If Kerry doesn't fight this, the Democratic Party will self-destruct

[TruthIsAll]

HE WON IT 51-48 AND HE WON'T TAKE IT?

HE WON FLORIDA WHERE VOTE COUNTS ARE ALL OVER THE MAP.
HE WON OHIO WHERE 330,000 MOSTLY BLACK VOTES REMAIN TO BE COUNTED.
HARD AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE OF FRAUD ABOUNDS.

The Dems have NO choice. They are dead in the water if they let Bush steal ANOTHER one. The party of tu-tus must STAND UNITED and force Kerry into the presidency, whether he wants it or not (sarcasm).

Its as simple as that.

[Carolab]

1. In actuality

It's about our democracy. It's about our votes. It's THAT simple.

[Erika]

17. The Southern States Show Themselves As the Joke They are

100% for Bush. Highest rates for lack of programs to the poor in the nation. Bush's most fervent supporters. They've lived in the banana republic and want to extend it to all.

[m berst]

23. look at it county by county

The red state - blue state divide is a little misleading. If you look at red county - blue county you get a different picture. Every state is a hodge-podge of red and blue.

The Southern states go Republican to some extent because they are more rural. There are rural counties in Michigan that are as Republican as any in the South, but Detroit offsets them.

[mhr]

2. I Agree - The Party Must Fight For America Even If We Lose The Recount

If we don't develop a set of balls now, we will forever be known as losers politically!

[Cleita]

3. I've been wondering if there isn't something more sinister

going on. It seems so odd to me that all these statesmenlike men are rolling over. Bribes? Not really likely. Threats? Blackmail? This is more likely. Go back to our lessons from Adolf and it starts making more sense. Another :tinfoilhat: theory.

[DELUSIONAL]

9. Anthrax?

If it is blackmail -- then they must have something over nearly all the democrats.

[Cleita]

11. I was thinking it was more personal, threatening their

families, but wow your theory is scary.

[DELUSIONAL]

13. It has to be something big

I understand that someone (bush family connected) visited Blair and get him in line before the invasion of Iraq.

At the time it was speculated that some sort of blackmail was involved.

Then we have McCain caving in to bush -- even after his family is insulted by the bush gang.

We are seeing one powerful person after another bowing down to bush -- when they have every reason to hate his guts.

Then there is the unresolved mystery of which department of defense connected person or group sent Anthrax to the Democratic leaders and some of the "liberal" media.

I was thinking personal -- but it seems to be some sort of threat that is universal -- not everyone is homosexual or has had an affair .. .

[BUSHOUT]

4. What are you referring to?

when you say 330,000 votes remain to be counted in OHIO?
I haven't heard that one yet.

And what's are "tu-tus"????

[tkmorris]

5. You know, tutus

As in the little poofy skirt thingys that ballerinas wear. Usually described as being pink.

[BUSHOUT]

15. So he thinks democrats are the party of poofy skirty thingys?? n/t

[TruthIsAll]

7. Have you read what Greg Palast has been saying lately?

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-36.htm

tia

[BUSHOUT]

16. Does that refer to the 330,000 votes you rerer to?

[m berst]

24. If that wasn't a Dem win...

.... there will never be one. Every indication says that Kerry won - new Dem registrations, turnout, polling, exit polls - every indication except the results from the non-auditable machines.

Kerry won, and he may have won big.

[R3dD0g]

10. Tutus are the

dresses that ballerinas wear.

I believe my good friend Bartcop originally coined that insult for the Dems. He's been featuring a pic of a handful of Dems (Kerry included) in tutus for many years now.

It refers to the reluctance of the Democratic party to challenge * between his selection in Dec 2000 and the election of Nov 2002 and beyond.

I think it's a little over the top. As the recent elections show, the Dems are not in a position to strongly challenge a 'war presnent'.

[DELUSIONAL]

6. I agree -- Rove gets his way and can do whatever he wants

2006 will be rigged as well.

Fight or die. Good-by two party system -- votes don't count.

[Cobalt Violet]

12. And that will be 4 in a row!

One way or another we have to win this one.

[Erika]

21. I totally agree,

But maybe we can change it if we hit them in the pocketbooks. That's what its all about to the GOP.

[kerrygoddess]

8. John Edwards said the votes would be counted

If they find something they will persue it.

There were plenty of reasons to not make something of this until it looked as though there was proof.

Give them a chance to to prove there was fraud.

[Cleita]

14. Kick

:kick:

[PlanetBev]

18. Guys, how do we know that 333,000 mostly Black votes haven't been counted?

I keep hearing this fraud stuff all over DU, but is it substantiated and are Kerry lawyers pursuing it? I want to believe it, but I was on a rumour roller coaster four years ago, hoping and praying Gore would pull it out and it wore me down. Please tell me that this is not tinfoil hat stuff.

Are the mainstream press interested in this stuff? Knowing them, they just want us to "move on" and "unite" for the sake of the country.

And, I agree, if the Kerry team just wimps away from this, I believe the party will go the way of the Whigs. Democracy Game Over.

[Cleita]

20. Problem is when you add two and two and

keep coming up with three, you start questioning things and don't throw any new math at me. You know what I mean.

[m berst]

25. not tinfoil

Some people are throwing out their theories and speculation, but there is nothing wrong with that.

The discussion is not dependent on any theory. This is the viewing of circumstantial evidence - using standard and reliable criteria for judging the validity of election results - that strongly suggests massive and widespread ballot tampering.

There is sufficient evidence to warrant a full investigation.

That's it. That's is all there could be at this point in any case, and all there needs to be at this point.

Had we demanded this in 2000 we wouldn't be where we are today. If we fail to demand it now, we may never get another chance.

[Erika]

19. George W Bush- the Anti Christ

or the beliefs of some is what we are up against.

[shoopnyc123]

22. It's up to us. NOT the Dems. eom

[Lorien]

27. Why? They have no responsibility to their supporters?

[Nay]

29. Why is it just up to us, the basically powerless? The leading Dems,

which got several hundred dollars of my money this time, and millions from Dems across the country, have a moral responsibility to pursue the people who are defrauding the voters. Period.

They have the money, the lawyers, the knowhow, the contacts, and the insider knowledge of Washington. WTF are they waiting for? Dec 12, when it's all over?

[Lorien]

26. I don't think they'll fight

it's getting too late for a fight to have any real momentum, either. I'm VERY disappointed in Kerry; from all accounts he refuses to believe in conspiracies (as if none have ever occurred in human history). He and Edwards have apparently had a falling out because Edwards wanted to wait 72 hours for the votes to be counted, but Kerry did not. He showed himself to be weak, and I don't think he can recover from that.

We all may have to find ourselves a new party. Maybe the Vermont Progressive party?

[sleipnir]

28. You're right, we're seeing the end of the Dem party.

They choose not to fight, they choose to end their Party. Really, though if they don't fight this I don't care if the Dem party goes the way of the Dinosaurs. Good riddance I say, let's get a party going that fights for the people, no matter what the odds. Or rather, let's dump the Dem leadership for those who care.