does not include any supreme beings or gods.

He didn't attribute the unknown to something that was mystical or spiritual in the sense that most define those words.

[Warren DeMontague]

149. Actually, he was challenging quantum physics.

Based on his gut opinion of how things work.

He didn't think things could possibly be that weird.

Almost a century later, based on all the available evidence right now, it's ever more clear that the quantum folks were right... and Albert Einstein, brilliant as he was, was wrong-- at least on that particular point.

[Walt Starr]

82. Sorry, but Buddhism is a religion that has no ultimate deity

Deities are not a requirement for religion.

[mike_c]

129. buddhism straddles the line, IMO....

It is a religion, I think, because it seeks supernatural causes for observed nature, but let me emphasize that my understanding of buddhism is VERY limited. Nonetheless, one does not need deities per se in order to posit supernatural causes.

[Flubadubya]

151. "it seeks supernatural causes for observed nature"...

Not according to my understanding of Buddhism. The Buddha stated that form is emptiness, emptiness form. The two are inseparable and one does not "cause" the other.

He also stated that craving or desire is what keeps suffering going and it is simply a matter of ending craving that leads to the end of suffering, and ultimately to enlightenment.

Some branches of Buddhism have adopted supernatural structures to include beneficent and malignant deities, etc. but the principal message of Buddhism eschews all this and goes straight to the matter of personal enlightenment (or salvation if you will) and does not bother with deities or supernatural causes for observed nature.

According to the Buddha, reality is your own doing and is ultimately your own "undoing".

Peace. Aummmm....

[Warpy]

56. The psychology and philosophy known as Buddhism

has degenerated into a religion for some of its followers and used to mistreat people outside it.

I think religious people will turn anything they find into a religion if they aren't handed one as children. It's part of who they are.

The best religions are a guide for right living and a source of great social support.

The worst are destructive to the environment and the human spirit and an excuse for the worst things human beings do to each other.

Instead of starting new ones, why not just try to get the point of some of the religions that are already out there?

[mike_c]

59. best response in this thread, IMO....

Kudos for cutting right to the heart of the matter.

[Just Me]

66. I can certainly agree with that. n/t

[usrbs]

100. Because the big 3 are irredeemably flawed, and we need something better.

I don't know enough about Buddism to judge its worth, but look around you and see what horrors the rest have wrought.

Some new commandments:
- Be a good steward to the Earth and its animals, and do not despoil her
- Seek the truth and strive for understanding
- Enjoy your body, and the pleasures of this life

Some old commandments, newly stressed
- The Golden Rule
- Thou shall not steal, murder or lie.

[H2O Man]

108. It doesn't.

Either you haven't been correctly informed, or have not understood. But religion does not have to depend upon any belief in the supernatural.

[mike_c]

128. of course it does, at least if it is built upon a belief...

...in "god" or "gods." Deities are the supernatural causes used to explain mysteries that humans have no present understanding of. Deities are "supernatural" if their actions transcend natural law. If they don't transcend natural law, then how does worshipping them differ from animism?

[H2O Man]

134. That's a good question

for you to consider further, if it is important to you. If it's not, then you need not consider it. However, even if you do not care to consider it worth looking into, I can assure you that you are in error. There is no need to believe in the supernatural, or to be limited to animism.

[mike_c]

136. ok-- is "god" natural or supernatural?

Or are we even talking about the same thing? Is "god" constrained by natural laws?

[H2O Man]

137. What natural laws

do you refer to as potentially constraining "god"?

[mike_c]

139. ANY natural laws....

I suspect you're as familiar with this line of argument as I am. Is god constrained by the laws of thermodynamics, e.g. can god organize matter without incurring an energy debt? Can god create life simply by willing it? Can god create new matter in the universe? Is EVERY god action constrained by the limits placed on matter and energy, just as it is for you and I? If so, god is natural, but no different than anyone else. If not, god is supernatural and his/her/its existence cannot be proven by natural means.

[H2O Man]

154. Well, those are interesting points.

I suspect that "you and I" have many of the constraints that we take for granted, but that do not apply to "nature." And I am confident that you would agree with that.

I am also confident that you would agree that Gandhi was a religious man. In truth, he doesn't seem to fit the usual constraints that most people deal with, though in fact of course he had the same emotions and passions that make us distinctly human. One of Gandhi's favorite sayings was, "Truth is God."

"Truth is God" is an interesting concept. Gandhi attempted to find and live truth. Another of his sayings on truth is this: "There should be truth in thought, truth in speech, and truth in action. Devotion to truth is the sole justification of our existence. It is impossible for us to realize perfect truth so long as we are imprisoned in this mortal frame."

I suspect that you value truth every bit as much as I do. Thus, I am confident that you recognize that there is a world of difference between the truth and a lie. I'm not as sure how you would put Truth into the laws of thermodynamics, or even limit it to being imprisoned in the mortal frame of matter. I suspect that gravity may play a role, and that lies are brought down, while truth rises.

[stray cat]

52. Any belief system or lack thereof can function as a crutch.

A disbelief in any ultimate power is pursued by humans to avoid accountability to anyone or anything other than self-interest.

[mike_c]

68. ok, that works....

I don't think I'd go so far as to agree that lack of accountability is a cause of disbelief, certainly not of my own, but it is certainly a valid corollary.

[Discord]

81. not true. you think because I dont persue an

ultimate power, that I do so to excuse any accountability?

I'm gonna bite my tongue on this...

But my response wouldn't have been very kind...

[Zhade]

159. That's bullshit. Unbelievers are "avoiding accountability"?

Totally untrue.

Should I say that believers are embracing accountability by believing because they're afraid they're too weak to be responsible on their own? Of course not - that would be a bigoted statement, just like yours.

[Mojorabbit]

83. 1)Everyone and everything has

within it the spark of divinity. Treat them/it as so.
2)There are thousands of creation myths. They are all true.
3) The golden rule

Nothing else is needed.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

172. I like that!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. Canon 2: If Tom Delay, Bill Frist, or Rick Santorum do it, it's wrong

.

[JVS]

160. Shit, now we need to stop breathing!

;-)

[jus_the_facts]

3. Imagine...NO RELIGION.....it's easy if you TRY!

:nopity:

[glaucon]

7. bingo

World's bad ideas #1:

"Let's make a religion."

[Discord]

76. agree 1000%

[BrklynLiberal]

4. All genders, races, creeds, colors, ethnic origins, are entitled to equal

respect and treatment.

[mike_c]

11. that's a secular notion, not that I disagree...

...but what would you say are its religious foundations?

[BrklynLiberal]

16. How can it be stated as a "religious" tenet?

[mike_c]

28. well, how about...

...all are equal in the eyes of god?

[xultar]

13. and sexual orientations...

[BrklynLiberal]

19. Absolutely...I was hoping that gender would cover that..but stating it

explicitly could not hurt.

[xultar]

74. Like we'd all think civil rights would apply to every one now right...

don't give the fuckers any room to wiggle or they'll free themselves of the rules.

[ultraist]

20. And sexual orientationals! xultar beat me to it!

:)

[Cleita]

6. Man made religions are doomed.

The minute you write anything down as dogma, you are trapped in it. Sprirituality comes from the heart and mind. It's personal.

Laws to live by come from the society you live in and should be what is best for the community. We haven't been seeing much of that recently due to religion trying to regulate our morals.

[PassingFair]

22. Just want to use one of these.

:applause:

Seemed an appropriate post for one!
Thanks!

[Discord]

60. Exactly.

I expanded on this thought a bit in my post below. Its the institutions I have issue with, not the religious.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

8. Sorry, Will, I'm going to violate the request for a non-apophatic approach

1) What you find hateful in others' actions, please do not do to me.

2) Never confuse human rationality/justice for divine will/justice.

[Steel City Slim]

9. Start A Religion

Your subject line reminded me of Jim Morrison:

Lying on stained, wretched sheets with a bleeding virgin
We could plan a murder
Or start a religion.

[PassingFair]

26. Or ...

Jim JONES.
Guyana, anyone?

[jedr]

36. out here on the perimeter we are stoned; immaculate!

[Steel City Slim]

50. Eternal Reward

No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.

[Blue-Jay]

10. Great. Let's worship on the altar of Will.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Um...no

I hope that was a joke.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. It is incumbent upon those of us who have more to help those who have less

not to ensure a place for us in heaven or a better afterlife, but just because it is naturally the right thing to do.
One should always be able to imagine how it would feel to be the one who is in the position of having less, and be grateful to be in the position of having more and being able to help those who have less.
(This is not always meant to apply to material goods. It can also apply to emotional support as well, as taking in those who have lost family)

[morgan2]

17. the golden rule

Its really the only basic tenant everyone wanting to do good can agree on. The problem comes about in conflicts of how people would want to be treated.

[BrklynLiberal]

25. Exactly. I was thinking the same thing.

I was about to saythat it comes down to the golden rule...but then it occured to me that you could run into the problem of how certain people might want to be treated.....(i.e. masochists, etc. to stretch the point)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

173. new varient...

Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.

[Just Me]

30. Yep. The Golden Rule is a great rule.

And, if one is willing to think deeply about that rule, it's flexibility (rather than rigidity) becomes obvious.

For example, how would I want to be treated if I am being a total jerk for no good reason? :bounce:

[knowbody0]

21. ok

i searched high and low for a religion after i was banished from the catholic church. in my search, i found a common thread: "be nice". i personally adopted the mantra, allowing the greater good to guide me and to profoundly attempt to cause no harm.
my religion is simple and logical.

[gumby]

85. The plaque outside my front door

made of hand carved cedar simply says: BE NICE. I enjoy looking at it when coming and going.

[Kansas Wyatt]

23. Why not just copy what is already there, and...

Leave out the controversial talking points of the right wing. But really emphasize the important stuff that the right wing always conveniently leaves out. Since it would not be foreign to most people, it would catch on that much quicker. You may even be able to refocus the radical pawns of the right wing into attacking what the right wing refuses to address, instead of attacking wedge issues.

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. Okay:

god = the sum total of those natural forces and laws which shaped and govern the universe (mathematics, physics, and so on...essentially the order and structure of everything); this can be seen as purely natural and impersonal, or as supernatural and imbued with personality, depending on one's inclination.

Second: ethics. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That covers everything.

[anarchy1999]

29. This time I'm confused by you, Will!

What are you doing?

Take care of the least among us, do unto others, take care,

What are you thinking?

"Do unto others" runs true in every religion there is, do we really need another one?

One too many this afternoon? It's okay, I've had too many as well.

Pain is Deep.

[anarchy1999]

70. Will starts a thread and then he disappears.

Anyone else notice a trend?

[WilliamPitt]

114. "I've had too many as well"

Maybe that's why you didn't get a response.

I work 18 hours a day, and weekends as well.

I also like to see how threads develop without necessarily diving into them 20 times.

Have another.

[anarchy1999]

144. Cheers to you, dear sir.

Have you ever seen the film, "The Hired Hand"? It was Peter Fonda's directiorial debut. I watched it this am. It is an awesome piece of work and I highly recommmend it to you. The sunsets alone are worth viewing.

Love you lots. Thanks.

[achtung_circus]

31. It's an interesting idea.

Rather than merely scream about how awful religion of any stripe is crap (with which position I disagree) define what a "good" religion should encompass.

I'll help.

on edit: I lost a sentence somewhere. I was raised a Christian, the Ten Commandments do have some good stuff.

Thou shalt have none other gods before me. who cares

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image who cares

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. who cares

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. a good idea, everyone needs mental health days

Honor thy father and thy mother seems reasonable

Thou shalt not kill. Very much so

So, from the 10 Commandments, I propose 5 tenets that seem positive rules for interacting with other people. They will require a little rewriting, for example, some parents don't deserve respect.

Neither shalt thou commit adultery. too open to interpretation.

Neither shalt thou steal. Very much so

Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor. Very much so

Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's.
who cares, it's unenforceable

Also on edit: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[BrklynLiberal]

63. I think George Carlin did a great version of this...

I believe he ended up with 2 Commandments: Thou shalt not kill and one more.

Here is the answer-
http://www.dvrbs.com/GeorgeCarlin-TheTenCommandments.htm

Carlin On religion
http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/carlin.html

[troubleinwinter]

32. pearls

1) Do not cast pearls before those who would trample them underfoot.

2) Do not trample others' pearls underfoot.

[stillcool]

33. God is a concept....

that can not be taught. As individual as DNA. Can not be bought, borrowed or stolen. Only comes to those who seek. Only can be defined by ones perception. Purpose is individual growth benefiting oneself and society through expression of innate talent. Only commandment is to love thyself. Sins? Ultimate sin; believing in false gods.

[Discord]

47. self love, or vanity, is one of the "deadly sins"

just pointing that out...

[stillcool]

69. In my opinion it is the source from which all else flows......

vanity implies false pride which is far different than self-love, which is more a matter of accepting yourself as you are. Dealing with what is, rather than what may never be. Everything starts with self. I can teach nothing that i have not learned. And it is up to me to learn that which i would prefer to teach. If i want to practice love and tolerance i must first learn it in regards to myself, otherwise what will i be teaching? Your version? If people could learn that they have everything they need in the package called self it would certainly do away with alot of issues born of fear.

[Discord]

75. maybe a better term to use would be self-respect.

just a thought.

:)

[merh]

127. The term is "self love"

Some of the vainest people I know have little, if any self esteem. They do not love themselves for who they are and their vanity is their effort to show the world how great they are so that they can feel loved.

Vanity if totally different from truly loving oneself.

The simplistic understanding of Christianity or the message of Christ's life can be found in the New Testament. When asked "what is the greatest commandment" Jesus replied "to love thy God with thy whole heart and thy whole soul" then he went on further to say "second unto to that is to love thy brother/neighbor as thyself".

Throughout his teachings Jesus spoke of God's love, the love of a father, unconditional love. My simple interpretations of all of this is God is love, pure love, unconditional love. We are to love love (God) we are to love unconditionally with our whole heart and with all we are, we are to love ourselves, accepting ourselves for who we are and recognizing that we are love, and we are to love others as much as we love ourselves and our God, or love.

If we love, we cannot violate the 10 commandments, we cannot do harm to others or ourselves or our earth.

[ultraist]

35. my suggestion: Use language that is not loaded to promote inclusiveness

The Term Gospel comes from an old Anglo-Saxon word godespel meaning God's tidings or good tidings. The Greek word is euaggelion meaning good news and euaggelos a bringing of good news. Originally the word referred to the reward given to the one carrying the good news and not to the news itself. However in the New Testament usage it always refers to the news and never to the reward. The word Gospel is closely connected to the Old Testament prophesies of the Messiah and conveys the idea of foretelling and proclaiming the fulfillment of the promised Messiah.

The four works called the Gospels are really four records of one Gospel. However the Gospel is not to be thought as only limited to the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The Gospel is found through out the Bible and especially the rest of the New Testament.

[roguevalley]

37. my thoughts

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.
Take care of your land and the animals and plants therein.
You are your brother's keeper.
All souls are equal under the gaze of the Lord, male and female.
Judge not lest ye also be judged.

Sins would be of ommission: ignoring the poor, erecting artificial barriers of gender and sexual and racial discrimination that harm what God expects us to be and do for each other.

Believe what you can, always do right, look out for each other, listen to each other, the 'canon' of one is the hearsay of another and since we all pray to the same god, what does it matter what form it takes?

Community, charity, faith in the goodness of others and your duty to help those in need, these are the things I would include. A life lived without good works is no life at all. No one is elevated over another, man is no more important than animals and trees and the earth.

[Discord]

41. take out the God, Lord and other religious theories

Need to have appeal to non-religious people if you want to be able to include everyone.

[Spider Jerusalem]

46. See #27. (n/t)

[Discord]

53. good post, but would suggest changing it to god as opposed

to God. Which is a proper noun and is used in that form as titling a name, or the Name of God.

[ultraist]

48. Particularly the Christian theories.

If I were to choose a religion, it would be an Eastern one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Can I throw my halo in the ring for the throne?

Only 1 commandment: Thou shalt not stuff 47 tennis balls down thy toilet.

*Apologies to Alan Sherman for plagiarism.

[Discord]

39. I would have a hard time seeing any common ground

to be had between "any religions" and non-religious.

I would not be inclined to desire any religion, new or old, that contains ANY belief in a supreme being, unless you can consider "the universe as a whole" as being the supreme being, but that "the universe" is not sentient or posesses any form of persona. I also am against ALL forms of institutionalized religion. It is the institution that becomes corrupt, it creates man-made dogma, it closes the mind to other concepts or ideas outside of ones own personal beliefs. It creates seperation from each other, forms a heirarchy and beurrocracy within its ranks, and formulates a elitist mentality to all those within it. My ideal would be to be done with all religious institutions, leaving only the teachings behind. (That you could convieniently pick up at your local library.) Make it so spirituality in on ones self to search for, and not to be taught. Be done with all manmade dogma.

[Horse with no Name]

40. The 10 commandments of my ideal religion

1. Thou shalt practice tolerance to those who feel differently than you.

2. Thou wilt have a choice of whom to love. I ask that you love faithfully, kindly, and respectfully.

3. Thou art to take responsibility for the weak, the sick, the very young and the very old.

4. Love one another.

5. Thou shalt learn to practice a frugal life-with money as well as resources.

6. Teach your children how to love.

7. Thou wilt not be denied access to treatment from your ailments.

8. Thou wilt not mount up in greed and attack your world neighbors for their resources because you cannot be frugal with your own.

9. Thou wilt choose your own destiny. You will make your own choices and not be hindered by your brother nor forced to make his choices your choices.

10. Peace.

[johnaries]

43. I already created mine.

Inspired mostly by Taoism, but I found that most Religions have more in common than they have differences.

My first tenet is that we are mere mortals limited by our senses and our mind's ability to comprehend. The Great Mystery - whether you want to call it God, Goddess, Allah, the Tao, or the Laws of Physics - are so beyond our understandings that it is impossible for any of us to fully understand Him/Her/It.

My second tenet is that everyone is different, with different experiences, points of reference, and different understandings. Therefore everyone has different needs, including different spiritual needs. If Christianity or Islam fulfills your needs, fine! If not, then you should look at the Universe around you and within you and find what does fulfill your needs.

There is no sin. Virtue is doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do. The opposite of Virtue is performing Virtuous Acts for the sake of appearing Virtuous.

The Great Mystery is not Just, Vengeful, Merciful, etc. These are all Human emotions and concepts. However, "Love", just like the Great Mystery, cannot be fully explained, defined, or even fully understood by most humans, although humans recognize it when they feel it.

Therefore the Great Mystery may, indeed, be Love.

I have more, but I won't bore all of you anymore.

[stellanoir]

44. How about

an all inclusive spirituality that embodies tolerance and has the singular goal of expression of universal love and divine mending? One that merely enforces the basic tenets of most religions that say, "don't kill, don't torture, revere all of God's creations, and help those less fortunate than oneself whenever one can. "

How silly is that?

Yes, I am a deluded optimist.

That's because I agree with the astrophysicists who believe that the primary chemical componant at the center of the universe is nitrous oxide, (aka laughing gas).

[ultraist]

62. That would be preferable

As long as "God" was defined as a "Greater Power," which is not necessarily a supernatural being.

As others have mentioned, "God" is defined individually; it could be the universe as a whole or the laws of physics, or whatever that individual so chooses.

[Discord]

116. Just change it to the god form instead of the God form.

and your in business...

:D

[jonnyblitz]

49. we have too many already. lets use reason and logic instead

no more religions! come out of the sky and back down to earth! ENOUGH already. :P

[Discord]

55. See # 39. =)

[lastliberalintexas]

57. Why on earth?

There are far too many already.

[ultraist]

67. Maybe it's not such a bad idea

A religion that does not rely on supernatural beings or ancient dogma. ;)

[Speck Tater]

61. We already have two that meet these criteria...

Buddhism and Unitarianism.

When Buddha was asked if God existed he replied (roughly translated) "I don't know. Does it matter?"

[DemExpat]

64. Spiritual or Religious Humanism would be a good start imo.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/humanism.htm

Religious Humanism is similar to secular humanism, except that it is practiced in a religious setting with fellowship and rituals, as in Ethical Culture Societies, congregations associated with the Society for Humanistic Judaism and groups affiliated with the Unitarian Universalist Association.

DemEx

[ultraist]

79. Excellent suggestion! Why not Philosophical Humanism?

excerpts:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/humanism.htm

Philosophical Humanism is a philosophy centered upon the needs and interests of people.

The most widely used meaning of the word religion is probably the belief that a God or Gods exist who created the world, who is/are to be worshipped, and who is/are responsible for creating ethical and behavioral codes. In that context, Humanism is definitely not a religion, and would not be perceived as one by many of its followers. Humanists do not generally believe in a supreme deity or deities, demons, ghosts, angels, in a supernatural world, in heaven and hell, or in a divinely ordained ethical code for humans to follow. Most would regard God as a creation of mankind rather than the reverse.

[earth mom]

78. The Golden Rule

is what I try to live by and hence my user name.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I feel that it gets to the heart of the matter whatever your beliefs are.

What bothers me about the presence of so much of the Christian religion in this country today is that if the tables were turned and non believers were spouting their beliefs at every turn there would be an incredible backlash from people of the Christian faith as well as other faiths. Why is it so surprising that there is a backlash by non believers that is showing it's face here on DU? The founding fathers of this country intended to keep religion separate-they had the common sense and foresight to do so. Too bad we're all too stubborn and egotistical to see how fruitless any discussion of religion is and that the blatant flaunting of it just causes more problems then any religious belief could ever solve.

Bottom Line? People don't like being preached to-no matter what belief or non belief.

So do unto others as you would have them do unto you-don't preach to them.

Simple as that.

[LeftHander]

80. Gee Will....Unitarian Universalism....

Why reinvent the wheel....?

[Discord]

84. Secular Humanitarianism crossed with Unitarian Universalism

somewhere in there maybe.

Unitarianism is still based on the belief of some form of supernatural being. Its just where people of multiple forms of religion, as well as agnostics, to find some common ground. Does not include the seculars.

Likewise, Secular Humanitarianism does not include those who believe in ANY supernatural beings.

[ultraist]

99. Sounds good. The right to choose to believe in a god or not choose

[cilla4progress]

165. Wrong!

Does include/welcome seculars - humanists and atheists as well. All will feel equally comfortable/uncomfortable, as diverse "belief systems" are explored and experienced on any given Sunday.

[Junkdrawer]

130. You took the words right out of my mouth...

:thumbsup:

[mattclearing]

86. Unitarian Universalism is the only "religion" I can live with.

It basically holds that the faiths of the world (or lacks thereof) have more in common than they do in conflict, and that people generally want a place where they can commune with their fellow people, sing songs and feel like a part of something greater than themselves.

It's church without dogma, God without rules.

It preaches tolerance as the only real virtue.

Its peaceful existence gives me hope for humanity.

[Chicago Democrat]

87. Religion of Truth!

Truth is the only thing that matters The Truth will set us all free The Truth makes all things plain The Truth does not lie The Truth is out there




TRUTH=GOD

TRUE LOVE IS TRUTH

[Mojorabbit]

89. 1)Everyone and everything has

within it the spark of divinity. Treat them/it as so.
2)There are thousands of creation myths. They are all true.
3) The golden rule

Nothing else is needed.

[scarletwoman]

93. Wonderful! I totally agree, nothing else is needed.

:toast:

sw

[Zhade]

90. Cool, we can see this ancient process of making-shit-up in action!

Kick for an interesting discussion!

[mvd]

91. I think my ideal religion would have a few broad points

- Faith in God as a force; force is neither male nor female

- An afterlife where we get together again with friends/family/pets, and live eternally in harmony

- Catholic morals when it comes to crime, the poor, and war - different doctrine on social issues. Sinners may be reborn to learn lessons

- Atheists will go to heaven too; our religion must be tolerant

- Use Jesus's teachings when they contradict the Bible; the Bible is just a guide

- Church is not mandatory; allow people to form their own relationships with God

Generally, allow for more differences in opinion than many current religions have - after the basic principles. You can tell I'm more of a spiritual person.

[Discord]

101. wow. thanks for throwing us athiests a bone...

I also thought the goal of this thread was to find a commonality for all, not your ideal religion. I also have issue with the use of the term "catholic morals". Like theres a corner on the market of morals.

[mvd]

104. No, it's one that should be open to all

Not one that everyone can believe in. That would be impossible.

[Discord]

110. thats the goal of the thread.

In general, all religions are open to all. (some exceptions of course)

This thread was to find the commonality of all religions and non-religious alike.

[mvd]

112. My ideas were towards this goal.

You can't get everyone to believe something. Just like you can't please everyone all of the time.

[Discord]

117. possibly, but the second you add a supernatural entity

you lose all those of non-religious nature. While if termed properly, secular basis can appeal to religious persons.

[mvd]

121. Not necessarily

I said a force. Not a God as most religions have now. Disagree all you want, but my ideas are legit for the purposes of this board.

[Discord]

141. Reread your original post again...

and try to tell me again you don't have specific refrences to christianity...

And your only exemption you added with reguards to your "force" theory, was regards to gender, but you used the proper name form of God. Not god.

Afterlife with loved ones... (heaven)

"Catholic morals"

Specific refrence to Jesus and the Bible..

Your taking Christianity/Catholisism and just made a minor tweak.

[Zhade]

162. Yes, necessarily.

- Faith in God as a force; force is neither male nor female

Atheists don't believe in any gods, even as forces.


- An afterlife where we get together again with friends/family/pets, and live eternally in harmony

Most atheists don't believe in an afterlife.


- Catholic morals when it comes to crime, the poor, and war - different doctrine on social issues. Sinners may be reborn to learn lessons

Atheists don't accept "Catholic" or any other religion's morals, because we don't need religion for morality. Atheists also do not believe in "sinners" or being "reborn".


- Atheists will go to heaven too; our religion must be tolerant

Atheists don't believe in heaven.


- Use Jesus's teachings when they contradict the Bible; the Bible is just a guide

Many atheists haven't seen compelling independent evidence that Jesus even existed (though most of his alleged teachings are pretty decent). Atheists DEFINITELY don't take the bible as anything but mythic literature, and do not use the bible as a guide.


- Church is not mandatory; allow people to form their own relationships with God

Again, atheists do not believe in any gods.


Your list is hardly inclusive in the spirit in which Will began this thread.

[mvd]

176. But really, athiests would not believe in any true religion

My post's intent was to get as close as we can with an actual religion. Perhaps through these ideas, athiests may see my points better than through what goes on now.

Now individual moral ideas could be recognized by anyone. But what many are describing is more like a general philosophy than a religion.

[Zhade]

177. I assume you mean "true religion"...

...in the sense of "representative of religion", not "representative of factual reality".

Fact is, your points don't meet Will's suggestion and are exclusive to those who are able to believe in gods. Some of us are unable to believe as such, and are thus left out.

[mvd]

180. See my post below

What is being described is more of principles to follow in life than a religion.

[Zhade]

181. Well, atheists simply will never follow a supernatural religion.

We CAN'T. We're unable to believe in gods.

[mvd]

182. I certainly respect that.

I will post some general principles of life that we can all follow, though I don't really consider this a religion:

- Respect each other; one hungry person is too many

- Nature is magical in its beauty; we should take care of it

- A sin is something that hurts society

- If you do your best in life, you should feel fulfilled

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Laurab]

171. Moderators aren't supposed to post?

Not being sarcastic, it's an actual question.

I've been reading the whole thread, and it seems like a high percentage of the posts are from atheists', or agnostics at least. It doesn't bother me any, although I consider myself a Christian, or at least, a believer in God - certainly not a christian in any of the extremest forms, just basically a believer and a "recovering" catholic. I don't like any form of organized religion.

Anyway, I don't mind if others think differently, and it would seem to me that moderators should be welcome to post, as well, or why would they be here on DU?

I was under the impression they were volunteers and members of DU, and obviously they have opinions - am I wrong?

[Zhade]

178. No, of course they are are welcome to post.

I wasn't saying they couldn't.

[Laurab]

184. Thanks! n/t

[mvd]

179. Not true at all

As someone pointed out, my post was mearly an opinion, and not one that disregarded the opinions of atheists at that. In fact, there are many ideas here from atheists that I like. But what is being described would change the definition of what religion is. Religion in its loosest form requires some form of faith. What I was trying to do is find a true religion that could include as many as possible.

[Zhade]

188. I simply felt uncomfortable.

Probably was dumb to even post the sentiment, though I hardly think it qualified as a personal attack worth deleting (I know you did not delete it).

[mopaul]

92. Mo ism

in which me, mo is the ruling king and overlord of all souls the world over, obeying my every depravity and vice, willing thralls of my glorious stupenditude.

but, it probably won't happen.

[Bluebear]

95. What the hell, I'll sign up

Can I be Prime Minister of depravity?

[Zhade]

163. I am interested in your cult and would like to sign up for the newsletter.

May I tithe frequently? :P

[mopaul]

185. yes, give up your worldly material possesions & daughters unto MO

tithe quickly, generously and often and go thou now away, blessed.

[KittyWampus]

96. Reality Proceeds From Unity.

Everything is made up of the Original Undivided Mind.

Everything exists within our Collective Mind

Since we are all essentially One, to harm another is to harm ourselves.

[Discord]

102. well worded and inclusive. Bravo!

[WillyT]

98. If We're Gonna Have A God... She\He Shouldn't Know The Future...

Otherwise... what the hell's the point?

:evilgrin:

[Discord]

103. no gods... at that point it already becomes exclusive

rather than inclusive.

[mondo joe]

105. Canon #2: Our religion is not the one true religion.

Respect those who don't share your faith as much as those who do.

[simcha_6]

106. Here's my suggestion

We acknowledge that there is some greater force in the universe. We just don't assume to know what it is.

God? Great. Goddess? Excellent. Gods? No problem. Science, dumb luck, a creative force? Awesome.

No speculation as to our own part within the grand design.

You can't get more inclusive than that.

[H2O Man]

107. "I have an ancient Indian crucifix

around my neck,
my chest is hard and brown.
Lying on stained, wretched sheets with a bleeding virgin,
we could plan a murder
Or start a religion.
-- James Douglas Morrison; "Stoned Immaculate"

I would like music and poetry. Dancing around fires in the night. Things like that.

[CJCRANE]

109. Let's not.

I like what Krishnamurti did when he became leader of Order of the Star. He closed it down.

Here's a quote:

"I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect."

Full text:

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/star.htm

[JohnOneillsMemory]

111. WPitt is trying to keep DU from going negative on religion this week.

Because we do say things that get weaponized against us in the corporate media lie factory.

"Hey kids, let's play a positive game and say nice things!" So we don't get sand-bagged by Faux and the NYT again.

Or someone might start pointing out that the Vatican was the southern Europe command for the OSS/CIA/Nazi collaboration which supported Mussolini's fascism in the 1930s, the fascist terrorist group called 'P2,' the terror campaign called Operation Gladio where ex-Nazis used left-behind US weapons to prevent Communist inroads in post-war Europe, and helped Nazis escape via 'rat-lines' to the USA and South America where they still do their Nazi thing, especially in the GOP.


"But let's not dwell on the past, let's think of the future!"

Secular Humanism= Bill of Rights+Geneva Conventions+Jesus' Beatitudes

[ultraist]

113. except anti gays and anti women's right is not the past

;)

[JohnOneillsMemory]

118. Amen! (sorry, women.) Sinead O'Connor was right...

to tear up that photo on Saturday Night Live.

Seriously, you'd think men in dresses would be a little more sympathetic to women.

oops. I forgot. J. Edgar Hoover wasn't, either.

"Conductor, may I have a transfer out of the medieval ages, please?"

[anarchy1999]

146. Shame on you, how dare you bring up some real history?

They did what, where? OMG! You are one of those tin-foiled conspiracy nuts, aren't you?

Sarcasm off now, I apoloqize.

Need any tin foil?

[Zhade]

164. Bad JOM! BAD! How could you bring up the truth like this?

What do you want to do, reveal reality to people?

[mmonk]

115. So

any concensus?

[chlamor]

119. Let's create an anti-movement movement instead

and move against ourselves. We must then immediately disband.

[Behind the Aegis]

120. Central Tenet

"You rights endeth where my nose begineth."

[usregimechange]

122. Personally Will I think we have enough of them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

187. Or

Have had ENOUGH of them. :evilgrin:

[marions ghost]

123. As the Pope was dying...

I did wonder if somehow spiritual leaders do have a place in this scary world, especially in times of trouble. Some teachers seem to have great wisdom and the willingness to share it without undue reward. The problem lies in all these laws and edicts that control people's lives, and the distortions of basic principles. For that reason I could never be a Catholic, as much as I admire some of the good works of Catholic assistance organizations. I tend to like all the trappings of religions--the art, the music, (some of) the rituals and writings. But meditating alone on a rock is good too.

We have all seen too much exploitation in the name of religion-- Fundies of various kinds, Bagwan Shree Rajneesh, Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, "Reverend" Moon, etc.etc An allergic reaction to organized religion is only sane in Bizarroworld. But I wonder--is there room for a different approach to religion, or is it really all the same old stuff, to be strongly rejected in the name of Secular Humanism? Questions of Deism seem irrelevant--do the forces of the Universe need to be named in order to feel connected with them? We often follow musicians, writers, teachers, artists, actors, sports stars, etc. with religious fervor. Peak experiences tend to be felt as religious experiences. Praying, or focusing on the problem, or willing the best outcome to occur (whatever you want to call it) seems to be a natural human tendency.

I think Will's question is interesting in it's suggestion to imagine something different, or better forms more appropriate to the times, without the obvious pitfalls anyway. Those who are completely dissatisfied with What Is, but also have a need for emotional connections that can only be defined as spiritual, may be inclined to tackle the question. If there was a new religion that really spoke to me, I might join. Til then, it's go it alone. But I don't feel I'm not "spiritually" inclined, quite the opposite. I want there to be a stairway to heaven somewhere.

[KittyWampus]

135. The Forces Of The Universe Do Need To Be "Named", IMO.

To understand and manipulate things we need to measure.

That's what Humans do, measure things. And this requires Names. :)

[Discord]

142. Its called science. but on your concept. I disagree.

We tend to humanize unknown variables to try to understand them.
We know about being human, therefor we interpet them as humanistic.
They don't need any names, or identities, or followers, or leaders, or prayers, or higher purpose. WE add those as humans.

[Warren DeMontague]

148. Reminds me of a Zen Joke

The student comes running in to see the master...

"Master! Master! I understand! That Rock over there.. is inside my head!"

The Master replies:

"You must have a very big head... to hold a rock that size"

My opinion:

Names, in fact all semantic abstractions, are useful because the human manipulation of symbols allows us to understand our environment in a far deeper way than most of our other primate relatives. However, people have an uncanny knack for confusing the symbol or name with the concept or unnameable reality it is meant to represent. Sort of like trying to vacation on a map of Pismo Beach or eat the menu at your favorite restaurant. (For example, this sort of confusion is precisely why otherwise sensible people are willing to trash the first amendment to ban the burning of a flag)

"Names" are useful but they can also be a crutch or a limiting factor when attempting to fathom the infinite.

[Warren DeMontague]

169. Oh, and no.

"We" don't "need" names.

[yvr girl]

124. We're never going to agree on the "Whys" but maybe the "Hows"

How should people behave.

People have intrinsic value - all people and life is precious. As much as possible, we should strive to improve the human condition.

All people are created equal.

The resources of the world are finite, everything is ours to use, but also protect.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

There are two basic kinds of sins. The first one is doing something wrong - lying, cheating, stealing, hurting someone etc. The second is failure to do what is right - going against your conscience, failure to do the right thing etc.

Keep short accounts with people. Freely offer forgiveness. Be quick to say your sorry and make amends.

There are consequences for bad behaviour, but forgiveness is available. People are responsible for their decisions.

[VelmaD]

125. I have a personal favorite for the definition of sin...

from a book about faith and religion from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. All sins start with treating people like things. I think it encapsulates it pretty nicely.

[evlbstrd]

131. Zappa proposed one...

The Church of American Secular Humanism--
CASH

[spanone]

132. Please, we don't need another religion. Imagine....

[autorank]

133. Booty-ism -- The Hip-Hop Religion for Hep Cats!

What is Booty-ism?

Dogma: The picture says it all!


Or for our Middle East Brothers, Sheik Yerbouti


High Priest: The Mac Daddy


Ritual: Private Dance Party, After Hours, Sunday 1AM - 4AM

Dress: Hot Pants, Women
Pimp Attire, Men

ALL HAIL THE MAC DADDY!!! LET THE PARTY BEGIN!

[Arugula Latte]

138. Lyrics to "Building a Religion" by Cake

We are building a religion
We are building it bigger
We are widening the corridors
And adding more lanes

We are building a religion
A limited edition
We are now accepting callers
For the pendant key chains

To resist it is useless
It is useless to resist it
His cigarette is burning
But he never seems to ash

He is grooming his poodle
He is living comfort eagle
You can meet at his location
But you better come with cash

Now his hat is on backwards
He can show you his tatoos
He is in the music business
He is calling you "dude!"

Now today is tomorrow
And tomorrow today
And yesterday is weaving in and out

And the filthy white lines
That the airplane leaves behind
Are drifting right in front
Of the waining of the moon

He is handling the money
He�s serving the food
He knows about your party
He is calling you "dude!"

Now do you believe
In the one big sign
The doublewide shine
On the bootheels of your prime

Doesn�t matter if you�re skinny
Doesn�t matter if you�re fat
You can dress up like a sultan
In your onion head hat

We are building a religion
We are making a brand
We�re the only ones to turn to
When your castles turn to sand

Take a bite of this apple
Mr. corporate events
Take a walk through the jungle
Of cardboard shanties and tents

Some people drink pepsi
Some people drink coke
The wacky morning dj
Says domocracy�s a joke

He says now do you believe
In the one big song
He�s now accepting callers
Who would like to sing along

She says, do you believe
In the one true edge
By fastening your safety belts
And stepping towards the ledge

He is handling the money
He is serving the food
He is now accepting callers
He is calling me "dude!"

Now do you believe
In the one big sign
The doublewide shine
On the bootheels of your prime

There�s no need to ask directions
If you ever lose your mind
We�re behind you
We�re behind you
And let us please remind you
We can send a car to find you
If you ever lose your way

We are building a religion

We are building it bigger

We are building

A religion

A limited

Edition

[kineneb]

140. Try these ideas on for size:

From Zoroastrianism:
Think good thoughts, say good words, do good deeds.

From Rotary International, the 4-Way Test:

1. Is it the Truth?
2. Is it Fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build Goodwill and better Friendships?
4. Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

And finally, from Buddhism:
Do no harm.

Do we really need anything more?

[mandyky]

143. "organized religion" is the problem

why create another one?

The minute one starts writing stuff down in a book, one also starts to "defend" the writing. I'd just encourage people to assess their spiritual beliefs and to live what they supposedly believe.

Personally I am a smorgasbord spirituality person - I read about many spiritual paths and pick and choose the ones that make sense and hopefully prevent me from being a hypocrit.

The best "10 commandments" I've found are the 10 rules for being human from PEELING THE SWEET ONION by Martin Segal.

[rman]

145. Why frame it as pro-religion vs anti-religion?

Why not frame it as religion vs fake religion (which would be RW fundies created by neocons' and corporatists' deception)?

By far most a the so called relgion bashing i see hee on DU is about critisizing the fake profets and their fundamentalist followers - now what'd be wrong with that?

[Discord]

153. because we are being kind and only targeting the

fundamentalists. Most non-religious persons would prefer no religion at all, but don't want to get into the enormous flamewars that would erupt.

[Warren DeMontague]

147. The way that can be spoken is not the true way.

Tenets? Gospels?

Try to use computer software that is four years old. It's already clunky. You want to try to come up with rigid rules for how to think that are going to last thousands? Maybe meta-tenets, or meta-gospels (or, if you will, anti-gospels), if centering around anything, maybe around how people should work things out for themselves, endeavour to use their own lives and minds as the lens through which to view the mystery of existence--- as opposed to taking other people's word, dogma, or interpretation for it..

Thou Shalt Think For Thine Own Self, and Revise The Internal Semantic Mental Maps You Use To Describe The Territory of External Reality As New Information Becomes Available--- and as often as possible..(And whatever you do, don't confuse the two!)

Any time you find yourself buying too much into your own Belief System, you should try to remember what the initials of those words are.

[bling bling]

150. Your subject line sounds like the Tao Te Ching.

If there's a philosophy better than that which is found in the Tao I've yet to find it.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. Yep. When it comes to philosophy, the shortest books are often the best.

I agree with you 100%.

[entanglement]

152. Great! I'll join when you start one

but you'll have to make me a Cardinal.

:-)

[understandinglife]

155. A "1 commandment" religion: Thou shalt not lie. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[noamnety]

156. some ideas for the new religion

These refer to God and Christ but I'll get to that in a minute. Bear with me.

1. Water, air, soil, minerals, energy resources, plants, animal life, and space are to be valued and conserved because they are God's creation and not solely because they are useful to human beings.

2. Let us recognize the responsibility of the church and its members to place a high priority on changes in economic, political, social, and technological lifestyles to support a more ecologically equitable and sustainable world leading to a higher quality of life for all of God's creation.

3. We support policies that protect the food supply and that ensure the public’s right to know the content of the foods they are eating. We call for rigorous inspections and controls on the biological safety of all foodstuffs intended for human consumption. We urge independent testing for chemical residues in food, and the removal from the market of foods contaminated with potentially hazardous levels of pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides; drug residues from animal antibiotics, steroids, or hormones; contaminants due to pollution that are carried by air, soil, or water from incinerator plants or other industrial operations. We call for clear labeling of all processed or altered foods, with premarket safety testing required. We oppose weakening the standards for organic foods. We call for policies that encourage and support a gradual transition to sustainable and organic agriculture.

4. We encourage the preservation of all animal species including those threatened with extinction.

5. We affirm the integrity of single persons, and we reject all social practices that discriminate or social attitudes that are prejudicial against persons because they are single.

6. We reject the erroneous notion that one gender is superior to another, that one gender must strive against another, and that members of one gender may receive love, power and esteem only at the expense of another. We especially reject the idea that God made individuals as incomplete fragments, made whole only in union with another.

7. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures.

8. We encourage the use of medical technologies to provide palliative care at the end of life when life-sustaining treatments no longer support the goals of life, and when they have reached their limits. There is no moral or religious obligation to use these when they impose undue burdens or only extend the process of dying. Dying persons and their families are free to discontinue treatments when they cease to be of benefit to the patient.

9. We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ. We therefore reject war as an instrument of national foreign policy, to be employed only as a last resort in the prevention of such evils as genocide, brutal suppression of human rights, and unprovoked international aggression. We insist that the first moral duty of all nations is to resolve by peaceful means every dispute that arises between or among them; that human values must outweigh military claims as governments determine their priorities; that the militarization of society must be challenged and stopped; that the manufacture, sale, and deployment of armaments must be reduced and controlled; and that the production, possession, or use of nuclear weapons be condemned. Consequently, we endorse general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.


I could keep going, but I'll stop there, in the interests of post length. The reason I left the God references in, rather than changing them to something more inclusive of atheists, was so I could point out that everything there is cut and pasted directly from the main website of the church that Bush claims to be a member of.

[NoPasaran]

157. Canon # 1 ver 2.0

Dog is a myth created by humans to explain things they do not understand.

[ReadTomPaine]

158. Hey.. L. Ron Hubbard rode the "Make a religion" game right to the end...

.. and he did quite well didn't he?

"The way to make money is to start your own religion." (L. Ron Hubbard, 1954)

RTP

[cilla4progress]

166. One-line religion

I practice with Unitarians, for the sharing and education of it.

My religion consists of one tenet: WE ARE ALL CONNECTED.

I believe this encompasses the best of everything written above, and most simply.

Though I do not often succeed, I try to live by this one "commandment."

[RetroLounge]

167. You have to wear an Onion Skin Cap and call me Dude

That is all...

RL

[Mich Otter]

170. A religion for humans

If you start, as I do, with the assumption that there are no real gods, only imaginary ones, the next line of thought is: OK, what do we want to accomplish? In some sense, making heaven happen on Earth would be an ideal goal.
I am going to be very brief describing an outline.
I would focus a religion on four points; self, family, community, and the universe.
We all need to take care of self first. We need health and a healthy sense of who we are. Once we are comfortable within our own skins we can help others.
Family, (and this includes those you choose to consider family), is your next level for well being. You help them and, in return, they help you get through life.
Community includes your governmental levels as well as those whom you associate with otherwise, such as political organizations, sports groups, etc.
Taking care of the Earth and the environment is really taking care of the others also. Your health benefits, as well as everyone Else's.
And if someday some real god shows up to see how we are doing, the only thing that god might not like is we haven't erected statues to honor the god. Otherwise, I suspect the god would be quite pleased with the choices we made.

[kerrygoddess]

174. Ever heard of "A Course In Miracles"?

It's basic Christianity without quilt and sin. (That's an old synopsis of it from Marianne Williamson, long time teacher of the Course)

[TWiley]

186. I knew some folks who got into that heavy about a decade ago.

They started getting real goofy after a couple years of it. After about 8 years, the group folded up. I have seen a few of the originators on separate occasions, and they seem to be crazy as hell where they started out fairly normal.

All 3 displayed a profound lack of emotional stability, and one was delving into some type of "inner child" issues as he believed that he was the victim of a satanic sex ring when he was a child. He has no clear memory of it, only suspicions. Evidently, he has begun a type of regression therapy in an attempt to remember the "truth".

The other two believe that they can "hear" the voice of God expressing his intent for their lives, and practice "channeling" where they go into a trance and another person writes down the things they say as they are divinely inspired.

The main proponent was a fella who worked as an "addiction therapist" until the laws changed and state credentials were needed to be in the business. He started a class in the "Course in Miracles" and then opened a practice to treat "codependency" and "Grief / Shame" therapy which required no medical credentials.

[Skittles]

175. no thanks

I am sick of relgion in every shape or form - absolutely SICK of it

[shockra]

183. The Vitamin C Religion

This "vitamin" is crucial for dealing with stress, healing wounds and maintaining mental health. More properly called a hormone, since virtually every animal has the ability to manufacture it in their liver -- except (ironically enough) man -- who lives with the most stress of all. Guinea pigs and a few primates aren't able to make ascorbic acid either, but at least the primates live where they can eat fruit off the trees all day.

When man migrated above the equator he compounded the problem by putting himself out of reach of the primary sources, needed desperately by our brains and adrenal glands.

If we had evangelicals pushing vitamin C every time they witnessed someone under stress, or causing someone stress, it would be a better world. Every time you're under emotional stress, you deplete your stores of vitamin C. Every time you are exposed to pollutants, smoke a cigarette (depletes 45 mgs per cig) take an antibiotic or birth control pill, you deplete your stores of this stress-relieving, wound-healing antioxidant.

There would be a lot less cancer in humans, lower cholesterol, less back problems from that pesky task of walking upright (C relieves lumbar problems), better mental health, and as a consequence, less ability for the powers-that-be to rule people through fear by causing them stress -- because they'd be far better equipped to deal with it.

Since at least the 70's many in the medical community have tried to scare people away from vitamins, including C, by saying they're "too dangerous" (even though no one has ever died from too many vitamins, unlike drugs) because health is not conducive to medical profits. And these days, it's certainly not conducive to pharmaceutical profits.

Yes, Linus Pauling should be the patron saint of a Vitamin C religion. We might also have a lot less hostility towards other animals in general, whom we envy for being able to deal with stress by merely releasing a hormone in needed amounts -- when we can't. Yeah, we'd probably take it out a lot less on the animal kingdom. Less torture, abuse, and eating of same when we can't acquire C through eating them anyway. Nor can we fix our flaw by siring offspring who create vitamin C through practicing bestiality. No. Now that we are aware it exists and we can take it in large amounts in a pill that only costs pennies one of mankind's most crippling flaws can be remedied. And should be fully utilized to create a more peaceful, and much more mentally healthy world.

[leesa]

191. The Universalist Unitarians have already done this.

[underpants]

192. Make sure you work liquor into the ceremony

Wine is for wussies. Get some liquor in there and I'll pony up in the offering tray.

:bounce: :+ :beer: :bounce: :spray: