Prediction: Dean loses big. Bush elected, but impeached.

[FlashHarry]

Or, he'll resign before he's impeached. This is starting to look a whole lot like 1972 to me...

Tell me I'm wrong, please!

[Democat]

1. Impeached by who?

Democrats would need a majority in the Senate and/or House to even think about impeachment.

[FlashHarry]

Resigns, then.

Good point. I guess when you control the whole shooting match, the only thing that can bring you down is the media. I'm guessing Bushco's arrogance will eventually be their downfall.

[UrbScotty]

2. You're wrong!

Dean would WIN big!

[thermodynamic]

5. We thought we'd win big in 2002 as well...

Let's hope he wins big, but anything could happen. :scared:

[Dweezil44]

8. Dean would win big?

Dude, what are you smoking? Dean would be the Dukakis of the new millenium.

I'll put fifty bucks down that Dean won't even get the nomination; I'll put $1,000 that, if nominated, he wouldn't win more than, say, 175 electoral votes (and that is being GENEROUS).

D--

[MercutioATC]

13. I'll take the fifty. When he gets the nomination we'll talk about the gra

.

[ChrisNYC]

14. Why not put $1000 towards your canidate

Instead or running your off about a bunch off bullshit and doing nothing to help anything. Not everyone lives in a red state -- I know ONE person that would consider voting for Bush again, and that's because his only issue is taxes.

[Dweezil44]

27. Chris, I call it how I see it

my money already goes to supporting local democrats -- right now, the national party is too disorganized and has poor management (how in the HELL does a DNC chairman keep his job after the 2002 midterms?) for us to beat the Republicans.

ALl I hear on this board is a lot of wishful thinking and conspiracy theories. We will not win the white house with either one.

D--

[haymaker]

34. Thanks again.

There's a parrot in the room.

[diplomats]

37. Whom do you like in 2004?

[The_Counsel]

40. Since We're "Calling It As We See It"...

...has it ever occurred to you that the REASON the national party is so "disorganized" is because grassroots members like you won't make donations because the national party is disorganized because grassroots members like you won't make donations? (Do you see the circular logic here?)

Take a good look at why so many of our politicians are so beholden to corporate america and "special interest" groups. That's where the REAL money is coming from; and these guys know what side their bread is buttered on. If we would just raise our voices and stop sitting on the sidelines complaining, we might be able to get something done in this country...

BTW, I suspect you'd be more comfortable here, since all you read at DU is "wishful thinking and conspiracy theories"...

[spotbird]

25. What is the problem with Dean?

The media says he is liberal, but he isn't. Why is he unelectable?

[Dweezil44]

29. You answered your own question

The media says it ---- and until they change, that is going to eb the perception. You think the average Joe actually considers campaign positions or records?

D--

[haymaker]

35. You're saying it too.

So is Karl, and Rush and all the others. Hmmmmmmm.

[Classical_Liberal]

36. What democrat won't be labeled as "tooooo Librul"

?

[Cha]

28. Those are repuke talking points,,,,I second the suggestion...

of ChrisNYC's!

[Capn Sunshine]

32. Please find an Escrow company in your area to hold the money

[northernsoul]

41. ok, so who's your guy?

You seem to know all there is to know about Dean's inevitable beat-down. So which horse are you backing?

[haymaker]

3. You're wrong.

How's that?

[The_Counsel]

4. Huh?

"This is starting to look a whole lot like 1972 to me..."

In what way?

Explain in your OWN words, and not the words of DLC and RNC pundits, please...

[barbaraann]

6. You're wrong.

Bush can't say he has a "secret plan" to get out of Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Stop eating those mushrooms

I detect a Carlos Castañeda devotee!

[Kamika]

9. dean wont lose big..

if he loses it will be a close fight

[Dweezil44]

15. Kamika you are dreaming

In a general election against Bush, Dean would make Mondale look like an electoral juggernaut.

D--

[diplomats]

22. I have no idea of Dean would/could win

but he is already moving toward the center. I guess it depends on whether than "ultra-liberal" label sticks, even if it's not remotely true.

[haymaker]

23. Is it just a coincidence that you and

Karl Rove, and Rush, and Hannity, and Hugh Hewwit, and Ann Coulter, and all the boys are spouting the same blastfax talking points?

[Eloriel]

24. Well, that's what the Repugs would like you to believe

because they're absolutely terrified of a grassroots campaign that's exciting people like hasn't happened in decades. Dean is DANGEROUS, and it's to the Repugs and other entrenched powers in Washington.

So, you're either listening to the RNC spin, the DLC spin, some of the Washington pundits who don't know beans (and have been totally wrong about Dean so far), or YOU dont know beans about him and his campaign.

Eloriel

[Capn Sunshine]

33. and you base this on.......

Since the message was sent to the dems in the midterm election (wake UP, losers!) and the popular vote exceeded over half a million votes in the 2000 election AGAINST Bush, and many of the 'centrist" Bush voters are disenchanted with his lurch to neverending War and lurch to the right domestically, WHAT TO YOU BASE THES PRONOUNCEMENTS ON?

Are the liberated Iraqis being given voting status as a 51st state?

Talk about forests and trees.
:nuke:

[corarose]

39. With the Bush Crime Cabal in office maybe your're right

Did Dumbya win the election the legal way last time I don't think so. You might be right about the piece of SHIT winning in massive numbers in 2004 because the black boxes will all be rigged.
How would you feel if you knew that Dumbya got in because he STOLE another election. Would we still be a DEMOCRACY after the next Election?
:dem:

[The_Counsel]

43. Speaking of Dreams...

We're still waiting on your answer as to why you thing Dean will be such a big loser.

A couple of things to consider before you answer:

1. You should answer IN YOUR OWN WORDS, and not the words of some GOP talking point.
   
2. We expected Bush to be a big loser in 2000. He's President now.
   
3. Bill Clinton was supposed to be a loser, too -- until he was elected twice.
   

So tell us, oh sage, why Dean is supposed to be such a big loser?

We're wating...

[mac56]

45. I suspect we'll be waiting for quite a while.

This is a classic RW cut-and-run technique. Lob a stink bomb, then scurry away.

[Touchdown]

44. One more time. ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Who are you gunning for in 2004??? Afraid to tell us it's Chimpy?

[Nazgul35]

52. then you might want to go to his web blog...

and suggest that to all those disenchanted Republicans and moderates who havent been involved in politics for years cause they were turned off....but I guess attracting these voters wont help in the election either....and having 62,000 meetup personel and over 200,000 registered volunteers arnt going to help either with getting out the vote or canvasing...not just for Dean...but for all dem candidates...

it's our turn...and this time WE ARE PISSED!!!!!!

If you are serious about helping the dems oust Bush...I suggest you donate to the ePatriot fund at the DNC..it's to raise cash for the eventual dem nominee...and nothing else...it'll be turned over to the candidate as soon as it is clear who the nominee is....

Just $5.00 a week for 32 weeks from 1.25 dems will raise $200 million....the same amount georgie wants to raise...hmmmmmmmmmm....

[poskonig]

10. Evidence, reasoning?

Or am I supposed to take fear on faith? Everyone realizes Bush has huge advantages against any Democratic candidate, but if we're not willing to fight, we're not willing to win.

**Dean** is the only one who can damage Bush on his only issue, foreign policy. He's been leading the way, getting those approval ratings down. All it is taking is a pair of stones. Other candidates are handicapped by their previous support of the Bush on the war, minus Kucinich.

On the Congress, we aren't getting that back in '04. The way the seats are open, the odds greatly favor the Republicans; the strategy is defense this time around. Too bad the Daschle-Gephardt surrender strategy didn't work in 2002.

[FlashHarry]

12. Just worrying out loud. Sorry.

I'm looking at Bush's eventual $200m unopposed war chest and the media's tarring Dean as "ultra-liberal," even though he's a moderate. Unless Bush fucks this up (which he is actually doing at the moment), I'm guessing Joe Sixpack will vote for the Chimp.

Sorry, folks. I'm just feeling a little depressed about the whole thing. Gimme a few more days to see if the Niger story really does have legs, and I'll probably change my tune.

[poskonig]

30. Think about it this way--

Many of the blue states -- California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, are going for the Democrats no matter what. Given Dean's record, he is well suited to pick up many of the battle ground states. Ohio, won by Bush by a 4% margin, has lost thousands of jobs. West Virginia won't be narrowly lost this time because of the gun issue.

VP candidates help too. If the Democrats put Graham on the ticket, things get REALLY fucked for the GOP, since they have to figure out a way to win without Florida. Clark would give us Arkansas, another state we didn't win in 2000.

[Ripley]

11. Prediction: Dean wins big. Bush NOT pardoned by new Prez.

I was only a twinkle in Daddy's eye in 1972 *yeah right*...but, are you comparing this to Watergate? Don't think people died because of that treachery.

[FlashHarry]

16. More than a few died in Cambodia and Laos.

[Ripley]

17. I said Watergate, not Vietnam.

Sorry, misunderstood your time reference.

[FlashHarry]

26. Had Nixon served out his term, many more would've died.

So Watergate actually does come into play.

[wndycty]

18. For Dean to lose big. . .

. . .he will have to beat Clark in the primary. I guess I just announced who I am supporting. . .if he runs.

[northernsoul]

47. that's mighty big 'IF', wndycty

However, I think that Dean/Clark would be one dyn-o-mite ticket!

:kick:

[deacon]

19. if dean gets all gore voters from last election + one state...

...bush is sent home to talk to cows.

[Nazgul35]

53. actually....

dur to the realocation of electoral votes...the states Bush won picked up about 7-8 electoral votes....so if we pick up one state it better have at least 10 electoral votes...

[jpgray]

20. Too early to tell

But Dean would have to shift his rhetoric violently to win a general election in the current climate. If Bush has a total disaster, then Dean would win handily but so would almost anyone else.

[Jim Sagle]

21. Dean will go through w like crap through a goose.

[Cha]

31. Pate foie gras!

[DeaconBlues]

38. Right now, how can we tell how things will turn out?

With all the scandal in the air these days, who knows what the political landscape will look like in a year's time? The way the idiot's poll numbers are diving right now, Al Sharpton may be able to beat him come Nov 2004.

[JNelson6563]

42. um whatever

Whether you say you can or you can't you're probably right.

I say we can.

Julie

[RogueTrooper]

46. Incendiary Rehtoric, Flash

What is your evidence that Dean would "lose big" out of interest.

Some game plays...

1. The other campaigns will start spending $$$ pointing out that Dean is not a Liberal. I believe this is to strip Dean of the much vaunted "anti-war liberal" vote. Some of the candidates are already doing this. How is this going to be played in the media. If you run to the left of the media view of Left wing Dean, what are you going to say when the media comes to your door?

2. Dean continues, as it. Wins the nomination. Goes to the Big Game. The Republican's are going to paint Dean as a wacked out librul. Fine. They are going to do that to all of the candidates. Dean does not have a "liberal" record. Will this mud stick? Ask yourself this question. Did the same mud stick with Clinton?

3. Dean continues to pick up ex-Republicans and turn them into Democratic activists. I have yet to see any of the other candidates picking up this vote. How does this mean that Dean is going to "lose big".

Or is Dean the only one who can win? We think so.

[Q]

48. Bush* can't get enough votes to be 'elected'...

...but that doesn't mean he won't stay in office.

[johnnybegood]

49. Dean would lose BIG!!!!

That is why he won't get the nomination.

[aquart]

50. What is the basis of your panic, please?

This is the veriest beginning.

We haven't begun primaries.

I have a much more terrifying scenario. Catastrophe and the rest of his party prevents Bush from running again.

We're all faced with a completely new ballgame.

Try to sleep with that one.

[mdmc]

51. Your wrong

YOUr Wrong

[MoonRiver]

54. Ja? And how many would have made that prediction about Bill Clinton

when he ran as an upstart, never heard of before, governor from a nowheresville poor southern state? At least Dean has achieved national AND international name recognition, as well as, respect. This was all due to his brave and fierce condemnation of an illegal and unjustified war against a sovereign state. Do you NOT think that the dots connecting Bush's LIES about the justification for attacking Iraq and Dean's stance against such action won't activate huge numbers of Americans? If not, why?

And, finally, YES I believe you are wrong.

[indigo32]

55. FlashHarry

this is NOT 1972...
and I really think we need to just keep our eye on the prize. Dean is as strong a candidate (stronger in my eyes) as any of the others. Our candidate, no matter whom it ends up being, will come under RNC and media attack. I happen think it's nice really, that Dean doesn't have to answer for a vote for the war (and I suspect the war issue is what concerns you) and then having to call for investigation into the evidence Shrub used. I'm not trying to trash anyone... but you've got to admit it's a vulnerability.

Also we're a long way from the general election season anyway. Lots could change between then and now.

[dansolo]

56. Why would Bush be impeached/resign

if he can manage to survive the current flap and the increasingly poor economy? If the American public can't figure out to get rid of Bush in 2004, then there would be no reason for him to be concerned. Also, if Bush were to win, he will most likely carry Congress with him as well. The only possible way that I could see your scenario happening is if he were to win the election, and then major election fraud was discovered.

[ButterflyBlood]

57. Watergate only broke a month before the '72 election

and didn't get major coverage until '73. The media's already all over this. It won't happen.

[farmboxer]

58. Not With The Republican Manufactured And Programmed

voting machines, the Republican Congress, Supreme Court, the Republican corporate right wing owned mainstream news media! We had a "Fairness Doctrine" when Nixon was President, Republicans got rid of it. This is "The Fourth Reich", Bush is the "Fuhrer" and he was not elected.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

59. Bush won't be impeached

The unnamed Democrat wins in 2004, and Bush is out after one term, just like his dad.

[burr]

60. If we can win Congress, we can win the White House.

If we can't even win the White House,:scared: LOOK OUT AMERICA! :scared: