Banned from FreeRepublic because SOMEONE DIED???

[IdaBriggs]

I have hesitated to post this because I don't want to irritate the powers that be over at freerepublic, but I must confess I am starting to feel frustrated.

Many of you may be aware I ventured into the waters of the freerepublic folks in an attempt to "reach out" last Friday. I believe for the most part I got a lot of good responses from both sides; I know I learned some things I didn't know, and was reinforced in my belief that both sides have quite a bit in common. For example, both are convinced the media is out to get them, both think the other side is scary, both have the occasional loony tune, and both have people who make some kind of sense.

In a very short time, my post had generated 110 responses, at which point the moderator pulled the thread. Later, it was "unpulled" and I began doing some private replies, but I had some family obligations having to do with the recent death of a relative, so I posted another thread thanking everyone for the welcome and promising to get back to replying as soon as I was finished with the responsibilities that came from dealing with a death in the family.

Saturday (the day of the services for my great-aunt) was challenging, and when I got a chance to do a quick check that evening, there were 250 replies to my original post. I was exhausted and drained from the emotion of the day, so I decided to hold off replying until Sunday morning -- at which point I discovered my posting privileges had been revoked because I hadn't been replying. The exact message was:

"If you'd reply, we'd leave your account. Too bad, you had potential."

Only I can't reply! Urgh!

So I sent off an e-mail to the webmaster, but heaven knows webmasters never have anything to do all day (sarcasm!), so I wasn't really surprised when I hadn't heard back yesterday. This morning I sent off another note, and I am hoping to be reinstated, but honestly, I'm not sure if I'm the type of person they want on their board as I apparently definitely provoke controversy, and at a certain level hanging out with "like minded people" can be very comforting. Perhaps that is what both sides are all about -- being "comfortable"?

I really hope they understand I am not trying to disrupt their board; I was doing my best to be respectful and appropriate. Like it or not, I am an Independent, and I refuse to believe 40% of the population -- label them how you will, conservative or liberal -- are "completely unreasonable!" This is NOT Palestine, and we are NOT in the middle of a blood feud; the answers we arrive at may be different, but there are smart people on both sides of the fence whose brain power we need to solve all of the problems we are facing. And in the meantime, how can either side learn about the other if all communication attempts are automatically deleted?

As a side note, Aunt Dolly was 84 years old. She was suffering from Alzheimers, but it was the cancer no one knew she had that killed her so unexpectedly. She was an extremely sweet woman; she also holds the distinction of being the first woman draftperson hired by Ford Motor Company. She outlived her husband and children, but fortunately didn't remember this anymore. My parents have been her guardians for the last five years. She was dearly loved by all of us.

Best, Ida

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Having potential at Free Republic

means they expect you to end up voting for Bush- if not swallowing the entire glass of pro-life, tax-free, trickle down economics Kool Aid.
I wouldn't worry about it- and condolences on your loss.

[MichiganVote]

2. Condolances on the loss of Aunt Dolly. Too bad FR couldn't offer the same

[fudge stripe cookays]

3. "Smart" people on both sides of the fence?

Sorry. I find a huge difference between "smart" and "deviously greedy," or even downright EVIL.

I don't understand why it's so important to you to be accepted there. I am automatically suspicious of anyone labeling themselves "independent."

To you, independent is your way of saying that you support the candidate instead of the issues at stake.

To some of us, independent makes it appear that you don't care enough about any one thing to TAKE a stand on it.

To a yellow dawg Democrat like me, hopping between parties is anathema. You'll get no sympathy in your quest from me. Only for the loss of Aunt Dolly.

[last1standing]

10. That's pretty unfair.

"To you, independent is your way of saying that you support the candidate instead of the issues at stake."

I consider myself an independent who supports issues, not candidates or parties. Right now I'm supporting Democrats because it's the best we have. On the other hand, if there was another viable candidate who was a true moderate, not the watered down repubs that the DLC has shoved down our throats, I'd vote for them instead.

"To some of us, independent makes it appear that you don't care enough about any one thing to TAKE a stand on it"

You seem to have a very narrow view of independents. Many of us take very strong stands on issues. It is precisely because we consider the issues more important than the candidate or the party that we remain independent.

"To a yellow dawg Democrat like me, hopping between parties is anathema."

To an independent like me, remaining with a party regardless of its platform is ridiculous. How can you fault freepers when you are advocating for their mindless loyalty? I support John Kerry as he is offering the best solutions out of the viable candidates, not because he is a Democrat. If, through some twist of fate, Lyndon LaRouche had received the Dem nomination would you vote for him versus Ralph Nader or another non fascist candidate?

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Cheswick2.0]

16. you might want to take notice of the name of this board

Good for you for supporting Kerry, though as a liberal I am barely hanging on by my nails in supporting him.
Aren't independents the people who gave us nut jobs like Perot, Ah-nold and Jesse Ventura?

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. What was the name of this board again?

Oh yeah....

If the Democratic party suddenly does a complete turnaround and drops the environment and preserving women's right to choose, I might think about dropping them.

But that doesn't look like it will be happening anytime soon. And the alternative is becoming what I despise most in the world-- a hateful, warmongering, sexually-repressed hypocrite.

I'm not as fond of Kerry as I was of Dean, but right now, he's the best we have. Nader and LaRouche are going to make such strong showings, as we all know. It's one thing to vote your conscience, but I also want to win. I'm doing both.

FSC

[last1standing]

21. To #16 and #19...

I think I have a grasp of the board's name, and I think the mods would approve of a donating member speaking out on blind loyalty regardless of issues.

On the other hand, I have been voting the straight Democratic ticket since I turned 18 in 1986 because they have been on the right side of the issues compared to the repubs every time. My point is that most independents are not voting for Ventura or Perot, and not all of us just vote for the guy with the best hair. Many of us are issues oriented voters who pay very close attention to who stands with us, then we stand with them.

Both of you say that you are not that keen on Kerry. Neither am I, but I also agree that he is the best we have to protect this country from going the way of the Roman Republic. I will fight hard to keep that from happening which is why I won't write in Dean's name on the ballot.

Mostly, I just wanted to voice my objections to stereotyping Independents. Let the freepers keep their stranglehold on profiling.

[kiahzero]

22. Um...

LaRouche will not make a strong showing, and he is a Democrat.

[fudge stripe cookays]

23. I stand corrected.

I never knew that he called himself one, but any sensible person knows that he has nothing in common with our party.

Can't do it anyway. I have no official "card."

[Caution]

4. 40% of the population are not completely unreasonable

but FreeRepublic doesn't represent the views of those 40% At best FR represents a fringe 10-15% and there is basically no tolerance of dissent outside of that narrow worldview.

IMHO DU represents about 30% of the population, with only about 10% of us on the extreme left, and 20% more towards left-center.

While there are a few right-center types at FR, in my experience reading their site, I find them to often be ridiculed and eventually tossed.

I wish you luck, however I don't hold out much hope of you being able to build any kind of bridge with the extreme right-wing as represented by FR.

On Edit: my condolensces for your loss.

[CatWoman]

5. Personally, I don't even know why you give those people

any credibility by trying to interact intelligently with them.

[yardwork]

6. I'm very sorry for your loss

As you can see by what happened to you at FR, there is a big difference between the two forums.

[tandot]

7. Why would you even try? Why not focus on the sane Republicans?

Those freepers make up a very small percentage of Republicans. Most of them are right-wing extremist, filled with hate, bigotry, and ignorance. They claim to be religious but most things they do and say are opposed to their faith. They are ill-educated on the issues and refuse to believe anything that does not come from Rush Limbaugh or Hannity, or any other right-wing source. Some of them actually think that America will not survive if our next President is a Democrat. I am pretty certain that quite a few of them have serious mental issues.

You wont accomplish anything by going over there. You wont find any moderate Republicans on freerepublic. They are right-wing fundamentalists and proud of it. They don't like the way our Democracy is working and would rather have a Theocracy.

I don't mind reaching out to Republicans, as long as they are educated on issues and respectful of dissenting views. Freepers aren't worth my energy and time.

on edit:
my condolences for your loss

[Cat Atomic]

8. If you want to reach out to someone, talk to moderates.

The people at Free Republic are ideological extremists. There's no arguing with people like that.

[Flubadubya]

9. Ida, I appreciate the efforts that you made...

and, yes, condolances for your beloved aunt. I lost one recently also.

I think you may have been on a bit of a "fool's mission" but it certainly doesn't hurt to reach out... no matter what. The fact of the matter is, people in this country ought to start trying to come together before it does get as bad as it is in the Middle East or just before the civl war in this country (which may be a closer analogy).

I really wish we all could find a common ground, but I still can't help but get incensed about people who have no apparent concern or compassion for their fellow man/woman, and who, rather, continue instead to try to find ways to beat their fellow down just so that they might enrich themselves. This kind of behavior does not bespeak an honorable person and certainly does not deserve admiration or respect.

This is why I find it so hard to reach out to people who I know would just as soon stab me in the back, take what little I have, and walk off smugly feeling that they had righteously won their ill gotten gains.

I'm not saying all at "Free Republic" are like this, but they gravitate there for some reason... a shared philosophy, I believe.

I really don't think there will be a coming together unless these people are willing to go at least halfway, and I don't see them doing that now. As a matter of fact, they seem to pride themselves in how much the think we are to blame for everything and how much they detest us. Not to say that attitude is not prevalent amongst us... but even you exemplify the fact that we, on this side, can come to terms and at least make an effort. I have yet to see one of these people come to DU with an olive branch. It is most unfortunate, but true.

Anyway, you are to be commended for your efforts, but I wouldn't let it get me down too much if you are not reinstated. You might actually could register under another name, and then explain who you were and why you had to stop responding for awhile. Do that and see how they react.

Good Luck IdaBriggs. :loveya:

[calimary]

26. Couldn't have stated it better myself.

You are to be commended for trying to reach out. But it doesn't surprise me that your efforts were thwarted. JEEZ, they sure didn't give you much wiggle room on time-allowed-for-posting, did they? I'd bet they're a lot more forgiving of one of their own extremist types.

My sympathies for your loss. Considering the compassion and gnetleness of your spirit, you did a LOT more good comforting your family than you could have - spending a similar amount of time with the freepers. It's THEIR loss. You'd have been a big asset to their potential for more openmindedness.

There are MANY other ways in which you can use your peace-making skills. To MUCH better effect and results.

[denverbill]

11. It was a nice thought.

Here's a tip about FR though. FR used to be thoroughly conservative. Differing views were actually tolerated. Then GWB got elected, and FR's owner became a diehard Bush fan.

Now to me, GWB is pretty darned right-wing. But to the old-time freepers, he was practically Karl Marx. He supported the No Child Left Behind Act, supported a tiny amount of research on stem cells, refused to disavow the 'Don't Ask, Don't tell' policy, supported amnesty for illegal aliens, etc. To 'true blue' conservatives, this was a travesty, and they sounded off on FreeRepublic about it. However, diehard Bush lover that he was, Jim Rob banned conservatives who bitched about Bush. He banished dozens of long-time members.

So not only are liberals anathema, actual conservatives are too. Like the neo-cons in Washington, the neo-cons are FR have an extremely limited tolerance for dissent. As with the Washingtonians, if you aren't 'with them' you are 'with the enemy'.

[Beam Me Up]

20. This piece of history helps me to understand . . .

Like Ida, I'd like to see the right and the left come together where ever that is possible. I realize there are some issues where that simply is NOT possible. However, as I see it, most of us, right and left, have one COMMON 'enemy': Globalism and Corporate capitalism and the elites who own it and set its agenda and time-line. This 'enemy' keeps us focusing on our DIFFERENCES so that we do not unite to change the systems of power. Wedge issues are accentuated and what may amount to differences of opinion are exacerbated. I don't believe there is any real hope for major change unless there is some place where the right and left can come together at least about the most important issues: WHO DECIDES? Right now our futures are not decided in Congress or the Oval Office. Although these play their roles, the REAL DECISIONS effecting our fate as Americans and as citizens of the Earth are made in Corporate Board Rooms. We're not going to be able to counter this effectively if the working class is split by social issues.

Anyway, what you posted helps me understand what FR actually is: A pit of mutually reinforcing ignorance that keeps the FOCUS away from CLASS ISSUES in any meaningful way.

[Ducks In A Row]

12. I guess freepers figure it they don't have real lives

the rest of us don't either.

there are tons of reasons not to post on a weekend, or for a couple of days in a row. Hell not posting for a week or a month doesn't mind shit.

freepers are assholes. They are a waste of anyone's time.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. IMO, Independents are people who

think they above the fray. In actuality they are people who don't know what they think except that they are above the fray.

I am uninterested in reaching out or finding common ground. I haven't forgotten your bullshit abortion thread. Go compromise with the freepers all you want. I can't imagine why the people here are supposed to care.

[UdoKier]

14. Freerepublic do NOT represent 40% of the population.

They represent the 15% or so that are extreme right-wing and obsessed with hatred for any of the government initiatives that probably helped many of their parents/grandparents move into the middle class.

Most of the 40% or so who always vote repuke and still believe in Bush are much more reasonable people who due to media, church or selfishness, refuse to see the light. They can be reached on some individual issues, but they seldom turn.

Freepers can't even be reached on most issues. They are in lockstep behing the idea that income taxes are sky-high, the poor are all lazy and bad, the only way to handle international disagreements is to kill people, "nigras" are bad, but they could be good, but would be better if they would stop being slaves to the democratic party and welfare state.

I've never been able to post more than a couple of messages at FR without being banned. Even being civil doesn't help. Even the time I simply posted to defend Janeane Garofalo, (I said I thought she was pretty, funny and smart, and had a right to speak her mind) the Zotted me right away.

Now, if I came on here and said I thought Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter was pretty and smart and had a right to speak her mind, I suppose I might get banned, but how can you compare the sensible things Janeane has said with the insanity spewed by Malkin and Coulter? My only gripe with Garofalo is that she speaks in activist-talk, even when she is on mainstream shows and needs to cater her rhetoric to that audience. Malkin and Coulter's rhetoric should be shocking to any sensibility.

"Too bad Al Qaeda didn't hit the NY times building." "We neeed to kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." What rapier wit!

"The internment camps in WWII were the right thing to do. It's time we do it again - this time with RAGHEADS!" Oh, Michelle, whoring for Scaife pay much better than whoring outside the navy base at Subic, huh?


Don't bother with FreakRepublic. If you want to rreach out to repukes, do it on the yahoo boards. I do it all the time. It's a good ,mix of right, left, and just plain insane people. (Just ignore the extreme racist/sexist posts. A lot of people just post that stuff so they can sit back and enjoy the indignant responses of outraged readers.)

[AmerDem]

15. quite frankly...

I could care less about your brush with freep world. Would expect anything else from a group on inbred fascist scum like that?

Consider it a blessing and ask yourself "What the fuck was I think spending time there"?

Sorry, no tear tissue from me.

[Cleita]

17. Excuse me if I'm not entirely sympathic with your quest.

First, my condolences, on the death in your family.

However, if you want to reach out to the opposing camp, it seems it would be better to do so on another board that is open to everyone like the Yahoo boards. People who post at Free Republic are like people who post here at DU. We want to be among our own. We don't appreciate it when disruptors come in with their right wing talking points. If we want that, we can go elsewhere. I respect the freeper's desire to be with their own. I think you should too.

[rucky]

18. 40%? more like 3% on the fringe

and 3% fringe represented by a number of folks at DU.

Unfortunately, our current administration represents the radical right-wing fringe. many of the people still supporting them have been conned.

The general population is good people, but usually too busy (or too smart) to care so much about politics.

It's great what you're doing, but more as an experiment than anything. If you want to be assured that man is basically good - which I believe - just go to the supermarket and strike up a conversation with anyone.

[Jokinomx]

24. Condolences to you and your Family.....

I would like to agree that the other side has intelligent people that support * and his ideas...but somewhere along the line ... a person has to realize that the USA citizens have been duped. I love your optimism though.... :-)

[IdaBriggs]

25. WHY You Should Care....From Ida

First of all, I'd like to thank each of you who sent kind words and condolences on our loss; I very much appreciate them.

I've decided to bundle my replies up to save the scroll time.

When I say 40%, I mean the "base" each party or candidate has to call on. I don't necessarily believe its "only greed" for the Republicans because only 1-2% of the entire population benefit from the financial stuff that has been done. I don't necessarily believe its stupidity, even though it sometimes feels that way. I don't even necessarily believe its ignorance, because the information is out there if you want to look. I believe its more about the things we value than about the things we don't.

We have a couple of serious issues dividing this country and from the responses I received on my post Friday, I believe they are mainly Abortion and Gay Sex. You can label it fear, stupidity, control, whatever you want -- but on November 3, 2004, one man is going to stand up for ALL of us as Americans, no matter who you vote for. With an angry and divided electorate (and yup, a lot of folks are ANGRY!), the bottom line is for four years, we will ALL have to hunker down and get through it.

Don't like it? Want to ignore it? Too bad. People who don't believe they are being heard or that what they want is important either become terrorists or radicals. Clinton won TWICE, but his Presidency was massively overshadowed by angry people who did their best to destroy him. If you don't think that hampered his performance, you weren't paying attention. Its possible the people who are insulating George from the unhappiness everywhere really think they are doing it to help him be a more effective leader based on the lessons from the Clinton years. (Its also possible they are just a bunch of idiot nut jobs, but I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument.)

I'm not much of a "Team Player." I'm much more in the Teresa category -- I'm going to tell you the truth, whether you like it or not. I will not back any party because of the party's core values; I'm only going to back the PEOPLE who actually support the values I espouse. That means a lot more work for me, because I actually have to find out who is telling the truth, and who is a mealy mouthed lying hypocrite. ("Compassionate conservative" my ASS! I also predicted we were going to war with Iraq IN NOVEMBER 2000 and I have that IN WRITING!) And part of the reason we are in this mess in the first place is because a whole bunch of Democratic Senators didn't do their duty -- and that includes Kerry -- and DEMAND the Florida thing be looked at. Like it or not, the Bush people simply have to accept the fact this is a tainted Presidency from the get go.

I'm a forgiving woman. I'd like to believe everyone learned their lesson, and this disastrous period in our history will be fixed. I get the Senate had a big talk and everyone thought four years wouldn't be that big of a deal in the grand scheme of our nation's history -- and it probably won't be. Except somebody went on vacation, ignored the desperate reports of our intelligence officials, and people who weren't being listened to about their sacred places flew planes into our buildings.

Listen to the people on the right about their concerns with Abortion and Gay Sex? Damn straight I will. I'm pro-choice, but I heard my baby's heart beat at seven weeks pregnant, and I know what that meant to me. I also have an idiot niece who got an abortion at sixteen, which I fully supported because of the drug problems she and the baby's father were undergoing. I get that its about defining our humanity when it comes to abortion, and I get that its about controlling my own body, and I GET that good people disagree.

Thirty years ago I used to argue with my parents about being friends with an inter-racial couple because my parents were horrified at the prospect. Today, I have a nephew who is "mixed" and the only comments I hear are envious ones about his fabulous skin tone. Thirty years ago "gay" wasn't something people talked about; today we are discussing the definitions of marriage on national television! Times change, but only if people sit down and talk about where we really want to go.

Its facts and opinions -- give and take -- interpretation and nuance. Its working with people who drive you nuts because you disagree with them, and protecting the rights of the minority from being trampled by the needs of the majority. Its about being AN AMERICAN first, and a member of some political party second.

Its about being a CITIZEN, and its WHY you should care. And its why, if the freepers will let me, I'll try to be a respectful member of their board.

Regards,
Ida M. Briggs

P.S. If they let me back on, I've already got the next topic I want to discuss mapped out -- "Abortion: Defining Our Humanity (A Cross Over Discussion)" -- with an explanation of the positions and reasons espoused by BOTH sides and commentary asked for on this board, and that one. If you think my last posting caused a storm, wait until you read THAT one! :)