It is my belief that FDR's New Deal made it possible for our

[CoffeeAnnan]

country to be different from the Banana Republics that are prevalent throughout Latin America with wide disparities in incomes between the moneyed and poor classes. The accessibility of higher education, health care and a social safety net clearly laid the infrastructure that allowed our people to live in dignity from cradle to grave and have social mobility based on the educational achievements of the younger generation.That infrastructure has been shattered under successive Republican Administrations of Reagan, Bush I and now Bush II.One might say that the seed corn planted by FDR is now being eaten away by the Republicans and our country is headed on a downward spiral for which one cannot find a parallel in either our own history or that of any other nation.

The utter fallacy of Republican prescriptions for our economy has been so obvious in the past thirty years and still the fools keep reciting the tax cuts as a mantra to revive the economy that does not seem to put enough money in the hands of those people whose spending on necessities would generate the demand that will provide the boost we badly need.But then, the Republicans always believe that money in the hands of the poor is bad;money in the hands of the rich is good: and more money in the hands of the rich is even better.What a sorry bunch of AH's these Republicans are!

[rockymountaindem]

1. Repost this or kick it in the morning.

[Booster]

2. Yep. That's at the top of their agenda; to undo every good

thing FDR did, and that would surely be a shame for the entire country. I don't understand the mindset of some Republicans, but it certainly is shallow thinking.

[CoffeeAnnan]

3. At one time I called their policy the deliberate impoverishment of

the American people.By making our people desperate for jobs, food, healthcare and education, they hope to control us and dictate what we can and cannot believe in.They plan to achieve the end of our democracy in this way.

[Booster]

4. Damn, how old are you? Both posts are excellent and well

written.

[Octafish]

20. The New Feudalism.

Your analysis of the situation fits the facts. The elite these puke turds serve work to rob the world's treasure, enslave the planet and kill ALL who oppose them -- as well as those deemed to use scarce resources.

They aren't NAZIs. That was just a step in their evolution.

[CoffeeAnnan]

22. It takes a special sense of entitlement to believe that all the world's

resources belong to a small elite and the people of the world are there to secure these resources for them and maintain their control over those resources.This is why I allude to the fact that the Iraqi people and our soldiers are no different when viewed from the perspective of these grandmasters.As Muhammad Ali said once " I don't have no quarrel with them VietCong".The same people Bush promised were going to be liberated are now being painted as our enemies and this allows them to be killed by the thousands.

[Octafish]

27. We're on the same frequency, CoffeeAnnan! OVERLORDs.

Have you read the following? The late author was found dead inside Scaife's world HQ, a "suicide." Scaife, a founding member of the BFEE, helped build the VRWC. These bed-wetters don't believe in the United States Constitution -- they think they're entitled to lord it over the people and the planet. A voice inside their little heads told them so...

The Origins of the Overclass

By Steve Kangas

The wealthy have always used many methods to accumulate wealth, but it was not until the mid-1970s that these methods coalesced into a superbly organized, cohesive and efficient machine. After 1975, it became greater than the sum of its parts, a smooth flowing organization of advocacy groups, lobbyists, think tanks, conservative foundations, and PR firms that hurtled the richest 1 percent into the stratosphere.

The origins of this machine, interestingly enough, can be traced back to the CIA. This is not to say the machine is a formal CIA operation, complete with code name and signed documents. (Although such evidence may yet surface — and previously unthinkable domestic operations such as MK-ULTRA, CHAOS and MOCKINGBIRD show this to be a distinct possibility.) But what we do know already indicts the CIA strongly enough. Its principle creators were Irving Kristol, Paul Weyrich, William Simon, Richard Mellon Scaife, Frank Shakespeare, William F. Buckley, Jr., the Rockefeller family, and more. Almost all the machine's creators had CIA backgrounds.

During the 1970s, these men would take the propaganda and operational techniques they had learned in the Cold War and apply them to the Class War. Therefore it is no surprise that the American version of the machine bears an uncanny resemblance to the foreign versions designed to fight communism. The CIA's expert and comprehensive organization of the business class would succeed beyond their wildest dreams. In 1975, the richest 1 percent owned 22 percent of America’s wealth. By 1992, they would nearly double that, to 42 percent — the highest level of inequality in the 20th century.

How did this alliance start? The CIA has always recruited the nation’s elite: millionaire businessmen, Wall Street brokers, members of the national news media, and Ivy League scholars. During World War II, General "Wild Bill" Donovan became chief of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA. Donovan recruited so exclusively from the nation’s rich and powerful that members eventually came to joke that "OSS" stood for "Oh, so social!"

Another early elite was Allen Dulles, who served as Director of the CIA from 1953 to 1961. Dulles was a senior partner at the Wall Street firm of Sullivan and Cromwell, which represented the Rockefeller empire and other mammoth trusts, corporations and cartels. He was also a board member of the J. Henry Schroeder Bank, with offices in Wall Street, London, Zurich and Hamburg. His financial interests across the world would become a conflict of interest when he became head of the CIA. Like Donavan, he would recruit exclusively from society’s elite.

CONTINUED MUST READ AND DISSEMINATE, PLEASE...

http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/L-overclass.html

[CoffeeAnnan]

28. Thank you.I wasn't aware of this.

[CoffeeAnnan]

5. There was a time just a few decades ago, when there was a

consensus in this country that all people must have access to jobs that provided living wages, healthcare, educational opportunities and decent and affordable housing.The Republicans, with Bush at the top, unable to provide full employment with their tax cuts for the rich,are claiming that people who are poor are poor because they are lazy.I have known black women, poor by any definition, working three jobs and still unable to afford health care for themselves or their children and living one bad spell of health away from financial catastrophe.This is what FDR tried to prevent and succeeded so well.
Our socalled leaders enamored by schemes that no one understands are oblivious to the suffering they have caused in their mad rush for world domination.The wars they have ignited are being fought by our poor who cannot find a way out.In this their fate is the same as those of the suffering Iraqi civilians.They are pawns in the hands of people who care very little for the lives of either the American soldiers or the Iraqi civilians.

We have descended so far from our ideals that only an old octagenarian like Robert Byrd remembers what we used to be.

[Booster]

6. Now I'm suspicious.

[CoffeeAnnan]

7. To answer your question, I am a fifty three year old person who has been a

College Professor (now retired early) and a businessman.I am widely traveled and the proud father of five children.I try to involve myself as much as I can in our community and encourage my chidren to volunteer their time at local hospitals and churches. Beyond that I lead a boring life.

[BrotherBuzz]

8. You should factor in the GI Bill of Rights, too

I think FDR's GI Bill of Rights was the great equalizer that rejuvenated the middle class, the backbone of America. Don't forget to remind all the old fat cat Republicans who achieved success because of GI school tuition, home loans, farm loans, and small business loans. Oh, how fast they forget.

[CoffeeAnnan]

9. Absolutely.Thanks for reminding me. The farsighted treatment of our

soldiers returning from fighting the Nazis in Europe laid the foundations for our booming economy.Contrast that with the shameful way we have treated our Vietnam veterans and the Gulf I veterans.I am sure the latest version of that mistreatement where they are not even recognized by the politicians who sent them away on a fraudulent war is the ultimate betrayal of the FDR legacy.

[BrotherBuzz]

11. LOL, don't forget the Pacific theater either....

And for what it's worth, my Vietnam era GI bill was just as good as strong as Pops was from WWII. Heck, I lived on the cheap and was actually able to save money while going to college. Sadley, I understand the benefits of late are not so nearly attractive.

[Kanary]

10. You're laying it out exactly right. Now, unfortunately, the Dems are

complicit with the whole RW agenda in tearing up the safety net.

Clinton's welfare deform did as much to hurt people as some of the RW efforts! Unfortunately, because there was no tracking of those who were cut off, we don't know what happened to all of them, how many died as a result, etc. I've seen a documentary about some of them, and there were 3 deaths in that group.

I'd appreciate your help with keeping this issue at the forefront here on DU. It is just not of interest here. Any thread begun which touches on this topic drops like a stone.

We have much work to do just to get Dems once again involved and interested in poverty issues.

Or, maybe it's like the Talking Wheelchair Blues lyrics I posted a few days ago... that most Dems are "temporarily economically comfortable", and they will have to slide down that hill before they get interested.

:(

Kanary

[AP]

12. Clinton's welfare reform strategy was to satisfy the right by making it...

...seem less generous with the assistance while creating an economy that made it so that fewer people would have to rely on any kind of welfare at all because the economy was going to cruise along pretty well. Give a man bread and you feed him for him a day. Give him a job and you can feed him for a lifetime, right?

And, you know what, it's not the people on welfare who are getting killed because of Bush. Bush manages to make sure the people can just about keep their heads above water. His real trick is in creating so many people who are in the water whil just a few are still up on the yacht. The people in the yacht need a lot of people struggling and not a lot of people drowned. Compassionate conservativism is all about making the middle class poorer but not so weak that they can't show up to work to make a lot of money for someone else.

[CoffeeAnnan]

13. Even this model is coming apart because multinational corps

can find highly educated workers in India and China who will perform the same work we do for a fraction of our wages.What is now a trickle of jobs going to India or china is going to be a flood in the next few years.At that point, the Republicans will not need Americans either as workers or as consumers.To them we are too expensive and they will milk our purchasing power for what it is worth until Indians and the Chinese can develop market economies to rival our own.

[shanti]

37. oh, they will still need us alright

but only as "service workers", serving THEM, the mcjobs. everything else will be outsourced.

[Kanary]

16. I guess you didn't read any of what I said..... just defending Clinton

This is what makes me angry. I posted that PEOPLE DIED, and that doesn't seem to make any difference at all. Lives are not important, because it doesn't affect the affluent people at DU.

That's why there is such a gulf in the Dem party, and why some of us have given up even trying to communicate anymore.

I don't give a SHIT why Clinton did it, and I think it's a lot more sinister than you want to believe. Sacrificing people's lives for "political expendiency" is no better than the RW.

And, if he was so FORCED into it, then why the hell is he NOW saying it's what he should have done first??

But, I really don't want an answer.

When people can't even care that human beings died, then I have nothing more to converse about.

byenow....

Kanary, who knows that when the cuts kill her, DUers will just step over her body and walk on without a thought....

[AP]

17. The idea that Clinton was sacrificing people's lives is absurd.

Politics suck, but what Clinton did for American was as good as any Democrat was going to do given the money and organization behind the opposition.

If you can't see that, sorry.

With your attitude, if you were president you'd stalemate and drive more people into poverty and drive the economy into ruins. You'd do jack shit for people and then say that it was more important to stand on principles. Can people eat principles? Can they wear principles?

[Kanary]

26. Yes, people died. Obviously, that matters not to "Dems"

It used to. But, now, all that matters is the muddleclass.

Dumping your rationalizations on me, and calling me names doesn't bring people back to life.

Clearly, from your attitude, many more will die from lack of CONCERN.

Thanks for *you* doing jack shit.

Kanary

[AP]

29. Right-o.

You can't do nothing as president. Doing nothing was what Bush was doing and that was definitely killing people.

I wonder you think Clinton could have done that he didn't do.

[Kanary]

32. IT's been said many times.

But, there is an impasse here between the Clinton defenders of everything Big Dog, and those who were hurt by some of his "accomplishments".

I suspect it's that same gulf as between the DLC and progressives.

When that finally erupts, it's going to be interesting.

Kanary

[AP]

33. Question still stands: what would president Kanary have done differently

and how would you have done it?

[Kanary]

35. Y'know, there are many here who are being hurt by

the DLC willingness to shred what is left of the New Deal safety net.

It may be all a big joke to you, but there are HUMAN LIVES hanging in the balance.

I get that he is your hero. I get that no amount of human suffering will change your attitude.

Your taunt to me is indicative of the wide gap that has torn the Party apart, and will continue.

So be it.

Just as it is with the RW, I have come to understand that it is of no use to try to reason or appeal to those who are dedicated to the ideals of the DLC. It will eventually come to blows, and there's simply no use starting the blows here.

It hurts very much that there is so little concern about the suffering of others, including some right here at DU.

But, that's the nature of this society at this point in time.

I think that Elginoid is right......... many here are going to have to learn it the hard way....... by their own suffering.

So, go ahead and have the last, haughty word. I'm sure you have a few spears left to throw.

Kanary

[AP]

36. I asked a question. I invited you to have the last word. You didn't answer

[sandnsea]

21. It was not that simple

I totally disagree with the 5 year cap. I totally disagree with the lack of funding for transportation and child care.

However, I will repeat again and again, women wanted some of the changes in welfare reform. They wanted health care separated from AFDC benefits. They wanted to be able to work and be rewarded for it, not penalized. They wanted help with job training. Some of those things are available now and they weren't 25 years ago. 25 years ago, you chose between total welfare dependence and trying to move ahead with work. It still isn't easy, but at least there's a bit of an option and a little help for people still working. There was no SCHIP 25 years ago, there was no child care assistance, there certainly were no programs to buy you a car or computer so you could get a job or learn a new skill. Welfare reform wasn't all bad, although we do need to fight for more help. And we certainly need to fight for living wages.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. If not for the combination of the New Deal safety net and our

strong unions we could have wound up like the Europeans of WWII. The KKK was huge, numbering itself in the millions in the teens and 20s. The socialists and communists were burgeoning in the 30s. That's what made McCarthy so dangerous -- in the decade before the war a lot of people actually were communists. Unemployment and homelessness were at unmatched levels in the nation's history and there were real fears of either a communist or fascist coup.

FDR stopped that.

Now, this crowd is trying to undo what he did. Unemployment and homelessness are again rampant, the populace is more divided than at any time since the civil war, and what protected us in the 30s is under attack -- unions now represent only a fraction of America's workers, and the safety net is being shredded daily.

I don't believe I'm exaggerating when I say the very foundations of modern America are threatened, and we are, as you say, at risk of becoming an oligarchic, theocratic banana republic.

[CoffeeAnnan]

15. For a party that wraps itself in the mantle of religious beliefs, the

Republican Party seems to be totally unwilling to be judged by its deeds as John Kerry pointed out while quoting the Bible.By dismantling the pillars of our economy, the GOP is inviting chaos, which may or may not benefit them in maintaining their power.Whatever the end result, it will not be the America of my younger days. It will more closely resemble the Argentina of the 60's and 70's.

[Sven77]

18. he was apart of the big gold swindle

The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled

An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',

in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,

I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

[CoffeeAnnan]

19. kick

[Astrochimp]

25. I have the book ........

'Forward with Roosevelt', from the era (1933 IIRC?). It lays out his plans, what the problems were, and how the programs would help. Sure it is some propaganda, but reading the original intentions vs the BS we hear about it now is great.


I would have liked to seen the USA follow FDR's plans in Afghanistan, (and staying out of IRAQ) making it once again the "garden spot" of the middle east. IMHO that would have been the way to win over the region. Jobs building the country vs jobs growing opium. Imagian locals building roads, water and power systems, parks schools, etc. A WPA for the world.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. The other thing that FDR did

was improve the infrastructure of the United States, with such things as the rural electrification project. Before that time, most farmers in this country got by with kerosene lamps and wood stoves.

The WPA not only put unemployed people to work, it built infrastructure and recreational facilities throughout the country. It even put unemployed writers and journalists to work writing guidebooks for each state. Although now outdated, they were of extremely high quality.

Since the late 1970s, I've been reading about how the infrastructure of our cities--water pipes, sewer systems, roads, bridges, transit systems-- is overdue for repairs, and this lack of attention can be dangerous. (Remember when downtown Chicago was flooded a few years ago? Or Twin Cities people can remember when the Lake Street bridge, one of the main crossings between Minneapolis and St. Paul was so deteriorated that buses slowed to 10 MPH when crossing it.)

Instead of occupying other countries and building weapon systems to fight enemies who don't exist, we should embark on a crash program to modernize our cities to world-class standards, repairing or replacing existing infrastructure, adding transit systems to deal with the coming oil shortage, and building affordable housing.

[Blue Wally]

34. Ummmmmmm

Instead of occupying other countries and building weapon systems to fight enemies who don't exist, we should embark on a crash program to modernize our cities to world-class standards, repairing or replacing existing infrastructure, adding transit systems to deal with the coming oil shortage, and building affordable housing.

One of the big parts of the FDR recovery was driven by the buiding of military infrastructure at camps, posts,. and stations and naval ships. Most of the large, imposing homes on army and navy bases were built during the thirties by the WPA. FDR (former Asst Secy of Navy) was closely involved with the expansion of the US fleet in the thirties after the dearth of new ship building in the twenties.

[CoffeeAnnan]

24. This is also one of the reasons the Republicans fear the rise of

a true democrat like Hugo Chavez in a resource rich country like Venezuela.His pledge to put those resources at the service of the people "deliberately impoverished" by our oil barons in cahoots with the Latin American oligarchs has given them the chills.They now fear that the spread of true democracy in Latin America may be infectious and as Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru become truly democratic, the old American imposed Democracy will lose its ability
to have even propaganda value.

Isn't it ironic that just as the Republicans under Bush are systematically destroying the fabric of our social contract,Hugo Chavez and his Latin colleagues are building a FDR style economic democracy? Another turn in the wheel of history, I suppose.

[Kanary]

30. You might want to remember Kerry's stance on Chavez. :(

[AP]

31. Not unlike Kennedy's on Castro...

...and Castro now calls Kennedy his favorite American president.

Kerry is talking a big talk about Chávez, but I'm going to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume that he's going to have the same attitude towards Chávez that Clinton had.