Controlling the masses by controlling sex and sexuality

[prolesunited]

What is the relationship between sexual repression and fascism? Why does the right feel the need to control women's reproduction? Why are they so concerned what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults, especially if they are same sex couples?

Why is sex made out to be dirty and shameful? Why do they preach restraint and morality to the populace, yet indulge in such "sins" themselves?

I know a linkage exists between sexuality and authoritarian/fascist power structures, but I'm having trouble trying to formulate it in my mind. Any help from the super-smart DUers here?

[bryant69]

1. I think it's just the fact that Sex is an enormous issue

It is a fundamental human activity; and so naturally each social movement that comes along generally has to have an opinion on it. I certainly don't think it's unique to the right to try to forumlate some position on sexuality.

Or to put it another way--Republicans seem obsessed with sex because we are all obsessed with Sex.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[imenja]

5. I don't see a correlation

Brazil is a sexually open society and they underwent thirty plus years of military dictatorship. We'd probably consider Britain a reasonably Democratic society, yet can you think of anyone more sexually repressed than the Brits? I think it relates more to cultural and religious attitudes than politics.

Edit: I meant to reply to the original post.

[maxsolomon]

24. point of order:

Brazil is NOT a "sexually open society". its a "sexually fucked up" society, like nearly all societies other than, say, pre-HMS Bounty Tahiti.

men who engage in gay sex there don't consider themselves gay unless they get penetrated. that's fucked up rationalizing.

[imenja]

25. compared to where?

Certainly not in terms of homosexuality, but it is far more open than any place I've ever been when it comes to heterosexual sex. I thought we were comparing actual places, not Weberian-like ideal types.

[hippiechick]

2. Fascinating question Proles ...

I'd love to see what others have to say, because like you, I can't make any sense of the RW's pre-occupation with sex.

Thanks for starting this thread ! :hi:

[nickgutierrez]

3. I may be wrong (don't have the book with me)...

...but in Orwell's 1984, weren't the members of society assigned spouses? It seems to me that it's just another way of restricting choice, in the name of morality.

I don't think it works in any other way than branding enemies of the Iraq war 'in support of the terrorists' -- it's framing the sexual debate in such a way as to really not leave much of an option. You're either with them, the 'god-fearing Christians', or you're with, essentially, the 'satan-loving terrorists'.

The idea here is not to control a person's ability to make a choice about their lives, but to control whether or not the people think there is a choice to make at all. Where choice is not existant, convention prevails.

EDIT: added last sentence

[arcane1]

17. yes, and in that case...

the Party fought sexuality because it creates connections and loyalties between individuals, which was seen as a threat to loyalty to the Party

[nickgutierrez]

19. Right.

Choice allows one to decide where one's feelings, interests, and loyalties lie -- therefore, it is wrong and must be held to a minimum, and eliminated wherever possible. The logic of fascism.

[WindRavenX]

4. my two cents:

It seems to me violence replaces the desire for sexual intimacy and love;this is obviously happening in the US where the norm seems to be (at least to me) that violent, horrific movies is fine, but any erotic movie that deals with human sexuality and love is seen as a threat.
Why?
I believe the big answer is that love makes us do crazy things- it makes us want to fight for justice and truth. Loving another human being (s) makes us realize the individuality of ourselves and makes life sacred; all things that a facist regime is against.
Hope that makes sense from a non-historical POV :hi:

[htuttle]

6. Wilhelm Reich described this in Mass Psychology of Fascism

I've mentioned this before recently, but he described how this works.

Sex, and moreso thoughts of sex, generate a tension in us (obviously). A fascist government can use this tension, and rechannel it to whatever it likes, usually some sort of hate. If sexual thoughts are common (unavoidable), but also considered 'evil', then you create a situation of tension and self-hatred in people who buy into your spiel. This self-hatred is easily channeled toward whomever you'd like.

Reich may have gotten a bit loopy regarding the influence of 'orgone' in all this, but he describes the syndrome in depth. Just think of 'orgone' as a metaphor for something if it bothers you.

This book (based partly on his experiences in Germany) was confiscated and burned by the US FDA, and Reich thrown in prison where he eventually died. Apparently there's something in there the government didn't want us to see. Luckily, like most banned books, you can now get a reprint quite easily.

It's well worth reading, and my description does not do his theories justice.

[SmokingJacket]

14. Reich was brilliant and had great insights into human psychology.

Too bad about the orgone stuff!

[sportndandy]

7. Fascists must control all behavior.

Sex and religion and drugs. It is control for the sake of control.

[Betsy Ross]

8. Remember Germany in the 30s

Nightclubs with sexual entertainment were very popular; think of the movie Caberet. Was the sexual expression a reaction to the repression or vice versa?

[Karenina]

9. Read. Wilhelm. Reich.

eom

[K-W]

10. The traditional family structure.

The family is the foundation of the traditional societal structure. The idea is to provide only one avenue for people to satisfy thier needs, including sex, and for that avenue to be accepting the artificial structure of society which relies largely on the quasi biological structure of families.

Sex should be something available through monogomous heterosexual relationships and even then it should be something that is only done to achieve another end of traditional thinkers, more babies. (An unfortunate goal in light of what we now know about population growth.

So you take the potentially disruptive (to the traditional order) force of sexual motivation, which can lead in any direction left to itself, and use it to get people into positions in society tha will largely control thier behavior.

[teenagebambam]

11. Here's my take...

The way I see it, their condemnation of all things “sinful” is a desperate attempt to avoid personal responsibility. If they can craft a world without temptation, they will never have to make a moral choice and risk it being the "wrong" one. Nor will they ever have to deprive themselves of anything enjoyable,(enjoyable = bad!) because nothing enjoyable will be available to them, the choice has been taken away.

They're psychologically paralyzed. The leaders of fundie movements prey on this paralysis and promise their followers a world where "evil" has been banished, and they can live the rest of their lives in peace, never having to make a decision for themselves.

[Up2Late]

12. The way I see it is...

They want "the unwashed masses" to have LOTS of kids, but at the same time, limit wages and "good" jobs. :hurts:

This way, they can push for "Sub-minimum wage" jobs, with a "Take it or leave it" attitude, thus putting "downward pressure" on All wages, unless you want a job as cannon fodder in *'s "War without end" foreign policy.:evilgrin:

[SmokingJacket]

13. I'm not one of the smart people here, but I wonder if there's

a political connection or only a psychological one.

Sex is about control -- controlling urges, and controlling others so you can control your urges. People who are sexually insecure might be drawn to authoritarianism because it makes them feel safer. If any DUers moonlight as dominatrices/dominators they might have some insight here.

Women MUST cover their ankles so I don't LOSE CONTROL OF MYSELF!!

But the connection between preoccupation with others' sexuality and with sex as "sin" (which I just never really understood) and fascism is undeniable.

There was an interesting thread here yesterday that pointed out that there's an element of "I can't get me any, so I don't want you getting any either" going on with right-wingers, too.

[KurtNYC]

15. It works for the Catholic church

Sex is wrapped up into guilt and shame. The guilty and shameful are more easily controlled than a bunch of free loving hippies.

[Randers]

16. I think it is odd that some right-wingers

are so serious about keeping sex natural (no birth control). Having as many kids as God planned for them - because to do otherwise goes against God's plans.

And yet you look at how they treat the world and it seems to be the opposite. They are not interested in keeping things natural. You have corporations controlling seeds - genetically modified and all. They have no concern over keeping areas free from man's destruction - like the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. No concern about keeping species from extinction. No concern about pollution.

It's weird.

[kiki]

18. Re: 1984

The Party didn't assign spouses; in fact, they were working on "eradicating the orgasm" by using artificial insemination to remove the need for sex - and therefore partnership - of any kind. There was an 'anti-sex league' arguably reminiscent of today's teen abstinence crowd.

Julia makes the best argument in the book - to paraphrase: When you've had sex, you feel happy and you don't feel like doing anything else. You don't feel like working for the Party or spying on your neighbours or doing the two-minute hate or whatever. Sex - the act itself, or just the desire to engage in it - makes people expend mental and physical energy that the authorities would rather put to other uses.

[HereSince1628]

20. Some speculations

Why do conservatives have sex?

Gratification of sexual arousal is a natural motivator for engaging in sex whether it is found through solo, same sex, or heterosexual activity. It seems to follow that the pursuit of that gratification drives sexual behavior for everyone even conservatives.

Other speculations on the issue....

Conservatives, as a generality, have an intolerance to ambiguity.
Same sex relationships create something of a cognitive crisis for them. The loss of the definition of marriage as a heterosexual relationship is based on this sort of problem. The regulatory focus of conservatives on heterosexual marriage relieves them from the anxiety of the category crisis by providing closure on the definition of human sex roles.


American conservatives of the "moral right" seem to claim authority to regulate via religion. They use "sacred text" to provide the structure by which sexual behaviors may be considered good or bad. Conservative personalities seem susceptible to acceptance of authority in general and the use of biblical stories and the utterances of clerics is just more of the same.

The American religious right can use their beliefs as an ideological rationalization of a social structure dominated by thier own beliefs including "traditional families." Religion provides the basis to judge and name as deviant behaviors that are "nontraditional." Having thus identified certain persons as deviants facilitates their advocacy of civil laws that deny rights and punish those who are "sinful."

[theboss]

21. Is this why I haven't been laid in three months?

Damn right-wingers....

[fooj]

LMAO!! Thanks for the giggle!

[TWiley]

22. If a man wearing a funny hat decorated with odd symbols

came to your villiage, and managed to sacrifice someones daughter to a volcano, then he would have absolute power over the village.

Power is what they seek. The power of bullshit that must be accepted without proof. That way there is no proof that can possibly threaten them as their power lies in "faith" without reason.

Sexuality is the common thread that unites all humans. Power over that equates to power over all. This is why they focus on it.

[cally]

23. The three major religions that rely on Moses

(Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) supplanted feminine centered religions. These were religions that celebrated female deities, mother earth, and sexuality. Part of the rise of the peoples of the book depended on making the celebration of female sexuality evil. When men and women have sex, females have power. In a male patriarchal culture, women have to be diminished. They couldn't prevent sex, but they make it seem wrong. Make it seem evil if women and men enjoy sex for anything other than procreation.

[prolesunited]

26. Very interesting comments

Anyone else care to weigh in?