Imagine: the Plame Indictments

[H2O Man]

"Never in the history of our democracy has there been established such an influential and pervasive center of power with the ability to circumvent long-standing and accepted reporting structures and to skew decision-making practices. It has been described to me chillingly by a former senior government official as a coup d'etat within the State." Joe Wilson describing "Vice President Cheney's parallel national security office;" page 434 of "The Politics of Truth."

DUers familiar with the GD Plame Threads are interested in the recently reported developments in the "Israeli spy scandal." Before the end of the republican national convention, information that clearly connects this scandal with the White House outting of CIA operative Valerie Plame may shock the nation. But it comes as no surprise to DUers.

Last week's news indicated that a White House official named John Hannah was turning state's evidence in the grand jury investigation of the leaking of Plame's identity. Hannah has reportedly implicated Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the top assistant to VP Dick Cheney.

The Plame investigation appears to be the thread that has unraveled the criminal fabric of the Bush administration. The tattered patch of the newest scandal merely shows the extent of their criminal behaviors. Even some on the "mainstream" news shows, such as right-wing commentator Patrick Buchanan, have expressed shock at the extent that this will damage the administration.

This paper will attempt to identify some of the key players that we should see being arrested, tried, and convicted of the most serious of crimes against our nation, and to clarify the new scandal as more of an American constitutional crisis than an Israeli spy scandal.


"John Hannah and David Wurmser, mid-level political appointees in the vice president's office, have both been suggested as sources of the leaks. I don't know either, though at the time, Wurmser, a prominent neoconservative, was working as a special assistant to John Bolton at the State Departmenty." -- Wilson, page 445.

As the upcoming Plame indictments lead to criminal trials for the likes of Scooter Libby, the American public will become very familiar with John Hannah. Some media reports have noted that Mr. Hannah is "singing like a canary."

And as this "spy scandal" mutates into a neocon espionage crisis, the public will come to know much more about John Bolton, the under secretary that Wilson calls "the neoconservative mole" who slipped the Niger yellow cake lies into the State department's 12-19-02 "fact sheet" on Iraq. (Wilson, page 302)

But who is David Wurmser? He's VP Cheney's ranking Middle East advisor, known for his close ties to the Israeli extreme right, and to pro-Likud "think tanks" and "activist groups." DUers may see Wurmser playing a central role in the latest scandal.

He is married to Megrau Wurmser, the deputy director of the Middle East studies for the right-wing Hudson Institute. She founded the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri) which tends to put an anti-Arab slant on the news the American public gets.

Together, this couple has been dedicated to discouraging peace initiatives in the Middle East for many years. In 1996, for example, they were among the authors of a report to the Likud party, which urged them to break off peace talks. This report ("A Clean Break: A New Strategy ...") advised then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "to work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back" identified regional threats. Co-authors included Richard Perle and Douglas Feith.

In 2000, David Wurmster co-authored a controversial strategy paper called "Ending Syria's Occupation of Lebannon: The US Role?" This paper was co-signed by Richard Perle, Eliot Abrams, and Douglas Feith, all names familiar to Plame Threads contributors. It called for the US to "force Syria from Lebannon and to disarm it" of WMDs. This made Wurmster a perfect choice for a "senior advisor" to John Bolton in the in-coming administration. Bolton was considered an alarmist by WMD intelligence investigators, though he was one of the leading neoconservative activists in the Bush/Cheney administration.


"The neoconservatives who have taken us down this path are actually very few in number. It is a small pack of zealots whose dedication has spanned decades, and that through years of selective recruitment has become a government cult with cells in most of the national security system. Among these cells are the secretive Office of Special Plans in the Department of Defense (reportedly now disbanded) and a similar operation in the State Department that is now managed in the office of Under Secretary for Disarmament John Bolton." -- Wilson, page 432.

There is no Israeli Spy. There is a small government cult that runs the Bush/Cheney administration, which is closely connected to an Israeli Intel front. This front appears to have been the source of the infamous Niger yellow cake forgeries. These are the "documents" that the Bush administration's British friends have refused to share information about with the rest of the International Atomic Energy Agency as required by international law. Now we know why.

In early 2002, VP Cheney requested the CIA investigate the possible Niger-Iraqi yellow cake deal. The agency sent Joseph Wilson. His investigation confirmed two others: one by American Ambassador Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, and one by 4-star General Carleton Fulford. There was no truth to the forged "documents."

The rest is history. I urge DU readers to review two papers that have been re-posted on the Instant Karma: Plame thread on GD. Both the Waterman Paper and the Revolutionary President vs Constitutional Democracy Paper outline many important issues involved in this complex case.

The problems our country faces are not from any "Israeli spy." Our way of life isn't threatened by John Kerry's memory of his Vietnam experiences. And 1000 American soldiers haven't died because of anything John Edwards did as a trial lawyer.

It's time we help this nation understand the truth. Our constitutional democracy is threatened by some thugs in the Bush/Cheney Administration. We need to frog-march them out of Washington.

[wolfgirl]

1. kick n/t

:kick:

[REVOLT823]

2. H2OMan,

When you say "Before the end of the republican national convention, information that clearly connects this scandal with the White House outting of CIA operative Valerie Plame may shock the nation.", are you implying that a connection between the two will definitely come to light? I have followed your Plame threads and wish to commend you and everyone that has contributed to uncovering the details. I am simply asking this question to see if you know from another source that the connection has definitely been made by someone in the gov or press.

[H2O Man]

4. Last night on MSNBC

a retired CI agent named Johnson said that he had information that definitely connectedthe two. More on this can be found on Will Pitt's excellant "consolidated" spy scandal threads. Pat Buchanan was on the show (Countdown) after the guy Johnson; he said it is going to be huge.

[liveoaktx]

11. Clips from last night

Larry Johnson

Pat B

[Eloriel]

19. Yes, and I remember you assuring us that there would be

"indictments" by mid-August.

Pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

[H2O Man]

20. For the sake of accuracy....

I had said by mid-July at first. (smile)

[redstateblues]

57. July 14th

[H2O Man]

62. yep

at 2:45pm est

[David Dunham]

3. Bet on no indictment before the election. We need to beat Bush any way.

[H2O Man]

25. I think there is a very good chance

of the three indictments from the Plame grand jury being handed down before the election.

I'm encouraged to see the FBI might make arrest #1 in the "spy" scandal this week. They are going to turn the one guy. But the other arrests that result will most likely come later than November.

It really bothers me that the Senate Intel Comm. agreed to hold off on their investigation of the "spy" scandal until after the election. We need to call them on it.

[redstateblues]

58. Surely They Can Stall This Til After Nov-ala Watergate

[Domitan]

5. H2O, you are the DU MVP

I've been following some of your writings and research work. Your patience, meticulousness, and thoroughness are astounding. Even when it seemed like the Plame Indictment would go nowhere on the mainstream, you perservered without succumbing to discouragement. Bless you, man, for your incredible inclination in your work here.

Let many of us here at DU learn what it takes to run a marathon instead of kneejerking at every high and low that come our way.

[H2O Man]

6. Thank you!

I'm proud to play a role in a group of DUers who recognize the significance of the Plame case. And I have learned that the "good fight" is always a long struggle. This type of story may not get the media attention it deserves, (not yet, anyhow!) but it will be a huge part in our history books.

[coeur_de_lion]

7. ..

[TacticalPeek]

8. The scandal-plagued Bush administration.

:kick:

[H2O Man]

26. yep ....

that's what they are.

[burrowowl]

9. kick

[dweller]

10. great information

:kick:


looking forward to a day when this story is ripping up the news du jour, bigger than Watergate, and NeoCons are imprisoned, disgraced and run out of Washington on a rail.

Perhaps then afterward we'll have the delight of recalling 'favorite books' and what we have learned from them again...
:)
dp

[sattahipdeep]

12. Iran-contra

Sensitive CIA operations that were compromised by the leak included companies, government
officials, and individuals associated with the nuclear smuggling network of Pakistan's chief
nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. In addition, the identities of U.S. national and foreign
agents working within the headquarters of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna,
North Korea's nuclear laboratory in Yongbyon, Pakistan's Kahuta uranium enrichment plant,
banks and export companies in Dubai, Islamabad, Moscow, Cape Town, Tel Aviv,
Liechtenstein, Cyprus, and Kiev, and Kuala Lumpur, and government agencies in Libya,
Pakistan, Malaysia, and Iran were severely compromised. The CIA has reportedly given
Fitzgerald highly classified details on the damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network.


According to Department of Justice insiders, the length of Fitzgerald's 70 minute interview of
Bush was significant. Only one other prosecutor's interview of a sitting president lasted as
long, that of Iran-contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh's...

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/062504_grand_jury.shtml

[H2O Man]

13. very interesting

thanks for that information.

[EST]

14. Again, I stand in absolute awe and humbly thank you all.

Between the pressure you bring to bear with this cogent analisys, the actual investigation, the recent census report, the myriad other actions of various sizes ongoing, and the political campaigns going on, how comfortable do you suppose the republican conventioneers will feel next week?

[H2O Man]

16. In my opinion:

the neocons are desperate. I think that they view people like Kerry and Ted Kennedy as "enemies." And they obviously thought that Valerie Plame and other CI people were "enemies." Now they are going to see some of the FBI as "enemies." Their enemies list is getting bigger than Nixon's. And while they may act chipper during the convention, they will become even more desperate in weeks to come. And that should concern us all.

[EST]

22. It does. It does.

A review of all the actions, both large and small, taking place here and elsewhere seems to show that we are pretty much all taking this very seriously and most everyone is thrilled to be able to contribute. Things will look a lot different when we're done, if ever, but the willingness on everyone's part has me a lot more positive.

[H2O Man]

23. Yes.

My father used to tell me that democracy is a living thing, that every generation has to contribute in some way. One of his favorite lines was from President Kennedy: "In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it." I always remembered that one, and it's funny how it seems to define what our task is.

[kohodog]

15. Fantastic H20!

The watched pot is starting to boil! While some have been keeping watch, it seems that there are also some truly good folk in a position to expose what's happening and who are willing to speak. None of this would have come out without help from the inside.

Some frustration (and perhaps the demise of the Plame threads) come in part from our "outsider" status. I believe we came up with many correct answers, but no actual proof. So I am thankful that there are good people (heroes) on the inside who are willing to speak out.

This is leading to a precarious situation with regard to our constitutional Democracy and our work is probably just beginning.

[H2O Man]

17. thanks, kohodog!

I don't get frustrated .... simply because our job is not to come up with the actual proof needed in the court. I trust Fitzgerald. I also recognize the extreme difficulty of making the case in court.

Our job is merely to offer proof in the court of public opinion. And we have done that! I think we've not only shown enough evidence to satisfy people on DU .... but that our information can help convince many other people. And that is what we should concentrate on.

I always like what you have to say, especially "our work is probably just beginning." I agree!

[kohodog]

18. A watched pot...

Some things need to be seared and others need time to slowly come to a boil (I love to cook), and in this case patience will lead to a bigger reward. I think things are slowly coming unglued for bush and his handlers. The slow and steady leak of their misdeeds will ultimately culminate in their demise. And when their agenda (and it is larger than the current pResident) is finally taken down there may be years of rebuilding.

[ramblin_dave]

21. Josh Marshall et al: Iran-Contra II?

Iran-Contra II?
Fresh scrutiny on a rogue Pentagon operation.

By Joshua Micah Marshall, Laura Rozen, and Paul Glastris

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.marshall.html

Over the last year, the Senate Intelligence Committee has conducted limited inquiry into the meetings, including interviews with Feith and Ledeen. But under terms of a compromise agreed to by both parties, a full investigation into the matter was put off until after the November election.

With the FBI adding potential espionage charges to the mix the long-simmering questions about the activities of Feith's operation now seem certain to come under renewed scrutiny.

[H2O Man]

24. Very good article.

It makes me sick that any senator -- republican or democrat -- would agree to postpone an investigation into a crime (which will soon be seen as a series of crimes) that puts our national security at risk, and which defines one of the biggest differences in foreign policy between Bush and Kerry. President Bush is continuing the Iran-Contra criminal behavior, and Kerry was the senator who helped combat that most corrupt chapter in our nation's history. We are obviously dealing with some unfinished business from the Vietnam/Watergate era, but there is more ongoing business from Iran-Contra.

[antiboygenius]

31. Antonio Martino

In their article, Josh Marshall, et al, note that Larry Franklin, the Pentagon mole, met with Antonio Martino in Rome, the Italian Minister of Defense. SISMI, the Italian intelligence service, reports to him. Also present at the meeting was Nicoli Pollari, the head of SISMI. SISMI is apparently the source for the Niger Uranium forged docs. As Marshall's article mentions, neoconservative AEI fellow Michael Ledeen organized this meeting.

Given this context, it is perhaps not insignificant that Antonio Martino's name also shows up on the advisory board of the AEI's New Atlantic Initiative, along with a who's who of neocons & hawks.

Here's the link: http://www.aei.org/research/nai/about/projectID.11/default.asp

Antiboygenius

[TacticalPeek]

32. Welcome to DU, antiboygenius!

:toast:


What a wicked web they weave!

[ramblin_dave]

27. Juan Cole: Fomenting a War on Iran

Juan Cole (excerpts):

Here is my take on the Lawrence Franklin espionage scandal in the Pentagon.

It is an echo of the one-two punch secretly planned by the pro-Likud faction in the Department of Defense. First, Iraq would be taken out by the United States, and then Iran. David Wurmser, a key member of the group, also wanted Syria included. These pro-Likud intellectuals concluded that 9/11 would give them carte blanche to use the Pentagon as Israel's Gurkha regiment, fighting elective wars on behalf of Tel Aviv (not wars that really needed to be fought, but wars that the Likud coalition thought it would be nice to see fought so as to increase Israel's ability to annex land and act aggressively, especially if someone else's boys did the dying).

The rightwing government of corrupt billionnaire Silvio Berlusconi, including Martino, was a big supporter of an Iraq war. Moreover, we know that the forged documents falsely purporting to show Iraqi uranium purchases from Niger originated with a former SISMI agent.

So Franklin, Ledeen, and Rhode, all of them pro-Likud operatives, just happen to be meeting with SISMI (the proto-fascist purveyor of the false Niger uranium story about Iraq and the alleged Iran-Iraq plot against the rest of the world) and corrupt Iranian businessman and would-be revolutionary, Ghorbanifar, in Europe. The most reasonable conclusion is that they were conspiring together about the Next Campaign after Iraq, which they had already begun setting in train, which is to get Iran.

Franklin's movements reveal the contours of a rightwing conspiracy of warmongering and aggression, an orgy of destruction, for the benefit of the Likud Party, of Silvio Berlusconi's business in the Middle East, and of the Neoconservative Right in the United States. It isn't about spying. It is about conspiring to conscript the US government on behalf of a foreign power or powers.

http://www.juancole.com/2004_08_01_juancole_archive.html#109376785516786360

[H2O Man]

28. very interesting.

I've been saying a few things on DU since around April, besides discussing the Plame case. First, that there has been a plan on the table for a strike on Iran's weapons facilities. This discussion has included several options involving the USA, Israel, or other "entities" that we create. Second, the Middle East war(s) is/are political/cultural/and economic .... but that religious passions are also very much at play. (Obviously, many others are as aware of this as I am .... I'm not pretending these are original thoughts.)

When we look at what is going on with this part of the case, it's clear that the potential for these warts to spin way out of control, and include the use of WMDs is very real. More likely would be an spreading of the vicious war atmosphere that the neocons have labeled "mission accomplished" in Iraq. This could spread to Syria and Iran before next summer. Or we can take a different path.

Last week, on a related thread, I said that if Bush remains in office for four more years, we will not recognize America. Someone I don't know told (Voltaire99) .... and who doesn't know me ...told me not to be melodramatic, and that I was trying to escape reality. Maybe. But if you are 17 to 26, and don't want to fight for Halliburton, Likud, or George W's interpretation of the book of revelations, you will face the draft. If you are the parent of that young man who gets drafted, and who kills and/or dies for Halliburtyon,Likud, or George, you won't recognize America. Your own house will seem different .... and you can't click your slippers and go back.

[Disturbed]

29. CIA/Pentagon/Military

When the Neo Fascists corupted these groups the rank and file were furious. Tenet chose to be a bootlicker and the rank and file knows that he betrayed them. The OSP subverted intell and never expected their subversion to backfire. It has. The rank and file of the CIA and FBI seem to still believe in a Representative Republic and are subtely fighting back behind the scene. The Neo Fascists and the Bush Crime Family may feel that wrath of a few people that are not willing to succumb to Corporate and Govt. Fascism and Impirialistic force of the Govt. Multi-Natls. and Big Oil.

[Me.]

34. I'm Holding My Breath

Crossing my fingers and still writing letters. But this strikes me as very good news.

I am reposting an article by Justin Raimondo that I had put on the original Plame threads. It didn't seem as relevant then as it does now. It's long but well worth the read and backs up what you have said on this thread.



October 3, 2003
L'AFFAIRE PLAME
It's about more than 'outing' a CIA officer. It's about treason….

<<snips>>> "Remember, the sole "evidence" supporting the Niger uranium angle had been a set of papers that turned out to be crude forgeries.

"These documents are so bad," a senior IAEA official told the New Yorker, "that I cannot imagine that they came from a serious intelligence agency.

The answer is because it throws the spotlight on an even bigger crime, the Niger-uranium forgeries – and links them to the office of the Vice President.

Libby's links to the pro-Israel, pro-war network in the U.S. government, and the OSP, point to him as the linchpin of a sophisticated con game, with the President being spoon-fed flat-out false information. The American government, and the American people, were neo-conned into war. And now there is hell to pay.

But Libby and his minions are just the front men for the main operation. After all, they didn't forge the Niger-uranium papers themselves, but somebody did.

Robert Dreyfuss, writing in The Nation, cites a highly placed former intelligence official who points the finger directly at Israel:

It was created in Sharon's office, not inside Israel's Mossad intelligence service, because the Mossad – which prides itself on extreme professionalism – had views closer to the CIA's, not the Pentagon's, on Iraq. This secretive unit, and not the Mossad, may well have been the source of the forged documents" <<<snips>>>

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j100303.html


Also, re: writing letters. I just rec'd a reply from Charlie Rangel's office regarding my Porter Goss letter. It said that as I live in the 8th district rather than his (the 15th), as a matter of Congressional courtesy they were going to send the letter to my rep. In retrospect I think as I had already written my rep from the 8th as well as my senators and was writing Rep. Rangel as a memeber of the Black Caucus, I should have stated that. And, it also might have helped if I had cc'd the bottom of my letter with my rep's name. My point might have been made clearer, rather than leaving them to think that I was confused as to who my rep is. I am going to write them back, but for those who are writing letters to Congress people other than their own reps, you may find this info useful.

[H2O Man]

35. Good idea

regarding letters to Rangel.

Either Tellurian and/or merh had made reference to that article and the Cheney/forged document links, too.

[PfcHammer]

30. Update on the Plame flowchart

I've added some of the findings from the last few days to what came out of the the old thread.

http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/Plame/PlameFlowchart.htm

It's very hard present so much criminal activity and still make the diagram readable.

[H2O Man]

33. Thanks.

We appreciate your help with this.

[H2O Man]

36. fascinating article by Justin Raimondo

called "Axis of Treason," in which he makes solid connections between the Niger forgeries, the Plame outting, the Chalabi scandals, and the Israeli "spy" scandal. While there are ideas expressed in it that I do not fully agree with, it is an extremely well-researched and well-written article. His major themes are so powerful that I think his evidence will eventually cause moderate republicans to turn against this administration.

In one of the more curious sections, he quotes from a four-part report by Fox News' Carl Cameron, that was first aired on 12-17-01. More importantly, he quotes from one of his own more recent articles: "The other day FBI agents paid a visit to the Pentagon, and subjected several top neocons to lie detector tests." It gets even better! See:

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3469

I found this at news at google @ Plame

[NewJeffCT]

37. thanks for all your fantastic work

I'm a pessimist by nature - it comes from growing up around frustrated Red Sox fans - and, I still think that anything that comes out of this could possibly be voided by the RW Supreme Court. But, at least we know the truth here. And, I've been wrong many times before.

Any suggestions for information/articles I could send to my local newspaper?

[Lerkfish]

38. just wanted to say "great job" to those involved, H20 and the rest...

we're honored to have you here.

I think we should ALSO be concerned, in light of this, of the desire of the neocons to consolidate intel agencies under one umbrella, under one czar. The potential for corruption becomes infinitely greater the fewer you have involved at higher levels. Additionally, it becomes more difficult to detect, and stop it.

[Me.]

39. He Is Indeed On The Case...

And we, more than most, can agree with him that "It's been a long time coming"

[H2O Man]

40. I think that

we certainly can "more than most" say this has been a long time in coming. I like that! His articles are fantastic. When he quotes a Fox News reporter to show the strength our our take on the case, it's impressive.

[H2O Man]

41. two interesting sites

that show the number of American patriots united against Bush were brought to my attention by Sister Arby:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/107030/index.php

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/107020/index.php

[Me.]

43. Has Anyone Seen This From Josh Marshall?

<<Snip>>> "A lot more should be coming out about that Report in the next couple weeks and on the Niger matter. Make a note of Bond's remarks for future reference.

I haven't yet been able to comment on the breaking news last night that the FBI is investigating whether an employee at the OSD, Larry Franklin, passed classified US government information to Israel. That is because my colleagues and I have a piece coming out on the subject which will, hopefully, be appearing later today in The Washington Monthly.

I'm told the evidence the FBI has on Franklin -- at least on the narrow facts of the case -- is quite strong and involves wire tap information, though why a career DIA analyst like Franklin would allow himself to get tripped up on a phone call mystifies me"<<snip>>>

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[coeur_de_lion]

47. The article in Washington Monthly that Marshall refers to above

Iran-Contra II?
Fresh scrutiny on a rogue Pentagon operation.
By Joshua Micah Marshall, Laura Rozen, and Paul Glastris

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.marshallrozen.html
<<snip>>
On Friday evening, CBS News reported that the FBI is investigating a suspected mole in the Department of Defense who allegedly passed to Israel, via a pro-Israeli lobbying organization, classified American intelligence about Iran. The focus of the investigation, according to U.S. government officials, is Larry Franklin, a veteran Defense Intelligence Agency Iran analyst now working in the office of the Pentagon's number three civilian official, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith.

The investigation of Franklin is now shining a bright light on a shadowy struggle within the Bush administration over the direction of U.S. policy toward Iran. In particular, the FBI is looking with renewed interest at an unauthorized back-channel between Iranian dissidents and advisers in Feith's office, which more senior administration officials first tried in vain to shut down and then later attempted to cover up.

Franklin, along with another colleague from Feith's office, a polyglot Middle East expert named Harold Rhode, were the two officials involved in the back-channel, which involved on-going meetings and contacts with Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar and other Iranian exiles, dissidents and government officials. Ghorbanifar is a storied figure who played a key role in embroiling the Reagan administration in the Iran-Contra affair. The meetings were both a conduit for intelligence about Iran and Iraq and part of a bitter administration power-struggle pitting officials at DoD who have been pushing for a hard-line policy of "regime change" in Iran, against other officials at the State Department and the CIA who have been counseling a more cautious approach.

Reports of two of these meetings first surfaced a year ago in Newsday, and have since been the subject of an ongoing investigation by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Whether or how the meetings are connected to the alleged espionage remains unknown. But the FBI is now closely scrutinizing them.
<<snip>>

[Me.]

48. Thanks...n/t

[Me.]

49. What Do You All Make Of This?

<<<Snip>>> "Whatever forces are behind the naming of Franklin, it must be assumed that their main aim is to break up neocon preparations for a surprise attack on Iran, which the neocons have been boasting about in the media with special emphasis for some weeks. Backing the Franklin probe may well be military factions who have no desire to be fed into the Iranian meatgrinder, and who not fancy neocon fascist dictatorship. The immediate goal would be to knock Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bolton, Rice, Abrams and their cheering section in the media and think-tanks onto the defensive. While the exposure of Franklin is a positive step, it is far from decisive, and the neocons are still in a position to unleash the dogs of war over the next days and weeks. We are therefore now most probably on the brink of war with Iran, and at the same time entering a period of steadily increasing danger of synthetic terrorism designed to steal or cancel the November elections, and thus freeze the current neocon clique in power for the foreseeable future. The calculation of the rogue network operating behind the scenes is evidently that terrorism taking place a few days before the elections will stampede the electorate to support Bush, while terrorism well in advance of the elections will give the public time to recover enough to advance recriminations and demands for accountability on the part of the administration. We are now entering the time frame when the terrorist controllers can expect the maximum impact of their handiwork, either in stampeding the electorate, or in calling off the elections completely." <<<snip>>>

http://www.rense.com/general56/ddie.htm

[H2O Man]

50. It's a tough question....

It's important to know how far your opponent will go to avoid defeat. And that's just the Bush administration. What might the Israeli government have planned? And how closely coordinated are their plans with our official government? And with our unofficial government?

I think that by April, serious plans to target Iranian weapons production centers were being considered. Some have compared it to Israel and Iraq in the past .... yet this overlooks the obvious differences: Iran has more than one potential target, and they are spread out over a huge area.

A better example -- with obvious weaknesses, I know -- would be the Cuban missile crisis. Our military knew that they could take out 80% +/- of the targets. But that leaves a lot of weapons to respond.

This is a serious situation, all around. It's a shame that so many interests have WMDs. It makes it far more likely hat the shit will hit the fan someday, perhaps when and where we can least afford it.

[kohodog]

55. At this point nothing would surprise me.

But living been in CT and seeing dogs, National Guard and cops on every train, and heavy police presence in NY (both Uniform and Plainclothes/FBI), I can't help but wonder how far into a police state we have traveled. The terror alerts have changed some citizens willingness to forgo freespeech and civil rights. The fear campaign is what they will use to keep power. Thankfully a half million or so weren't stopped by these fears yesterday and marched against the regime.

My favorite T shirt: John Kerry: going backwards less quickly.

My Plea to DUer's and all patriots: Don't ever allow fera to guide your decisions.]

We must fight fear to win.

[coeur_de_lion]

46. thanks for posting those H2O n/t

[H2O Man]

53. you are welcome!

n/t

[kohodog]

54. H20, I was in the march as part of a (small) street theatre group

and I can say that from my limited vision (through a paper mache devil mask), it was huge, We waited about an hour and a half to enter at 19th Street and it took almost three hours to get to the garden (34th St). Wall to wall people and hot as hell (especially in costume). The march was serious and at the same time festive. A few counterprotesters joined in but were asked to leave within a block. We only made it back down to 28th Street where we regrouped and decided to head up to Central Park. On the Subway a number of people asked if we were going to the Park for a picnic. The authorities said earlier that the park was open to the public and anyone who wanted to could have a picnic there.

When we arrived we fornd a huge shade tree and sat down, soon to be joined by seven or eight plainclothes. But the atmosphere was festive, similar to some of the 60's get togethers. I've been to most of the protest marches since The big one in Feb. 2003, and this was the calmest one. Only a small contingent of riot cops at 35th street presumably to keep the march fron diverting directly to Central Park. The beat guys were mellow, perhaps partly because they will be picketing this week due to a lack of a contract. But both sides were congenial.

As we (my son and I) headed back to Grand Central we came across a heavier contingent of police near Broadway and Times Square where some were trying to find Repubs to harass. But all in al, it could have been worse.

I saw the Indy articles (and we are in the photo links), but I found this Daily News article surprisingly on target.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/227162p-195094c.html

[coeur_de_lion]

56. that was a good article in the Daily News

I didn't even think to look there. Takes me back. The Daily News was the paper everybody read on the train going to work because it folded like a magazine -- easier to hold. The NY Post was just gossip and silly stuff -- sensational.

I wish I could have been there. I haven't been back to NY since 9/11, and I really want to go.

I'm glad you went and did your part. It was truly awesome to see on the telly -- a sea of people. All peaceful. I don't like what happened at the bike rally but the rest of the day was fairly uneventful.

I was afraid of provocateurs. I guess my fears came true with the bike rally debacle, but I am so pleased that the police for the most part left you guys alone. I'm so proud of NYC.

Last fall there was a huge labor rally in Miami that didn't go nearly as well. People who were sitting there praying in the lotus position were attacked, beaten and arrested. Lawyers who were there to observe the interaction between the protesters and the authorities were beaten and arrested. It was awful.

Thanks for your first hand account, Kohodog! I'm proud of you for going!!

[TheCentepedeShoes]

42. Very interesting article

Thank you for uncovering this. A question - could Sibel Edmonds figure into this in any way? She translated Farsi for the FBI, right?

[H2O Man]

44. Interesting question.

Considering the alliance that Wurmser et al have promoted in the Middle East, it raises some interesting questions. In time, we may learn what it is she was saying that upset certain powers in this country.

[skip fox]

45. kick . . .w/ my 2 cents

Reports originally said (erroneously, as it turned out) that Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of the Vice-President's Office. Who would Novak have called first in those days following Wilson's July 6, 2003 Op-Ed in _The NY Times_? The Office of the Vice-President, naturally.

Immediately after his July 6 op-ed in the _New York Times_, Joseph C. Wilson was thought to have been sent to Niger in February of 2002 at the behest of the Vice President (later vigorously denied by Dick Cheney, September 14 th on Meet the Press, see link #1, below). (This misunderstanding may have arisen from a clumsy reading of Wilson's Op-Ed, in which he wrote that he "was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report." and "The vice president's office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer." See quotations in next paragraph that indicate mistaken in early July that Wilson was sent directly at behest of Cheney.) Robert Novak, _Chicago Sun Times_ columnist and televison commentator, by his own admission "was curious why a high-ranking official in President Bill Clinton's National Security Council was given this assignment" (link #5). Those are the facts. From those facts, can we deduce who Novak would have called first? The Vice-President's office, of course.

Some proof of misconception in second week of July 2003 that VP sent Wilson: Ray McGovern reflects this misconception in a July 14 open memorandum to Bush: "There is just too much evidence that Ambassador Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of Vice President Cheney's office, and that Wilson's findings were duly reported not only to that office but to others as well." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4107.htm . As does Will Pitt when he writes on July 11: "Wilson was dispatched in February of 2002 at the behest of Dick Cheney to investigate the veracity of the Niger evidence." http://www.agitprop.org.au/nowar/20030711_pitt_bush_you_are_a_liar.htm . Ian Macpherson writes, similarly, "Now it appears that Wilson was sent to Niger at the behest of none other than Vice President Cheney's department" http://www.netnacs.com/downunder/archive/du-0026.htm . Steve Perry continues the error even at the end of the month: "It was Wilson who traveled to Africa in 2002 at Dick Cheney's behest" http://babelogue.citypages.com:8080/sperry/stories/storyReader$517 .

So . . . Novak would have called Cheney or, more likely, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Cheney's Chief-of-Staff (or, perhaps a staff member directly below Scooter). To find out "why a high-ranking official in President Bill Clinton's National Security Council was given this assignment," Novak would have gone to the presumptive "assigner."

How would the conversation have gone (using Scooter Libby as the contact)? They would talked about Wilson's editorial, why the State-of-the-Union Speech referred to Nigerian yellow-cake uranium and why Powell didn't mention it at the UN, and how Cheney had never sent Wilson on any mission. Then Scooter explains, telling Novak that Cheney, the previous winter (Feb. 2002) had asked the CIA to look into the reports of uranium sales to Iraq from Niger and that it was the CIA at the VP's behest who had sent Wilson. Then Scooter lets it drop, "Well, did you know Wilson's wife works for the Company? Let's see . . . yeah, right Valerie Plame. Word is that she was the one who had him sent to Niger." Novak's ears perk up (all he hears is "nepotism," missing the real insinuation: that Wilson put his wife up to having him sent because he had an anti-War agenda or because he was anti-administration and wanted to put the breaks on the early momentum toward the Iraqi war). Novak checks spelling ("P-L-A-M-E"), thanks Scooter, hangs up. Checks second source, etc.

It's important to realize the purpose was to discredit Wilson as a maverick-with-an-agenda, getting his wife to send him on a mission the results of which would undercut Bush's designs on Iraq.

Paul Krugman, as he so often does, gets to the marrow: "both the columnist Robert Novak and Time magazine say that administration officials told them that they believed that Mr. Wilson had been chosen through the influence of his wife, whom they identified as a C.I.A. operative."
( http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg47823.html ) The purpose, therefore, was NOT revenge, NOR punishment, but to undercut Wilson's credibility. (To be fair, Krugman later, inexplicability concludes: "So why would they do such a thing? Partly, perhaps, to punish Mr. Wilson, but also to send a message.") IN the July 22 Newsday item (see link in Timeline) Wilson also admits to befuddlement: "They were aware of who she was married to, which is not surprising," he said. "There are people elsewhere in government who are trying to make her look like she was the one who was cooking this up, for some reason," he said. "I can't figure out what it could be."

Given the circumstance of the following summer (2003) when everyone was questioning the existence of WMDs, considering that someone who had investigated one of the claims Bush made in his State-of-the-Union Speech just undercut him in a July 6 NY Times op-ed piece, Scooter's plant was artful and effective, despite Novak's dull-witted interpretation (nepotism). It was clever about crushing anyone (Libby is more circumspect and pragmatic than Rove). The purpose was not primarily to inflict revenge upon Wilson, nor was it necessarily a warning to others who might take similar public stands, but to undercut an opponent who had momentarily risen in their midst. Bloodlessly, swiftly.

I know that if the purpose of the leak was revenge or a warning to others, the political damage to the administration would be worse. Since no one is likely to go to jail since bar for conviction under the operant law is rather high, all we can hope for is political damage. But mistaking the motive may well lead us in the wrong direction and allow the entire story to gradually dissipate in the short-shelf life of public attention. As it is, the administration will have to account for a coordinated attempt (2 leakers) to discredit a man who has ably served five administrations and was even labeled "courageous" by George Walker Bush. Perhaps those charged will tell investigators who else was in on the meetings where the strategy to discredit Wilson was hatched. (It was certainly coordinated and continuous, as attested to by the July 17 and 22 similar stories in Time and Newsweek–see timeline, below) Perhaps not.




TIMELINE:


(More detailed and much fuller timelines, distracting for our purpose, can be found at: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/US/uranium030714_timeline.html and http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=niger_timeline )

ca. 2001

Wilson: "I was invited out to meet with a group of people at the CIA who were interested in this subject. None I knew more than casually. They asked me about my understanding of the uranium business and my familiarity with the people in the Niger government at the time. And they asked, 'what would you do?' We gamed it out--what I would be looking for. Nothing was concluded at that time. I told them if they wanted me to go to Niger I would clear my schedule. Then they got back to me and said, 'yes, we want you to go'" (qtd. in link #2).

2002

February: Joseph C. Wilson is sent to Niger to investigate rumors of sales of yellow-cake uranium to Iraq. His trip lasts eight days: "drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people: current government officials, former government officials, people associated with the country's uranium business. It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place" (from NY Times, 6 July 2003, qtd. in http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/cia-gate.htm ).

March 9: "CIA reportedly sends cable that does not name Wilson but says Nigerien officials denied the allegations," according to ABC News: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/US/uranium030714_timeline.html

2003

January 28: George W. Bush's State of the Union Address.

June 12: Walter Pincus reports in the _The Washington Post_ that an unnamed retired diplomat had given the CIA a negative report concerning uranium sales from Niger to Iraq. ( http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Bush-Iraqi-Uranium-Forged12jun03.htm )

July 6: Joseph Wilson publishes his Op-Ed in _The New York Times_ , criticizing the administration for allowing Bush to make the Niger-uranium claim in the State of the Union Address. (Link #4 for the Op-Ed.) Richard Leiby and Walter Pincus write an article discussing Wilson's work in Niger and quoting his unfavorable administration comments: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/135174809_intel06.html

July 13: Robert Novak publishes his column in _The Chicago Sun-Times_ in which Valerie Plame is identified as a CIA agent. Novak writes: "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me his wife suggested sending Wilson to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him" (qtd. in link #3).

July 17: Time magazine publishes the same basic story, also attributing it to "government officials."

July 22, Newsday also confirms "that Valerie Plame ... works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity." Link:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/iraq/ny-uscia0722,0,6160519.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

Sept. 14: Dick Cheney on Meet the Press denies knowing Wilson and seemingly goes out of his way to say "I don't know Mr. Wilson. I probably shouldn't judge him. I have no idea wh hired him and it never came..." Russert interposes: "The CIA did." And Cheney responds, "Who in the CIA, I don't know." (Link #3) (Why is Cheney going out of his way to volunteer this information? Wilson seems similarly perplexed; in an interview with Ann Goodman, also in link #3, after Goodman says "He (Cheney) also said that he didn't know who had sent you, raising questions about the whole legitimacy of your mission to Niger," Wilson says, "I heard that. I don't know what the Vice President was trying to get at in that. )

Oct. 1: Robert Novak publishes his column in _The Chicago Sun-Times_ recounting the entire story from his vantage. (Link #5)



* * * * * * Laws * * * * *

1917: Espionage Act (thrice amended since).

1982: The Intelligence Identities and Protection Act

Both are discussed by John Dean at http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html




* * * * * * Links * * * * *


Link #1: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/16/1555209
Link #2: http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823
Link #3: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/16/1555209
Link #4: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm
or http://truthout.org/docs_03/100203B.shtml
Link #5: http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak01.html



* * * * * Bibliographies * * * * *

http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/cia-gate.htm (a bibliog. of articles criticizing the admin.)

[H2O Man]

51. Thank you

for your thoughtful and well-researched contribution.

[Tight_rope]

52. Kick!

[mrdmk]

59. Just a thought on this

I am no hurry to see this investigation ending and have people indicted before November 7, 2004 more or less before February 2005. The simple reason is that Mr. Bush Jr. may pardon everybody like Mr. Bush Sr. did in January 1992. Very simple, the election may be close but Mr. Bush Jr. will lose. These Neocons need to go to jail for their actions and nothing less. No pardons, period.

[Me.]

60. I Do Agree That It's Time For Justice

in this country. The pugs have been getting away with far too much since Raygun. I have spent years wondering how long they will keep getting away with malfeasance, duplicity, treason and all manner of assorted criminal acts. However my priority, right here right now is getting their evil selves out of the government, no matter how it's done, because if we don't do that there will never be any justice, ever.

[loudsue]

61. Mrdmk, if you've been following the OTHER investigation threads

concerning the Black Box Voting shenanigans in California by the neocons, you would see that it is most likely that bush WILL be in the White House 4 more years !!!

And, while I hate to feel so pessimistic about all of this, if bush IS, as I predict, about to steal yet another election, and said election will certainly be gerrymandered to put in another republican-controlled house and senate, bush will have a free hand to shut down any and all investigations that might point any accusing fingers to anybody he so chooses.

If the Dept. of Justice and the right wing smear machine needs to, they will nullify any and all court orders or judgments so that any law and order patriots who try to get in their way will be impeached, Wellstoned, smeared, disbarred....whatever it takes.

I don't mean to distract this thread from the current investigation. However, for the past 3 years on DU, I have been SHOUTING, screaming, pleading, warning that the voting machine issue is THE ONLY REAL ISSUE out there at this time in American history. Our representative government, our law enforcement, our courts, our media.....EVERYTHING spins on THIS ONE ISSUE.

Once the neocons have the control they desire of the vote counting in this country, and they can elect everyone they desire from dog catcher to president. The very BASIS of the investigation threads hinges on the fact that so many of us "believe" our system of checks and balances, courts, democracy...WORKS! It DOESN'T WORK, it WON'T WORK, it CAN'T WORK if we aren't electing the people in office.

We DID NOT elect George Bush. In 2002 we DID NOT elect Jeb Bush. In California, we DID NOT elect Arnold Schwarzenegger, NOR did California vote for a RECALL of Gray Davis. All the research shows that votes were stolen, miscounted, gerrymandered, and totally suspicious. Now, in California, the gropernator has just frozen funds that were designed to audit the elections for this coming November. And the neocons have managed to get the voting machines by Diebold and others put back into service WITHOUT proper certification.

This is happening right under our noses across the nation. The VERY FEW (by comparison) REAL PATRIOTS who are trying to stop the upcoming election fiasco, are being beaten down by crooked judges, politicians, and corporations. The REAL PATRIOTS in this fight are underfunded, understaffed (compared to what they're up against), and under-supported. If the half-million marchers in New York right now would show up in California to FORCE the State to insure a fair election, California would CERTAINLY go for Kerry. As it stands, it is a certainty California will end up in the bush column.

That doesn't just mean the vote for President will be gerrymandered. It means State legislators, as well as the U.S. Congress and Senate candidates elections will be gerrymandered.

The vote counting corporations have allowed just enough Democrats to win to conceal the rampant fraud that has been perpetrated on this country over the past few years. The Black Box Voting Patriots who have fought this battle, have managed to nix these black boxes in a few states. But who needs to be reminded what a HUGE prize California is? It's MORE than pivotal.

Any investigations of Plame, the Israeli spy case, illegal proliferation of WMD's, well.....name any investigation: whether anything ever comes of any of it depends on one thing and one thing only.....WHO WINS IN NOVEMBER!! Not just the presidency, but judges, State and Federal Representatives and Senators. The CIA and FBI will be hog-tied at EVERY turn. Agents who pursue anything contrary to the wishes of the bush mafia will be FIRED.

If the voting machine issue isn't addressed with a HUGE HAMMER in the next few weeks, we can "investigate" until the cows come home, and it's not going to matter for one minute.

Am I being "melodramatic"?? Read the research!!! Go to www.blackboxvoting.org and check it out. Go to the BBV threads. Folks.....THAT is where the imminent danger is.

The clock is ticking...Democracy is hemorrhaging and many major arteries are cut. This is an emergency.

This is THE ONLY emergency.

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=850

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Me.]

63. To Re-quote Stalin

Cause it's certainly been done on DU before:

"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the vote."

[H2O Man]

64. I agree with everything you say, Sue

except that Bush will remain in office. I think that the republicans are hoping the election is close enough for them to steal again. I think that they are prepared to do whatever it takes to win the election. But I'm not concerned with them right now. I am concerned with the democrats.

I'm speaking off the cuff right now -- nothing prepared -- so if I sound disorganized, I am. But I've got a lot on my mind. One of the things that was pointed out earlier on this thread is that the climate of fear is being increased today. And that's so right. Last night, the fellow Rudy G --who I admired as a federal prosecutor -- played the fear card. I think he mentioned "terror" 45 times. It bothers me to see a man I have respected do what I believe is so unpatriotic. I think playing the fear card betrays the good in our potential to deal with the crises we face.

Our brain is the same structurally as our most primitive ancestors from thousands of generations ago. Hence, it is hard-wired to have a sense of free-floating anxiety, that in many ways helped us to survive. Yet we see politicians like Rudy exploiting that by trying to raise the level of national anxiety.

But to do this requires a double-edged sword. It creates another passion, one that is un-natural, one that does not help us survive. And that passion is hatred. And that hatred comes in many ugly (and always destructive) forms .... the "-isms": racism, sexism, nationalism .... these are not isolated. They are as connected to the loss of jobs in your hometown, the price of oil, the violence in Israel today, and a thousand other examples ..... as your hand is connected to your arm. They are the un-natural extension of hatred.

Hate is NOT natural. And like anything that is un-natural, meaning not inherent, it is something that must be constantly cultivated and nurtured in order to be brought into being ..... and so he who hates must show his hatred in his actions and behavoirs .... which seem so inappropriate to those who do not hate, but so useful to others who hate .... until those people, as a group, become hatred .... as if this ugly passion demands existence .... and as hatred, the group becomes hated. And look what that passion did to a once respectable man like Rudy G.

This atmosphere of anxiety, fear, hatred, sexism, racism, and religious intolerance is all based upon lies. Only a culture that has been fed a steady diet of hatred and lies can accept the outrageous and evil falsehoods that spewed forth from the republican convention last night. And which will continue for three more days and nights. And then for two more months.

The majority of Americans have been raised on lies. I say that as a man who loves this country. I say this even though I am fully aware that there are many, many great things about this nation. But we've been lied to since we were little children, and we're being lied to today. And our country is being lied to from the republican convention, ugly lies as we move closer to more violence and war in the Middle East in this never-ending war that Bush spoke of.

I support Kerry for president, but it is obvious that the national campaign is experiencing some degree of trouble in the past two weeks. The enemy is attacking with lies to bring about doubt, to nuture anxiety, fear and hatred. And Senator Kerry is in a Hamlet phase, as a friend reminded me this morning.

To be, or not to be? Isn't that the question Kerry must answer? Is it nobler in the mind to suffer slings and arrows? Or is it nobler to take up arms, and defend himself? Perhaps Hamlet's soliloquy represents Kerry's indecision, his confusion over the conflicting emotions of hatred and love, of lies versus truth. But we can no longer afford to sit as an concerned audience, and admire Kerry's contemplation of the wretchedness of life and a faith in human goodness. We do not have time to waste watching to see if he gets out of the trap the republicans have set for him.

We need to re-focus our efforts between now and November. When I watched the protest marches in NYC, I was so encouraged. No hatred. No fear. It was a beautiful display of exercising our constitutional rights. Our enemies may try to lie and describe these marches as a freak show, but they're not. It's what the constitution encourages. The freak show is the circus inside the MSG.

I wish that I were physically able to be in the city, marching. But I'm not. So I'll sit here, and send letters to newspapers and to elected officials. I think that the new information on the "spy scandal" provides us with a wonderful opportunity to participate in public education.... through letters and the other rights encouraged by that constitution. We need to combat lies with truth, fear with calm, confusion with logic.

Sorry about rambling on!

[Me.]

65. Wow H.!

Needed that. I absolutely mind "Their" presence and the spew of vitriol they've brought with them to my beloved city. Bandaids with purple hearts! What have "THEY" come to that they would find that amusing?

As for Guiliani, I always found it interesting that, even after the magnificent job he did on 9/11, and I will grant him that, that when given the opportunity the people of this city said they did not want to change the rules for him and give him a 3rd term.

As for fear, well they have brought it back to the city with their coming. One of my most vivid memories of the months following the tragedy was the constant drone of helicopters above. They would diminish for a while and then at 4 or 5 in the morning return in force. I'd wake up and turn on the television wondering if something else had happened. This week the helicopters came back. Not with the same intensity, but they have been here.

As for hope.... the last few months on the streets near where I live, really young people, high school & college kids, have been out on most days campaigning for Kerry, collecting money and getting people to sign up for the DNC. They bright, eager and filled with enthusiasm.

[Me.]

66. Also, The Hamlet Reference

is terrific and so apt. I am praying Kerry doesn't turn out to be Ashley Wilkes and lets this election be "Gone with the Wind"

[loudsue]

68. I agree with what you've said here H2O Man...

All of it. And as usual, your words form like music which, all of us are glad sing along with.

That said...I don't understand where the investigation activism can do more immediate good than Black Box Voting activism. We all agree that the hatred they are cultivating during the RNC is an abomination, just as it has been throughout the take-over by the neocons in office. And I agree there are still a few good men and women who are trying to fight this loss of our Democracy....people in positions of power, who are on our side, whether they support our party or the one across the aisle.

But once California's votes go to unaudited, unverifiable elections with Diebold at the helm....and this is an eminent, direct danger facing us in the next few weeks...along with a few other States that are undercutting the work of the BBV Patriots, the election goes, not only to bush, but to another stacked legislature nationally, and in many state legislatures as well. And governorships.

With Porter Goss as the new intelligence czar, any rogue investigators who will try to smear the pResident or his administration will be fired. They will have the power...the unlimited power. And if that happens, I see no alternative in this country but eventual revolution.

I feel like warding off an election disaster can help avoid that revolution. Maybe I'm dreaming, and maybe there is nothing we can do about it just a few weeks away from the election. That's why I've been screaming and posting about it for 3 years. A few have taken notice and joined the battle....way too few. Now, it's the eleventh hour.

If you've read the research, you would agree that the conspiracy and filth moving through the election system is as insidious as any investigation of Plame, Spies, or Halliburtons. This conspiracy to steal votes has been blatant in its complicity, while still trying, with the help of the major media play, to fly under the radar of the serious stories....like Laci Peterson(?) and terra, terra, terra, and hate.

What you said about hate being an unnatural and counter-evolutionary emotion is so true. But I worry that the upcoming elections will be the final straw to free that hate from the bowels of hell, and go on to permeate every area of our lives in the years to come.

I am afraid, H2O Man. I am really afraid.

:kick::kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

69. Yes, you are right.

The voting issues are of extreme importance. Many of the people I respect the most have told me that they believe the election will be stolen -- again -- although in a more sophisticated manner than in 2000 in Florida. I do not think it is unreasonable to be very concerned about this. I tend to concentrate on the Plame issue, and I should be more careful than to say that because I focus on it, everyone should ..... or at least that they should to the extent I do. As I've said before, we're like individual fingers .... plame, Goss, the spy business, voting, etc .... and the opposition attempts to isolate each finger, and can easily break it. But together we form a powerful fist. So we need to move beyond focusing exclusively on any one front, and be able to take action on every front. A united front.

The voting issues are complex. We all know that there is the potential for manipulation of computerized voting, to a far greater extent than any other type. The part that concerns me is that these will be legal issues decided in court. And we all know that this Supreme Court showed a willingness to disenfranchise not only the tens of thousands of black democrats in Florida, but 50 million people across the country.

I do not know the outcome. But I do know the answer....and the answer is that we need to exercise the political "muscles" that are prescribed by the constitution for dealing with oppressive governments and enemies of democracy.

[loudsue]

72. Confirmed.

"But I do know the answer....and the answer is that we need to exercise the political "muscles" that are prescribed by the constitution for dealing with oppressive governments and enemies of democracy."

O8)I'm with you. O8)

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Me.]

78. Don't Despair LoudSue

People are waking up and I believe the days of the long slide to somnambulism are over. And it won't end with this election, no matter who gets in. There's gonna come a day when that fist will close and a big kapow will be delivered. The only question is, is going to come easy or will it have to be hard. Right now it looks like the second option is winning out, but change is coming and we can't stop it. The sign and portents are all there.

[coeur_de_lion]

73. Great post, H2O, and you are so right

I'm frustrated right now with John Kerry because he is not fighting hard enough against the * Lie Machine.

Love your reference to Hamlet, my favorite play. :loveya:

Hamlet's indecision led to his death. His uncle defeated him, even though in so doing he also died. Hamlet started out as a gentle person. He hemmed and hawed and couldn't figure out how to fight a king (his uncle) so evil that he would have murdered his own brother (Hamlet's father) to steal his wife and his crown. It was beyond his comprehension that someone could do this evil thing. He wasn't strong enough to fight back right away.

If our nominee Kerry continues to dither like this it may lead to his political death, and to our abysmal future as subjects of the boy-king, * the second.

While our candidate dithers we have to keep busy -- keep writing letters, keep talking to people, keep it up day after day. We have stagnated a little in this thread, *in my opinion*. We've become complacent, content to share news stories and ideas, when we should be fighting. We've been doing our share of dithering.

Let's get back to work! Let's write the media, write our legislators, and try to do at least a little, every day, to make a difference. If * ultimately defeats us, at least we will know we went down fighting.

[coeur_de_lion]

70. Thank you, loudsue, for that very intelligent and IMPORTANT

post. I've known about the BBV problem for months now, but I didn't know what I could do about it. Your article had some links to write my local and federal legislators. I'm amazed I've never seen any link like this before!!

THANK YOU. As soon as I finish reading the other posts from today I'll get right on it, and pass it along to all of my friends.

[loudsue]

71. Thank you BIG, Arbustochupa!!

Every single activist that will bother to take some time, can certainly make a difference!! Please find one or two others, like yourself, and "go forth and multiply"!!!

:loveya: You give me hope!! Thank you!

:kick::kick::kick:

[coeur_de_lion]

74. sent the article and a letter out just now, to my entire email list!

The article you posted is excellent, because it has a link for folks to click to find out what actions to take. The simpler the better.

There are loads of democrats on my list, and I think I snuck in a few republicans who will surely write me tomorrow and give me a hard time. :P

From when I worked on the Clark campaign, I have a database of emails that I can send the article to as well. It is small, but bigger than my personal email list (I think).

Really, sending that article out is very fast, and simple. Everybody can do it. Took me 15 minutes. Write a little cover letter, let the article do the rest of my talking, click click click, put my email address book in there, off it went.

Hope others on my email list do the same thing.

[H2O Man]

75. Then the question may be:

Do we continue with this specific thread, or do we start a new one, with a different heading? Imagine is a nice peaceful word. But it may need to be that we "advertise" an action-oriented thread differently.

[coeur_de_lion]

77. I'm with you.

[Me.]

79. Like What?

Come Together? Whichever, the same or new, I'm in.

[H2O Man]

80. I like Come Together!

Little "Trivial Pusuit": what campaign did Beatle John pen that tune for?

[coeur_de_lion]

81. (waiving hand in the air) I know ! I know ! Pick me! n/t

[Me.]

82. I Could Tell You

But if we were playing Jeopardy it wouldn't count as I did a google. So I'll leave it for someone who can answer in a strictly cerebrum type of way.

But here's a bit of sacrilegious trivia regarding the song,

"Case in point: At the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia this past August, as Dick Cheney stepped up to the podium to accept the party's nomination as vice presidential candidate, the band struck up a spirited version of Lennon's song "Come Together." This is the one on the Abbey Road album that begins "Here come ol' flattop" (Cheney of course is mostly bald), and continues, "One thing I can tell you is you got to be free"--a sixties sentiment that meant something quite different from tax cuts for the rich."

[AngryAmish]

67. I am so glad someone finally started a thread on the Plame Indictments

[liberalcanuck]

76. Kick!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[peacetalksforall]

83. Some questions - to H20 and all the good analysts and students

If the FBI is leading the investigation, how does Ashcroft figure in - wouldn't he be in on the neo-con side? If yes, wouldn't the neo-cons be pressuring him to put a 'lid on it'? If yes, I wouldn't say that Ashcroft is a non-entity, so how does Mueller maneuver this?

Who will come in first - Fitzgerald or the neo-con invasion of Iran? Would the Iran invasion be subject to the planned troop re-deployment? In other words, what are the hopes of others in what appears to be a race to put together the case and the need for the neo-cons (with Sharon) to get the war started.

Comment #1 - I've read quite a bit, but not all of today's links - the most important paragraph I've read about all of this is the one written by H20 above about the real impact of the leak.

Comment#2 - I'm torn about the divide within the military and intelligence. I chose my color to depict the military and intelligence and painted it with a very broad brush and have been convinced that the military and intel agencies have been marching with the corporations. It is a little difficult to learn that there are bad guys and good-bad guys. Are there really people in the FBI, CIA and military that I can cheer for? The quickest way to say this is that I'm blown away by the thought of it based on the degree of disdain I've felt for what I know of their dealings for four decades, especially the CIA. I'm struggling.

Part 2 of comment #2 - if the paragraph about the multi-nation impact of the leak struck me as powerfully as it did - do you have ideas on how this could get to more people? Is it necessary to do anything before it all breaks?

Part 3 of comment #2 - is there any reason to fear that the neo-cons could win this?

[H2O Man]

86. Several good questions here.

I'm not sure how well I can answer them, but I'll give it a shot. I want to talk first about some ideas about the military and intelligence agencies. We often think of intel agencies in terms of the 1960s. The CIA taking parts in the assassinations of world leaders. The Army Intel on the roof overlooking the Lorraine Motel in Memphis. The FBI under the control of the truly strange J Edgar Hoover.

I'm not totally objective, but I'll say that I am convinced that there are many, many more good and sincere individuals working within these agencies than bad. Some might have fairly liberal world views. Others may be more conservative. But they have shared values, and those values are in the best interests of the country.

Yet it only takes a few "bad apples," -- and not at the lower levels -- to give these agencies a bad reputation. The people at the top set the tone. The best example is Hoover: any attempts to provide honest leadership were marginalized under his rule.

We look at the terrible prison abuse scandal in Iraq. And we find it occures in Afghanistan. And Cuba. And it is part and parcel of the prison system in the United States. It's not a problem of a few bad apples at the bottom. It's the bad apples in the higher ranks. It's the bureaucratic system that marginalizes the efforts of the Frank Serpicos .... and there are far more good men and women than bad.

This is why many of us have such serious concerns about the Goss nomination. We do not want to see our intelligence agencies go back to the days of the 1960s. We need them to be progressive. It is a dangerous world. The quality of our national life is enhanced by our intelligence agencies. The heads of the departments set the tone. And that's why we need a president that respects the good works of the vast majority of the people working in these agencies.... not a president who wants to put in a political appointee to cover up the crimes of White House officials who betray those working in the intelligence agencies.

Can the neocons win? Possibly. But I think that many of the conservative people share the serious concerns of the liberals, because again, they have shared values.

Concerning a war with Iran: one thing is clear -- we cannot afford to allow the neocons to make any decisions for our nation. No sane person wants to see more and more nations acquiring WMDs. And no sane person wants to see a war in Iran.

[kohodog]

84. Krugman gets it

This from a DU thread:

"The left (in America today) is the position formerly known as the center."

Krugman thought about what could stop the radical right. "We need an enormous unearthing of the scandals, a mega-Watergate, otherwise this won't be the country we grew up in."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=698960&mesg_id=698960

I agree that there is much more to solving the Constitutional crisis that electing Kerry. We need to expose and take down the neocons and creeps like Hastert and Delay.

[TacticalPeek]

85. Miami Herald editorial weighs in

Noting that August marked the 30th anniversary of the resignation of President Nixon for his attempts to cover up the Watergate break-in, Wilson said, 'Here you have a White House that is clearly obstructing justice, only this time it isn't a `third-rate burglary'; it is a member of the clandestine service being exposed.''

Throughout his 45-minute presentation and our 90-minute conversation afterward, Wilson -- whose resumé includes defying Saddam Hussein as acting ambassador of the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad as the first Gulf War approached -- never spoke above the modulated cadence of the career diplomat.

I had expected more-animated passion from a man whose wife had been ratted out by still-unidentified top officials of her own government -- a move that carries the unmistakeable stench of a warning to anyone else who would dare counter official misinformation with truth. I gradually understood, though, that for someone steeped in the subtleties of diplomacy, speaking plainly is passion.

...

Maybe no one will ever be prosecuted for the leak. Still, it would be comforting to know that Bush won't tolerate the presence of national-security risks within his administration. That is, unless his directive that staff cooperate with investigators wasn't really a directive -- which would make it, then, a cover-up.

-----------------


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/9549424.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x71026



Major daily mentions the magic word: COVER-UP!


Ho ho ho. Santa's on his way. :)

[stickdog]

87. kick

[H2O Man]

88. Great News! / Great Article!

Justin Ramondo's new article is fantastic. He notes that Larry "Franklin, having turned state's evidence weeks ago," in the spy case, has helped federal investigators put huge pieces together in the "spy"/Plame case(s). See:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3479


Article found at news at google (Plame).

[Me.]

89. Fabulous!

"the damage done to our national security are being blown out of the water as the scandal expands at a seemingly exponential rate. "

So...

How do you think that this is playing out between the Veep's office and Wolfowitz/Perle/Feith? Is Scooter a likudnik or a repturite?

Can Blunt and Hoyer stop the investigation? Can the likudniks, or is it too far gone since Franklin has done his singing?

Is this why we are seeing so may Pro-Israeli commercials this past week?

[coeur_de_lion]

90. Hey, Justin Raimondo is my new favorite columnist, Steinback too

And I actually wrote a letter to the guy from the Miami Herald thanking him for his article and asking him to write more.

The more people pay attention to this the better! I don't even care WHO pays attention, they can be Republicans for all I care. If they are speaking out against what * is trying to pull they are my friend.

Pat Buchanan, according to Raimondo, has written a new book, a follow up to his first, that points out the wrongs of the neocon agenda.

H2O has been talking about Buchanan for a long time now. And he is a Republican. So, he isn't agreeing with every point the democrats make on TV, but he is on our side, and he is pretty damn sharp. People *are* waking up some. It may not be in time to stop the * War Machine, but it's a start.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, H2O. We all must be grateful to you for the thought you put into your answers and your theories, and you've seldom been wrong. You are putting your heart and soul into this issue, and I thank you for that. We all should.

[H2O Man]

91. Come Together: Plame

is now available on DU at GD.