John Dean Discusses "Natural Born" Clause of the Constitution...

[coreystone]

and his arguments for amending "Article II, Section 1, Clause 5"

I have always respected the writings of John W. Dean. I feel that his view on the issue of a Constitutional Amendment may not be appropriate at this particular juncture in history. I would certainly hate to consider the possibility that the merits of Mr. Dean’s arguments would be politically motivated; and, I do not consider them to be so. However, I do believe that my respect for many of the previous commentaries of John Dean have been extremely enlightening to me. I am posting this “thread”, not as an endorsement, but, as notion which I would care to spend more time pondering upon. I definitely, at this time, in view of the current political climate, do not think that it would be the appropriate measure to seriously consider such an amendment. A sober focus upon Senator Hatch's Senate Joint Resolution 15 would not be suggested; as it could be considered to resonate in extremely obvious political underpinnings. In all honesty, I was rather shocked upon my initial read of this writing.

United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5

“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”


The Pernicious "Natural Born" Clause of the Constitution:
Why Immigrants Like Governors Schwarzenegger and Granholm Ought to be Able to Become Presidents

By John W. Dean, Find Law
Friday, Oct. 08, 2004

With an eye on the 2008 presidential election, two enterprising Californians have launched an effort to propel Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger into the White House. To do so, however, they must remove the clause in the United States Constitution that currently precludes him from running for higher office. Thus, Operation Arnold seeks to encourage a public groundswell to amend the Constitution to allow foreign born persons to be eligible for the office of President.

Governor Schwarzenegger, who came to the United States when he was 21 years of age, is not the only sitting governor constitutionally ineligible for the presidency.

Michigan's Democratic Governor Jennifer Granholm was born in British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada, and thus is also ineligible.

Governor Granholm has eloquently explained the unfairness of the situation she, Arnold, and countless other could-be/would-be presidents face: "You can't choose where you are born, but you can choose where you live and where you swear your allegiance."

Link: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=/dean/20041008.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. A governor of a state is NOT the commander-in-chief, and cannot

initiate war (Federal Constitution and the War Powers Act notwithstanding).

Go ahead and amend the Constitution and elect a foreignborn President, who, for all you know has not "assimilated" into American culture and has first allegiance to his/her family's country of origin. And imagine this President has a conflict with that very same country which may demand armed response from the U.S. military. How hard will that war be prosecuted, if at all? Conflict of interest? Yes, and in other areas including competing against another country's economic interest, such as forgiving a hefty debt owed to the U.S.

No, leave the Constitution as is. Let Schwartenegger get his rocks off as California's governor and write his memoirs.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. Ah, the old "divided loyalty" argument!

Used against Kennedy in 1960. Used against Jews. Used against Japanese-Americans in WWII. Used against German-Americans in WWI.

It's bullshit. As is every other argument I've ever heard against amending the Constitution to get rid of that vile clause.

[Warpy]

3. Although I generally disagree with this clause

since it prevents a lot of people who came here as young children and who love this country from running, I'd suggest we keep it for the time being, if only to save us from another damn California actor who doesn't know his ass from his elbow and would have to rely on people like Grover Norquist and Karl Rove to tell him what to do in office.

Actors and bidnessmen make poor chief executives. Sorry, but there it is. Their focus is not one of service. Their professions rely on lying. Their professions have little of the accountability that public office demands. They violate the law because they have no clue what the law demands of them.

Having a political outsider run for the highest office in the country may appeal to the populist streak in most of us, but it's generally turned out to be a disaster when he gets in.

[coreystone]

5. I Do Not Support the Amendment....I only wish to engage in a rational..

dicussion of whatever merits which John Dean has articulted. It is not relevant to the current possibility that Hatch is attempting to open the door for Schwarzenegger in 2008. It is a question which should require much deliberation before Congress would supericially propose such a serious change to the US Constitution.

[baldguy]

4. It's the Arnold Schwarzenegger Amendment

Its been designed & introduced by Republicans solely for his benefit. As soon as a any Democrat tries to avail himself of the provisions of the amendment, the GOP will try and have it repealed.

[coreystone]

6. Without regard to Schwarzenegger....which is only current political.....

manipulation, what do you "overall" feel about the Dean arguments in the future. Hopefully, assuming that some of the "on the spot of the moment" logic, would simmer down.

[baldguy]

8. I don't care where a person is born.

If they swear alliegence to America, they're Americans.

The trouble is, Republicans swear alliegence to the party first. As long as Arnold calls himself one, he's not an American.

[Flubadubya]

7. Especially if he/she were born French!

Bwahaha....

[vetwife]

9. I think they would have had Kissinger in there

I do believe whole heartily that one should be born here to be a commander in chief although I think what we have now with Bush in office, he isn't even from this planet so, there goes the argument..I think Coreystone brings up good points considering we have a man from the plant Stupid presiding now but this would not even be on the table if we didn't have the Gropenator in office. I think I would love to have Chirac as president rather than Bush. Shoot I had rather have my cat but it is interesting to look at the options but the independent thinkers and that does not include this administration at all is the only one who is open to such a thing unless it is to further push their idealog agenda and trust me they would have had Kissinger in the oval office if possible and had we not had a dem congress back then. It would have already been an issue. We need to take back the congress and gets some balance. I still hold true to the fact one should be born here especially in this Millenium of broken borders and such !

[Vickers]

10. Let's just let 'em re-write the whole goddam Constitution

I mean, the current crop of politicians would do a much better job than Madison and Franklin and Hamilton, etc. etc.

Right?

:eyes:

[DavidDvorkin]

12. So which amendments do you want to throw out, Vickers?

Anything added after the time of the Founding Fathers?

[Vickers]

13. *pssssst* that was sarcasm, son

:P

[DavidDvorkin]

17. Oops.

Sorry. I've seen that sentiment expressed on DU before, so I took it seriously.

[Vickers]

18. That's OK!

You shoulda seen me the other night, I thought somebody was replying to me and I let loose with both barrels, went back and re-read their post, and they were talking to somebody else.

D'oh!

:toast:

[TahitiNut]

11. I'd support amending it under TWO conditions.

I'd require that it be eliminated for all persons born after 2001, but stay in effect for all persons born in the 20th century. Any such amendment should require some minimum number of years of US citizenship for any Federal office. I'd suggest 35 years - the same as the minimum age.

Such codicils would ensure that such an amendment would not be inspired by contemporary partisan fervor.

[ibegurpard]

19. My sentiments exactly.

This is an issue for a future date when,hopefully, the political arena in this country is less rancorous.
I agree with the idea behind this, with some reservations, but if it's such a great idea then it can wait until Arnold Schwarzeneger is long gone.

[realFedUp]

14. Arnie couldn't get elected Prez

Arnie's past exploits and photos would
never pass the smell test in those
Baptist states....remember only a small
percentage of California voters actually
voted for Arnie and a lot of the votes
just to get rid of Gray Davis.

[coreystone]

15. Sorry, I had a day off.....thought I could get a bit serious..for while..

OH! WELL! :-)

I guess we should rule these John W. Dean Commentaries out as well!

A Crucial But Largely Ignored 2004 Campaign Issue:
The Next President Is Likely to Appoint At Least Three Supreme Court Justices

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040924.html


Or,

Osama's Dream Team: Kerry-Edwards or Bush-Cheney?

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040910.html


Or,

The New Book Attacking Kerry's War Record:
How It Defames the Candidate, and Why He Should Sue

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040831.html


Or,

What Happens In The Event Of A Terror Attack On The 2004 Presidential Elections?

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040719.html

Or,


This is a pretty good also,

Missing Weapons Of Mass Destruction:
Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense?


http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

------------------------------

There are so many other “legal/intellectual” perspectives which Dean discusses without the “aargggg”, SmirkingChimp mentality. I was hoping to have an interesting discussion about “The Constitution”, and, I really don’t think that the Honorable Robert Byrd of West Virginia would really mind. Unfortunately, I find that the climate on DU is more partisan in discussing any immediate ramification of the article by Dean, which I first presented, on the “SHORT TERM” rather than some of the members would consider; as opposed to the possibilities of an intelligent dialogue concerning the attributes of Mr. Dean’s article in the long range development of our nation. I STILL AM OPPOSED TO THE PASSAGE OF Senator Hatch’s Amendment.

:-)

[vetwife]

16. Hey Corey, I think everone is angry about this Bush bunch and

we are all too mad to even consider giving them an inch. Its not you, its our nerves. I am speaking for myself but I bet some of you all feel the heat as well !