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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:56 AM
Original message
The Fallujah massacre
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:58 AM by eleonora
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4012005.stm

-snip-

Outside the US base in central Falluja, bodies lie in the streets, being gnawed at by dogs and cats.

This will pose a serious public health risk for any refugees who might eventually want to return
, says the BBC's Paul Wood who is with US marines.

-snip-

And they say they don't need humanitarian help?? WTF

-snip-
US soldiers say house searches have yielded many weapons caches
-snip-

And if they searched every house in the US, wouldn't they find weapons too?? Does this make every american family terrorists, or by comparison, every family in Fallujah??

-snip-
The US military says it has killed about 1,200 militants. 38 US soldiers have been killed and 275 wounded so far. 6 Iraqi government troops have also died.
-snip-

When will this stupid attack be over?? We knew they were going to attack Fallujah days in advance. WHY oh WHY advertise an attack, so insurgents can leave to other cities before they strike?? And are we sure those 1,200 were insurgents or scared people defending their houses against the intruder??

-snip-
one US officer said it could take a month to restore water supplies properly in the city.
-snip-

Can you survive a WHOLE MONTH without water??

Grrr..what a fucked up mess this is.

If we were to think like them:

1) How can you make the difference between civilians and insurgents? WHO ARE the insurgents?

2) Of the surviving CRUSHED residents, HOW MANY WILL BECOME insurgents because of those senseless deaths??

I DON'T believe for a minute there were next to no civilian casualties.

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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. A healthy adult can survive for four days
without water before requiring hospitalization, after 4 days you'd be flat on your back. Of course, for the elderly and children, much less.
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. right, so the whole month deal is a death sentence
And I bet they said it so casually.
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zbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. My guess is that the "defense" will be:
The residents of Fallujah were warned that the invasion was coming. The civilians were told to leave. Therefore, those who remained in the city were the "insurgents", and thus, there were no civilians left in the city. Anyone non-coalition person killed in Fallujah was therefore "fair game".

Flawed reasoning, yes, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this "defense".
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's my prediction also
-- and when we listen/read what the people who stayed behind -- they wanted to guard against looting. Hurricane warning ignored -- people want to remain to protect against looting.

Are these the "insurgents"?



more photos here

http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. ugh...I wouldn't be surprised either
But damn, if we were in the same exact situation, most men would stay home to defend what meager possessions they have. BUT of course nobody can see that.
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zbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I know many supporters of this disastrous war in my little corner of
Repug hell here in SW Michigan. I have asked them many times what they would have done if some foreign power invaded the US to depose President Clinton (can't use *, because they LUV him). They refuse or are incapable of making the connection that they would do EXACTLY the same thing that the Iraqis are doing, fighting with every fiber of their being to take back THEIR COUNTRY from the invading hordes. I don't understand it. But then again, how many * supporters make a connection to anything?
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh man, this is so obscene. Surreal.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:13 AM by nine23
"Military civil affairs teams are poised to begin giving out millions of dollars in compensation."

I'm at a loss for words. I just don't know what to say here. Not to be dramatic, but I think I'm gonna puke.


edit: spelling.

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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. and to whom??
Who will get the money? What a sick joke. We can come and kill you, but we'll pay ya so smile!
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I'm feeling it again. Disconnect.
"Military civil affairs teams are poised to begin giving out millions of dollars in compensation." (BBC, Fallujah)

"Life is a creation. Not a commodity." (George W. Bush)


You horrible, evil fucking liar.


Sorry guys. I think I'm feeling it again. The disconnect.

I started coming to DU about three weeks ago, pre-election. I needed a place to curb the anti-American sentiments that have been festering within me for the last two years. "You know there's a lot of good about America", I'd say. "Ditch the mainstream media, go online and find it". With DU, I found an oasis of sanity in a country which appears to have gone completely fucking insane.

But it's getting very, very fucking hard to maintain any good feelings about your country right now...

I'll keep trying. I know it's not you guys, but your gonna have to bear with me, and understand just how easy it is for us outsiders to dislike each and every one of you when you're handing it to us on a plate like this.



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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Full-scale "liberation" underway.
The U.S. silence on the Falluja attack tells me everything I need to know about how far down the humanity ladder we`ve slipped. Hell....let`s just tune into Wolf Blitzer or maybe Charlie Gibson and listen to a few more interviews with military hard-liners on our big success in killing the "enemy."

If a government bombed our cities, changed our currency, killed our relatives, raided our houses, tore down our statues, installed puppet "leaders", shut off our electricity and water, took over our oil fields, tortured us, gave our jobs to their own independent contractors or corporate bigwigs....would we be "terrorists" if we fought back?

We`re silent on all this because freedom-lovers never have to say they`re sorry. Even bodies rotting on Iraq`s streets won`t stop us from our celebatory chants and puffed-up grandiosity. We`re number one...number one...number one. Do what we want or we`ll kill you because we can.



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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. it pisses me off when I hear idiots claim Iraqis should be glad
they're 'learning freedom'. How stupid a nation we have become is mind boggling
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Read up on Fallujah.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:34 AM by anarchy1999
)

FALLUJA
One major reason for the decline in attacks is that the US forces have finally accepted some responsibility for the 28 April massacre in Falluja. After the fall of the regime, local citizens took over the running of this western town. US forces barged in and occupied the local school as a military base, without consultation. During a demonstration on the evening of 28 April, nearly three weeks after the fall of the regime, US soldiers fired on the crowd outside the school, killing 13 civilians immediately.

The official US account was that 25 armed civilians, mixed in with the crowd and also positioned on nearby rooftops, fired on the soldiers of the 82nd Airborne, leading to a ‘fire-fight’. (BBC News Online, 29 April 2003)

Phil Reeves, a reporter for the Independent on Sunday, conducted a careful independent investigation and concluded that the official story was a ‘highly implausible version of events’. Witnesses interviewed by Mr Reeves ‘stated that there was some shooting in the air in the general vicinity, but it was nowhere near the crowd.’ US Lieutenant Colonel Eric Nantz admitted that the bloodshed occurred after ‘celebratory firing’, but he claimed that the firing came from the crowd. (BBC News Online, 29 April 2003)

However, all the witnesses Phil Reeves could find agreed that there was no ‘fire-fight’ nor any shooting at the school, and that the crowd had no guns. The Independent journalist observed:

The evidence at the scene overwhelmingly supports this. Al-Ka’at primary and secondary school is a yellow concrete building about the length and height of seven terraced houses located in a walled compound. The soldiers fired at people gathered below them. There are no bullet marks on the facade of the school or the perimeter wall in front of it. The top floors of the houses directly opposite, from where the troops say they were fired on, also appear unmarked. Their upper windows are intact. (Independent on Sunday, 4 May 2003, p. 17)

There were bullet holes in an upper window, ‘but they were on another side of the school building.’ (Independent, 30 April 2003, p. 2) The Telegraph’s report of the bullet holes failed to mention this fact. (p. 10)

Dr Ahmed Ghanim al-Ali told reporters at Falluja Hospital, ‘Medical crews were shot by soldiers when they tried to get to the injured people.’ (Mirror, 30 April 2003, p. 11)

BLOOD MONEY
The US failed to accept that those killed in the massacre were unarmed; failed to pay compensation to the relatives of the dead or to the injured; and failed to investigate the massacre and punish those responsible. The result was predictable. After the massacre, Falluja became the most dangerous place in Iraq for US occupation forces. The headmaster of the school, who had lost three teenage pupils in the massacre, told Phil Reeves calmly that he was willing to die as a ‘martyr’ to take his revenge against the US troops. (Independent, 30 April 2003, p. 2)

The 28 April massacre was soon being airbrushed out of history. Reporting from Falluja on a US operation on 16 June 2003, the Telegraph (p. 10), the Guardian (p. 10), and the FT (p. 6) all referred to recent attacks on US soldiers in the town, and local hostility, without mentioning the massacre.

The introduction of a new US brigade in June allowed the occupation forces to stage a climbdown. First: a withdrawal of US forces from the town. (Washington Post, 12 July 2003, p. A11) Secondly, US Army officers ‘delivered formal apologies to local tribal sheiks and paid blood money for every dead and injured person deemed not to be a combatant... $1,500 for a death and $500 for an injury... Officers have ordered soldiers to knock on doors before conducting most residential searches. They have also permitted the mayor to field a 75-member armed militia and doled out nearly $2 million on municipal improvements instead of waiting for private American contractors to arrive.’ (Washington Post, 29 July 2003, p. A01)

‘When the 2nd Brigade arrived, the prevailing view among U.S. commanders was that the attacks were being conducted almost exclusively by Hussein loyalists who had the support of other residents... Over time, the brigade’s officers came to realize Fallujah was more traditional than Baathist. Much of the animosity toward U.S. forces was driven by perceived slights of tribal and religious traditions. Several people here said attempts to search women prompted so much humiliation for male relatives that some of them joined the mobs throwing rocks and shooting at U.S. convoys.’ (WP, 29 July)

It seems that much of the resistance is revenge for unpunished and uncompensated US killings, not a Saddamist conspiracy.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:gUDUTWfyyKIJ:www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/JNV_briefing047.htm+fallujah,+april,+2003&hl=en

and another:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0617-01.htm
Published on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 by OneWorld.net
U.S. Account of Fallujah Killings Contradicted by Rights Group
by Jim Lobe

A major U.S. human rights group charged Tuesday that the account given by the U.S. military of two protests that resulted in the deaths of 20 Iraqi demonstrators appears to be incorrect. It called for an independent and impartial investigation by U.S. authorities of the two incidents in al-Fallujah in central Iraq.

New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW) challenged the military's contention that its troops came under direct fire in either of the April 28 and April 30 incidents. The group also took issue with the military's insistence that its soldiers responded with "precision fire" against what they assumed to be Iraqi gunmen.

Separately, Amnesty International reiterated its call for the UN Security Council to immediately deploy human rights monitors to Iraq.


Iraqi school boys stage an anti-American protest in their school in Falluja, 30 miles west of Baghdad, May 20, 2003. U.S. troops occupying the school premises had shot dead at least 15 Iraqis during a demonstration on April 28, fueling anger at their presence. REUTERS/Jamal Saidi

In the six weeks since the fatal demonstrations al-Falluja, located about 35 miles west of Baghdad, has become a major center of resistance to the U.S. occupation. At least four U.S. soldiers have been killed in a series of guerrilla attacks, while many more have been injured


This is a human disaster, and I thought we all swore "never again".

We are a nation of war criminals. Hated around the world. Picture your own little suburb of 250,000 people and then go forward. What would you do? Just imagine, if you can, last night your brother, sister, wives and husbands, nieces and nephews, along with your mom and dad were wiped out by a "smart bomb" on an "identified insurgent strong hold". What would you do, how would you feel? I think I know where I would be.





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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. dammit! . . . we're gonna save this country even if it takes . . .
killing every one of these brown-skinned heathens! . . . how do you tell an insurgent from a civilian? . . . you don't; you just shoot first and ask questions later . . . and if you're lucky, there won't be anyone left alive to ask question TO . . . oh, the glory of empire! . . .

U-S-A, All the Way! . . . Yea Team! . . . :puke:
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