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Michael Ledeen Is Someone to Be Aware Of (PNAC, AEI)

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 11:58 PM
Original message
Michael Ledeen Is Someone to Be Aware Of (PNAC, AEI)
Unlike Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen is rarely if ever mentioned at DU. But he's a very important neo-conservative. He is a contributing editor of National Review Online (NRO) and "resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute." (Do you suppose it used to be called the French Chair?)

The American Enterprise Institute (AEI) is the think tank sponsored by PNAC. (See Stephanie's thread here in GD if you don't know what PNAC is.) Start taking note of the number of political talk show guests affiliated with AEI; these guys get out a lot. Ledeen is one I haven't seen on television, however. I became interested in him a few months ago when I read somewhere that he is a very influential neo-conservative. Then I read an article about remarks Ledeen made to JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Analysis -- another think tank) in April. Going to JINSA's site, I found myself surprised by some of his comments, including:

Ledeen argued that Iran might use nuclear weapons against Israel based on the rationale that "half of the Jewish population in the world would be killed after the attack versus a minute fraction of Muslim people killed in retaliation. It would be worth the lives of Iranians to destroy Israel."

(An interesting idea that led me to wonder if having a Jewish state is wise, being a case of putting most of your eggs in one basket and storing the basket in a dangerous location. I don't know the answer to that question. It never before occurred to me to even think of it.)

(Is there a hint of the old "the enemy places less value on lives than we do" canard? Ledeen suggests that the loss of Iranian lives in the process of destroying Israel would be acceptable to the Iranian people. Those who are old enough to remember Viet Nam and/or Korea will remember the sentiment "They don't place as much value on human life as we do.")

Ledeen also reminded the audience that both Syria and Iran sent tens of thousands of men into Iraq to aid the Iraqi Republican Guard against U.S. and allied troops.

(Has this allegation of "tens of thousands of men" being sent from Iran and Syria into Iraq ever been mentioned elsewhere?)

Ledeen outlined three lessons the U.S. learned in Iraq. First, the U.S. military "performed better than was expected both in terms of technology and the soldiers."

(Excuse me? How low were their expectations?)

Second, when the U.S. Marines went to Iran, they were welcomed by the people and were asked if they were staying to free them. "This was a blatant outcry for liberation," Ledeen said.

(Any documentation of this?)

Finally, it has become clear that Saudi Arabia is the main financier of terrorism.

(I'll buy that.)


But this paragraph contains the real kicker:

Ledeen applauded President Bush's vision of promoting the development of representative governments in the Middle East. The region, he believes, is on the verge of drastic change. As of now, the U.S. is withdrawing troops from Saudi Arabia while Qatar is experiencing democratic elections. All these developments are hopeful signs for the region. Ledeen concluded his remarks by declaring, "the time for diplomacy is at the end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon."

(Think we'll have any say in this?)

http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1930/documentid/2012/history/3,2166,1930,2012





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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. actually the "Ledeen Doctrine" is much cruder
as quoted approvingly by Jonah Goldberg:


http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg042302.asp

"Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business."
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Another quote I'd seen but not realized was Ledeen. Thanks!

The attitude is appalling. It's the way of the bully.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't Ledeen also the guy
who has referred to himself (even wrote a book by the title??) of "universal fascist"?

Straussian through and through, and Strauss was indeed a "universal fascist," by which he meant Nazism, but a Nazism that allowed Jews in.

Shudder.

Eloriel
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. AEI/PNAC/JINSA ...
The Unholy Trinity ....

Ledeen ...

Perle ...

Krystol ...

Wolfowitz ...

Bolton ....

Feith ...

Gaffney ...

Goldberg ...

Garner ...

Rumsfeld ...

Cheney ...

Gingrich ...

Woolsey ...

Jebbie ...

----------

DAMN this pit of vipers ....

DAMN them ALL to the lowest hell ....
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Hey, careful there Trajan
There are some SERIOUS Ledeen followers
over in the FA forum.
You'd better watch what you say,
or your post might get deleted.
Just like this one will...
BHN
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not to quibble ...
But isnt the PNAC the 'child' of the AEI and not vice versa ? ...
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. You may be right and thanks for asking.

I'll try to look it up tomorrow.

I'd look it up but I'm tired and I want to add some NRO quotes to this thread.
For sure, PNAC and AEI are related, but have you ever seen a representative of PNAC on tv? It seems that AEI slips under the radar.
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LoneStarLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Ledeen and Machiavelli
Just check out this book he wrote that was a big hit a couple of years ago:

<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/031220471X/qid=1063131012/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-3079125-2419206?v=glance&s=books&n=507846>

Machiavelli on Modern Leadership

One thing you can reduce all neo-conservative philosophers (they ARE NOT political scientists!!!!) down to, particularly students of Leo Strauss, is their idolizing of Machiavelli.

Once you understand this, much of our foreign policy becomes quite a bit clearer.
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JawJaw Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Scary Guy....
Edited on Tue Sep-09-03 12:39 AM by JawJaw
I must admit, Ledeen stood out as a particularly scary NeoCon when I caught a BBC documentary on these guys " The War Party"a few months back. (Click on the "transcript" download for the full gory details)


Day 2
20th March



BRADSHAW: The next morning Washington at war. The TV news sets a confident tone. Time for a
walk on the wild side with Ultra Neo-conservative Michael Ledeen. He's been called a mysterious,
ideological adventurer. In the 70s he was involved in the shadowy world of rightwing Italian politics. In
the 80s his secret meetings with the Israel government led, inadvertently he says, to the notorious Iran-
Contra Affair. The second day of the war and Michael Ledeen is about to go on TV talking about more
regimes to topple.

MICHAEL LEDEEN
American Enterprise Institute
This is a conflict between freedom and tyranny. We're fighting tyrants. I believe that if the tyrants are
removed that there'll be a great deal more peace and chances for peace in the Middle East.

BRADSHAW: And the tyrants if you can name names.

LEDEEN: Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia are the big four and then there's Libya. There's a North
Korean problem too that we'll have to deal with although that's not directly related to the Middle East
except in so far as North Korea has helped them. You can't solve all problems I grant that. I mean I'm a
student of Machiavelli, I wrote a book on Machiavelli and I know the struggle against evil is going to go on
forever.


BRADSHAW: Post 9/11 Michael Ledeen's shadowy Neo-con talents are back in favour. He's listened to in
the Pentagon and it seems the White House. The Washington Post recently reported he's an adviser to
White House political guru Karl Rove.





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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. These guys are so very scary!
I am losing sleep over what they might pull to stay in power.
Nothing would supprise me. We have a great bunch of canidates
and Kerry was on a roll today but it's bedtime now and I'm getting that familiar feeling gnawing at my gut.

If you want to join me in insomnia check out what Leo Strauss taught the chickenhawks at the U. of Chicago and a lot more scary stuff at:

http://larouchein2004.net/search.htm
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sorry, the link is
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks for the link about Strauss -- he's very important and

I didn't mention him. But do you think LaRouche is credible on Strauss? I realize an extreme site may have credible information on some things but don't know if that's the case with LaRouche. Would another source be more credible? Opinions?
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. I don't know about LaRouche,
haven't heard a peep from the mainstream press about him since he went to jail several years ago despite being in the race for the past few elections.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. You can take LaRouche to the bank on a few things.
His organization's research on the Bush family and the Straussian-neocons (and the DLC too, actually) is the best there is.

It's his philosophy and his belief that he's a major player in Dem party politics that's flaky, not his group's research. Funny but true.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ledeen is responsible for many
disturbing, delusional quotes. Here's a particularly chilling one:

"If we just let our own vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to be clever and piece together clever diplomatic solutions to this thing, but just wage a total war against these tyrants, I think we will do very well, and our children will sing great songs about us years from now."
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. You're certainly spot on about his delusional quotes

but did Ledeen say that one? I'd swear it's been attributed to Perle more than once. Maybe they're interchangeable in their delusions. :shudder:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. This group goes hand in hand with the PNAC guys
CNP


The guy who set this up is a religious zealot, but he did compile all the cast of characters for us in index form..

These names come up time and time again when the Bush gang is running the show :(
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thanks for that link, and

I love the Tucker Frog, although it insults frogs in the good cause of satirizing the toad Carlson! (And now I've insulted poor ol' Warty Bliggins!)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. Quotes from a National Review Online article by Ledeen

These paragraphs are from the Sept. 2 article, "The Latest Horrors," dealing with the bombing of the mosque in Najaf, the UN embassy in Baghdad, and bombings of the Jordanian embassy, all of which he blames on "Hezbollah's infamous chief of operations, Imad Mughniyah, the same man who organized the terrible mass murders at the U.S. Marine barracks and the American embassy in Beirut in the mid-1980s." Ledeen claims Mugniyah is now in Iraq.

Midway through the article, there's this:

"Many of our analysts are currently falling into one of those linguistic traps that Ludwig Wittgenstein used to warn us about. They constantly ask, "which organization do these terrorists come from?" But they should be asking the empirical question: "Does it still make sense to talk about separate terrorist organizations?" I have been arguing for the better part of two years that we should think of the terrorists as a group of mafia families that have united around a single war plan. The divisions and distinctions of the past no longer make sense; the terror mafias are working together, and their missions are defined by the states that protect, arm, fund, and assist them: Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia."

(Is he right? And, if he is, do we have to go to war against all the countries he says are supporting the "terror mafias"? And why do I think the phrase "terror mafias" will enter the lexicon?)

<snip>

"Which leaves us with the usual questions for the secretary of state and his henchmen who are supposed to design an effective Iran policy: Why are you still negotiating with this evil regime? How many Iranians, Iraqis, Americans, and Englishmen have to be murdered by the mullahs before you accept the plain facts about the Iranian regime, and commit this country to the liberation of the Iranian people? Or do we have to await even greater catastrophes, and then have to confront religious fanatics armed with atomic bombs?

Faster, please."


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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's part of Ledeen's August 27 column "The Peace Trap" or

"We Should Have Kicked Their Ass Sooner!!!"


August 27, 2003, 8:45 a.m.
The Peace Trap
Back to the war, please.

"For the second time in as many years, President Bush has fallen into a trap designed to prevent an American victory against the forces of terrorism in the Middle East. The original trap sprung in early 2002 after the decimation of the Taliban and al Qaeda was the so-called "Saudi peace plan," according to which the United States was not entitled to liberate Iraq until and unless the Palestinian question was "solved." It should have been obvious that this was merely an effort to stall our war against the terror masters, since many of the finest diplomatic and strategic minds in the world had failed to "solve" the problem for more than half a century, and the Saudis themselves were actively funding the very Palestinian terrorism that guaranteed the failure of any solution. But every Arab country, virtually all of Europe, and our own diplomats, from Secretary of State Colin Powell on down, urged the president to go for it.

This delayed Operation Iraqi Freedom for many months, until President Bush realized that nothing could be accomplished with a Palestinian tyranny, whereupon he abandoned the Saudi plan, declared Yasser Arafat persona non grata, and pressed ahead with the war. But the long delay proved very costly. Had we proceeded quickly against the terror masters in Baghdad, Tehran, and Damascus (with explicit warnings to Riyadh that they would be next if they did not stop financing both terrorist organizations and the network of radical jihadist schools and mosques that inculcated fanaticism around the world), we would have had considerable international support, especially if our war employed a mixture of military and political tactics (Iran, for example, required no military action at all, but modest support for a democratic revolution already under way). But the delay enabled the major opponent of the war notably France, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Iran, Syria, and Egypt to drag us into the quagmire of the United Nations for even further delays, and sabotage our support in Turkey and elsewhere".

<snip>

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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. I get the impression that persons of this ilk
including Wolfowitz, Perle and others are willing to work towards having the mideast explode into unpresidented violent turmoil with the sole purpose of protecting and furthering the power of the state of Israel. Are Jewish claims that Iran, Syria, Lebanon etc. are bastions of terrorism and a threat to the world mere propaganda or hype to entice the US to discard efforts involving diplomacy and resort to gunboat diplomacy to solve Israel's woes ? If this is true, there is no way in hell that the US could do this single handedly. It will take the world commmunity under the established UN, using encouraging diplomatic pressure to solve the problems in the mideast that involve Israel so heavily.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. Michael LeDeen on China
from `97 presented to Congress. China is in the spotlight so i wanted to posted this.

some 'tid-bits to keep in mind

1)the opening speaker in the transcript is ex-Congresswoman Fowler.
Fowler is currently a member of the Defense Policy Board and AEI.

2)LeDeen was speaking as member of JINSA

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1997/h970627.htm
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks for the link, buddhamama.

I've read that the neo-cons' slogan is something like "after Baghdad, Beijing."
China is very much in their sights. With Rumsfeld, a PNAC signatory who follows the neoconservative views, as Secretary of Defense, it would be appropriate to change DOD's name back to the War Department. He'd really get off on being Secretary of War.
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. Someone should attempt a biography
He was up to some weird shit around the whole P2/Vatican/mafia/Banco Ambrosia/"strategy of tension" in 70's Italy where he was a journalist suspected of being a spook; his propaganda role in the the October Suprise slamming Carter's brother; his work with Al "I'm in charge" Haig in doing for the KGB what he's now doing for Islamic fundamentalism (including the "KGB tried to kill the Pope" thesis) & then the meetings with Mancher Ghorbanifar ... basically a fascinating, utterly frightening, fanatic who somehow keeps being taken serious.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Good idea. I was thinking of talking to Stephanie about this

since she organized the PNAC references.

Welcome to DU, Monkey See Monkey Do! :hi:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. LeDeen is a longtime BFEE propagandist.
He has been placing disruptive reports in CIA front publications in third world nations since the early 70s, to help scare the citizens of those BFEE targeted countries.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. I had no idea
about this guy. Thanks for the info!

Julie
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
28. he is a regular guest on c-span
He is usually on with Brian Lamb on reich-wing Fridays. That is where I first noticed him quite awhile back. I thought his message was creepily familiar and sure enough found he is part of the PNAC crowd of nutjobs.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
29. The Scuttlebutt from BROCK
*****QUOTE****from "Blinded by the Right********

p. 260. ...Barbara Ledeen, a neoconservative operative who was the executive director of the Independent Women's Forum, the antifeminist group Ricky had formed, in part with Scaife money, from Women for Judge Thomas. Ledeen was married to Michael Ledeen, a shadowy intriguer who was involved in Iranian arms deals during the Iran-contra scandal. Referring to herself asn an 'ex-hippie,' she displayed the same zealousness of 1960s left-wing extremism, now from the other side. Like many neocons I knew, Barbara had remained in the same emotional state of all--out war for the past thirty years. If only for the hell of it, Barbara was boiliing mad. ....

p. 318. ...Barbara Ledeen, director of the antifeminist Independent Women's Forum, whose husband, Iran-contra figure Michael Ledeen, I had criticized, not in the Esquire piece, but in the followup discussion on-line with Tucker Carlson, had threatened hyperbolically to 'firebomb' my house. Such feelings of betrayal were understandable. The article was a betrayal. It was not a betrayal of friendship, though I had once considered the Silbermans and the Ledeens to be friends. It was a betrayl of the only thing that had forged our bond: the conservative movement. ....
*********UNQUOTE******
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Ledeen is an extreme evil involved with
nearly every BFEE crime of the last 30 years.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. & from BLUMENTHAL
*******QUOTE**** "The Clinton Wars" *******
....And Drudge confided in Brock that he had been put up to libeling me by several Republican sources. One of them, he said, was Richard Carlson, ambasador to the Seychelles during the first Bush administration and a close associate of Richard Mellon Scaife. Drudge also said he had relied for advice upon Michael and Barbara Ledeen; Michael was a figure involved in the early stages of the Iran-Contra scandal who became a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, while his wife worked for the Independent Women's Forum. Drudge suggested that another source was John Fund, an editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal who had been a ghostwriter for Rush Limbaugh and was close to Newt Gingrich. ....
********UNQUOTE*******
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