Whoopi: If Kerry had put his nuts on the table we would have won

[Bluebear]

She is guesting on Maher tonight and she speaks her mind. "The 'deballing' of the Democratic party...It was in our hands, it was in our control. I have the Democrats stuck in my behind and I'm mad. None of them said 'In this country you CAN have a dissenting opionion." My other favorite: With the Bush adminstration "there's always some new shit we didn't know about."

[yorkiemommie1]

1. i sure loved her show

she managed to slam * every episode!

[Bluebear]

3. Catch the Maher rerun if you didn't see it tonight

I think you will like her fire.

[politicasista]

2. Whoopi is usually funny.

Tavis Smiley trashed Kerry after he got the nod on Real Time too.

[dsc]

4. She had more right than most to say this

She lost her job for something she said in support of Kerry while he and our party sat on its hands.

[JI7]

6. she lost that job as spokesperson for slimfast or some other diet thing

because she compared Bush to a vagina except she used the word "pussy", not because she said something in support of Kerry.

[dsc]

7. She was at a Kerry fundraiser

[JI7]

8. i know she was at a Kerry fundraiser

she didn't lose that job because she was there. she lost it because she compared Bush to a vagina using the term "pussy".

[dsc]

11. In the same week Dennis Miller

said that Kerry and Edwards were having an affair at a Republican rally. Only one lost their job because only one was disowned by her party. This is why we lose elections.

[mattclearing]

60. Bingo.

Democrats continually allow themselves to be defined by Republicans and their media co-horts.

[Syrinx]

13. to be picky

She didn't compare him to a vagina. She compared him to a "pussy", which is slang for, um, different things, depending on context. :hi:

[jdj]

18. I thought it was the "a bush, a dick, and a colon" joke

which is an old joke of hers.

I bet they got pressured by fat freeps.

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. I Thought The Offending Joke Went Along The Lines Of

"My bush could be a better president than that Bush."

or something like that

[BillZBubb]

5. I agree with her completely.

Kerry was supposed to be a battler. He turned out to be mashed potatoes. Whoopi is right on the money.

[BamaGirl]

9. Omg I loved it lol

Is Whoopi the only one who is going to tell it like it is? The "deballing" of the Democratic Party indeed.

[AlCzervik]

10. It was a good show tonight and this week proved

his show is better with "Godless liberals" instead of conservatives assholes. Am i right people or am i right and by right i mean correct.

[shanti]

21. alec baldwin was great!

talking about how the cons had their lips superglued to chimpy's ass - he's not afraid to tellitlikeitis!

[Al-CIAda]

12. Yes sir, I agree

If we went out on an attack on the issues. This miserable murderous, lying, sociopathic admistration had so many unexploited weaknesses that were unexplored, one might think the election was thrown. Not fighting/preparing for election fraud after 2000 is INEXCUSABLE.

The Dems suck -panel & show were great.

[Syrinx]

14. it seemd like Bill embarassed Whoopi with his New Rules

And I didn't know it was possible to embarass Whoopi.

[wisteria]

15. Thanks for the warning!

I won't watch it tomorrow night. I am tired of hearing people blame John Kerry for everything that went wrong this past election and for democratic party's problems. Actually, it was Whoopi's foul Bush bashing at a fundraiser that generated some negative press for Sen. Kerry during the election. IMO her involvement in the campaign had a negative impact on voters who were undecided. I hope she campaigns for a Republican next time.

[Al-CIAda]

16. You go on and keep being meek -and losing.

[XOKCowboy]

17. Exactly...

She got it right when she said that if Kerry had stood up like he did in '72 he would have had more credibility than in this presidential election. She was also right that the current Democrats don't have one ball between them.

[wisteria]

24. Are you suggesting that Kerry should have behaved like Whoopi? n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Depends

If the poster is suggesting that Kerry should have had the courage to say something unpopular with the right-wing and stick to it? Then yes, he should have been like Whoopi.

[mondo joe]

51. Kerry should have said "I don't agree with what she said but I defend her

right to say it" to those fuckers.

[Al-CIAda]

61. Who is at fault for not exposing the PNAC?

Who is at fault for not exposing the PNAC?
Who is at fault for not exposing the lies of 9/11?
Who is at fault for not exposing the election fraud?
Who decided to NOT talk about such things?

[Disturbed]

20. Maybe Kerry did win.

It could have been more of a win if Kerry would have responded earlier to the SBLs and not been wishy washy about the Iraq funding $85 Billion vote and saying that he would still have voted the same had he known there were no WMDs. He could have been a stronger candidate in those regards. Osama appearance didn't help him either.

[wisteria]

27. I agree with you on the SBLs and Osama.

However, Kerry was advised incorrectly by his campaign aids that the SBL's were best handled by not responding immediately because the TV ads were only going to run in small media areas. It wasn't until the MSM decided to play the ads over and over again that a decision was made to attack the ads. I have read that Sen. Kerry had wanted to come out fighting these SBLs initially. As for Osama, he had no control over that appearance. All in all, I think Sen. Kerry ran a good campaign given the time he had to put it together. In the end people voted for Bush because they were afraid to change leaders during war time. It makes me ill to think that Bush's preemptive, illegal war and the administrations lies connecting 9/11 to Iraq are what got him reelected.

[flyarm]

38. OHHHH PLEASEEEEEEEEE!! N/T

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Yeah, Kerry screwed the pooch in not going after the SBLs right away.

Whoever was responsible for that little piece of genius obviously never learned anything from the 1992 Clinton campaign.

As for Osama, what good is a boogeyman if he doesn't show up on cue?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wisteria]

29. Who's Joe-mentum?n/t

[BiggJawn]

32. Oh, how quickly they forget....:)

Can't blame you, every time I see that jowly fart on the tube sticking up for Bush....


Joe Liebermann, the guy who was telling everyone that he had "Joe-Mentum!"
The voters told him to tell "Joe-Momma"...

[wisteria]

36. Oh! Noooooo!

Please, he isn't my idea of presidential material. He is too willing to compromise or give in on everything. Surely, you don't think John Kerry's like him!

[BiggJawn]

50. Not Quite.

But I *AM* still waiting for Kerry to spend my money on lawyers to challange Ohio's stolen election.....<crickets chirping>

[Bluebear]

28. Voters who were undecided?

There was never a clearer choice in American history. If an undecided voter voted for Bush because of a comedienne's remarks, they should have stayed home.

[wisteria]

31. You have a point, but everyone was encouraged to vote!

I wonder how many misinformed and clueless people actually did vote this last election.

[anarchy1999]

56. Go smell the blooms of your plant. I'm sorry, it's just a little much.

I usually welcome, but to you I can't. Sorry again.

[PennyK]

19. She did NOT say "pussy"!

What she said was that "Bush" used to be a nice thing, and she didn't want the word to mean someone or something foul. I was there, so I know.
The show was great tonight...Bill said that Bush put his hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution...NOT the other way around!

[Bluebear]

26. I didn't say a word about pussy!

Really, I didn't! :hi:

[omega minimo]

34. Crude BS on TV or DU diffuses power, avoids the real evil we face now

:bounce::bounce:

[Bluebear]

41. never mind

:)

[omega minimo]

42. MLK said-- "I have a Dream"-- NOT "I have a Scrotum."

:pals:

[noiretextatique]

58. mlk is dead., and his dream still isn't a reality

and even though he never used the word pussy, he was still despised by some for what he did say...and still is. at least he had the cahones to say it.

[omega minimo]

69. Dr. King's mission of non-violence was based in Spirit, not cohones

He preached Love and a common Humanity that binds us together. He reached people by appealing to their spirit and aspirations. He talked the talk and walked the walk. He was a leader, not a macho poser. It took immense courage for him to stare down the future he had chosen. He drew on spirit, not bluster.

MLK wasn't killed because he was "despised" for what he said. He was assasinated because he was EFFECTIVE.

Sitting around talking about whose got balls seems self-indulgent and short-sighted.

Crude BS on TV or DU diffuses power, avoids the real evil we face now.

Dr. King spoke Truth with Dignity, spoke Truth to Power and appealed to the general public's highest hopes for humanity. THAT takes real courage.

:bounce::pals::bounce:

[noiretextatique]

75. he knew what he faced, and he acted anyway

the point is whatever that was is lacking in the democratic leadership, with some notable exceptions. crude is not the point...courage is. that's not self-indulgent or short-sighted...it's the truth. i am beginning to depise the use of MLK's name by democrats as much as i do when republicans invoke him.
he was but one man, of many people who stood up to the power structure of the time. and he was is still is despised by some, and not just because he was effective, but because he challenged the status quo. in terms of effectiveness, the more radical movements had a lot to do with forcing change as well. MLK was a lot more palatable to white america than Malcolm X, for example. crude or not, speaking truth to power, seems to be a lost art. instead, it's more important to "package" that truth so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of some mythical middle. what's more offensive: whoopi's comments or the thing she was commenting on? what's more offensive: what she said a that kerry fundraiser, or the reaction to what she said? MLK, if alive today, would n't be treated any differently than whoopi...someone would be fretting that his words might offend the mythical middle.

[omega minimo]

76. Lost arts may save us. Crude is as crude does.

I hear you. I don't buy the weak pandering either.

Crude IS the point if it merely motivates and excites, but misdirects real power and action. The cliched use of "balls" to convey the courage and power that we need also serves to alienate a lot of folks who can really help the cause.

We agree-- courage is the point. IMHO crude is unfocused and pointless.

We don't have time to wave our cojones in the air.

:evilgrin:


curious: are you old enough to remember MLK alive?

[noiretextatique]

77. yes and no

i was about 10 when he died, but i remember the context. i grew up in an area where the black panthers and the noi had more influence than did king, even when he was alive...in south central los angeles. i didn't grow up in the south, but my parents did and most of our family stayed there, so i understood the significance of what was happening there.
however, king wasn't as significant in my community as were the panthers and the noi. they were the ones who were visible and IN the community. my coming to consciousness happened in the context of the black power movement, not the civil rights movement per se.

i actually like the concept of cajones, which i think means far more than the macho "balls" thing, because we all have gonads and of course, some women have been very courageous in speaking truth to this cabal...barbara lee, for example.
whoopi is not for the timid...she uses crudeness to shock. perhaps not the best political strategy, but then again, she is a comedian.
and she is will to pay the price for free speech, crude or otherwise.
and speaking of crudeness, have you seen that clip of bush insulting coretta scott king with his "hanging" comment? or the one of him mocking karla faye tucker? i don't think whoopi can possible be any more crude than that smirking buffoon.

[omega minimo]

80. I was trying to make BlueBear laugh with that "Dream/Scrotum" comment.

RIP MLK. Today is April 4, the anniversary of Martin's death. As children we absorbed the energy of those times, whatever neighborhood we were in. And you're right, the imagery of King was packaged then and would be more so now. The Mythical Middle is a marketing ploy and it sounds like neither of us buy it.

Didn't the Panthers have strong community building actions, for helping people on a basic level, and then become known/packaged for the leather, beret and gun imagery? The abolitionists banded together with the suffragists to leverage human rights for women and African-Americans.

If whiteness were considered the ideal-- representative of highest qualities-- then if someone were considered to "have pale" (the lighter the better, on a scale from dark/bad to light/good) it would send strong signals real quick. So if "got balls" is the standard, and it seperates those that have testes from those that don't, that sends strong signals real quick too. Someone on this thread wrote of approving Kerry "even nutless." Excuse me, but "nutless" pretty much describes 51% of the population. So I appreciate your recognition that women could be included in the "courage" department. Don't forget Barbara Boxer!

If we took the lucidity of MLK and the down on the ground activism of community activists and banded together groups with common concerns and rejected the phony marketing soft pedaling BS and quit alienating women from discussions/leadership, then we got sumthin.

Pandering to the Mythical Middle is a deathtrap. Speaking truth to power, as you said, is a lost art. The leaders you mentioned used clarity of speech as I remember. Being forceful and respectful are not mutually exclusive. More people may come on board that way.

Thanks for telling your story.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. The show ROCKED!

My favorite was Cornel West! HE IS SO DAMN SMART! Why can't he run for office?!?! I ALWAYS love Whoopi! Even Alec was good. It was a LIBERAL hotbed! I loved it!!!

As for Mahr's comment about his swearing in...that should be a fucking bumper sticker!

For those that have sworn off Mahr...YOU MUST WATCH THIS EPISODE!!!

[spindoctor]

30. He keeps them in a jar after surgical removal by the DNC.

The Kerry that ran for President was a different Kerry than the one who won the primaries.
Whoopi is right. He let the GOP frame the debate when he had everything going for him. I don't think it was his own choice though. He only did what he was told to do. Works for Bush.

[wisteria]

35. Say what you will about the past, I don't entirely disagree.

I do however, think Sen. Kerry has demonstrated recently that he is a fighter and is certainly true to his word. I think he deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get from people.

[spindoctor]

37. I don't blame Kerry, I blame the DNC

They would have molded any candidate into the lame display of supposed American values that my fellow spindoctors conceive as the winning ticket.

[LibraLiz1973]

53. With Kerry I say

A day late, a dollar short.

I agreed with Whoopi- the party was "de-balled" during the election.
Mary Beth Cahill was the absolute worst choice for a campaign manager humanly possible. I blame her just as much as Kerry. During the entire SBV controversy he needed to come out SWINGING. It is my belief that had the response been stronger the numbers would have been unstealable.

Putting that aside, JK in all likelihood DID win the election but once again didn't have the balls to fight. He conceded faster than I ever thought he would. IMHO it was a huge mistake.

The fact that he is fighting now doesn't impress me as far as his chances at a run in 2008. I'll be backing someone else. When the chips were down Kerry didn't throw in. He may have learned from his mistakes... but I learned from mine too. I wont vote for someone who said they would fight for us but then didn't. IMHO everything he is doing now is self serving & is only meant to get him elected in 2008.
No chance. Almost no one would be willing to go through SBV Part Deus.

[cybildisobedience]

79. agree with everthing you said

completely.

[QC]

33. When she puts at least a little bit of her considerable fortune

into building a Democratic media machine, then I will respect her.

Otherwise I will think of her the same way I do all the other "Hollywood Liberals" who complain without doing anything to help matters.

Honestly, if Spielberg and Streisand and the others gave as generously as Scaife and Ahmanson, we would have nothing to worry about. But, unfortunately, they don't.

I guess their little places in the Hamptons matter more than American Democracy.

[spindoctor]

40. For some reason she scares the bejeevers out of Republicans

For everything else there is MC.

[DoYouEverWonder]

74. Money wasn't the issue

first of all, Kerry ended up with millions left over. What was that about?

Second, all the money in the world wouldn't buy back control from BushCO of the machines and the MSM.

Until we fix the rigged elections no one can win without the consent of the Powers that Be.

[OneBlueSky]

39. Kerry could have spiked his nuts though the hoop at Boston Garden . . .

and he still wouldn't have won . . . THEY OWN THE VOTING MACHINES! . . . AND THEY COUNT THE VOTES! . . .

duh . . .

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Actually, if he'd spiked his nuts through the hoop at Boston Garden

it would have made it damn harder for them to steal the election. At least right now, the GOP election shennanigans DEPEND on close races. If we ran a candidate who seriously smoked them electorially- to the extent it was obvious, there'd be nothing they could do.

(Granted, once Diebold is in charge of counting ALL the votes, it will be too late)

[LibraLiz1973]

55. This is why Clinton kicked such hard ass

Because he wasn't nutless

[Warren DeMontague]

57. And he didn't let them keep him on defense the whole damn time.

They threw everything at him including the kitchen sink, and he kept smiling- and fighting back.

What was the common current running through the Gore and Kerry campaigns? (aside from widespread election theft around the margins on the part of the GOP, which I am certainly not going to dispute) Whiny fucking strategists- or whoever- timidly tossing their little pinkies into the wind before even taking a leak.. "We can't fight back on the Swift Boat Vets, someone might get angry", "We have to insert more cloying, pandering references to God into your speeches"... Etc. Etc.. Ho Fucking Hum.

Personally, I wish Bill Hicks was still alive. That's the kind of person we need to run.

[George_Bonanza]

43. What Kerry could've done...

1) Since the voters wanted "values", he could've adopted a firm stance against gay marriage and abortion

2) Since voters wanted security and toughness on terrorism, he could've told voters about how he'd personally like to put Osama in a headlock and make him beg for mercy.

3) Since voters didn't care one bit about the economy and thought that tax cuts were the solution to everything, there was nothing he could've done.

I don't buy that "Kerry should've been more extreme" bit. The majority of the people wanted a "good old Texan" in the WH. Just think of all the crap Bush pulled from 2000-2004, and they were willing to let it all go. Then Kerry makes a couple of errors and they're all over him. Just shows that there was an inherent bias in the hearts of the majority of the electorate. They wanted Bush to win all along, and they were willing to forgive him for anything. But Kerry, he had to be Jesus Christ himself before he could even think of shedding the Mass Liberal image.

2004 just wasn't meant to be. Hey, there are dark times in history.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. It's not just Kerry. It's the whole party.

The sad-sack, mealy-mouthed act is getting really fucking old.

I'm reminded of the words to this song:

Valerie, baby, what's the matter with you?
Come on, come on, baby, and tell me true
Hey, now, baby, what did I do?
I shot my dog 'cause he growled at you
Valerie, won't you be good to me?

Valerie, what's the matter with me?
I never, never done you no wrong
I sing the blues nearly all night long
Valerie, what's the matter with me?
You know I'd do anything you say
I can't understand why you tell me
"Please go away"

I'm afraid of the cold, cruel world outside
No Chicken Little running from a falling sky
The only thing troubles me is you
If you leave me, what can I do?
Valerie, won't you be true to me?

You got me down on the knees of my shakin' feet
Can't play the blues, 'cause of you I drop the beat
Valerie, what's your complaint?
I try to be everything I ain't
Valerie, won't you be good to me?
Valerie, won't you be good to me?

That's it. In a nut-shell, as it were.

[shindig]

49. Insert Jerry Garcia solo here...

Righteous!

[CJCRANE]

48. Come on Clarkies...

Whoopi says "None of them said 'In this country you CAN have a dissenting opionion'"...

As I recall there was one Democratic candidate who covered this issue...

[karynnj]

78. Dissenting opinions would be defensible

what got Whoopi in trouble was a repeated not funny or clever vulgar inappropriate joke. No Presidential candidate with a brain in his head would have defended it. Clinton would have used it as a sistah souljah moment, and condemned it himself.

Whoopi actually was probably a negative. Kerry and Edwards had to apologize for her lack of manners. Kerry made mistakes, but not defending this type of crudeness was not one of them.

[robbedvoter]

52. Kerry won even nutless. Maher doesn't get my patronage anymore.

Whoopi lost my respect in 2000 - when hosting the most apolitical Oscar in history after the most blatantly stolen election.
I am not saying she is wrong - she merely misses the point: the election was null and void because of fraud - needed to be redone. Talk of winning and losing five card monty is crazy.

[LibraLiz1973]

54. IMHO Kerry won in numbers

but lost because he didn't fight

[BlueIris]

72. Respectfully, it took you this long? Maher's repugnant. n/t

[Al-CIAda]

59. Of all the Kerry fuck-ups, the biggest was the 'knowing what you know now"

reply. He said YES...Yes on waging a war based on no WMDs, no connection to Al-CIAda, no responsibilty for 9/11.

Talk about mindfucked meaninglesness.
THAT was unbelievably STUPID.

Astonishingly moreso, as Mr.Massmurder was on the ropes at the time, and our 'candidate' HELPED him off the floor.

Fuck you Kerry, fuck you.

[lonestarnot]

62. Yeah that was pretty stupid wasn't it....couldn't believe my ears....

[Warren Stupidity]

64. that was the point in the Kerry campaign

that I knew that I was voting for a truly compromised clown. It didn't stop me from working even harder to get him elected, but I was doing so *hoping*, without any evidence, that he would do the right thing in Iraq instead of wasting more Iraqis and Americans on this fool's errand.


It was the one opportunity to turn the flip-flop thing right over on bush. You know, changing direction when you are going the wrong way is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of leadership. Instead, for once, John 'stayed the course'.

[bush_is_wacko]

63. THAT statement conjures up a very "interesting " mind picture!

Maybe if Whoopi, Oprah, and several others had had put theirs on the table along with a shit load of cash back in 1998 or so we might have had a shot at a legitimate election. It is amazing to me that there seems to be so much BLAME going around and EVERYONE seems to miss the fact that at the very LEAST our last two MAJOR elections have been complete frauds! The truth is more likely the other two "minor" or midterm elections were ALSO fraudulent! Find a way to get rid of the vote thieves and another party might have a chance in this country, but not until then.

When we "elected" Clinton many of us voted on electronic machines too. I have no clue when the last "legitimate" election was in this country. Maybe there never has been one. Seems awful odd to me that many of our leaders are direct descendants of all our old leaders anyway. In over 200 years American's still elect the same government over and over? Not really a very likely scenario IMHO, but who knows, maybe I'm just lost in bitterness!

[Warren Stupidity]

65. So two things have to happen between now and '06.

1) we have to continue to educate people regarding election fraud so that the concept is out there, so that people are aware that there might very well be a real problem, that perhaps it isn't all tinfoil-hat nonsense.

2) we have to get enough people voting against the establishment that the fraud is obvious.

Until that happens I don't see any big upset in the fascist applecart. Even then, all that happens initially is that at last the fascist's cards are on the table. Where it goes from there is anybody's guess. My best guess is that the endgame scenario is a ukranian moment where either the thugs lose their nerve and run away, or a lot of us are dead in the streets.

[bush_is_wacko]

67. About as accurate an assessment of the situation as I can think of! n/t

[seabeyond]

66. but.....he did win. was stolen wink n/t

[Al-CIAda]

68. kick

[Vektor]

70. I, for one...

Would have LOVED to have seen that.
:evilgrin:

[mvd]

71. Yes, I think he needed to fight back more

He showed too much bravado with the building up of his military record and not enough in responding to Bush/Swift Boat Liars and being forceful about his positions. That said, does anyone else think election night 2004 seemed more like a show than anything? It was really weird. I think they were unprepared for Gore really winning in 2000.

[Al-CIAda]

73. A 'show' indeed.

More accurately, a sham.