Forgive me for being behind on the Jon Stewart/Crossfire story...

[UdoKier]

I had noticed some threads were mentioning an exchange between little Tucker and Stewart, but had no idea what the demeanor of the exchange was.

Now, thanks to SLUDGE, who's decided to smear Stewart for being one tick to the left of the USA's center (read: far right in any other civilized country) I have a better idea.

Now, while I think Sludge's attack is disgusting (as usual), it makes me wonder why Stewart chose CROSSFIRE of all debate shows to let down his comedy face and launch into a critique. After all, it is one of the only evenly-matched debate shows there is (if not the only one), and even Lil' Tucker has shown SOME independence by admitting that the war on Iraq was a mistake.

SO why didn't Stewart choose to go off one one of the more blatantly whorish shows like Hannity and Colmes or Hardball?

I don't really get it.

[flowomo]

1. I think he found out they were preparing to embarass him....

and he just launched first.

[walldude]

3. I think he went in there prepared

and kicked their ass. John was all over them like a bad suit. There are some links to the video here:
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/008312.html
do yourself a favor and see it, it's awesome.
*edit* this was ment as a reply to the original post :)

[aquart]

2. Nice how you managed to slime Stewart yourself.

I'm sure you would have done it better. Pity they never invite you.

[UdoKier]

5. Slime? I just questioned his target.

I couldn't agree more with everything Stewart said, but I wish he'd saved his ire for the guys who really deserve it. To be fair, I felt like when he said "You" to the Crossfire guys, he was implying ALL such shows. I have no idea if I would have done better - there are days when I'm "on" and when I'm off. But now that yoou mention it, it would be nice if these shows actually DID invide normal everyday people on to discuss from the standpoint of a normal person, rather than that of a politician or a media personality.

I think that's a big part of what Stewart was complaining about, is that everything these people say, on all sides, is always a talking point, and they NEVER sit down and talk like real people.

Steward might have also mentioned that he is just as cordial to the right-wing guests he has on. (I don't know how he restrains himself.)

[SoCalDem]

21. Here's why.. He was their ONLY scheduled guest

They thought they were going to interview him about his book (great cover for him)..It's a LIVE show, and he's way more intelligent than both of them put together..

There was no "other" guest to cut to when he threw them the curve ball..

He saw the opportunity, and he took it.. Bravo Jon..

[krkaufman]

4. Because Crossfire has the potential of being a decent show...

... if they would just try; that is, actually try to format the show as a debate, rather than a typical partisan hack shoutfest.

However, I'd say Stewart became a bit more forceful in his critique the more obnoxious Carlson grew.

edit: Note that this Crossfire show wasn't the "first" time Stewart has commented on his pet peeve: the failure of the media. This has been his, and the rest of the staff's theme, throughout their appearances during their book tour. (e.g. Stewart on Charlie Rose, Bee/Colbert/writers on Norville; plus Stewart in both his Nightline appearances during the conventions.) Only the scale and focus of the attack was more pronounced on Crossfire -- to the detriment of Tucker Carlson's drawers.

[RoyGBiv]

6. You allude to the reason yourself ...

Crossfire has the appearance of being "evenly-matched," but it isn't. It's just a hack show wrapped in a shroud of false legitimacy.

Everyone with a brain knows Hannity and Colmes is biased. Some intelligent people actually think Crossfire has some merit. It doesn't.

Also note, if you've seen the interview, that Stewart wasn't talking about bias. He repeatedly addressed this while Tucker kept trying to pull him away from it. He was talking about the so-called independent media's duty to the American public to engage politicians of all persuasions and demand they answer questions and debate issues openly and honestly and without the political jargon and canned answers. All of them.

[UdoKier]

8. Right, I understood where he was coming from.

Although the kind of dialogue he's complaining about DOES tend to favor the GOP simply because it's so simplistic and deceptive. The fact that the topic of the day is ALWAYS something totally irrelevant to anybody's life (like O'Lielly's perversions).

But I wonder if most of Crossfire's audience had any idea what Stewart was getting at?

[jdj]

10. it's probably a canned audience like Dennis Miller's is.

It sounds that way anyway.

And Tucker Carlson is an obnoxious prick, he's the other side of the coin of people like the South Park punks, when he says "I'm an ideologue" it makes me want to puke. There are few people I would like to see drafted more than Carlson.

[RoyGBiv]

13. The Audience

I don't know really. (The studio audience seemed to like him though.) I can say without fear of error that Hannity's audience wouldn't get it at ALL, which might be suggestive of another reason Stewart picks on Crossfire.

This is a trite analogy, but I think it works. I've always hated math. I don't even know why. I just do. But, I apparently have an aptitude for it. (I made higher scores on the math sections of the ACT and SAT than on any other. I still don't know how, but I digress.) My senior year of HS, I took an advanced Calculus class because it was the only thing left really, and I wanted my AP credits. But, I slacked off, rarely did my homework, didn't study much, etc. I made C's and B's, which got me by, and that's all I cared about. My teacher picked on me incessantly, wouldn't leave me alone. Meanwhile, others in the class were making D's and F's. She didn't pick on them nearly as much, some not at all.

I got fed up with it at one point and asked why she was picking on me. And, naturally, she said she picked on me because she knew I could do better.

I think Stewart picks on Crossfire because it, the format anyway, *could* be better.

[bpilgrim]

24. why do you think his numbers are going UP?

"But I wonder if most of Crossfire's audience had any idea what Stewart was getting at?"

folks are 'getting it' ;->

peace

[OutsourceBush]

7. 'Whore Hannity' does not debate anyone who can beat him

Hannity typically finds one really dip shit question like..."How many times did Kerry vote to lower the price of Cabbage?'

Then he goes on the street or to the guest and finds a dumb ass that is not real savvy and starts asking him/her questions about Kerry. Then he starts his shit. 'Do you know how many time your man voted on the price of Cabbage?' 'Answer the question!!!' (louder, shouting, louder, shouting) You won't answer the question!! How many times? Answer the question!!! There you have it folks, they support Kerry and they refuse to answer how many times he voted on Cabbage. These liberals are all alike.

No need for anyone with an IQ to try to debate a dumb f*ck that acts like that.

[NuttyFluffers]

9. if you watched the show clip instead of read drudge...

...you would have figured out the demeanor of the exchange and you wouldn't have to even ask this question. stewart adequately answered this question already within the interview.

:hug: great television isn't it?

[UdoKier]

16. I read the entire transcript at CNN.

It's only Sludge that made me realize that the exchange was something more than the usual talkshow patter.

It surprised me because Stewart usually stays pretty clear of controversy. I can't say I wasn't pleased to see it.

I will watch the video.

[NuttyFluffers]

20. please do, it's great television!

:hug: enjoy!

[Carla in Ca]

11. Umm...Udokier

Why didn't you use 'search' to read about this? It is a great tool.
Why is H****** in such big letters?
Why do you quote Sl****?
Why are you talking about this when the election is just a few weeks away?

[UdoKier]

14. Have you ever watched Hannity and Doormat?

I thought that it was pretty self-explanatory.

Why am I talking about WHAT when the election is a few weeks away? The topic is the media. It's at most tangentially related to Kerry.

I was disappointed to see Stewart attacked by Sludge. I like Stewart. I don't like Sludge. I think it's sad that someone who is pretty much nice to EVERYBODY is being made out to be some kind of A-HOLE.

As far as using Sludge as a source - I'm not using him as a source to back up my rhetoric, I'm citing an attack HE launched.

This thread is SO not flamebait, so I don't get what your gripe is. You don't like the topic, fine. Go find another one you do like and spare me your misplaced hostility.

[K-W]

12. Jon Stewert will not be YOUR monkey either.

If he had just attacked Hannity, besides not getting to talk, Stewert would be singling out a conservative. He would be rightly written off as a partisan hack, just as he so accurately described Begala and Carlson. His point is not that the conservatives are bad or that the liberals are bad, it is that the people in the media are playing the game they are reporting on. They are working for politicians and corporations, they are not working for the people and this is hurting america. America needs real debate and real questions and a media that tries to serve the people, the viewers and readers, rather than the rich guy who bought the station and now decides who gets raises and who gets fired, and the politicians he loves.

Had Stewert tried to engineer his appearance in some way to be political and attack a conservative, he would be just another hack in the media trying to manipulate the people for political gains.

[UdoKier]

15. But he shouldn't attack HANNITY.

He should attack Hannity and Colmes for being the farce that it is. Colmes is just as culpable for "doing theater" (as Stewart puts it) playing a cringing milquetoast liberal (when his posiitions are always moderate) as Hannity is.

Tweety would be much trickier to go up against, since there is a veneer of fairness to the show, and Tweety sometimes takes the Dems' side, apparently just to surprise people.

[K-W]

17. Why should Stewert make YOUR point instead of HIS point?

First off, I dont know what fantasy world you are living in where Sean Hannity would let Jon Stewert come on his show and attack it or him. So I dont even know why we are having this discussion, but since we are, Stewert isnt trying to make the point you seem to want him to make. His point is not that Fox news is a farce or that Hannity is a propagandist, that is not the battle Jon Stewert wants to fight. His point is that crossfire, a legitamately bipartisan show, on CNN, a news network that at the very least once had some legitimacy, is an example with what is wrong with the media, not Fox News, not the conservative media, the media. The best way to do this is on crossfire, not by trying to sneak attack a conservative.

He wouldnt be making that point if he went on a fox news show. He would be a liberal on the conservative network, telling them they are ruining america. It would be a partisan attack regardless of his intention, and it wouldnt make his point at all. It would just serve as a distraction to his point.

[UdoKier]

19. Hmm... Maybe so, although I don't see Stewart as a partisan.

I guess I tend to be a little defensive of Crossfire since its position is so tenuous. I honestly thought it would be cancelled by now, after they cut it back to 1/2 hour in the afternoon (which has only exacerbated the deficiencies Stewart was criticizing)

I don't know what shows he can or cannot get on. I watch the Daily show all the time, but I honestly don't watch the debate shows enough to address that, so you may very well be right.

[Lorien]

18. Hopefully, he'll have similar discussions with

other members of the media. I don't think he ever wanted the burden of holding America's "journalists" to a more professional standard, but he has the awards now, so he has a leg to stand on (scary about that, isn't it? The most trusted anchorman is a comedian)! If it were up to Stewart, he's probably just stick to comedy. But he's a patriot, so he's gotta speak out where ever he can-we all do-and I'm sure we haven't heard the last from him.

[tinanator]

22. so you think Stewart should help THEIR ratings?

I dont call that thinkin
he was absolutely correct, Crossfire is garbage. Simply because there are more openly fascist entertainment programs out there doesnt excuse CNN for what it is- even more deceptively fascist.

[Kinkistyle]

23. Because Hannity is blatantly right-wing

While Crossfire is just plain whorish. There is no point in going on Hannity because his audience just doesn't care about Stewart. It would be like pissing into the wind. At least on Crossfire you have a more balanced audience.