Earthquake: Coincidence or a Corporate Oil Tragedy?

[Slit Skirt]

I want to thank IWfern for posting this in another thread...the thread has been locked. But I think this is too important to get lost
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Earthquake: Coincidence or a Corporate Oil Tragedy?

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=1021...

Now I don’t claim to be an expert on seismic activity, but there has been a series of events which led up to the 9.0 earthquake of the coast of Indonesia which can not be ignored. This all could be an enormous coincidence, but one must look at the information and choose for themselves whether there is anything to it.
On November 28th, one month ago, Reuters reported that during a 3 day span 169 whales and dolphins beached themselves in Tasmania, an island of the southern coast of mainland Australia and in New Zealand. The cause for these beachings is not known, but Bob Brown, a senator in the Australian parliament, said "sound bombing" or seismic tests of ocean floors to test for oil and gas had been carried out near the sites of the Tasmanian beachings recently.

<snip>
On December 24th there was a magnitude 8.1 earthquake more than 500 miles southeast of Tasmania near New Zealand, with a subsequent aftershock 6.1 a little later in the morning that same day.

On December 26th, the magnitude 9.0 earthquake struck at the intersection of the Australian tectonic plate and the India tectonic plate. This is the devastating tragedy that we have all heard about. The death toll of this horrific event has reached 52,000 souls and continues to rise.

On December 27th, 20 whales beached themselves 110 miles west of Hobart on the southern island state of Tasmania.


another article

Pod of 20 Whales Beached on Remote Australia Coast
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&nci ...

Tue Dec 28, 4:36 AM ET <snip>

It's very hard to pinpoint those sort of things because ... this year has been a year when we've had lots of strandings anyway and obviously they've all happened without an earthquake," zoologist Mark Hindell told Australian Broadcasting Corp. (ABC) television.

The Australian government has said it would set up a national database on whale strandings. Last month, 115 long-finned pilot whales died in two separate strandings on Tasmanian beaches.

Bob Brown, leader of Australia's Greens party, expressed concern last month that those strandings might have been linked to "sound bombing" of the ocean floor used in seismic tests for oil and gas.

[Zuni]

1. There is no way that some depth charges could cause a 9.0 quake

This quake was caused by a shift in plates, something that happens on fault lines.
It is no ones fault. It is a tragedy with no one to blame

[Tinoire]

11. Why are you so sure? You trust the people who

refused to sign the CTBN that much?

research on the fall-out of nuclear testing is so highly classified that little is known of the possible impact. The U.S. has not ratified the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, leaving the door open to future U.S. testing despite an extended moratorium. There has already been a strong move toward resumption of testing since 2002.

http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12302004.html

[Zynx]

26. Uh, WTF is wrong with you?

Nukes? Oil drilling? You can't move a tectonic plate with stuff like that.

[Tinoire]

56. Zuni, Why so little interest in questioning ??

Do you accept everything at face value?

Does your imagination not push you to ask questions?

We don't even know what kind of weapons are out there because that information is so highly classified. If you think all we got for the billions poured into the Pentagon for weapon's development is the few mild bunker busters you know about then whoooa I have bridges, swamps, and gold mines to sell you!

Start asking questions Zuni. Lack of questioning is what got us Bush. I for one have no intention of keeping him and I will question EVERTHING that happens while that drunk is on watch.

Instead of pooh-pooing, don't you think our time is better spent looking into why some are reluctant to take the "official" version of anything these days? There ARE historical precedents that must be considered. Here's some old, old news from an incident over 20 years ago, 20 paleolithic years ago in terms of technology and trillions of your tax dollars ago. It's time to start asking questions. And those who can't should stop ridiculing those who do. The life you save may be your own.

Never forget that Cousteau warned us about these things. Warned us to stop all the nuclear weapons testing in the Ocean but people refused to listen, refused to ask questions. Well we see where that is getting us. They said there was no such thing as global warming either - "not sound science". Phew.... Not sound science indeed! Do you have any idea how many nuclear tests have been conducted in that area? Between the French, the British and the Americans, Lord have mercy on us all!

This part just focuses on the French. Not even going to research what we've done since because logic alone should tell you that we haven't been JUST designing obscene nuclear weapons to leave them on the shelf. 40 years of chipping away with weapons neither you nor I can imagine could possibly have led to this catastrophe. I REFUSE not to question. Especially not with the madmen in charge of our country. When America goes down as the new Nazis for all the crimes we've committed against humanity, I want the record to show that some of us questioned and spoke out.

Peace
====

Environmental Effects of Underground Testing at Moruroa

The possible environmental effects of underground testing include short-term and longterm effects. At the time of the explosion, fracturing of the atoll surface triggers landslides, tsunamis (tidal waves), and earthquakes. There is also evidence that radionuclides have vented to the environment. Possible long-term effects include leakage of fission products to the biosphere and transfer of dissolved plutonium from the lagoon to the ocean and the food chain.


Physical Damage to the Reef
The upper layer of the atoll is made up of reef carbonates, mainly limestone. This limestone cover is approximately 300 meters in the south of the atoll, increasing to 430 - 550 meters in the north. The upper part of this limestone layer is undolomitized and comprises porous coral debris, approximately 125 meters thick. The lower part is dolomitized and therefore quite compact.
This limestone layer is separated from the underlying volcanic material by a transitional zone of variable thickness, composed mainly of weathered clays. It can vary in thickness from 40 to 45 meters below the atoll to a mere 50 centimeters or even nothing beneath most of the lagoon.
The clay zone is impervious. The underlying volcanics are initially aerial volcanics, which then change to more homogeneous submarine volcanics at greater depths.
Each scientific mission to Moruroa has described severe impairment of the integrity of at least the carbonate part of the atoll. The damage includes fissures in the limestone and surface subsidences of large areas of the atoll. Fissures are propagated by the testing, a result of the cumulative compacting of the limestone. Fissuring serves to increase lateral and vertical water transport in the carbonate body of the atoll,(24) possibly resulting in more rapid leakage of the fission products. The French authorities claim that no new damage is occurring because the tests are no longer conducted under the reef crown but under the lagoon.(25) This claim is contradicted by underwater observations of the Cousteau mission, which discovered recently fallen noncolonized limestone blocks, suggesting that tests were carried out in the months immediately preceding their arrival and that on-going tests are still damaging the reef. (26)

Triggering of Landslides, Tsunamis and Earthquakes
At least one major test-related landslide and consequent Tsunami in Moruroa, on July 25, 1979. Apparently, the 120kiloton weapon, which was supposed to be lowered into a shaft of 800 meters, got stuck at a depth of 400 meters and could not be dislodged. The French authorities decided to explode the device anyway. This explosion resulted in a major underwater landslide of at least one million cubic meters of coral and rock and created a cavity, probably 140 meters in diameter. The underwater landslide produced a major tidal wave comparable to a tsunami, which spread through the Tuamotu Archipelago and injured people on the southern part of Moruroa Atoll. (27)
French authorities initially denied that any mishap had occurred and declared that the tidal wave was of natural origin, but in a publication in 1985 they did acknowledge "the accident of 25 July 1979".(28)

http://canterbury.cyberplace.org.nz/peace/nukenviro.html

===

Between 1966 and 1991, 175 nuclear test explosions were carried out at Moruroa and Fangataufa Atolls as part of the French nuclear weapons testing programme. Both of these atolls are part of the Tuamotu Archipelago located in French Polynesia. Of the 175 tests, 44 were atmospheric and took place on the two atolls between 1966 and 1974. After this tests were conducted underground at the rate of between four and eleven tests per year. Of these 8 were conducted at Fangataufa and the remaining 123 at Moruroa. The yields of these explosions have never been officially released by the French Authorities, but are estimated on the basis of New Zealand and Swedish seismic studies to be around 2500 kilotons TNT equivalent.

(snip)
Reference <3> notes that observations were made on SCUBA and submarine dives to 50 and 230m respectively. These took place on the external slope of the Atoll in Zone "Zoe" in the South of the Atoll. This area had been the location of a large slide of the external submerged part of the Atoll following the detonation of a 120kt device which became stuck in the shaft in the limestone. The slide mobilised around a million cubic metres of rock, creating a tsunami like tidal wave. Internally in the Atoll, Taken together, Reference <4> considers that these events must have been accompanied by deep fracturing. Reference <1> suggests that a cavern 140m in diameter was formed. On the basis of the formulae presented in reference <3> this implies a fracture zone almost a kilometre in radius. This would extend to the periphery of the reef and to the surface. Observations during the diving programme found that both new and old fissures were apparent, and that there was evidence that at the time of observation, recent rock falls and cracks of recent origin were present, showing that tests under the lagoon, rather than at the periphery of the reef were capable of causing disintegration of the limestone crown and had been doing so. Report <8> noted that slippage of the outermost limestone apron layer would effectively strip the Atoll of its water protective skin.

http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/rw/sci.html (A report well worth reading in its entirety)

[eyepaddle]

59. The problem with questioning everything

is, you need to know enough to make sure you are asking the right questions. We all have only so much time and energy, if every single person questioned every single thing none of us would ever get anywhere.

The original post questioned the link between "sound bombing" and the beachings and from there to the earthquake. Nuke testing is an entirely different prospect. Marine organisms cna likely be strongly affected by sound effects due to their sensitivity to sound, marine mammals particularly as sonar and seismic work disrupts their nervous system--it doesn't blow them inside out or anything.

Tectonic plates on the other hand have no sensitivity to irritants it takes almost incomprehensible force to get them moving--and underwater seismics fall far, far, far short of this. I have been on several offshore oil-rigs when underwater seismic surveys were being done, if you weren't told what was going on you'd never know, I slept right through them. It kinda bummed me out at the time--I thought it'd be cool to see reflection seismology in action.

Now on to nukes, until somebody actually shows us that one happened the whole discussion is effectively meaningless. Aside from that an earthquake of 9.0 indicates that that fault line had been building up stress (and not releasing it) for quite some time. Tectonic stress can be released seismicallY (earthquake) or as Aseismic slip, which is more like a continous, smooth "flow" of the plates. The reports I've seen state that in places there is a new ridge 30-50 feet high which stretches for hundreds of miles. That stress was pre-existing, and mammoth, and as such would be released on its own--which let's be honest; it was.

On to more esoteric aspects of the discussion: do fundamental paradigm shifts occur in sciences (and all forms of human endeavour, really)? Yes, often with a great deal of consternation to those holding the existing viewpoint. A good example is plate tectonics itself. For centuries people had wondered why so many continents looked as though they fit together like a jig-saw puzzle. The existing wisdom was that continents moving was absurd--what could possibly move such mammoth objects--why wasn''t the sea flor torn up by their passage? Clearly the continents could not drift.

However, geologists--who by the way had been trained with the current "immobile continents" viewpoint were examining Atlantic ocean floor magnetic orientiation. They were shocked to find a central ridge--with its own central crown valley--and symmetrical magnetic polarities to the east and west of the ridge. Despite being brought up in the orthodoxy of the time they could see the data and reach the inevitable conclusion. Moral of this story: was a science upended by unitiated outside heretics who didn't believe the standard dogma? No, people who had a background of knowledge, working patiently realized that current theory was inadequate and offered a superior alternative. Same thing actually goes for Copernicus--he didn't pull a sun-centric view out of his ass. He spent decades trying to reconcile observation with theory, couldn't do it, and offered a different theory. Which in actual fact was also incorrect--he thought the planets orbited in circles. The do not, they orbit in ellipses, which was again discovered through painstaking work by people who saw that STILL could not predict where the planets would appear in sky.

And in closing--I want people to question, very deeply I want that, however I want them to do it with a base of knowledge so that they can effectively evaluate what they are being told--as oppsoed to just breezing in and offering what is essentially just speculation.

To EMPHASIZE, the more the merrier! I LOVE science, and I would love company in my passion, but long term, meaningful companions, not just people who have a momentary infatuation and then leave me all alone. :)

Peace

[Zuni]

37. Oil companies do not detonate nuclear weapons when looking for oil

This article was ludicrous. It would take more than a underwater explosion to shift a huge peice of the earth 50 feet, which is what happened. You need a force hundreds of times the power of a nuclear weapon (actually, probably far more powerful than hundreds)
These quakes generate more power than we could imagine.

[goforit]

20. Well.....sound bombing most certainly can beach all mammals!!

Sound has become a very very powerful force!!!

The US Naval has been ruthless with their sound weapons.

[Zuni]

38. But it cannot cause a 50 foot shift of a tectonic plate

you would need unimaginable power to do that.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. I heard a discussion of this on Thom Hartmann today....

[bones_7672]

3. Yeah, too bad about that Big Oil / Krakatoa thing. Oh, and the

Giant Lumber Industry / Ice Age thing.

[Ian David]

4. It's been getting locked because it's stupid

This has been debunked to death.

Here ya go, this is for you:

[Slit Skirt]

7. excuse me....

the thread got locked because someone put an article in LBN without using the title of the article in the subject line. this article that I have used was not even part of the discourse....

I find you very, very rude....

read the article....whales and dolphins are being beached...they don't know why and are investigating....

if it is so stupid, why are environmentalists asking the Australian government to stop the soundbombing....

[pmbryant]

9. Bringing up the far-away earthquakes is the sketchy part

The soundbombing is a very legitimate concern. But the author destroys his own credibility by trying to link this to major earthquakes hundreds and thousands of miles away.

--Peter

[Slit Skirt]

10. I think one must consider the force of energy

to upset the ocean floor with larged decibals of sound waves could/might have a domino effect...my thoughts are that energy is energy..and it has to be released somewhere....

isn't there a law of physics...for every force there is an equal and opposite force?

anyway...thanks for your thoughts

[RafterMan]

18. Yes, you have to consider the energy

In this case, it is like saying a rocket taking off in Florida could cause an earthquake in California.

There's just not enough energy there.

[Zynx]

27. Yes, there are laws of physics

Many of which this idea violates.

Sound bombing releases virtually no energy - simply as much as is in the individual depth charges. It is not amplified.

The idea that this somehow released untold gigatons of earthquake energy is only slightly less asinine than all the "secret nuke testing causes earthquake" posts.

[Zuni]

40. This earthquake was cause by a 50 foot shift in a tectonic plate

there is NO way a sound bomb could move a plate a centimeter

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuni]

39. Beachewd dolphins are one thing---nothing man has could cause a 9.0

earthquake. Simply not possible. That has more power than every nuke ever assembled.

[cali]

5. This again.

Please take your tin foil elsewhere. Hope this thread gets locked as well.

[Slit Skirt]

8. nice Cali...

I have been posting here for awhile...I don't have a 1000 + votes...but I do donate...thanks for your kind consideration

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rockerdem]

17. Heh ----- need heavier gauge foil

measured in inches, not mils.

[Boosterman]

48. hehe n/t

[goforit]

22. Thanks for your exposure Cali.

LOL!!!

[Maple]

6. Tsk....so much denial

[vpigrad]

12. Why so many uses of the dirty word lock?

It's a shame that people that clame to be progressive want to control the discussion like you would normally expect a fascist to do.

[Slit Skirt]

13. thanks for your support oem

[satori]

14. The Ultimate Weapon: "Owning the Weather" for Military Use

Centre for Research on Globalisation
The Ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction:
"Owning the Weather" for Military Use
by Michel Chossudovsky

27 September 2004

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html

Meanwhile, ARCO which had sold APTI to E-Systems, had itself been acquired by the BP-AMOCO oil consortium, thereby integrating the largest oil company in the World (BP).

Environmental warfare is defined as the intentional modification or manipulation of the natural ecology, such as climate and weather, earth systems such as the ionosphere, magnetosphere, tectonic plate system, and/or the triggering of seismic events (earthquakes) to cause intentional physical, economic, and psycho-social, and physical destruction to an intended target geophysical or population location, as part of strategic or tactical war." (Eco News)

Weather Warfare: A Corporate Bonanza

HAARP has been operational since the early 1990s. Its system of antennas at Gakona, Alaska, was initially based on a technology patented by Advanced Power Technologies Inc. (APTI), a subsidiary of Atlantic Ritchfield Corporation (ARCO). The first phase of the HAARP Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) was completed by APTI. The IRI system of antennas was first installed in 1992 by a subsidiary of British Aerospace Systems (BAES) using the APTI patent. The antennas beam into the outer-atmosphere using a set of wireless high frequency transmitters.

[Slit Skirt]

15. thanks for the link! n/t

[Zynx]

29. Lord is that silly, physics-raping BS

I'd debunk it point-by-point, except that the entire PRINCIPLES are wrong.

[theboss]

35. Wasn't this the plot of Superman III?

Where is Richard Pryor when we really need him?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Slit Skirt]

19. out of touch with reality....?

I just posted an article...there are more articles that other people have posted that question what the oil companies are doing to our environment...why do you question the legitimacy of any of it?
Do you not acknowledge cause and effect...do you really think that if you upset the ecology of the ocean floor that it will not show up somewhere else? One of Newton's law of physics states that for every force there is an equal and opposite force. I posted an article for thought....I think it would do the world a lot of good to stop this soundbombing until we can find out what kind of effects it is having on our world. Ecologists are taking this very seriously...if you do not fine. But "out of touch with reality" is a little far fetched....if you don't agree and feel this is nonsense....don't respond and move on...

[Zynx]

30. Uh, yeah, you are

Cause and effect? For someone who is quoting Newton, you seem to have a horrible understanding of physics.

[Boosterman]

49. Equal and opposite aint going to cut it

you might be able to make it fly with some sort of chaos theory type of effect.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

23. Thanks for the chuckle n/t

[OutsourceBush]

24. Could a nuke have caused it?

[Zynx]

31. No.

Nukes cause localized groundshock earthquakes that can be detected on seismographs in the area, and by very sensitive seismographs around the world.

There is no firm theory on whether or not nukes can trigger larger earthquakes if you set them off on fault lines. Some people think they would, other people think they would just release some pent-up energy and thus lessen the damage major quakes do, and some think it would do jack-all, because of how the earth is actually constructed.

I tend to lean towards jack-all. If small earthquakes - the only relevent part of a nuke detonation given the thickness of plates relative to nuke craters - could trigger large earthquakes, we would have a lot more large earthquakes, as the New Madrid Seismic Zone and San Andreas both throw off lots of minor shocks. 99.9999999% of small earthquakes do *nothing* other than shake a little bit. Nuclear groundshock would fall in this catagory.

The idea that somehow, someone detonated a nuclear weapon in a sea trench and caused a 9.0 is one of the dumbest, most ignorent things I have ever read on the internet.

[jdj]

32. Gosh I hate to say this

But you must be really new to the internet.

[satori]

33. Underground Nuclear Testing Induced Earthquake Opinion and References

Counterpunch
Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Nuclear Testing
Unnatural Disaster?
December 30, 2004
By LILA RAJIVA

http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12302004.html

Q: What are some other disturbances that can cause tsunamis?

A: Landslides or explosions such as underwater nuclear testing.

Q: Is underwater nuclear testing common?

A: Yes, The United States has conducted 1,054 tests of nuclear devices between July 16, 1945 and September 23, 1992. Before 1962, all the tests were atmospheric (on land or in the Pacific or Atlantic oceans) but overall the majority - 839 - were underground tests. From 1966 to 1990, 167 French nuclear test explosions have been performed on two atolls in French Polynesia, Morurua and Fangataua. Of the 167 tests, 44 were atmospheric. Atmospheric explosions were carried out until 1974, but only underground tests after that. The underground tests have been conducted at the bottom of shafts bored 500-1200 meters into the basalt core of the atoll. Initially these shafts were drilled in the outer rim of the atoll. In 1981, most likely due to the weakening of that rim, the tests with higher yields were shifted to shafts drilled under the lagoon itself.


Underground Nuclear Test Induced Earthquake References

http://www.nyx.net/~dcypser/induceq/nis.html

Dean S. Carder, Seismic Ground Effects from Nuclear Explosions, Engineering Geology Case Histories No. 8, 11, Geological Society of America (1970)

I.N. Gupta, W.W. Chan & R.A. Wagner, Comparison of Regional Phases from Underground Nuclear Explosions at East Kazakh and Nevada Test Sites, 82 Bull. Seismol. Soc. Am. 352 (1992)

Gary Boucher, Alan Ryall & Austin E. Jones, Earthquakes Associated with Underground Nuclear Explosions, 74 J. Geophys. Res. 3808 (1969)

H. Sagdiev & E. Juhasova, Seismic Effect of Underground Explosions, Earthquake Engineering: Proc. 16th Regional European Seminar on Earthquake Engineering, Emilia Juhasova, ed; A A , Rotterdam, 271 (1992)

[Zuni]

43. But there was no nuclear test, and this was caused by an earthquake

it would take thousands of nuclear tests all at once to budge a plate, much less shift it 50 feet

[satori]

44. USAF Papers-Underground nuke testing is difficult to detect

The USAF published The Counter proliferation Papers in 1999 saying that top secret underground Nuclear testing in a hollowed out cavern is difficult to detect.

September 1999
Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army
The Counterproliferation Papers
Future Warfare Series No. 2
USAF Counterproliferation Center
Air War College
Air University
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama

Underground testing in a hollowed out cavern is difficult to detect. A West Germany Army Magazine, Wehrtechnik, in June 1976, claimed that Western reports documented a 1963 underground test in the Negev. Other reports show a test at Al-Naqab, Negev in October 1966.83

A bright flash in the south Indian Ocean, observed by an American satellite on 22 September 1979, is widely believed to be a South Africa-Israel joint nuclear test. It was, according to some, the third test of a neutron bomb. The first two were hidden in clouds to fool the satellite and the third was an accident—the weather cleared.84

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

[satori]

45. Underground nuke tests causes a wave to ricochet around inside the earth

I am not a scientist and I only took a physics course in college, but it seems to me that the general current opinion about underground nuclear explosions causing earthquakes, is not so much the actual explosive power of the nuke in comparison to the explosive power of a earthquake and then weighing which has more weight or explosive power then the other that can cause a earthquake but rather of the nuke setting off or triggering a chain reaction around the world of earthquakes by causing plates to shift that are already unstable by nature so that the earthquake that might go off in say 5000 years in time in nature from now goes off in real time because the nuke as a trigger causes the earthquake to go off earlier in time, then it naturally would and again the Nuke shifts the hazard to an earlier time then nature had intended thus it is a man made earthquake for the following reasons quoted from the well written opinion Mechanical Pollution:

In spite of the current interest in earthquake-earthquake triggering, anthropogenic earthquakes remain largely off our profession's radar screen.

Triggering only shifts the hazard in time." When triggered, an earthquake occurs earlier than it would have naturally because a perturbation raised the stress to failure prematurely. An area undergoing industrialization may experience a burst of anthropogenic earthquakes and thus an increase in seismicity and hazard.

http://www.seismosoc.org/publications/SRL/SRL_73/srl_73-3_op.html


The Costal Post article http://www.coastalpost.com/96/4/5.htm says that underground nuclear explosions can trigger internal wave reactions that ricochet around inside the earth which can cause hurricanes, volcanic activity, and earthquakes in all different parts of the planet.

For example, the Coastal Post:

When the Coastal Post began this series on a possible connection between nuclear underground tests and earthquakes, it was to commemorate the signing of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. Within a month, the Chinese resumed testing and the French announced they soon would.

With volcanic activity, a day after the Chinese test of August 17, a dormant volcano erupted on Montserrat in the Caribbean.

May 17, the Chinese test registered 6.1 ground zero, 16 hours later there was a 7.7 quake in the Indonesian triangle. Fourteen hours later there was a 6.5 aftershock.

Responding to the military's claim that test and quakes are coincidence, Dr. Whiteford states, "The geographical patters in the data, with a clustering of earthquakes in specific regions matched to specific test dates and sites, do not support the easy and comforting explanation of 'pure coincidence'."

[shance]

50. Interesting stuff Satori. Thanks for posting.

Don't sweat the Cro Magnons. They just like to beat their chest and roar alot.

I think they're still into the earth is flat thing. We can always hope for a little progress.

[theboss]

34. There have been some shockingly dumb postings today

During a normal month, this would be the most ridiculous idea presented. However, I'm not sure this is in the top three of the day.

[TrustingDog]

36. talking about 'ridiculous' ideas... think back about 10 years ago...

if someone would mention massive election fraud in the US... or the fact you'd have Gorge the Idiot as your leader...

get my point?

[FDRrocks]

42. Or if you consider the butterfly effect...

This does not seem tha far fetched at all.

[shiina]

41. we're f*cking up the world in lots of ways we don't understand

this could be one of them

The butterfly effect...a little blast here, a little shift there, a little blast here, a big earthquake there...

[timtom]

46. I cannot believe the consummate stupidity

of the responses to this poster. There are 3 appropriate responses to this idea.

Response #1 - "I think I tend to agree with this idea."

Response #2 - "I think I disagree with this idea."

Response #3 - "I'm not certain I agree or disagree with this idea."

Nowhere -- and I mean NOWHERE is mockery, invective, or arrogant superiority to be considered a viable response to this or any other speculative question.

I am shocked and embarrassed at the rudeness and lack of critical thinking skills shown by most of the responses to Slit Skirt's post.

And nowhere in this diatribe do I reveal whether or not I believe this theory.

[Zynx]

47. This is not worthy of an intelligent response.

This is so utterly ridiculous it is beyond comprehension.

[timtom]

51. What, exactly is not worthy of an intelligent response?

MY post, or the original one.

In any event, YOUR response certainly doesn't qualify as intelligent.

It is dismissive, offers no edifying information, and it is rude.

[RafterMan]

54. My post #18 is

Underwater sonar is reasonably close in sound energy to an above-ground rocket. Florida to California is a reasonably close approximation to eastern Australia to western Indonesia. Would a reasonable person find a link?

It is so intuitively unlikely that people dismiss it out of hand. Why is that outrageous?

[timtom]

57. Are you responding to my posts?

I am not addressing the yea or nay of it at all.

I was addressing the supercilious and dismissive tone of many of the responses. There is nothing wrong with good, healthy debate. But, several posts were nothing more than name-calling. I still have not indicated what I do or do not believe on the subject of human intervention causing the tectonic shift.

The spiteful, mean responses just brought to mind the detractors of Copernicus. That's all. No one has a firm grip on "reality." All investigation ultimately boils down to a basic ambiguity.

I am also reminded of the responses to Cynthia McKinney's assertion that maybe we need to investigate 9/11 more deeply and critically. For, we still don't know what really happened. Do we? And yet, rather than address any investigation, pundits started calling her a nutcase, loony tunes, and other ad hominem epithets. Zell Miller didn't say, "Hey. Let's DO investigate this. I'm sure that evidence will vindicate the official story." What he did say was, roughly, "This is dangerous thought. We mustn't question the official version."

[RafterMan]

58. They laughed a Copernicus

They also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

It's fine to question the official version. But before you do, why not grab a calculator and hit google? Dismissiveness is not an inappropriate response to one who is too lazy to do so.

[shance]

52. umm.....Nathan?

You totally rock.

;-)

[Boosterman]

53. Good point

We should all try to be civil. You can shoot down the OPs idea but still be decent about it.

[Robbien]

55. And the rude posters are repeatedly posting their rudeness

They are not posting their disbelief and scorn just once, but are repeatedly beating the drum, over and over spreading hatred all over the thread.

Nathan,

:yourock: