I want no Republican "friends"....

[Tyler Durden]

...associates, aquaintances or relatives.

Period.

I don't want to discuss politics with some Republican asshole. I don't want to have drinks with one, share an office with one, have sex with one, or even stop on the side of a road in the rain to help one change a tire.

Fuck them. Fuck them all. I hate them for destroying the nation where I was born. I hate them for making me feel unwelcome in the community where my home is. I hate them for their selfishness which has made a mockery of the democratic process, And I hate them for the death that they deal to the helpless in the name of money.

I repeat; Fuck them all. At this point, I would not cross the street to pick one of them up out of a body of water where they were drowning: GOOD. One less of them to vote for the scum that they support and the filth that they do to the rest of us.

The camel's back is broken, folks. Don't think it's going to heal soon.

[MikeG]

1. What if they're really hot?

[Tyler Durden]

2. The only "hot" Republicans I would enjoy...

...would be ones about 451 degrees Farenheit.

On Edit:

With marshmallows.

[MikeG]

LOL - Good one

[Alexande4Kerry]

98. you could always just use them

I mean you dont have to actually be a 'good' friend to them.

[bvar22]

4. Inner ugliness...

...always erupts through surface beauty.

[maveric]

3. I view repubs like I view those who buy the National Enquirer.

Stupid and not to be taken seriously.

[Tyler Durden]

5. I am beginning to view that level of tolerance...

...as the reason that they have acheived such a level of power.

They are dangerous, and should be treated that way: avoided like the plague, and disempowered wherever possible.

When you turn your back on a cobra, expect to get bitten.

[Blue_Roses]

55. read my signature line

"Never give the enemy a break. Send them to hell."

[donheld]

34. there is a difference

the difference is people who read the National Enquirer are not trying to destroy our country, through ignorance or any other way :bounce:

[LSK]

6. you took the words right out of my mouth

I have been feeling like this for a few months now.

[Tyler Durden]

10. And most of all, I hate them for making me feel this way.

I hold them all personally responsible for the Karmic Debt we all incur because of their evil. I cannot and will not be Gandhi for them to walk over, because they have no conscience, no compassion, and no soul.

Evil is just that, and to quietly tolerate its presence is to acquiesse to its existence.

I no longer grant these evil scum the right to my tolerance.

[Ladyhawk]

18. A friend is trying to tell me to read Ghandi and MLK, Jr.

I just can't shake the anger. I'm furious.

* has polarized the country. My family and "friends" are all voting fascist and I can't forgive them for that.

At one time I could overlook their religious insanity by thinking, "Isn't that cute? Such-and-such has an imaginary friend." It isn't cute anymore. :mad:

[Tyler Durden]

21. They have no conscience.

For the methods of Gandhi or King to work you have to have a human enemy with a conscience. They would watch all of us die a slow death to further their ends. In fact, I firmly believe they would prefer it to converting us.

The Spanish Inquisition has returned, and Torquemada Bush is holding court.

[info being]

108. Exactly. They have made religion the enemy. It wasn't so clear before

They wanna mix politics with religion? Fine. Time to suffer the consequences.

[Damn Hippie]

14. Same here

I used to tolerate them, even try to understand them and empathize with them. No more, I am cutting them all off.

[Blue_Tires]

i used to do the same thing

as a true liberal, my mom always taught me to try to put my biases aside, and try to truly understand where the other side was coming from, and how they formed their own personal viewpoints...from that comes understanding, and a mutual respect for opposing views...

how long ago that seems...I now feel the well has been permanently poisoned, and my patience is at an end

[K-W]

7. I believe the term you are looking for is facists. N/T

[Tyler Durden]

12. There won't be any rest for any of us until every Nazi dies.

I only hope that these filthy poor excuses for humans die off in my lifetime. I doubt this will happen.

[greblc]

8. Have you seen the Pics of

Senator Norm Coleman Wife?

[alittlelark]

28. huh???

[xxqqqzme]

9. I couldn't agree more.

Unfortuately, I have a family absolutely overflowing w/ 'em. I haven't talked 2 my mom since June.

[Ladyhawk]

11. I'm beginning to feel the same way.

And it's scaring me. :( I don't like feeling this way.

[Tyler Durden]

15. I don't like feeling this way either.

I am a Socialist. I marched against every war since Vietnam. I don't like hating these people, but they won't let me not hate them. Their selfish, bigotted, evil excuses for philosophy of life won't permit me to tolerate them anymore.

I especially hate them for this.

[Ladyhawk]

16. Yeah, I understand.

I tried maintaining a friendship with a Republican fundy. It's impossible. And the fact it's impossible pisses me off even more.

[Tyler Durden]

19. It used to be possible to debate, discuss, and resolve differences.

Not any more. They take no prisoners, and offer no quarter.

So be it. I hate their terms of engagement, but they made the rules.

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I propose to give them as much as they can stand." William Tecumseh Sherman

[The Traveler]

13. Beg to differ

First, the goons in power are fascist totalitarians. We might as well say it out loud ... I myself can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt, nor cling to any last shred of hope I am wrong about that.

I know several conservatives who feel the same way. In fact, they were instrumental in convincing me of the true enormity of the threat.

This country is well served when there is rational discourse between liberals and conservatives. Right now, I see lines of war between us are being drawn ... it is senseless, it is stupid, and thanks to W it may be inevitable.

[Tyler Durden]

17. I did not say CONSERVATIVES.

I said REPUBLICANS.

They support BUSH and his cabal of evil. Any decent Conservative wouldn't waste spit on Bush.

I have nothing against an honest conservative; it's REPUBLICANS I refuse to tolerate any longer.

[The Traveler]

23. Divide the Replublicans into several categories

The religious right and the fascists have formed a truly unholy union. Most moderate republicans think they can sleep with this enemy and not get the clap ... they will be sorely disappointed. Other moderate republicans are staying home or voting against Bush.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs. I kinda feel ya ...

[info being]

109. So you are saying you are biased. I see.

Kidding. Don't you F*cking hate that when people suggest you are biased against Repubs?

There's a difference between predjudging and post-judging...we're biased precisely BECAUSE we understand them intimately.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. You've got it right. They won't let you not hate them.

Hate is a word I have made every effort to avoid in my everyday life, always opting to lean toward my own personal redemption in the matter...but it's damn near impossible.

I completely agree with you. I have no use, no respect, and no desire for anyone or anything Republican.

[Djinn]

22. I'm often surprised at the amount of posts here that start with

A republican/fundie friend/relative of mine.... Every time I see it I realise that a lot of people here must be considerably more easy going than me - there's no way I could be friends with someone who beleived that the Rapture is coming, or that we needed to invade Iraq, or that taxes for the rich help everyone etc etc

It'd be like banging my head repeatedly against a brick wall. I'm glad some people can tolerate them though, they may just convert a few.

[Arugula Latte]

25. I'm with ya.

I have no tolerance left. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Thank goodness my family is cool (with one exception) and that I live in Portland where I've been able to build a basically Republican-free life for myself.

I have no respect for Republicans nor Christian nutjobs, and therefore I do not wish to waste my time with these people.

[sleepyhead]

123. Republican-free life.

I will start tomorrow. Cut them all off. Starting with the in-laws and working my way through the list. This is no time for making allowances. They're out of here!

[Ladyhawk]

74. Vanity Repost: Just got back from a fundy's house...

(used to be close friends)

I feel really strange. For two years, I tried to be close to this man and his family. Then I got the obligatory back-stab last October: an insane attempt at proselytization. Luckily, the oldest son has left fundamentalism. Hopefully, he'll stay dogma-free. He's living away from the family. Smart move, if you ask me.

My visit was supposed to be strictly business. His eldest daughter is starting college this year and I built a computer system for her. Because of my neck and back problems, John (the leader of the fundy family) came and got the computer.

John is kind, but I've learned his kindness has ulterior motives. Fundies can only love a person positionally, not essentially. This is due to the dogma of original sin. If a person has not accepted Christ, he is sinful, evil and on his way to hell. Therefore, non-Christians are perceived in one of two ways: 1) temptations, or 2) potential converts. The convert thing didn't work, so I bet I'm relegated to "temptation" sometime in the near future if it hasn't happened already.

I hadn't eaten because I had pushed to finish the computer. I felt guilty when offered food, then I noticed a "Viva Bush" bumper sticker sitting on the counter. My face flushed.

The TV was on, probably the History Channel. Historians were spouting off a list of Hitler's crimes and the wife was making little "horrified sympathy" noises. I wanted to shove the pro-Bush sticker in their faces and say, "Don't you think the Iraqis are dying? Don't you think the Iraqis are starving? All because this evil man started an unnecessary war! He's already putting people in concentration camps! He's already torturing them! Right now it's mostly Arabs, but if this goes on, do you really think he's going to stop there?

"How can you not SEE? How can you not learn from HISTORY? How can you not THINK FOR YOURSELVES for a change. Why is it so impossible for you to question authority???? Jesus H. Fucking Christ, use your MINDS, people!!! Or has fundamentalism completely turned them to mush?"

Sigh.

Mush-minded people believing in talking snakes, hanging on their pastors' every word, never questioning dogma. What is wrong with these people?

I wasn't much of a happy camper for the computer setup. I feel an overwhelming sense of loss every time I'm near fundy and/or right-wing family and friends. I feel so alone. I can't accept their beliefs. I just can't. And if I spend too much time around them, they start shoving it down my throat, accusing me of being demon-possessed and all kinds of crazy-ass shit.

I've gotten to the point where I can't stand to be around people. I don't really know very many people who aren't stark raving lunatics jumping on the Bush bandwagon. So, I go up to the high country. I seek solitude in nature. I walk. I hike. I swim. And I find I like wildlife much, much more than I like fundies.

[Kipepeo]

80. Thank you for an excellent

post Ladyhawk. This was right on point:

"...his kindness has ulterior motives. Fundies can only love a person positionally, not essentially. This is due to the dogma of original sin. If a person has not accepted Christ, he is sinful, evil and on his way to hell. Therefore, non-Christians are perceived in one of two ways: 1) temptations, or 2) potential converts. The convert thing didn't work, so I bet I'm relegated to "temptation" sometime in the near future if it hasn't happened already."

So true. There are many fundies in my extended family. Pretty much everyone except my nuclear unit. :) I've come to realize that it's *hard* for my aunt to have a pleasant conversation with me - to give love *just because* - because in the back of her mind she is always waiting for the right moment to pounce and try again to convert me. She goes through phases where she completely "gives up" on me and I guess that's when I become a temptation because she won't speak to me. She has no reason for speaking to me unless she's convinced herself that she might still "save" me yet.

I drives me crazy that she and the other fundies in my family tie their religion so tightly to their politics. They're all Bush supporters and yet they have near zero knowledge of daily news or even big stories. Think: "Valerie Plame, who?"

They send cheesy freeper forwards with ALL CAP HEADLINES like ANOTHER SIDE OF OUR PRESIDENT with photos of Bush jogging with a soldier who lost his leg to a landmine in Afghanistan, but if you ask them if they knew that Bush didn't allocate any funding for Afghanistan after he bombed the shit out of it and that little kids there get blown up by landmines and Bush has done nothing, they look at you with blank stares or throw some empty, recycled Rush Limbaugh insult at you. There is a complete disconnect for them between current events and the events of our past. Like the fundie family you described watching the Hitler documentary.

I agree with the original poster, with the exception of some of my immediate family. I still talk to my Repub. dad, all of the time, and right now he's leaning Nader as a "protest" vote because he doesn't like Bush but he's been taught to hate Democrats so thoroughly that he can't see himself voting for one. I'm still working on him and my mom. But as for my freeper aunts, uncles and cousins...I have no use for them. They are contributing to evil, murder, greed, profits over people, pollution of our air and drinking water, corruption, corruption, corruption. They're helping to prop up an evil administration and I hold them accountable for it, no matter if they are so fucking ignorant they think they're doing good.

[smirkymonkey]

24. Thank you! I was worried that I was

being too intolerant and narrow minded, but now I feel validated.

A relationship with anyone who espouses Republican values is pointless. We have no common ground. I never used to be this angry and intolerant, but they have pushed me over the edge.

[otohara]

26. No Desire To Associate w/ Thugs

so I don't - won't waste my time

[alittlelark]

27. Damn good rant!!!

I feel the same way, and it is soooo sad. I never thought we could become so divided.

[Booster]

29. I'm with ya. I've lost a couple of old (really old)

friends who are Republicans, and ya know what? I don't miss their sorry asses one damn bit. It was a chore to be around them and when they called me unpatriotic because I said something about Bush, that just did it. Enough is enough - oh, yeah, before I wrote them off I did remind them about listening to them for 8 yrs about Clinton and after that I received an email that said "we won't bother you anymore". Good. Don't.

[alittlelark]

30. Sometimes friendships reach a natural end.....

sometimes they reach a perverted Repuke end. Very Sad. I've lost a few myself.

[coalition_unwilling]

120. For me, it was the current war in Iraq that was the straw

that broke my back.

The truth about no WMD was fairly obvious before the war started and so, people I had once considered friends, I now began to view as willfully ignorant.

This says as much about me as it does about them, I must admit. I have stopped speaking to several people because of the war; I just say to myself "there's not much point anymore".

Do I hate them? At the risk of sounding Clinton-esque, I guess it depends on the meaning of 'hate'. I would say more accurate words to describe my feeling for them now are "contempt" mixed with "indifference."

[CrispyQ]

111. Good point on the 8 years of Clinton bashing . . .

I don't know if I can ever sit at the dinner table with my mother again. She constantly questions the attitude of Anyone But Bush & how much people hate him. I reminded her that she loathed Clinton -- LOATHED HIM. That shut her up.

She goes on about how corrupt the UN is & shouldn't be involved in Iraq at all. I ask her how corrupt she thinks Halliburton/Betchel are? No answer.

I ask why she dislikes Kerry so much. No answer. She can't articulate why she doesn't like him, just that she doesn't. Hey, I may hate Dim son, but I can give you pages of reasons why I do.

They have an amazing ability not to see their contradictory views/beliefs. It simply astounds me how they are so blind to how they are everything they say they aren't. Such hypocrites.

Janeane Garofalo nailed it when she said that anyone who votes for Dim son is either seriously stupid or has serious character flaws.

[screembloodymurder]

130. I've been playing poker w/ the same friends for over 30 years.

I don't feel welcome anymore and I'm sick of their Rethug bigotry's, their arrogant attitudes, and their inability to accept or recognize the inescapable failures of this administration.

It's so bad here I'm thinking about quitting my job and heading to Canada. I work w/ Rush fanatics and Nascar dads. I hate them for their acceptance of a culture I despise, but they don't just accept it, they push it, they preach it, and now they force it on a world already straining under the weight of it. They talk of God while they trash his creation. They are the evil ones.

I fear we are headed for a civil war, a war w/o boundaries, neighbor against neighbor. Bush has unleashed the world's hatred. He is the great deceiver. He is the one. Satan.

[UdoKier]

31. Oh, you democrats with your message of hate.

I just don't understand where all this anti-Bush hatred comes from!

Why, he's governed like a LIBERAL! Giving that money to the blacks in Africa with the AIDS, passing that HUGE medicare program entitlement, and the compassion he's shown by giving tax money to religious groups to heal the victims of demon alcohol.

And he passed the Healthy Forests and Clear Skies initiatives - a bit too tree-huggin' for my taste - and he practically endorsed abortion-on-demand when he allowed that limited stem-cell research to continue.

Maybe you looney leftists will be satisfied when President Bush unveils his new "WAR ON POVERTY II". This one will wipe out poverty altogether by getting rid of the income tax, which confuses the uneducated poor so much, and replacing it with the super-fair FLAT TAX! Wal-mart drones will pay 10% and Bill Gates will pay 10%.

My personal idea is for a new currency system. The "upper tier" will have denominations of $1, 10, 100 thousand and one million, with motifs by Chanel, Prada, Kenzo, Issey Miyake and Marc Jacobs.

The lower tier of currency, for the working class will be called Kooky Kash® and, when scratched off, will have a value of anywhere from zero to $1000! Isn't that just dreamy! It will make the help's day every so often when they scratch to find that this week's pay will actually cover the rent!


Yours, Mrs. John P. T. Worthingtonvilleman III

(parody)

[ibegurpard]

35. They've stolen my family.

I can hardly stand to be in the same room with my mother.

[Wapsie B]

62. Same goes for my old man.

His last years on this earth are full of hate-filled diatribes of every repug talking point out there. He has no time for my kids. He's never been a grandfather to them. My wish is to deliver this bastard's eulogy when the time comes. You think Jimmy Swaggart hollers and screams? You ain't seen nothing.

[Clinton Crusader]

87. My father is a Kennedy Dem...

but rants endlessly how the Dems suck now, and it 'isnt the same party as JFK', and constantly reminds me Im stuck in a party with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. (the only two names he ever uses incidentally).

He's voted repug since 1968. Says after the Kennedys were murdered, the party changed and it's all crap. We fight CONSTANTLY. At family dinners, screaming over the table, him pounding his fist on the table, me screaming back, he loathes Clinton, never shuts up about him.

But.

I noticed lately he's not quite as vocal as he used to be about the repugs. When you bring something up (remember we live in NY) like 9/11, he doesnt fight back as much. When I was talking to him Sunday and all the caskets went by at the protest, he's was very silent and contemplative. When my mother or I bring up the boy king's obsession with war, having no game plan for said war or the aftermath, invading a country which did nothing to us, (the BIG one)--> not doing on damn thing about 9/11-NYC, he just says "hmmm". I do believe there may be a light at the end of his tunnel by election day.
:kick:

[Wapsie B]

119. My father cheered when they shot JFK

and then MLK & RFK. Oh and John Lennon too.

[Carolina]

127. OMG

where does all that hate come from?!

[Wapsie B]

133. I've wondered that myself.

My thought is that it's due to years of being obedient, not thinking for yourself and just buying into the anger and hate that's been sold so easily by the gop for years. It's absolutely impossible to have a civil conversation with daddy. He's just a boiling cauldron of anger; has been for years. He's the epitome of the angry white male.

[Carolina]

128. that's so sad

I loved talking politics with my Mom because she was soooo informed and we were such kindred spirits. We would talk for hours about the bastards who reviled Clinton and went after him relentlessly. Five years ago tomorrow, I lost her to a stroke (really sudden, really bad one). How I miss her and our talks!

[Tigerlily]

43. Kooky Kash!

Very clever. LMAO. :)

[Swamp Rat]

32. Here's a repuglican I hate

Since they hate veterans (which includes my father, uncles, and cousins), I therefore hate them.

[Tsiyu]

33. I have to remind myself that

people can change. While it's true I can only change myself, I can be instrumental in another's change by my example.

I have to limit the time I spend with Repugs, but the ones i know are so ill informed discussing politics is like trying to teach a 2-year- old quantum physics. I take baby steps with them. I care about them. They're worth it.

There are other Repugs I wouldn't get near with a ten foot pole, but I have to go with my gut on the close Repugs and hope they will see the light.

Life is short and if you can lose friends that easily you are very fortunate.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

36. One of the few benefits to not having a fulltime job

Is not having to maintain a professional demeanor with the scumsucking hatemongers who decorate their cubes with anti-liberal bullshit and e-mail "jokes" about Bill & Hillary, etc. Even after I was laid off I would get this shit under the guise of "keeping in touch"; I changed service providers and made real friends swear not to distribute my new address.

As a freelancer I don't get involved enough to discuss any personal information with staffers. I don't have Republican friends and I'm not aware of any family members or acquaintances who are GOP. I feel great empathy for anyone who has to work with these pukes on a daily basis. I think it would be hard to resist smashing them in the mouth.

[ellie]

37. I find myself unable

to tolerate willful ignorance as well. My DH's brother is a union worker and has a wife and two kids. He claims he is too "busy" to stay up with politics, relying on his wife's right-wing asshole father for his political viewpoint. This is from a guy who can rattle off the times from Dale Earnhardt Jr's latest race, plus the times of the top five finishers, but can't be bothered with anything else. Which by itself would be fine, but he uses it as an excuse. An example: He won't vote for Kerry because John Edwards is a lawyer. That's his reason. When you point out to him that Lincoln was a lawer, he gets that glazed look in his eye. I told him to stay home on election day.

When I was young and naive I used to think that good will win out over evil. After reflecting on the past 40 years in politics, I don't believe that anymore.

[MadHound]

38. And thus we enable our oppresors to divided us and hold us in thrall

Face it people, this is what the powers that be want. A divided populace is a populace that is much easier to control. If you keep different segments of the population at each others' throats over race, religion, politics, whatever, the easier that population is to manipulate.

Face it people, we have more in common with your ordinary Joe six pack conservative than we do with the monied elite of either party. MLK recognized this, and was shot for it. Malcom X recognized this, and was shot for it. It is the thing that is the most feared, the coming together of the American people, all the American people, to drive out the bastards who hold all of our lives as political hostage.

Instead of hating these people, and retreating to an enclave of only like minded people, reach out and make connections on issues that you have in common. Our diminishing Bill of Rights, our ever increasing scrutiny, the obscene amount of money that is being made by the top tier, the lack of adequate medical care. It is amazing, if you go down the liberal agenda point by point how many supposed conservatives will agree with you.

But whatever you do, don't allow yourself to be manipulated into one small reservation, perpetually at odds with some vague "other". This only plays into the hands of those who would keep us down. Instead, reach out and preach out, join up with ALL of your brothers and sisters, so that we can take back our country. Anything else will only doom us to corporate serfdom.

[Disturbed]

40. Nice speech.

The problem is that Bushmoonies and Neo Fascists will not consider rational discourse. They have their concepts that they feel are 100% correct and no amount of logic will alter their views. I have been on a few other boards and got weary of trying to discuss anything with Rabid Right Wingers. I don't hate them but I dislike them to the point that I will not discuss politics or social issues with them. It's a waste of energy and time.

[MadHound]

44. These people are your friends, family, neighbors, coworkers

You talk to them everyday. You enjoy the same sports, root for the same teams, want the best for your children, want a comfortable life for yourself, want peace and justice for the world. There is more uniting us than dividing us if we would only take a look at society. Yet here we are, more divided than ever, at each others' throat, and the only ones who benefit are the power elite, who orchestrate and manipulate us in order to sustain this artificial divide, all so that they can remain in power, all the better to make us all corporate slaves. It is time for a real change in this country, otherwise we are all lost.

Get off of those political boards, they are intentionally set up to either be echo chambers or battlegrounds, neither of which promotes true unity. Instead, get out and talk with your friends, family and neighbors. This country has become increasingly insular. We get up, go to work, come home and rarely spend time out in the world, talking with our neighbors. Get out and about, talk to people, start coming together one person at a time. It is a long slow process, but if we all started doing this, we would reach a critical mass in a short period of time, and then throw the controlling manipulative bastards out of their mansion on the hill, returning government of the people, by the people and for the people back to the people.

There is truly nothing, nothing in our society that cannot be rationly discussed with a reasonable, sensible conclusion as the outcome. Compromise is the great American way, but sadly it is becoming a lost art. If we truly are going to live in the country that we all dream of, then we have to stop letting the artificial barriers, talk radio, polarized media, good-evil, bipolar mind set, dictate our interactions. Rather than approach a person as an enemy, approach them as a friend. Rather than approach them as unenlightened fools to be converted, approach them as a fellow human whose opinions are as valid as yours. Yes, there are always going to be people out there who will hang onto their irrational mindset no matter what. But these people are the ten percenters, the underwhelming minority. The vast majority of people in this country are rational, caring people. If you approach them as such, rather than as an enemy, you can start changing the world, one person at a time.

[IrateCitizen]

88. Actually TALK to people? Face to face? What a novel concept!

I spent about 2.5 weeks out West on Army Reserve training with a guy I've known for several years. He's pretty much a Freeper type, but we've always gotten along nonetheless. He calls me his "favorite liberal", and kept talking about how he was going to "Hannitize" me, which I told him was a synonym for "lobotomize".

But when we talked about individual issues, the funniest thing happened. Public financing for elections? Both for it. Reining in corporations? Both for it. Creating a military meant for defense of the US only rather than global adventurism? Both for it. Investing in alternative energies? Both for it. Significantly increasing fuel efficiency standards? Both for it. Redistributing school funding to poorer areas? Both for it. We both also agreed that the overwhelming majority of politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle aren't worth a bucket of warm spit.

Granted, there were still significant differences between us. His main complaint is that the government just takes too much of his money in taxes. And as much as I tried, I just couldn't get him to realize that the Republicans are working harder AGAINST all of these things than the Democrats are. He's still a staunch Bush supporter, and just leaves me walking away, shaking my head in disbelief more than anything else. But it became apparent to me that he's this way not because he's some kind of complete ignorant asshole, but rather because of a steady stream of propaganda. I may not have converted him, but at the very least over 2.5 weeks, I got him to realize that there were many specific ideas that he strangely enough agrees with someone from the far left on.

I dunno. I'm frustrated by the fact that someone like this guy is still voting against his own interest and voting for Bush. But I also can't help but feel slightly encouraged that a guy who considers himself ultra-conservative can still find so much to agree with a democratic socialist.

[MadHound]

99. I hear you on both points

It is amazing that people continue to vote against their own self interest, yet it is incredibly encouraging to realize that people supposedly on the "other side" actually agree with you more times than not. And quite frankly, I agree with your friend about people having to pay too much in taxes. More and more of the tax burden has been put on the middle and lower class over the past twenty five years, with the upper class continously getting a break.

I've had to hammer away at some of my more "conservative" friends and family for months before they finally see the light. You are correct, twenty years of propoganda has done an immense amount of damage, damage that cannot be undone by polarizing Us vs Them type of thinking, damage that takes time to repair.

But it can be done. I've had success with many conservative friends, family and neighbors. Some of them can't quite bring themselves to pull the lever for Kerry, so they are going to vote for Nader instead, but many others are actually going to pull for Kerry this fall. I think, especially among the old school 'Pugs, that the issue of crushing deficits really sticks in their craw, especially after watching Reagan do the same thing. I also believe that the only real social issue that is truly a problem is that of abortion. Yet that can even be compromised around with a little practice.

I just think that this polarizing bipolar Us vs Them type of thinking is, in the long run, counter-productive. While we are divided and at war, the corporate/power elite are united, and are sewing our future up in a sack. It is high time that all Americans came together in order to promot the better good, and put the power of our government back into the hands of us, where it belongs.

[phrenzy]

110. Beautiful

Such a beautiful and profound post. I am going to try to memorize it and recite it as a speech to others.

[DWolper]

121. Excellent

Maybe you and Selwynn can get together and bring a little civility to public discourse.

[Tyler Durden]

41. "You say you want a REVOLUTION..."

MLK and Malcom were not shot by the power elite. They might have ORDERED it, but "Joe Sixpack Bigot" did the shooting.

In order to have a Nazi Party, you have to have Brown Shirts and Storm Troopers. The Republicans have figured out (as Gaius Julius Caesar did so many years ago) that if you just do "US vs THEM," then there are always troops just waiting to bust heads and burn synagogues.

The Republican Party in its current incarnation will not be satisfied with anything less than the political version of Krystalnacht, Blitzkreig, and the Final Solution. They are bringing on Political Ragarnok, and personally, I hope that when the smoke clears that they have gone the way of the WHIGS, KNOW-NOTHINGS, and BULLMOOSE parties.

I say again: Fuck them. They are beneath my contempt, and I hate them for what they have done in the name of their evil agenda.

[MadHound]

46. And yet you hold the key to our ultimate victory within your post

You hit it on the head friend, US vs THEM. That is exactly the mindset we need to change. The power elite, with the help of the corporate media, have promoted and fostered this innoculation of hate into our society, and have been so successful that they now have otherwise rational people howling for the blood of their perceived "enemy". And this is the mindset that we have to combat.

There is only one way to do this, and that is one person at a time. Get out, get to know your neighbors. Find your commonalities, and build on it. Most people in this country agree on most issues. Even on the most outrageous freeper boards you see positions on issues that mimic ours, the War on Drugs, the loss of civil liberties, the devastation of outsourced jobs. Instead of setting these people up as enemies, as people to either convert or kill, view them as opportunities, people to get to know and compromise with. For if we continue to demonize these people, and they continue to demonize us, then we all lose because we will simply being playing into the hands of the power elite, fighting amongst ourselves while they steal the country.

[av8rdave]

105. Well said!

While repub/conservative friends of mine (who know my political views) often espouse beliefs I don't agree with, the last think I want to do is behave like so many of them have over the years. I try to separate politics from friendship, mostly because in the end it makes us look so much better than what I call the party of hate and elitism.

When someone on occasion acts hostile towards me because of me beliefs, I simply ask which part of "compassionate conservatism" is driving their behavior right now.

Usually shuts 'em up,

av8rdave

[bpilgrim]

131. well said

thanks for sharing that truth :toast:

peace

[cthrumatrix]

39. don't say that.... I have swayed many to change

[Puglover]

42. If they were dying of thirst

I would not give them water to drink with "no ill regrets"
:evilgrin:

Seriously, I agree, I'm over the throwgbacks here too.

[qwlauren35]

45. Easy, easy...

Remember, SOME Republicans are voting for Kerry!

:-)

[skypilot]

47. This probably isn't a good time to ask you...

...if you saw the Bush twins' dog and pony show at the convention last night.

[Tyler Durden]

49. Nope. But as far as Galbraith is concerned:

I don't believe that these scum are involved in any sort of moral dilemma or discussion of any kind; internal or external.

They believe they are RIGHT, and if that is so, then we are WRONG, and anything they do to further their version of RIGHT is justified. Moral doesn't enter into it: they are, by their own definition, the paridigm of morality.

[Surf Cowboy]

48. Hear, hear.

That's exactly how I feel. I wouldn't piss on a Republican's head if it was on fire.

Fuck every last one of them, period.

This asshole wins again, and I probably am going to leave the country. I've always wanted to live in the Caribbean.

[MadHound]

50. Don't buy into the power elites' ploys friend

They want us divided, they want us at each others' throats. That way they can control the populace and rob the country blind. You have more in common with your Republican neighbor than you do with any rich Democrat, including Kerry.

This is the power elites' greatest fear, that we will unite and turn on them, the real perpatrators of many crimes. People like Malcolm X and MLK have been killed in order to prevent this from happening. Don't let the hate rule you. Reach out instead and work with these people in the spirit of true American kinship and compromise. Otherwise you're just another fool falling for their game.

[Kazak]

51. I don't hate Republicans, per se...

It's Bush* supporters that I can't stomach. Big difference now-a-days.

[Tyler Durden]

53. Bush Supporter = Republicans as far as I'm concerned.

They get in line behind the standard bearer, and in this case, followers of Satan are followers of Satan. Period.

[RandomKoolzip]

52. Why do you hate America, America-hater?

Eat flaming death, fascist media pigs!

[seabeyond]

54. me either, i dont even want to see father and brother. and i love

them so. told husband last nite,...............they are scum, all of them, all republicans. cannot be any less than that. and i am a nice person, lol lol embrace love all. bah ha hah a

but i am serious, i look at father and say my kids, are you being stupid and self absorbed with something so huge as my kids future, how dare you............because of your retarded little male issue you are having cause the crotch grabbling male isnt effective anymore,. the war mongering i can be stupid, and just male and aggressive and that is enough for me to be boss

i am saying the girlie man, scares these mans man more than, i a mouthy female does

nah.............girlie men havent replaced me yet, i really am the ultimate in fear factor for these men, by far, hands down

[Alpha Wolf]

56. You are letting them win...

When you think and talk like this. Just listen to yourself. You hate them? You want them to die? You would watch them drown, and with satifaction?

Don't let our hatred of their ideas turn into hatred of people. Don't let our fear of their tyranny turn us into tyrants.

Remember what JC said, regardless of what you may believe about him, "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you". That is the higher road.

[Selwynn]

57. Your sentiment is at the heart of what is broken in our nation.

My mother and father have traditionally voted Republican most of their life - this year my mother may not vote, but I dad will probably still vote for Bush.

My best friend has been raised in a Republican household all of his life, and only after meeting me has he started to re-think a lot of things. Still, its a slow process, and the chances are he'll vote for Bush this year.

These are good people, and my life would be greatly diminished if I walked away from them because I had such an extreme attitude of hatred and indecency toward anyone who sees things differently than I do.

Good people will vote for Bush this year. They will be misguided in the vote, I certainly agree. But just talking as much time to talk about politics with people who aren't political junkies gives me an interesting perspective - and I'm reminded of how complicated and difficult it is to really get at truth.

I have living experience with many people who literally agree with my heart in its deepest principles, but who have thought one way about politics for so long that undoing that is complicated. If these people don't all vote the exact way I do that doesn't mean they deserve to be berated or humiliated by me.

What's more is your attitude reflects what I believe is most broken in society, and it isn't the fault of neo-conservatives. The bigger problem that transcends the political divide is this kind of narrow minded rancor that treats everyone who sees things differently as the detestable enemy. It is the same attitude we see in free republic extremists. It is the same attitude we see in radical fundamentalism. It is the same attitude we see everywhere there is violence and warfare and suffering.

I embraced the Democratic party precisely to get away from the exact attitude you reflect. Because I believe that in liberalism and progressivism, there is at the core of the ideas, a commitment to brotherhood, an recognition that we are relational creatures, in an interdependent society, and we must cultivate an attitude of care-taking and concern - we do that by example. It isn't easy, and it isn't always met with open arms. But we do it anyway, we do it because its right.

I'm a liberal and progressive not because I believe in the sound bite statements of platform - I am a liberal and progressive because I am convinced that at the root of these convictions is a commitment to a healthier heart, and a better, more humane, more merciful (mercy is given to those who don't deserve it - if you deserve it, its not mercy) way of living and moving within our society.

If we sacrifice that, we sacrifice everything that matters, and there's no point to being a "democrat." We will end up exactly like them in our bitterness, closed-mindedness and disdain for others. And I will oppose that trend for as long as I live and love.

[DemExpat]

61. Beautiful post, Selwynn!

You said it very well.

I struggle almost every day with feelings of hate and fear towards those with different visions/beliefs, but know deep down that living my life as an example - even knowing that others will ignore or reject me as I am - is the only way to any brotherhood.

Drawing the lines with hatred will lead nowhere, of this I am certain.

DemEx

[Susang]

66. Wholeheartedly agree

I did not read your post before I posted below, though I wish I had. You and I appear to believe the same thing, though you said it far more eloquently than I did. I hope some of the very angry posters here take the time to read it.

[Tyler Durden]

67. Sorry, Selwynn, but his has become Armegeddon, Ragarnok, what have you.

The forces around, inside and allied with the Republicans no longer respect difference, diversity, or other points of view.

They don't say, "Well, that's your point of view," they say, "NO! YOU'RE WRONG! AND BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU MEAN NOTHING."

You are trying to negotiate with Nazis. All that gets you is Auschwitz, and sorry, but me and my family are not going to get on the train just to prove how "nice" we are.

Time to storm the Bastille, and if it brings on the "Guillotine" for the Republicans and their ilk, then GOOD.

[Selwynn]

76. I'd rather be in Auschwitz and be right, than be a Nazi Collaborator

When you give into these attitudes and tactics, that's the analogy that fits.

[Tyler Durden]

79. NO! Wrong analogy!

I propose to be part of the RESISTANCE MOVEMENT. Fight from the sewers of Paris and Krakow.

I'm not going to COOPERATE with them, I'm going to oppose them even more strongly than I ever did, and if that doesn't work, I'll become a refugee with my family.

[IrateCitizen]

91. Both are wrong analogies

I'd rather be a nonviolent anarchist condemned by both sides before and after the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, than be either a Tsarist sycophant or a Bolshevik.

Your attitudes echo those of the Bolsheviks who set upon a campaign of retribution and solidification of power after their overthrow of the Czarist regime.

I stay away from extremism because it requires a certain amount of dehumanization of the "enemy". I oppose militarism because it involves a significant amount of dehumanization of the "enemy". I refuse to strip of their humanity those who adopt philosophies I don't agree with -- even those who adopt philosophies I find utterly abhorrent -- because as soon as I do so, I have become little more than a mirror image of them.

... but if you want money for people with minds that hate,
all I can tell ya is brother you'll have to wait....

[Selwynn]

96. I agree however the original analogy is what was wrong

But sticking with this broken analogy, the "resistance" movement didn't round up Germans and put them in gas chambers. If they had, they would have been just as wrong.

When you manifest every wrong in the name of being "right" you can never be the latter.

[Tyler Durden]

103. I may hate them, but I don't want to KILL them.

Now of course if a few of them die due to their choices, that's the luck of the draw, as it is for us all.

I prefer the "Storming the Bastille" analogy to be more accurate. A nice popular uprising would not trouble my conscience any.

[Selwynn]

107. The difference is incidental

[Tyler Durden]

113. Nope. I don't grant you that one.

I don't want them rounded up and killed, but I'm sick and tired of them running the country into the ground.

I would settle for their philosophy fading into the dustbin of history.

[Buck Rabbit]

75. Ah come on can't I hate them here?

In real life I have no problem working and playing with Repugnants. I really cant maintain hate for people on a personal basis. I guess being so dang lovable myself melts their cold little hearts and lets their humanity show through.

But here in my alloted one or two posts a week I like to vent my frustration at people who think its fine, even noble, to kill thousands of people because they might do something in the future that they have never done in the past.

[DWolper]

115. Selwynn, that was beautiful

I am discouraged at this new generation of political activism. I have never seen such hate from one against another because they - disagree! It is alarming to read how many can agree with this main post which is so filled with rage and hatred. I have noticed a line that runs rampant through Democratic Underground: Republican Talking-Points. It seems that any attempt to temper our fellow Democrats emotional reactions (that are at times nothing more than this same kind of rage and hatred), are shot down with more fury by calling them, "Republican talking-points." Decency, love, patience, the ability to see the grey in life, character; these are all things that seem to be missing in so many activists in both parties - and they are "talking-points" that know no ideology. And it's a damn shame. You said it better than I could, so I will stop and just say thank you for a truly beautiful and moving post. Keep the faith, my friend.

[Jose Diablo]

118. A post filled with decorum and civility

I still say piss on Ronald Wilson Reagan and the horse he rode in on.

[callous taoboy]

132. Selwyn, I agree with a lot of what you say.

I, too, work with many republicans who are good, decent folks and when I am at my angriest with the republican machine I have to remind myself that there is something terribly wrong right now in busherica, and a lot of these good folks have simply been duped.

But on the other hand, I truly believe that our gov't has been taken over by some of the most crooked, heartless beasts any society has ever produced. And I don't like what it has done to my family. I now have bigots for brothers, for example, whereas (assuming this wasn't some dormant trait in them waiting to jump out) never once before the bush II era did I ever pick up a racist vibe from them. Quite simply, bush in all of his macho cowboy b-movie b.s., has ramped up the machismo levels in this country to the point where we have a republican party on a steroid rage, unable to keep their lies straight, line dancing with the corrupted and the corrupting, and I can't help but get angry that people will vote for him what with all of the obvious, unabashed callousness
the party exudes. It's to the point where even Jimmy Carter, always the soft-spoken man of honesty, diplomacy and integrity, gives a feisty speech at the DNC. That, to me, spoke volumes. Tells Ralph Nader to go back to looking at the back ends of cars. I.E. too much is at stake here, Ralph!

[rniel]

58. Yes

I want to only work with democrats. This morning I come in to work and have to listed to them talking about the Republican convention. I put my headphones on and cranked up AC/DC. I didn't even want to listen

[LibDemAlways]

71. I lasted 10 months at a part-time

job where my co-workers were stupid freepers who listened to Rush and Hannity all day. They were the meanest, most vile, hate-filled people I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. I don't think they said 10 words to me the entire time I worked there.

Anyone who would waste their life listening to rw radio and/or even consider voting for the chimp might as well be dead because their brains already are. I'm not going to waste a second associating with a bunch of walking corpses.

[DWolper]

122. Your avatar

Interesting that you have John Lennon in your avatar. I once produced a little film about John Lennon; and I can tell you with complete confidence that he would disagree with your post. Just - Imagine.

[LibDemAlways]

134. I don't think John Lennon had any tolerance

for the kind of hate that oozes from the pores of the people I wrote about in the post. If he was alive today, I think he'd be a very vocal critic of the Bush cabal and rw radio. Unfortunately I never met the man, but I know he had a very keen bs meter.

[allemand]

59. Read Michael Moore and think again. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

60. I don't "hate"them....but

I've been thinking about the Republicans I'm either a friend
or relative with lately, sorting out the differences.  I
cannot fathom why ANYBODY would ever, ever vote for
Bush--republican or no.  So, I understand my Father, who
although wise enough to quit listening to Limbaugh in his
early years, now gets all his political information from
Limbaugh spawns or TV. For the first time, he is out of
ammunition when we argue.  He spews out nonsense from his
news/information sources, that I am easily able to counter. 
My tax guy, also a republican, is much more moderate, but told
me the other day that "Kerry is an idiot" I just
didn't have the energy to get into it with him, although I am
planning on it soon.  My point:  both these people vote solely
on self-interest.  My father thinks about things like capital
gains tax cuts getting repealed, and my tax guy, who is a
friend, has many wealthy clients, buys into the
"cooperations pay most of the taxes and hire the
people-create jobs blah blah.. Both my friend and my father
are generous, and will do nice things for people, but even
there, a closer look will reveal self-interest, ego
gratification, future favors stuff like that. There is very
little energy put into consideration for the greater good,
like a good democrat does.  Improving public schools,
protecting the environment realistic tax cuts for the middle
and lower classes etc., you guys know the list better than I
do most likely.  Because these things are outside of self
interest. No instant gratification. No perks.  Hard thinking
and hard work, a devotion to creating positive change,
learning the facts about an issue.  Now I know democrats, or
progressive people, or just pinko hippie liberals like myself
are not perfect, but what is going on in the Republican mind
over the last few years to me is the destructive, backward,
non-thinking thinking I've seen in a long time.  I don't want
to talk to them either, but I love a good fight, so I will  

[Kipepeo]

82. Great post!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

The Republicans I know vote either completely on self-interest (greed) or on the basis of lies and misinformation (ignorance).

The greed thing I don't know how we can combat, but the ignorance thing I used to think was fixable....now I'm not so sure. It seems like all of the mainstream media has become a mouthpiece for the propaganda of the Right-Wing.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kipepeo]

85. ah but we do have a king, we do

Welcome to DU! :hi:

This president was not elected by the people, through either popular or electoral vote. He was appointed by his father's friends on the Supreme Court.

My government does not represent me, and I have never felt such hostile divide between both "sides." If the Boy-King has done one thing it's been to divide us like never before.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mandate My Ass]

93. Based on the facts

during the lead up to the 2000 presidential election, believing Bush would win the popular vote but lose on electoral votes, his advisers were leaking all over the press about how unfair the electoral college was and planned to fuel outrage that the will of the people had been thwarted.

Bush lost. A statewide recount (not even factoring in the tens of thousands of legitimate voters who were thrown off the voting rolls by a private Republican company ((the first time in the history of this country that voting priveleges were being granted or suspended via private business))would have shown that Gore did indeed win.

Even the NYT admitted it.

Get real.

[Susang]

64. What you may want vs the reality of the situation

I do have a few Republican friends. I was friends with them before they called themselves Republicans and I am friends with the person, not the espoused ideology. To me, that's what being a liberal is supposed to be about. Seems to me, if you hate them for their ideology alone, then you may as well call youself a Republican yourself, because you will be no better.

We are talking about human beings here. I'm not willing to fuck everyone over just because I'm angry. If you are, then perhaps you aren't as liberal as you think you are.

[Tyler Durden]

70. This has nothing to do with how "Liberal" anyone is.

I see this as an issue of the very survival of the nation, and obviously you don't.

I no longer believe that a person can be a "Nice Guy" and believe in what is the modern equivalent of slavery. The modern Republican Party/Bush Supporters are no better than the Plantation and Slave Owners of the South. If you can be friends with them, while they support this travesty on the body politic that the Republican Party has become, then I'm sorry because I cannot understand your "disconnect."

Stupid IS as Stupid DOES. Refering to the Republicans, not you.

[Susang]

73. Yes, it does

The very survival of our nation hinges on us all finding a common ground. Deciding that I and others like me are disconnected because we refuse to separate from anyone who says they are a Republican is going to do far more harm than good. You will end up driving away the very people who could help win this thing. After all, how many people do you think have friend, family, etc., who are Republicans? Do you honestly expect everyone to throw over the people they have loved and cared for their entire lives?

Loving thy neighbor as myself isn't just my "disconnect", after all. I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think that the golden rule is a pretty good standard to work with in regards to interpersonal relationships.

[Tyler Durden]

77. To have common ground, you have to believe it exists.

The current incarnation of the Republican Party does not believe they have anything in common with us. Note I do not call them "subhuman, idiots, morons," which, they are not.

What they ARE is convinced, in a quasi-religious form of political ecstasy, that they and their "philosophy" are the one and only true saviors of the nation and freedom.

You cannot fight fanatics. You can only oppose them, and hope to God that you win, because they take no prisoners.

I would meet ANY "Conservative" on middle ground; Republicans are NOT Conservatives, and they consider that anyone who believes, actually, just like you do is not only the enemy, but the ULTIMATE AND ONLY ENEMY. A traitor, a turncoat who "hates America."

You can't fight the Nazis with love: it didn't work the last time either.

[Susang]

83. The common ground is that we are all human beings

And not all Republicans are necessarily monsters. It helps to remember that. You speak of Republicans almost exactly the same way they speak of Democrats, as fanatical true believers who only believe that their way is the right way. It sounds so familiar, its scary.

I think that perhaps you are using the term "Republican" as a catch-all term for fanatical right-wing conservatives. Contrary to what you are stating, there are many moderate Republicans out there. Many believe, perhaps incorrectly, that they need to change their party from the inside. Demonizing them as they demonize us does neither side any good.

[IrateCitizen]

92. Couldn't have said it better myself, susang

As soon as we allow ourselves to discount their humanity, we become little more than mirror images of them.

I, personally, refuse to allow that to happen. Even as I pass them every day walking to and from my workplace right across from MSG in NYC.

[Tyler Durden]

112. Moderate Republicans: Like Arnold?

Give me a break.

When the non-neocon Republicans SPEAK OUT against Bush and his evil, THEN I will grant you your point.

As I said, I have tons of respect for CONSERVATIVES, not REPUBLICANS.

And yeah, they're human beings; just not very nice ones.

[DemExpat]

78. History and present wars show how fruitful this mentality is......

drawing lines in the sand with hatred NEVER lead anywhere positive, only to more suffering and destruction.

This opposition of views has always existed, and the only hopeful thing I can see happening is for Americans to call out the BULLIES for what they are, and to constantly get the message/request out for mutual respect and understanding......this will take a much more open MEDIA in the US.

Much depends on this, I'm afraid.

DemEx

[Ladyhawk]

116. Like I said above, I don't LIKE feeling this way.

"I was friends with them before they called themselves Republicans and I am friends with the person, not the espoused ideology."

The thing is, I can't compartmentalize a person's "espoused ideology" from their personhood. Their ideology affects everything they do and say.

"Seems to me, if you hate them for their ideology alone, then you may as well call youself a Republican yourself, because you will be no better."

Is it wrong to hate fascists because of their ideology? Is it wrong to be intolerant of intolerance? I don't know.

I'm not even sure what I feel is hate. It's more like very strong anger mixed with infinite sadness because I realize my family and some "friends" espouse a fascist philosophy. Their ideology affects their morality (or lack thereof) and that affects me. It affects others as well. Their ideology is part and parcel of who they are.

I don't want to hate anyone, but I don't think the MLK, Jr./Ghandi route works for me. I think I'll have to find a middle ground where I don't hate them, but I don't have close relationships with them, either.

One thing I've learned from leaving fundamentalism is that the world is not black and white. The Repubs I know aren't entirely evil, but that doesn't mean I want to share my close secrets with them. I don't know very many Dems, but I'm sure they're not entirely good.

Right now, I'm very angry because of the experience I had with my fundy "friend." I was on the middle road for awhile and was fine. When * got his bounce and I saw the "Viva Bush" sticker on my "friend's" counter nearly a year after he backstabbed me and tried to convert me...that was just too much. I've been crying all week. I'm just so very sad.

The middle road...I just have to find it again.

[Tyler Durden]

129. The abolitionists called the slaveholders evil and sinnners.

It didn't matter that they went to church, loved their families, were kind to their dogs.

They held people in bondage as property, and felt it was moral: THAT made them monsters.

They are monsters. And it is no sin to abhor and fear monsters.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. I Own My Own Business Now

but I had three bosses when I worked...


The two Puke bosses were total monsters...


The Dem boss was as good as gold....

[recidivist]

68. I want to win elections.

Some people are in politics to vent personal frustrations. Others, myself included, are more interested in moving the country in a positive direction. Winning elections is a necessary means to that end.

In recent elections, roughly half the country has been voting Republican. In 2000, slightly less than half did so at the presidential level; since 1994, slightly more than half have done so in congressional, gubernatorial, and state legislative races. The country is closely divided, and neither Party can win elections by demonizing the other half of the electorate right at the start.

To win, we have to study the opposition, understand what makes them tick (without conspiratorialist fantasies), exploit wedge issues to splinter the opposing coalition, and look out for issues on which we can attract crossover support.

Bill Clinton did this brilliantly. He won. A good lesson to remember.

[Bread and Circus]

69. My 2 best friends are Republicans....staunch....

but they are two of the most generous, competent,
caring, and giving people I know....

One is a local business-person.
The other is a Reservist serving in a non-combat capacity in Iraq.

Demonizing people won't help.

It might be comforting to know that my soldier friend is very sour
against the war and has become decidedly against George Bush.

[Tyler Durden]

72. If your Soldier friend opposes Bush...

...then he is a Republican in his mind only, sort of like how Zell Miller is a Democrat.

If he voiced this view to other "Republicans," they would hound him out of the party.

Republican saying: "Republicans don't tolerate their moderates: they either convert them or kick them out." (Seen on a coffee cup from the Michigan Republican Party, 1992).

[Bread and Circus]

90. Yeah, actually he holds a lot of views diametrically opposed...

to the conservative doctrine.

He's vehemently opposed to the death penalty for instance.

However, like a lot of people, he has "brand loyalty".

[noiretextatique]

81. i have no republican friends

only one family member that was republican (deceased), no republican neighbors, and no one at work who will admit to being a republican. once, a few years ago, i worked with a newt supporter, but i left that ojob before newt went down in flames. the guy was a nice enough fellow...just young and terminally naive.
i don't hate the people, but i detest the ideology...always have.
i am african-american, and i think you will find that many (if not most) african-americans consider the republican party THE ENEMY, not just the opposition, because of its platform and policies...and of course some of its more racist members, not to mention its blatant appeals to some mythical, nostalgic past (which wasn't that great for my folks).
i grew up in california, and i currently live and work in the oakland/berkeley area. there are probably more greens and socialists here than there are republicans.
in so many ways, i don't have the life circumstances that so many talk about here, e.g. having politically conservative relatives, co-workers, and neighbors.
even my relatives who are religious conservatives know they are still african-american, and that reality tends to make them rabidly democratic...and of course, they live in texas.

[Susang]

86. I can honestly say that I wish I didn't

I wish the friends and family members I have that are Republican were not. Many of them weren't when they were younger. Sometimes age and fear take over and change people, make them do strange things that seem out of character.

Still, I'm not going to call them Nazis because they don't understand things as I do. Often, its just a matter of ignorance. They don't know what I do. After 9/11, a lot of people didn't want to know. That's why I feel that it is so important to not give up on those who call themselves Republican, whether they are our friends, neighbors or relatives.

I have changed a few minds in the past two years that might not have been moved if I had cut off contact with these people because of their stated political beliefs. It does us no good to isolate ourselves among like-minded people while the rest of the country burns. People can and often do change their minds. It just takes some time and a helluva lot of effort.

[noiretextatique]

100. i think it has a lot to do with lack of...something

perhaps it's just the ability to change perspectives. there is a link between lack of creativity and adopting authoritarian views.
i also think the rw is good at personalizing issues that aren't personal. an example: an under-acheiving white guy who is upset about affirmative action. the rw tells him his problem is not him and his lack of skills, but that the race card is unfairly stacked against him.
perhaps authoritarianism is a draw to some people because it simply makes them feel good and comfortable without challenging them to think very much.
i think the answer (to some many things) is what you are doing:
each one, teach one.
even though my relatives are democrats, many of them
are also very conservative. some of them supported the ban on gay marriage, for example, and some support the war. if racism wasn't a republican party family value, i could see some of them switching.

[davhill]

84. They've felt that way about "liberals" for decades

We cannot both stay this way forever. Niether is going to successfuly kill off the other half of the country so we are going to have to learn to live together somehow.

[Zorra]

94. Yeah, fuck 'em. They've been trying to destroy America in every way

since the Federalist John Adams was elected 2nd President of the US.

If we can limit private control of our public airwaves and press, and have a publically financed, independent and honest media not controlled by wealthy, RW, republican special interests, the republican party will die a quick death.

The only reason the republican party still exists is because of the toxic BS the RW media has been steadily poisoning our country with for the last 25 years.

[Butterflies]

95. I'm glad you started this post. I'm with you.

I have some fundie family members who I haven't been able to deal with for a long time now. Also I don't want friends who are repugs because life is too short for me to waste time arguing with people like that - there are enough other people in the world to make friends with.

[UdoKier]

97. I could not associate with vocal right-wing republicans.

I have no interest in friendships with fundamentalist Christians, whose values are SICK.

I have no interest in friendships with greedhead liertarian repugs. Their values are equally sick.

I have some friends who vote both dem and repug and I can deal with that to a degree.

I also have friends who keep their political views to themselves, and I rrespect that.

My yuppie brother is one. He will discuss issues, play devil's advocate, etc. and he may vote repug on many occasions, but he NEVER tells you how he voted.

It's a good thing, because if he told me he voted for Bush I'd kick his ass.

[grasswire]

101. think back to the American Revolution

The same kinds of emotional see-saw plagued our predecessors. Families were split. Friendships fractured. Heartbreak. Fear. Separation. Loss.

And yet we had to become enemies to preserve liberty. To birth democracy and the rights of citizens we people had to choose sides even when choosing meant anger and tears. We had to fight our own kin and neighbors.

I fear it's the same now.

I will choose the side of liberty, equality, and the right of the people to self-determination. No matter the cost.

[Corgigal]

102. They are killing our kids now

These kids are from the middle class and lower parts of our society.
Some wanted to go to college and others wanted to make the military a career. Both thought they would only be asked to die for the sake of our country being safe. Facts show that is not the case.

I have two boys who will be 17 years old this year. I have told one person who had a Bush sign in her garage years ago that if my boys are stolen because you wanted a tax cut then I will come over and kick your ass. I'm not kidding either. This isn't about ideology anymore this is about blood.

edit: type

[Tyler Durden]

114. AMEN sister.

And my two Corgis agree with you.

[Darth_Kitten]

104. Republicans who will vote for Bush knowing what he's done....

get what they vote for. :(

They have to know what this guy is all about, the WHOLE world knows!! but no, they support him.

:(

[mitchum]

106. Neither di I,,,and I don't have any

There is a war going on for the future of this country, why should I give them any quarter?

[Sterling]

117. I keep mine because I can drive them crazy

Making them engage in rational thought from time to time. Who knows maybe some day things will get so bad I am trading bullets with those kinds of people but I still try to engage them and not dehumanize them (although lately they make it really tough).

[sangh0]

124. I can't say that I blame you

I'm not proud of that, but there it is. In fact, I'm not even sure I want Independent freinds, either.

But they are my friends, and I'm not going to abandon them when they need me the most.

[timtom]

125. I am usually a very understanding person.

But, in this case, I feel your frustration, your outrage, your anger. When I say I feel it, I mean that I, too, feel it. My understanding and patience has come to an end. I'm with you, Tyler Durden.

And I haven't read any of the responses to your post yet.

[Carolina]

126. couldn't agree more

I HAD one friend from whom I have slowly and now irrevocably drifted. Her republicanism, absolute devotion to *, is a big part of it because there's no getting around day-to-day issues without noting the impact of his and the GOP's politics and policy.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when she called recently to say that she was thinking of getting a Hummer. She's on the road a lot with her job and thought it would be safe. When I told her about the ridiculously low gas mileage, her reply was: so what, my clients pay for it!

Nary a thought about the environment, about lives lost in a war for oil or even about the callousness of her statement. I said nothing since our past talks about politics had always devolved badly. But I made a mental note: that was it, any relationship we had was over.