Salon: Election Was NOT Stolen

[Killarney]

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/11/10/voting/
The system is clearly broken. But there is no evidence that Bush won because of voter fraud.
By Farhad Manjoo

Did John Kerry actually win the presidency? If you've spent any time online this week, you've no doubt heard this argument: The election was stolen. Corrupt officials, rigged voting machines, a sleepy media and a Democratic Party that's been less than fully aggressive in its efforts to counter Republican dirty tricks came together to subvert the true will of the people.

There's little question that the American election process is a mess, and needs to be cleaned up. But even if this particular election wasn't perfect, it was still most likely good enough for us to have faith in the results. Salon has examined some of the most popular Kerry-actually-won theories currently making the rounds online, and none of them hold up under rigorous scrutiny.

more...

[liberal N proud]

1. Still more BUSHSHIT

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Who the hell is Farhad Manjoo?

A Bush Operative?

[peekaloo]

27. let's rechristen him Fathead ManGoo

}(

[sangh0]

42. Yes, let's make fun of the furriner's name

How progressive!

[peekaloo]

45. me so sorry

feelin' regressive today.

aimed at his turn about as posted below.

*shame*

[KittyWampus]

60. Like Many DU'ers Don't Make Fun Of OTHER GOP Enabling Names?

this is the kind of Political Correctness that makes me sick.

I'm not fond of making fun of people's names or appearances and don't do it personally.

However, riffing off GOP cronies and mediawhores names is a time honored tradition here.

Stuff the PC bullshit.

[sangh0]

67. Stupid freeper logic

"Either you're with us or you're against us" logic

This writer isn't a GOP crony. Here's the list of articles the author has written:

http://www.byliner.com/writer/?id=2163

Stuff the PC bullshit.

Yep, criticize anyone that disagrees in the slightest with you for being a "GOP crony" and follow it by repeating freeper-propoganda about "PC bullshit"

[JHB]

37. Not hardly

You can check a list of his articles here:

http://www.byliner.com/writer/?id=2163

Not everyone who's a bit more reserved on this subject is a "Bush operative". Shhesh.

[HEAVYHEART]

3. Grrrr...

Salon can kiss my ass. Why even bother posting this shit for others to see? My blood curdles when I hop on DU and I see this kind of bullshit for all to see. Let's kick the threads up top, the threads that clearly indicates that the election was indeed stolen. Let's bury this one because it's a bunch of bullshit!


:grr:

[EPV101773]

4. I think

With all the voting problems Kerry was probably a bit closer to GWB's winning number. But, I do believe that Bush won. There are conspiracy theorists all over the internet who think Kerry is going to come dressed in his Superman cape with proof that Bush cheated- I dont. (Would I like to? YES! Is it going to happen? NO)

Everyone needs to wake up and get focused. Kerry did an amazing job during this election & I think the numbers prove that.

There is NO WAY he is going to come out now and say he won. It would be horrible for America. It really would. Rioting would start- those Republican extremists would lose their minds. And people like that would start a smear campaign against him that would ruin him politically.

Focus everyone...... on 2006. And then on 2008.

Kerry is taking this like a man & looking to the future (and possibly another run for 08). We should follow his lead.

[HEAVYHEART]

6. NO

Fuck that. I'm not focusing on 2006 or 2008. We need to get to the bottom of the issue at hand, VOTER FRAUD. That's all I can focus on at this point.

[formernaderite]

56. I think there was probably voter fraud on BOTH sides....

...but yes, I'd like it all done away with.

[Mandate My Ass]

10. Bush is horrible for America

Let them take to the streets, we did before the invasion and nothing came of it. You can focus on whatever you want. Just don't ask others to drink the kool-aid with you.

[EPV101773]

19. Mandate

YOUR RIGHT!!!!!!!
GWB IS horrible for America.

But we are stuck with his lame ass for 4 more years.

NOW WHAT?

[charlie]

26. We could start

by not conceding that he has a "mandate."

[Mandate My Ass]

29. We're not "stuck" until he's sworn in

A lot of good people are putting a lot of hard work into voter fraud investigations. I'm doing what I can to help them. If we don't do this now, there will never be another marginally trustworthy election in this country again.

The man has no mandate, never did, and I want that to become clear. This election is bigger than John Kerry v. George Bush. This is about fighting for democracy.

[badmrbunny]

15. You are making sense.

I really appreciate your post. We are beginning to look like whiners. The 2000 election, we had alot to bitch about. This one we lose by millions of votes. I just don't understand why Kerry didn't pound on the economy and jobs more.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. Obvious.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kikiek]

31. I agree with you. The voting issue needs to be resolved so we can

feel confident that the elections aren't being stolen. There are changes to make, and hopefully this will prove it. There are many races coming up that are just as important because it will affect the power in Congress. I heard we can filibuster judges for the next 4 years if Bush tries to put funndie ones in, and expect that they will. We need to support our reps we have, and get them some back up in 2006. I think Kerry would have been a wonderful president, and would not have given up easily. He is a fighter all the way.

[Party_like_its_1984]

39. They say the New Hampshire re-count is approved, so we'll know

...soon

[kikiek]

44. Good news. I want to see more reporting on the lack of voting machines

which is voter suppression. I think all people would agree that if a person gets an hour to vote then it is the governments responsibilty to make sure they get to in that hour. It does vary from state to state just like early voting. I would like to see a National week of voting. If they really want people to vote it wouldn't be 1 day only for a limited number of hours. I believe we need to come up with solutions for that too. Call this administrations bluff on claims of wanting democracy! We all know they don't, but take advantage of their proclamations and fix some of the problemss that suppress it.

[SmokingJacket]

69. I agree this is a big problem.

In my semi-ritzy neighborhood I've never had to wait more than five minutes or so. Clearly the machine-per-capita ratio is very low. Making people stand in line for hours is WAY undemocratic, because you know those people are NOT Bill and Miranda Gates.

If there's no money for more machines, fuck machines, and go paper.

Plus it should all be very open -- tallying should take place on television or at least on videotape.

Feh, who's gonna listen, though. The powers that be got us right where they want us.

[Arianrhod]

32. Oh, fuck that.

Kerry is not "taking this like a man". He's taking it like a pussy. That's why we Deaniacs rent our garments when Kerry received his ill-begotten DLC blessing.

Kerry walked away before all the counts were in. If that's what you call "manhood", then maybe you should go talk to California's Gropenfuehrer. He has a term for you.

My own term is "GOP codependent".

[Dora]

57. "Rioting would start"

Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing, especially if it was the Republicans rioting. They must be exposed as the animals they are.

We're only asking that our elections process be treated with the honor and security it deserves and was always intended to have.

Republicans have NO REASON to be angry with us -- they "won" the election, after all. A little magnanimity is called for, but instead they continue to spew their hateful spurge in our direction.

They're angry because they're wrong and they know it. It has always been the case.

[springhill]

68. I would like to know how they know this was a fair election...

When you don't even know what the machines did with the votes? How in the hell can they know? Nobody does. And to suggest that we can just focus on 2006 or 2008 without getting rid of these machines is fruitless. Now, I hate to say this, but even in 2000 tons of "liberal" commentators kept quiet about the stole election. Why do you think this year will be any different. I, for myself, am not going to dismiss out of hand the fact that almost every exit poll in the swing states had Kerry leading, a lead that just disappeared. And that every internal poll supported that. Tell me, please, anyone, before 2000 when the exit polls did not accurately reflect who the winner would be. Can someone please tell me, cause I don't know of a one.

[leftchick]

5. Holy Crap Has Manjoo ever flip-flopped...

I knew his name was familiar and googled. He has written several articles for Salon that were very negative about electronic voting. He has also extensively interviewed Bev. Here is one.....


http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=2710&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

[Killarney]

thanks for this info. I hadn't heard of him. I guess he's

knowledgable on the subject.

[HEAVYHEART]

11. Excuse me????

He's "knowledgeble" on the subject? I'm not accusing you or anything but that sure as hell sounds like something only a freeper would say.

[Killarney]

21. listen, mr. 65 posts, I have thousands

you're really pissing me off

I think it's more likely that YOU'RE a freeper because all your posts are just trying to start flame wars with established members.

You've been alerted. :) Enjoy.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEAVYHEART]

36. Ok

So my above response to you was deleted, by the admin I'm guessing. You're right. Because I only have 65 posts, I'm a nobody here. What I say mean nothing because I don't have a thousand posts like you. My country turns my back on me, and now DU. This really sucks.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEAVYHEART]

41. I was not attacking you

I was merely expressing my thoughts and my feelings. I have not talked to anybody at all since the election results, DU has been my saving grace and it's been very therapeutic. But I will take your advise. I'll go back to lurking as I'm obviously not welcomed here as a new poster. Thank you for the advise and I'm sorry if I've offended you.

[Hubert Flottz]

43. I wish we had a clapp off clapp on button!

WEll done!

[EPV101773]

8. I dont think he flip flopped

I think what he basically says is YES there were cases of fraud
but NO it wouldnt have made a difference.

Dont kid yourself- some Dems committed fraud as well!
And dont think Naderites didnt do it too.

I'm sick of all the junk. I think we are doing more harm to Kerry- and our party- than good.

Bottle this enthusiasm for change!! WE MUST DO ALOT OF WORK FOR 2006 and 2008. Republicans controlling everything = UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!

[leftchick]

12. quit with the 'we'

you don't speak for me. Simply don't post in this thread if you don't like what you read.

[EPV101773]

16. Leftchick

thats the problem with OUR party.
Too much of THIS

Currently we still live in a free country
and I will post as I see fit.

[King Coal]

66. It doesn't work that way here, EV.

If you talk the freep, you will be gone. So be careful.

:smoke:

[GCP]

7. It's yet another "analysis" that analyses nothing

This is equivalent to the hatchet job that abc news did last night. Some of the anomolies of the election can (maybe) be explained away, but the real stinkers, eg exit polls, are just swept under the rug - move along, nothing to see here:

To many Democrats, the most important bit of evidence pointing to a Kerry win is the exit polling data on Election Day. Although news agencies did not report the Election Day polls during the day, and no networks used the polls to call the race in close swing states, the polls, which were conducted by a consortium of news agencies called the National Election Pool, were leaked all over the Web. Those leaks seemed to show Kerry winning. And how could the polls have been so spectacularly wrong? Democrats wonder.


It's a good question, and at the moment, there's no answer, says Joe Lenski, who led the exit polling at Edison/Mitofsky Research, the firm that conduced the survey for the media. But Lenski says it's absurd to conclude from the surveys that the actual count is off. An exit poll is a survey, and surveys can fail. "The exit polls never said Kerry was going to win," he says. "The exit polls might have showed that Kerry was up in the national popular vote -- but it's still a survey with a margin of error, and every paying client knew from us that a 1- or 2-point lead is nothing that anybody would go to the bank with." It's worth noting that early exit polls in 2000 were also wrong, calling the race for Gore or Bush in various states where the other eventually won.

[EPV101773]

14. Puh-lease

I'm definately not saying all of these things shouldn't be investigated.
They should. Publicly. And the press should be reporting on this.
Where are the Woodward & Bernsteins of our time?!?!?!?!

What I am saying is that I haven't seen SOLID evidence that Kerry won the election. And I really really really dont think Kerry is going to get 1/2 this country into riot gear by saying he won.

Guys- if he had wanted to fight....... he would have. BEFORE he conceded. This isnt smoke and mirrors. He wasnt trying to outfox his opponents. HE CONCEDED. And he was serious.

Ack- all this conspiracy crap is making us look like idiots

[Stephanie]

51. "all this conspiracy crap is making us look like idiots"

Consider yourself outted.

Second clue: spelling.

[Bridget Burke]

62. We must be on to something....

So many new DU'ers who seem to have joined just to make us shut up about election fraud.

[Party_like_its_1984]

9. This is a crappy article full of claims with no evidence

For instance, I heard Greg Palast (who has a VERY solid track record) say that there are about 1/3 million spoiled punch-card votes in Ohio, predominantly in African American areas.

Manjoo's refutation of this, in total, is the following:

"Other theories pointing to a Kerry win are similarly brittle. It is extremely unlikely that there are enough spoiled punch-card ballots in Ohio to hand Kerry a victory there, as Palast asserts. "

That's it. Because of Manjoo's unsubstantiated claims, it is hard to take this article seriously at all.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Party_like_its_1984]

35. I'm an upstanding member of bartcop.com

Puhlease!

[Party_like_its_1984]

38. Election machines controlled by corporate pals of Bush

...with no way of checking the results is totally unacceptable ever!

[Jo March]

13. There's no fraud because I, Manjoo, say there isn't!

That is all. Go back to your lives citizens. Don't try to leave your internment camp again or we will "disappear" you.

[Silverhair]

23. Salon IS a well left-of-center site.

If there was valid evidence of an actual Kerry win, they would trumpet it. They DID carry an analysis showing that the butterfly ballot cost Gore FL in 00, and thereby the election. They are NOT on Bush's side. I accept Salon's analysis.

[Paxdora]

28. Salon needs to present both sides of issues

if they don't want to be smeared as a one-sided lefty rag...

[althecat]

24. Pillock

He cannot possibly claim to know this. I defended him over his first illconsidered blast on the subject... but now Manjoo has entered the realms of the moranic. Bugger...!!!

[Arianrhod]

25. Salon capitulated to the * administration

in 2001, posting stories supportive of the regime. I canceled my subscription at that time, and have seen no reason to reinstate it since.

[nolabels]

47. Several organizations seem to do this type of thing

Play left of the middle for most of it but when put push comes to shove they pull the rug. I have a problem with these kind groups mostly it's corporate media sources doing it. Though more and more have noticed independents and non-profits doing it.

This why it makes sense to suspect even the focus of all the subjects at hand just for this one reason alone. Asking yourself is it really that important in the development of the subject. The right wing think tanks and focus groups have been orchestrating what the subjects should be in the mass media for the last twelve plus years now. Our news is really not the news.

Their lies cannot even cover their lies anymore, and we are watching it.

[On the Road]

33. This is What I'm Afraid of:

Salon has examined some of the most popular Kerry-actually-won theories currently making the rounds online, and none of them hold up under rigorous scrutiny.

That's a true assertion, as far as I know. The election may have been stolen, but none of us has the evidence yet. The goal should be to raise enough questions to get a full investigation that can actually prove the theft.

Greg Palast's article was one of the more irresponsible. He claimed that because there were more uncounted ballots (provisional and absentee) and spoiled ballots than the official margin of victory, that means that Kerry won. Of course it doesn't, unless you assume that every one of those ballots is a vote for Kerry.

Stick to provable facts. Start a story that can be followed up as more information is uncovered. It doesn't matter if we can prove today that Kerry won -- that's the best way to establish it if it can ever be established.

[NicRic]

49. Investagation like9/11 commis ?

Where the real meat and patatoes of the commision are kept from the American people for their own good . The only investagation I would trust is one that gives who ever shows facts and proof the election was rigged gets a million $ ,after all lets face it the almighty dollar will get one of these thieves to sing like a bird !

[On the Road]

52. Not a Congressional Commission

I absolutely agree with you there.

The irregularities need real investigators and prosecutors, like the people investigating Enron.

[Lerkfish]

46. I keep asking: why do ALL the irregularities benefit Bush?

if they were truly glitches and abnomalities, one would expect them to fall at least somewhat equally for both candidates, or maybe only slightly to one over the other, due to the random nature of glitches.

yet, and YET, ALL glitches favored Bush. Can someone figure the odds of that for me?

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

48. Impossible to honestly claim that this election was fair

Anyone who tells you there has not been massive fraud is speculating. No one knows. It is impossible to know.

Anyone who tells you that massive fraud is not possible is showcasing their ignorance because we know the system was either designed to facilitate election-stealing or designed by complete morons who care less about security than even Micro$oft. (I hope both are true, because we have a better chance of catching fraud committed by morons.)

If you were going to design the perfect vote-stealing system, you would build what these completely unregulated Republican-controlled firms have built, operate, and "maintain." Our government elections personnel do not know how our votes are being counted. They cannot possibly ensure fairness:

• My laptop is more secure than these Diebold central tabulating machines (Not a challenge to hack in, please!) that appear designed to facilitate backdoor access.


• Changing "votes" is as simple as accessing the computer and modifying a Microsoft Access file that lacks even password protection.


• These machines have no paper trail and are designed to prevent auditing. There is no legitimate reason to ensure that our election results cannot be verified, yet the Repugs have fought (successfully) to accomplish exactly this. (Unauditability is not about privacy because there are clever methods for ensuring both privacy and verifiability.)


• Many (most?) elections people in precincts and counties across the country are baffled by the technology and utterly dependent on technicians from Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia, etc. Many elections officials accept these firms' wildly absurd "explanations" of "glitches" at face value.


• Access to the code that runs our elections is off limits! It's protected as trade secrets. It's also likely protected by the (unconstitutional) DMCA. I expect it's safe to say no election official is intimately familiar with the code that's "counting" our votes. The only reason we know the Diebold code is so horrible is because Diebold itself left its crown jewels unprotected on an FTP site on the Internet... apparently for years... and Bev Harris stumbled onto it. That sure inspires confidence in these firms' ability to secure computers from hackers, doesn't it?


• Bev Harris says certification of these machines occurred through a shadowy process that makes Watergate look like a government oversight operation. Ms. Harris (who has become my hero!) has reported that several groups whose evaluations were relied on by a certifying body (itself shadowy) wrote in their secret reports to the certifying body that security tests were "N/A." They didn't bother testing whether the machines were secure. Un-f-----'-believeable.


• In many states, Republican party hacks control the election process and appear hell-bent on operating in secrecy, not explaining how they arrived at their numbers, blaming "glitches" for any errors that are discovered, and blocking efforts to perform even minimal auditing (by comparing computer-recorded vote totals with the number of people who showed up to vote).


• The final feature of these machines that makes them so beautiful to a vote-stealer is plausible deniability. Even if 5% of Florida's Kerry votes were switched to Bush (or something like that), and even if intense focus and analysis detects the massive vote-changing, could we ever catch those responsible? If a software "error" caused the "glitch," they might fire a programmer or two, but no "elected" official would pay a price for the high crime. If a hacker broke in, election officials would say they had no idea someone was messing with their computers. It would require only a handful of people to systematically connect to the central tabulating computers and change all the votes. Could we catch the doer(s) and his/their connection with whoever is ultimately responsible for the vote-stealing? We still don't know who leaked Valerie Pflame's name, etc. This would be even harder to uncover, so the Repugs would likely escape blame. They would plead ignorance. They would probably even claim George Soros had framed them. Because they're the gutless wonders!

We need to educate journalists. Bev Harris obviously explained stuff to this reporter before, and he wrote about it. But he's now living in an echo chamber known as the "mass media." Educating journalists is now part of our mission. Let's find another Olbermann, then another, then another. (By the way, a shout out to "my man" Keith!) If we explain to them how atrocious our election equipment is, (I hope) they will explain it to the American people. Even if we knew there had been no vote fraud in 2004 (or 2002 or 2000), the mere fact that these machines exist and "count" our votes is a scandal waiting to happen.

We also need to lock down some of these machines ASAP (and turn them off too because there are reports from Bev Harris and at least one other person that suggest these machines have been communicating wirelessly with God-only-knows-who). We also need to control documentation on who voted in each precinct to match against vote totals. This is crappy "auditing," but it's better than nothing. And every day we delay is a day "they" can wipe their fingerprints clean and hide the body and the murder weapon.

I fear the Repugs' clever long-term campaign to seize control of local governments and work up to higher offices is paying dividends (and subverting our democracy) as election officials treat vote-counting as political spoils. I fear the Republicans have built a modern-day entrenched Tammany Hall-style machine... run literally by machine.

The scariest thing to me (*assuming* our election-stealing theories prove correct) is that if Iraq had had WMDs, no one would be challenging this administration right now. Ironically, Saddam Hussein (an evil dictator... please don't slander me for noting the irony) may have cracked Bush/Rove/Rummy's armor by NOT having WMDs. If we care about this nation, we need to demand the truth about this election, and stick a knife through Bush's armor *if* it proves he stole this election. I do not claim that he did. But anyone who feels certain this election was fair is deluding themselves.

[oc2002]

53. Excelent post. thanks. WE NEED TO GET THIS MESSAGE OUT!

Claiming fraud without absolute proof is not going to get us anywhere. Saying that they can not PROVE THE COUNTS from the tabulators due to no auditable paper trail IS THE POINT!

FRAUD AND ELECTIONS GO HAND IN HAND UNLESS THE PEOPLE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

63. Yes, this is about little "d" democracy, not big "D" Democrats

By definition, democracy requires fair elections. Mountains of suspicious circumstantial evidence are piling up that demand investigation. This is not a Dem/Rep issue or a liberal/conservative issue. This goes to the bedrock of our society. Unless the election winner fears he won fraudulently, he too should be pushing for an investigation to calm suspicions he won illegitimately (again).

Why is the media either silent about or contemptuous of calls to ensure fairness? Are we so afraid to threaten this administration's power? If there were no "evil-doers" this election cycle, then what's the harm in demanding that every vote be counted? The system of unauditable, easily-hackable electronic vote-counting appears designed to encourage fraud and prevent audits. This is insane.

PLEASE investigate before they can not only wipe clean their fingerprints but also hide the body and the murder weapon(s)! I'm not saying it DID happen, but it certainly MAY have happened. You can't catch a murderer without Law & Order.

Our media has ignored for a week its duty to serve as "the fourth branch of government." We castigate government-controlled media in China, Russia, and elsewhere, yet our "free" media reports on Scott Peterson and the latest "reality" TV show while ignoring disturbing facts that may point to a crooked election. Keith Olbermann has demonstrated that you can present the known facts of this story without drawing conclusions regarding how or why voting fraud did or did not occur.

(Because DU registration has been closed this week, I posted this on WashingtonDispatch.com, but it belongs here too. Also, I tried sending a private "thank you" for your kind words, but I'm too "green" to be allowed to send private messages.)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. wow...great first post...welcome to DU

[Mandate My Ass]

58. Welcome aboard

What an excellent post. I agree with what you said, particularly you emphasis on moving on this immediately, before they can hide their tracks.

Somehow though I believe the journalists are muzzled rather than uneducated. But they are paying attention to us (if only to refute us) but ultimately that is a good thing. We have to make noise.

They're done ignoring us and laughing at us, they are fighting us which is the last step before we win.

:hi:

[leftchick]

72. Holy Smokes! Excellent post!!

welcome to DU WhoWantsToBeOccupied!

:toast:

[Borgnine]

74. Beautiful post.

Welcome to DU!

[juajen]

76. For the third time, why can't we institute a recount ourselves, by

canvassing a suspicious, small, flipped county in Florida, by going door to door with the voting list and getting signed statements of voter's intentions on voting day. While this would take some time, I bet you would get enough volunteers. While this would not legally overturn the election, it would be prima facia evidence that the votes were flipped.

We could canvass only dem voters, because this is the total we want to verify. I mean counties where they are claiming that a huge number of dems flipped to the dark side.

WHY CAN'T THIS BE DONE? Please, somebody give me your opinion on the efficacy of this idea.

[goclark]

50. Once against the Rethugs frame the debate!

When will we ever learn!

I am so tired of it happening over and over and over again.

Palast, at the time that he wrote his story, had just a few pieces of the pie but he was smart enough to know something was fishy.

So what did Rove know that HIS media would do, use words like CONSPIRACY an INTERNETS TIN FOIL HATS and cry babies and poor losers.

And we play right into their hands.

We don't have a voice so we have to get out our message by any means necessary! So what if they think we are crazy! They are the crazy ones not us!

If there is anyone here that does not believe that the vote was suppressed, raise your hand!

Of course it was suppressed, there are hundreds of instances of that happening.

Anyone here believe that Rove was not up to his dirty tricks?

Anyone want to drink the kool aid and believe that Diebold is completely innocent and did nothing to "help" his little innocent machines to favor Bush! HE was bold enough to say that he would deliver Ohio to Bush! Guess what...surprise!

[donhakman]

54. All he said was that it was close enough for jazz

.

[goclark]

61. Jazz is beatiful but "My Vote Didn't Count" ain't pretty nt

[seabeyond]

59. they checked it out then that the 58000 absenteee vote

requests were honored then, and they were able to vote. each and everyone. and that is one of the smallest of the "ones"

[Zorra]

64. Unrecountable electronic voting devices that are remotely hackable

are proof in themselves that the election was stolen.

Do you think that these machines are hackable and not recountable because RW fascist meglomaniacs like Ken Blackwell and Glenda Hood are trustworthy non-partisan public servants, and would never try to fix an election? Electronic voting machines have been forced upon us by republicans because they make stealing elections a neat and clean process. No muss, no fuss, and no paper to be shredded - push a button and all the evidence is gone.

I was not born yesterday.

The bank President: "Well, Ms. Smith, I know you believe their was $100,000 in your savings account yesterday. But can you prove it?"

Ms. Smith: "But you said that I would not need a receipt for my deposits or any type of bank statements."

The bank President: "Ha Ha - tough luck lady - Security! Get this fool out of here"

Mr. Manjoo is talking out of his ass.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

65. Salon is, without any doubt, on our side and I trust them.

And thank them for this article!!

Personally I'm using my time to work to move forward and help get Govenor Dean elected DNC Chair. Anyone with me??

[bullimiami]

70. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

deny deny deny. never look. wtf ever happened to journalists who go get their own story instead of cobbling it together from the internet and opinion?

dixiecrats? bullshit. where were they in 2000? florida was almost a dead heat then? what war, poverty and destroyed economy made them love bush more? especially those black dixiecrats that apparently now voted for bush 65-70%..

his farhad is up his a$$ i guess.

[RyomaSakamoto]

71. I think the media doth protest too much

how the fuck would they know anyways since there hasn't been an investigation, yet.

if anything needs to be made into a federal case it is our RIGHT to VOTE.

psst... pass the word ;->

[Lorien]

73. They all got on board the same day, too

Salon, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, The Boston Globe...orders from Rove came down from on high. Forget about democracy and drink your Kool Aid!

[Chicago Democrat]

75. Canceling Salon Subscription!!!

How can anyone make any conclusions as yet?