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Flammable Materials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:55 PM
Original message
Whatever became of John Walker Lindh?
Seems he became as scarce in the news as Jessica Lynch.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. doin time, copped a plea
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And signed a deal not to talk.
Chertoff (soon to be Homeland Security head) was behind that part.
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Ozzie David Hicks is still in you concentration camp at Gitmo!
However our other Ozzie prisoner was released several weeks ago due to lack of evidence! He arrived back in Oz last week with terrible stories about how Americans treat their prisoners. Very sick stuff! Several of our leading Oz legal firms lining up to sue our Bush loving conservative government. Should be lots of fun!

I wouldn't like to be a captured G.I. nowadays. Could get really ugly for them. Those who live by the sword die by the sword!!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. perhaps your legal system has not been corrputed yet.
As far as our GI's, bush does not support the troops so he could care less.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Probably under duress.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. also the austrailian cowboy
was he sent to austrailia or is he still in cuba?
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. He'll be out in 8 months
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Habib is already out
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 11:15 PM by Djinn
David Hicks is still there - there has been no date given for his release as he has actually been charged (dodgy as hell charges but hey it's something after 3 years)

Habib is now back in Australia and still being vilified by our government. Despite the US and AUstralian governments accusing him of having prior knowledge of 9/11 he is a free man because they had ZERO evidence and there was plenty to back up Habib's own story.

America seems to have two types of "terrorists" the AMerican ones are obviously less dangerous and can be dealt with under the normal systems, nasty foreign terrorists get Gitmo and indefinite detention.
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Hicks
is a nutter and while he doesn't deserve Gitmo, he shouldn't be walking the streets either. This is a guy who tried to the IRA and when they told him in no uncertain terms to "fook off" he went and joined the KLA. There's no real ideological link there. he just wanted to be a big man and kill people. Get him out of Guantanamop, bring him back here and get him serious medical help.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. he doesn't need medical help
he does not have not has he ever exhibited any mental health problems (although after three years of detention I suspect that may now be different)

do you know how many Australians fight with irregular forces each year? - during the "unpleasantness" in the former Yugoslavia 3 guys I knew personally (only one of whom had ever actually been there before) upped and left to fight, and there were people from across the globe turning up daily according to them.

some people have always found the adrenalin rush exciting, it's also not illegal to fight with a foreign government (the IRA would have been illegal but I have yet to see any evidence of that claim) and the Taliban WERE the Afghan government.

david hicks was a kid from a boring suburban background who went looking for adventure - he was also easilly led and not particularly intelligent those things meant that it wasn't that hard for people with an agenda to convince him that their brand of Islam was the way to go.

he has committed NO crime under international law, US law or Australian law, he should be released and compensated NOW - were he to move next door to me I'd be more than happy to have him around for a BBQ - he's not mentally ill (atleast pre-Gitmo)
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Personal differences here
People with ethnic or family links to conflicts like that in Ireland or various parts of the former Yugoslavia going "home" to fight I can understand. Joining these often brutal groups (kneecapping kids on the Ardoyne for smoking a joint for example) for "the rush" is another.

You want the adrenalin rush that being a conflict zone provides - become a journalist or an aid worker.

I for one wouldn't want somebody who actively sought out vicious ethnic and sectarian conflict round at mine for a BBQ.

That said, as you say, he hasn't broken any Australian laws that I can think of and most certainly should not be held in the illegal gulag at Guantanamo.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. no difference at all
I completely agree with you - roaming the world searching for a fight aint my idea of a good time BUT it's also NOT illegal (btw not all those I knew who fought in Yugoslavia were Serbian or Croatian)

It's also NOT a sign of mental illness (although even if Hicks was mentally ill that doesn't mean he shouldn't be "walking the streets")
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Really? I thought he got a HARD 20--no TOFGB, no parole n/t
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's serving a 20 year sentence
at a federal prison in Victorville, CA.
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mermaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. And There IS NO SUCH THING As Parole
In the Federal System. You get sentenced to 20, you do 20.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. .
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is the latest on him and this is despicable!!!
Edited on Mon Feb-07-05 11:06 PM by NVMojo

What ever happened to John Walker Lindh?
Posted by: Captain on http://PEJ.org Friday, February 04, 2005 - 02:54 PM

Michael Chertoff, the new Homeland Security nominee, has a lot to answer for: including hiding the U.S.' use of torture and the detention of over 700 immigrants without charges.

by Dave Lindorff, The Nation

Back on Friday, June 12, 2002, the Defense Department had a big problem: Its new policy on torture of captives in the "war on terror" was about to be exposed. John Walker Lindh, the young Californian captured in Afghanistan in December 2001 and touted by John Ashcroft as an "American Taliban," was scheduled to take the stand the following Monday in an evidence suppression hearing regarding a confession he had signed. There he would tell, under oath, about how he signed the document only after being tortured for days by U.S. soldiers.

Federal District Judge T.S. Ellis had already said he was likely to allow Lindh, at trial, to put on the stand military officers and even Guantanamo detainees who were witnesses to or participants in his alleged abuse. The Defense Department, which we now know had in late 2001 begun a secret, presidentially-approved program of torture of Afghan and al Qaeda captives at Bagram Air Base and other locations, had made it clear to the Justice Department that it wanted the suppression hearing blocked. American torture at that point was still just a troubling rumor, and the Bush administration clearly wanted to keep it that way.

Accordingly, Michael Chertoff, who as head of the Justice Department's criminal division was overseeing all the department's terrorism prosecutions, had his prosecution team offer a deal. All the serious charges against Lindh – terrorism, attempted murder, conspiracy to kill Americans, etc. – would be dropped and he could plead guilty just to the technical charges of "providing assistance" to an "enemy of the U.S." and of "carrying a weapon."

Lindh, whose attorneys dreaded his facing trial in one of the most conservative court districts in the country on the first anniversary of 9/11, had to accept a stiff 20-year sentence, but that was half what he faced if convicted on those two minor charges alone.

But Chertoff went further, according to one of Lindh's attorneys, George Harris. Chertoff (now an appeals court judge in New Jersey) demanded – reportedly at Defense Department insistence, according to what defense attorneys were told – that Lindh sign a statement swearing he had "not been intentionally mistreated" by his U.S. captors and waiving any future right to claim mistreatment or torture.

Further, Chertoff attached a "special administrative measure," essentially a gag order, barring Lindh from talking about his experience for the duration of his sentence.

At the time, few paid attention to this peculiar silencing of Lindh. In retrospect, though, it seems clear that the man coasting toward confirmation as secretary of Homeland Security effectively prevented early exposure of the Bush/Rumsfeld/Gonzales policy of torture, which we now know began in Afghanistan and later "migrated" to Guantanamo and eventually to Iraq. So anxious was Chertoff to avoid exposure in court of Lindh's torture – which included keeping the seriously wounded and untreated Lindh, who was malnourished and dehydrated, blindfolded and duct-taped to a stretcher for days in an unheated and unlit shipping container, and repeatedly threatening him with death – that defense lawyers say he made the deal a limited-time offer.

"It was good only if we accepted it before the suppression hearing," says Harris. "They said if the hearing occurred, all deals were off."

He adds, "Chertoff himself was clearly the person at Justice to whom the line prosecutors were reporting. He was directing the whole plea agreement process, and there was at least one phone call involving him."

"It is outrageous that Chertoff didn't allow testimony about Lindh's torture by American forces to come out," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "It is off the charts in terms of morality, and it should definitely be a line of questioning at Chertoff's confirmation hearing: What did he know about Lindh's treatment in Afghanistan, and why did he go to such lengths to silence him about it?"

But that might never happen at Chertoff's (as yet unscheduled) hearing, since the ranking Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, Joe Lieberman, has endorsed the nomination.Chertoff's judicial office is referring all inquires to the White House press office. Calls there and to the Justice Department, asking for comment, were not returned.Ratner says Chertoff's role in the Lindh trial could well have contributed to the torture scandal that has so undermined the US effort to win over Iraqis following the invasion of their country.

"Had testimony from witnesses under oath about Lindh's torture come out in court in 2002, we might have learned about the government's torture program earlier, and we might not have had Abu Ghraib and other torture scandals," he says.

more ...


http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1741&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0


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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I would have gone to trial.
His lawyers blew it. It should have been knocked down to a Visa violation.


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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. you are right ...they did blow it ..chickenshits ...
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I think that's a very tough call
and ultimately, the decision was Lindh's, not his lawyers'.

The kid was facing a very real possibility of life in prison, and given the climate at the time, a pretty good likelihood of it.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. 14 years or 28 years.
At what point do you stand up and fight? His dad worked at DOJ.





Frank Lindh believes his son was brainwashed
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I don't know the answer
as I said, it was a very tough call. I think the climate at the time made it very unlikely he would get a lesser sentence than what he finally plea-bargained.

That said, the whole thing was a travesty.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. If I'm asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement...
I think: leverage! :think:


I agree it's a tough call. But if I could make a public stink, thereby gaining notoriety, I'd feel that I'd be able to trim the maximum sentence if I lost. Fourteen years in prison does something to the soul. I'd risk it.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. He's wherever Manuel Noriega is
John Walker's Blues

I'm just an American boy raised on MTV
And I've seen all those kids in the soda pop ads
But none of 'em looked like me
So I started lookin' around for a light out of the dim
And the first thing I heard that made sense was the word
Of Mohammed, peace be upon him

chorus:
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah
There is no God but God

If my daddy could see me now -- chains around my feet
He don't understand that sometimes a man
Has got to fight for what he believes
And I believe God is great, all praise due to him
And if I should die, I'll rise up to the sky
Just like Jesus, peace be upon him

chorus

We came to fight the Jihad and our hearts were pure and strong
As death filled the air, we all offered up prayers
And prepared for our martyrdom
But Allah had some other plan, some secret not revealed
Now they're draggin' me back with my head in a sack
To the land of the infidel

A shadu la ilaha illa Allah
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah

-- Steve Earle
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Florida.
He's eligible for parole next year.
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. Same thing that happened to everyone after the 15 minutes
of fame aka useful distraction were over. They poof away as a non story.

Jessica Lynch? The Anthrax Killer? Leonard Peltier? and countless others...all useful distractions...without any honest resolution.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. Mother Jones - Trial By Fury

Trial By Fury



After the revelations about prisoner abuse and flimsy terrorism cases, is it time to reconsider the fate of John Walker Lindh?

By Susan Orenstein
November/December 2004 Issue (Mother Jones)

On December 2, 2001, John Walker Lindh made one of the strongest first impressions in American history. Captured in Afghanistan, there he was on CNN, scraggly, injured, occasionally wincing in pain. Though American, he seemed jarringly foreign, with his Arabic accent and heavy beard. He spoke of training camps and jihad, words that were especially potent so soon after 9/11, when Americans were still obsessively watching nightly replays of the carnage. It would be a month before Lindh was charged with any crime, but in a sense, his journey through the criminal justice system began with that TV appearance, which instantly labeled him “The American Taliban.” For much of the public, itestablished his guilt as a traitor -- or worse.

Seven months later, Lindh -- having eventually been granted access to the lawyer his parents had hired for him -- agreed to serve 20 years in prison for providing service to the Taliban; then he dropped into the shadows. But the climate surrounding the war on terror has changed, and his case looks different with the benefit of hindsight. He made allegations about his treatment at the hands of U.S. captors -- including being tied naked to a stretcher, blindfolded, and photographed with mocking soldiers -- that are now more chillingly believable in the wake of the prison abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib. And since his plea, the government has come under mounting scrutiny for its legal tactics -- and spotty record -- in pursuing alleged terrorists. Not only have several much-ballyhooed cases petered out, but the government’s strategy has lacked consistency. Until recently, Lindh was considered lucky in that he got to appear in court, his prominent lawyers by his side. Meanwhile, "enemy combatants," a loosely defined term applied to many deemed on the wrong side in the war on terror, were held at Guantanamo Bay or U.S. military brigs, without being charged and without access to lawyers or the courts. In June, the U.S. Supreme Court finally ruled that such prisoners couldn’t be detained indefinitely without the chance to challenge their standing.

Soon after this setback, word came that the Justice Department was willing to release Yaser Hamdi, a high-profile combatant whose case bears striking parallels to Lindh’s. Hamdi is also an American citizen captured in Afghanistan after allegedly taking up arms with the Taliban. While many details of the two cases remain classified, the seeming disparities in their outcomes are hard to ignore. Suddenly, Lindh’s sentence seems more draconian, belonging to a period when the prosecutorial zeal of John Ashcroft’s Justice Department went unchallenged.

After news broke of Hamdi’s pending release, Lindh’s lawyer, noted San Francisco attorney James Brosnahan, called on the government to revisit his plea agreement. Brosnahan won’t discuss any formal steps he might take, and his chances of ever getting Lindh’s sentence reduced are slim. Yet a fresh look at Lindh’s case says a lot about the administration of justice during times of intense national fear. "What’s interesting is being in the middle of a war psychology," Brosnahan says. "The reason I think that’s interesting is we’ll be there again."

<more>

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/11_402.html
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