Quetzalcoatl vs. 10 Commandments = no public $ for either?

[Hanuman]

http://thewalllasmemorias.bizland.com/pages/memorial.html

This website features the plans to build an AIDS memorial in Los Angeles, designed in the shape of the Aztec god, Quetzalcoatl. The park sounds like an OK idea to me. I have many friends struck down by AIDS, I love the Latino culture and we can all use new and improved park space.

Granted, the Aztec religion is almost extinct if not already so, but it IS still a religion. It was also a very violent religion which practiced human sacrifice, etc. To glorify this particular religion, might in fact, offend some people. Not me, per se, but someone.

I see differences of course between the Aztec religion and Christianity, and differences between putting the 10 Commandment monument in front of a courthouse versus a monument to AIDS victims in the shape of an Aztec god in a public park- but the issues of "establishment" cannot be overlooked.

For me, ban one, ban all. There can be no hedging, no splitting of hairs, no hypocrisy.

Personally, even as an agnostic, I don't have a dog in this overall race, the imagery means little to me. But I do have an interest in how the law is interpreted and administered.

What say you?

[Swede]

1. There is a thing called common sense

(although it ain't that common it seems). There is context and degree. That idiot in Alabama must be running for something.

[Hanuman]

6. Common sense tells me

that this memorial will piss off a lot of christians who don't want their tax money spent on "glorifying" an Aztec god.

[Brian Sweat]

20. It's called the Reasonable Person Standard

A reasonable person understands that a statue of Quetzalcoatl has nothing to do with religion, but that a tablet containing the ten commandments has everything to do with religion.

[knight_of_the_star]

2. It is not what the thing is, but the idea

Quetzalcoatl is pretty much a symbol of ancient Central America, and it is being placed as a memorial in a public park, not as something to be worshipped or as a mergin between church and state. The Ten Commandments in a courthouse is something completely different.

[GypsyBob1]

4. I aint so sure there is a big difference….

People have sued to have Christian symbols removed from city parks (there was a notable case here in Wisconsin).

As to your point of Quetzalcoatl being a cultural symbol as well as a religious one, well there’s plenty of folks who are saying that Judeo-Christian symbols and beliefs are likewise integrated into our culture.

It’s a can of worms, but I say the law needs to be applied even handedly…. Remove it from the park.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi GypsyBob1!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DarkPhenyx]

5. It's also just another species of Dragon.

Banning this based on it's assocaiation with the Aztec religion is as silly as banning pictures of fish.

[Hanuman]

8. That's very clever!

I wonder if it would be okay to put one of those fish shapes like we see on the backs of cars in a public park?

[DarkPhenyx]

10. That is actually a symbol with religious meaning.

Can even remember it from back in my church going days. I was thinking more along the lines of an actual photo of a fish.

Before ya'll start getting stupid and trying to parse the meaning of "religious symbolism" too finely rememebr that there are a lot images and ideas that have a background in ideology. All draconic forms, Stonehenge, etc. If we wish to pursue such assinine stupidity to it's illogical conclusion I'm fine with that. Let's think first though and realize just how big a can of worms we're opening up. Even the simple act of "spring cleaning" comes from an old pagan custom.

I'd actually be much happier if we stuck with the more overt symbols, and the ones that actually have some relevance to modern society.

[zoidberg]

16. The Ten Commandments is a symbol of Western culture

Why treat them differently?

[sandnsea]

21. No, they're laws

Dogma, doctrine, words people must live by. And in Alabama they're being endorsed specifically as the foundation of public law. Not just a symbol of cultural heritage at all. If these people cared about US heritage, they'd have put the Bill of Rights on that memorial. It's quite telling that they didn't.

[sangh0]

3. I say

that constantly genuflecting on social wedge issues that have already been decided is a common tactic the right uses to split the Dem vote.

[sujan]

7. yep no funding for it

[LeftCoast]

9. Well what about the native american holy symbol on NM license plates?

I'm sure you've all seen it. It's basically become the 'symbol' of New Mexico, but for many native americans the symbol is considered very important and to put on all the cars in NM is fairly insulting.

Just thought I'd add this to the mix. :)

[GregW]

11. Just as long as it doesn't look like San Jose's statue ...

Quetzacoatl = Giant Dog Turd

[Hanuman]

12. OMG! Isn't that violating some "ugliness ordinance?"

Blechh!

Actually, the Q monument looks very nice and tasteful.

[Blue_Chill]

17. HAHAHAHAHA!

Few posts make me laugh out loud, reading...

Quetzacoatl = Giant Dog Turd

...was one of them.

Why the hell did they make a statue that looks like that, brown? HOw about a nice green or blue? Would that be disrespectful to the Aztec religion? Anyone know?

[sandnsea]

14. I tend to agree, but there's a slight difference

The biggest problem I have with the Ten Commandments at the Courthouse is it is bluntly mixing religious dogma with the law of the land. That's a much bigger step than just having open hands, let's say, to symbolize we are all in a Creator's caring hands or something. I realize that might be objectionable to an atheist too, but at least it's not endorsing one religion over another.

And religious art has been a part of culture forever. The first pieces of art were fertility gods after all. I would hate to think we have to deny the natural inclincation of man to worship because people can't keep the dogma out of governmental institutions; which is not the same thing as having an Aztec statue, or Christian or Jewish memorial, in a park.

[Blue_Chill]

15. How about ban none of them and put this Quetzalcoatl thing up

I'd love to see it. It is part of mexican heritage and Los Angeles has many mexican residents.

Celebrate your differences, don't hide them!

[Hanuman]

19. I probably should have added that in my original post:

I personally have no objection to ANY religious imagery as long as it doesn't violate the establisment clause. But my definition of the clasue is different from some people's: I see it forbidding laws and doctrine- not imagery, and it opens the door to ALL imagery from ANY religion.

It may seem odd coming from an agnostic, but I actually enjoy seeing tasteful religious imagery in public- it reminds me that our world is diverse and that people have passion and a love of their heritage and culture.

[Blue_Chill]

22. I could not agree with you more

I wish more people thought that way.

[Sweetpea]

18. If I hadn't read your post I wouldn't have known who the hell

Quetzalcoatl is....damn ....now I have to protest....:)