Why are you buying into the we lost because of gay

[LTRS]

marriage spin that the media is selling? It's merely a convenient scapegoat. Rove has been advancing cultural wedge issues to drive the nutty fundies to the polls for 4 yrs now.

Abortion, guns, the ban on stem cell research, and all of it. He used ALL those things to get the nutty fundies to the polls, but not a damn one of them wouldn't have already voted for Bush anyway. It's not like they flipped from Kerry to Bush because of gay marriage.

Damn, it isn't bad enough that we don't have any damn rights in this country, or that politicians try to win elections by stepping on our backs, but now the media spin and dems buying into it to.

When's the next fukkin bus to Canada?

[DrWeird]

1. Considering that Kerry was against gay marriage...

no.

[Claire Beth]

22. the evangelicals did not believe him.....

since he said he would not support a constitutional amendment that was like saying he DID support it. Bush et al took that and made gains with issue.

[freetobegay]

2. Because we are a esy scapegoat

& alot of people right here on DU proved that in the primaries.

[LTRS]

7. Well dems can KMA too then!

Because guess what? The democratic party has never done a single thing to help advance equal rights legislation at the federal level in this country. Not a single damn thing. And still we pony up 20 million dollars a year to help them get elected. Why, because they SAY they support equality. But yet they have never once stuck their neck out for us to get equality by getting us a vote on anything in the congress, even when they had control and enough votes to pass it.

I'm damn sick of this one way street called loyalty. If what I read here is what Dems think than you can work on the next election without me working for 20 hrs a week for six months and giving $20K in donations to your candidates.

edited: to make sense, since I was too mad to type correctly when I first posted it.

[merh]

31. Believing that god, gays and guns had an impact in the

election does not mean that we are scapegoating gays.

We are blaming the homophobes, not the gays. Get over it!

Fear, fear of losing their guns, fear of terrorist fighting in their streets, fear of some gay guy or girl teaching their kids, fear of aids, fear of going to hell, fear of so many things and the PURE IGNORANCE of the masses that refuse to search for the facts and the truth, that is what folks mean by god, gays and guns.

It is not blaming the gays - it is just saying that the majority of folks haven't a clue about things outside of their small worlds and they don't want to know!

[Nite Owl]

3. I'm finding that one hard to

believe. First they say that the exit polls aren't right when they say Kerry was winning but the exit polls that say it was 'moral issues' that won it for the Repukes are right. So which is it with the exit polls? Are they only reliable when they say what the right wants them to say? A ploy to get us to aim for the wrong strategy?

[SmokingJacket]

25. excellent point n/t

[democratreformed]

4. Because I worked the polls and watched them come in to vote.

Because I know that many of them did not vote before. I saw them with my own eyes.

[dirtyduck]

21. I saw it too

I live in State College, PA -- pretty progressive, but balanced with rural wackos. I thought many of the people in line to vote were like me, but the more I listened to them talk, the more I realized they were ultra religious... talking about Kerry being a baby killer, etc.

[hollywood926]

5. And they were told Kerry would ban the bible! n/t

[wellstone_democrat]

6. Stop, its an embarrassment to do so. That isn't the reason

its cheap to say that and easy to say that but it isn't the reason. Its a cluster of things that include delusion about September 11th motivations by terrorists and real responsibility for the attacks. Its lies about everything from terror to guns. Its filthy attacks and lies.

Don't promote that here.

[MsUnderstood]

8. I was pissed off when my paper published that

Here is my LTTE (second shameless post I know):

Wow, do you feel better now? Do you feel vindicated? On Nov 4th, you published an editorial giving victory to George Bush and in it blamee the Bush’s re-election on the gay agenda?

So let’s be clear. You as the media, chose social journalism over investigative journalism by focusing on the candidates’s personalities over their political ideas. You decided to publish lies as facts (i.e. Swiftboat Veterans) and defended yourself by saying you are just reporting what is being said. You and the rest of the “liberal media” allowed this president to scoot through four years by not asking the tough questions about 9/11, by not challenging him when he misinformed American about Iraq, by ignoring or downplaying stories about the economy.

You watched as our President divided the country with moral issues, ignored homeland security, and created policies that have sent our economy into a tailspin. But gays and lesbians striving for equal rights are the root of President Bush’s second term? Shame on you. Take that theory (and your paper), roll it up and throw it on someone else’s lawn. My subscription is cancelled.

[LTRS]

9. Bless you

Now if you could only talk some sense into the so-called democrats on DU.

[MsUnderstood]

10. it is easy to blame the opressed. . .

It is a lot harder to look inside oneself and ask "What could I have done?"

I know I could have done more. But being straight is not one of the things I should have to do. . .want to blame someone?

Ohio and Florida used electronic voting in 2000 and it gave Bush the presidency. What did the media do? Ignored it. What did we do? Wish real hard it would go away (most of us anyway).

4 years later, Ohio and Florida still have a Repub governor, still use Diebold, and Bush still gets those states. . .wow isn't that strange?

But go ahead (those who want an easy out) curse me because I'm gay and want to marry my partner of 12 years. I will have the last laugh--can't draft a homosexual. . .

[democratreformed]

13. But I am not blaming you.

I am blaming the idiots who feel that you shouldn't have rights. I am blaming the bigots and the racists. No, they didn't do all the voting, but I really believe that's what put them over the top. Like I said, I watched them come in to vote. I saw registered Dems put Bush signs in their yards. Because they are Pentecostal and Bushgod opened the door for their church to get money from the government - then he used hate and bigotry to motivate them to do what they hadn't don in years - VOTE.

[SemperEadem]

11. a thinking person would feel that gay marriage wasn't the issue

but an unthinking person, used to being spoon-fed what they're told they need to know by their religious leaders and never taking the time to educate themselves would.

Educating themselves would be akin to them eating from the tree of good and evil. Kerry never said he was for gay marriage, never said he was for taking guns from people, but it didn't matter to them--they prefer to swallow the load of fear that banning guns, gay marriage, stem cell and abortion was what Kerry was pushing on the people. They'd rather have their own drug of choice--lie-based fear--than to seek the truth for themselves. That would require them to take responsibility for their decisions and that's the last thing they want to do.

[BlueNomad]

12. Unfortunately...

it's because "the define marriage as between a man and a woman" was apparently on 11 state ballots tuesday!!!! Abortion was NOT. It was a genius pure hate move on Rove and Company. And it did not matter if Kerry was 'against" gay marriage --he was for civil unions and partnership rights..... The gay issue is also why apparently Ohio blacks voted 16 f--king perecentage for Mr. Bush.... (saw that in the Washington Post this morning)

Sad but true. They played the homophobic line and it worked--slam dunk. As for me, I'm agree with Chris Rock, "I think anyone who wants to get married should be encouraged to --why should only heterosexuals be miserable?" ..lol...

[Mz Pip]

15. I think Gay Marriage

became almost symbolic for all the cultural issues that divide the Red and Blue States. Pointing that out does not make anyone who is making that observation anti-gay or anti-gay rights.

Gavin Newsome made headlines across the country when he issued marriage licenses to gay couples. I thought it might give the rest of the country the opportunity to see that these people are no different from straight people. Boy was I wrong. It started a movement that managed to get 11 states to constitutionally ban gay marriage.

Perhaps if he had waited until the political climate was more sympathetic rather than picking the middle of the Bush Administration to make a stand things would have worked out different. I don't know. It's all Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.

MzPip
:dem:

[On the Road]

14. I am Definitely Buying the Influence of Gay Marriage on the Race

I am NOT discounting election fraud.

[ArtVandaley]

16. I think it was a factor, which is incredibly sad

One of the most depressing things about this loss. People overlooked national security, their economic security and the security of their freedom because they didn't like gay people or women who got abortions. How sad and pathetic is that?

[LTRS]

17. It's incredibly sad, and having been very involved

in dem politics I can tell you that what I see coming down the pike from all of this is even the meager support for we had for equality from politicians being siphoned off. They aren't going to know us again until they want another check. Hell, some of them now want our checks, but oh god no, not our public endorsement. "Just give me money, don't say you support me out loud."

But there are at least 4 million of us who vote consistently, and I will tell you, I kind of relate to blacks who say why should I vote dem? They don't do crap for me except ask for my vote every X yrs.

Sorry to say, but dem politicians can be real cowards. And I can just see the fall out from this coming.

[noiretextatique]

38. don't you hate it?

i know i do. one of the reasons why i joined the green party. i still vote for democrats nationally, but i'll be damned if i support a party that is too cowardly to stand up for disenfranchised voters. capitulating to bigotry, and then calling that "reality," is COWARDLY.

[qwlauren35]

18. I think it's true.

I think God and Guns vs. Gays was what pushed the election over the edge by 1%.

We are a 78% Christian nation. And only 10% atheist. Some folks tend to forget that. I think the DEMOCRATS tend to forget that. And I think the Republicans just reminded us.

On the other hand, I tend to hold onto the fact that no matter how many people turned out, less than 51% of American voters wanted this chimp faced smirker in office. If he wants to call that a mandate, then that's just another example of arrogance-based blinders.

[madfloridian]

19. Iraq was the reason.

The people who were borderline undecideds, against the war, but tending to Bush....had no one to vote for on that basis. So they went with Bush since he was already in charge.

Both candidates agreed on Iraq basically. Of course it was a big issue.

[Lorien]

26. "the devil you know.."

yes, I do think this was a factor. Had Kerry been willing to take a bold stand on Iraq and at least admit that it was a mistake, the world may have been a different place right now.

[Uzybone]

28. I disagree

Kerry won the Iraq votes (if there is such a thing) by a wide margin.

[Claire Beth]

20. It was the gay marriage issue cost us this election....

People should see now just how these right wing christians are. They are more powerful than ever and Karl Rove rallied them together to vote against the gays...The preachers were preaching this from the pulpit.
I wish that they had waited until AFTER an election year to pursue this controversial issue. Iraq was a factor but it was the gay marriage issue that did it.

[Lorien]

24. So sayeth the media

19 million fundies in America only cared about dudes holding hands when * and Kerry had the same position on the issue? I think not.

I still maintain that fear and fraud brought us here, the fundies are simply not that large a majority.

[Claire Beth]

27. YES!! that is exactly what it was....

there are more religious fundies than you think! They rallied their bases in rural areas EVERYWHERE!

[Lorien]

23. That issue was not on the ballot here in Florida

In 2000, there were eight B/C signs on my street and two Gore signs. In 2004, there were two B/C signs and 11 Kerry signs. Don't ell me the Kerry supporters weren't in the majority!

The repugs I met canvassing cited "the war on terra" (FEAR) and the Swiftboat ads as their main reasons for voting *.

[Uzybone]

29. Because its true

take the blinders off. Gay marriage mobilized the GOP base like nothing had before.

[LTRS]

30. No wonder we lost!

Geezus, even democrats buy into the bullshit spin. You want to abandon the 3-5 million gay democratic voters and the $20 million per cycle we contribute to dem campaigns?

Good luck winning without us. After you're done trashing us, get to work blaming the black community who vote en masse for dems. After all, without their support the rethugs wouldn't be able to demonize blacks in the south as part of their winning strategy there.

What a moran you are!

[MsUnderstood]

36. Really? What about terrorism?

Did you read the article where all these bush supporters believed Saddam had a hand in 9/11?

Who is responsible for allowing that misinformation? it was the MEDIA?
so what, you still want to blame gay marriage? Then why did Oregon BAN gay marriage but VOTE IN KERRY.

The reason Kerry lost was misinformation provided by the media.

[msmcghee]

32. You guys keep thinking that if they just knew the truth . .

. . then they'd see how wrong they are.

Truth, facts, logic, reason - those things have nothing to do with it. Starting with Gingrich the right has learned that with average Americans ideology sells, reason sucks.

Most people could care less about examining the issues intelligently to find rational solutions to our problems. That's not how they run their lives - so why should they vote for someone who'd try to run the country that way.

It's so much more fun believing in your heart that we're chosen by God to lead the world and those Godless Arabs are eeeeevil. See, that's a lot closer to a reality show - and that's what people really want. Emotional satisfaction. Reason just makes things complicated - and it doesn't even feel good.

It's a great concept. Gingrich first figured it out and used the "Contract With America" to take the house. Rove knew it all along and has used it expertly to ride his pony all the way to the top.

There's nothing that Bush could do, no disaster that will wake them up, no fuckup could possibly make them question Bush's leadershop.

Because righteous ideology is a real high. It's the rightwing "faith based" drug program in action.

[Sabriel]

33. I'm not, and even if it were true...

I'd still rather support my sister (literal, not figurative) than show here that she's not worthy of the same rights as I am.

[madfloridian]

34. If the party determines it is the issue, they will run from it.

They will not stand up for it. They are not even bothering to define the civil union/marriage issues, they are not even trying to frame it.

Trust me, we are going to take a hard right. And a very centrist New England governor who took the high road about the civil unions...is said to be unelectable because of it. Same one who said that told Kerry to vote for the marriage act.

Frame it, discuss it, that is the right thing to do. This bunch won't do it,though. They will turn their back on the issue, just as the party leaders turned their backs on Dean because of it.

PS I was raised in a church where it was taught to be an abomination to the Lord. When I first came to DU I was shocked to hear so much discussion of it. I am glad, though, as I have done about face on the this issue. I resent that the party will run from it, but they will.

[Eric J in MN]

35. Stephanie Herseth won statewide in South Dakota

(US Congressional race) by voting for a US Constitutional amendment against gay marriage.

[Crago]

37. I hate cats!

I have a little house down the hill. It had been vacant except for a family of birds who were nesting in an old hanging flower basket on the porch. It was fun to watch the parents flitting back and forth, feeding the chirping babies--until that damn cat came out of nowhere, jumped in and killed every one of them. I can still hear their screams.

I now know how the Jews must have felt when Hitler came to power. The crazies are now in complete control!

[baltodemvet]

39. Never crossed my mind..

By my principles, gay marriage is a good thing. I'll stand by that--so will my wife.

[tedzbear]

40. We should start a GLBT party.

And then promise to vote as a block for the party that has proven its support the best. That way they will do all the work while we watch and take notes.

[madfloridian]

41. We are doing it again. We are letting them define the issues.

They always get to pick the issues, and then we become just like they are on that issue. Maybe a wee bit of difference.

We don't stand up bravely and fight for what is right. We just keep letting them do this. Folks, of course they won on gay marriage...they kept using the word marriage over and over.

Most people are fine with civil unions, and we could have handled it by framing it ourselves. Instead we are now advocating that our candidates must vote for a law that is not even needed...and we do not even take the time to tell the people that.

We did the same thing on Iraq. Now, there's a me too issue for you.

They are bullying us.

[madfloridian]

42. Sorry, it double posted. Has done that a lot today.

.