I debunked an anti-Kerry email for my S-I-L. Make it better.

[Ohio Dem]

My sister-in-law got an anti-Kerry email, and asked if I would debunk it for her. I did. If you have anything that's better than what I said, please let me know. She hasn't hit the ol' "Reply All" button yet. I apologize in the sloppy look of it. You'll be able to tell the replies from the assertions, though.

At any rate, this is what I gave her:


>
> JOB APPLICATION
>
>
>
>
> NAME: John Kerry

So far, so good.
>
>
> RESIDENCE: 7 mansions, including Washington,
>
> DC, worth multimillions.

Actually it is 5. The Washington residence is jointly owned by Kerry and his wife. The others are the property of Theresa Kerry which predates their marriage and are, due to a prenuptial agreement, not jointly owned properties.



>
> EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: Law Enforcement. I voted to cut every law
>
> enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my career as
>
> a US Senator.

Um, no. Read this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/weapons.asp

I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant which I considered
> unsightly, in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the
>
> event of fire.

Really. I’d never heard that before. So what? How did Kerry “order” the city of Boston to do anything? Wow, what a leader.



> MILITARY: I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge
>
> from the military and service in Vietnam (as
>
> documented by the attending doctor).


And he won a silver star and a bronze star, while Bush was AWOL in Alabama. Also, read this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp


I then returned to the US, joined
Jane
> Fonda in protesting the war,

Not really, although they were both against the war. You do know that picture of them together is a fake, right? http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

Why to Republicans feel the need to lie?


and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming
> they
>
> committed atrocities and were baby killers.

Some did. Everybody knows that.


I threw
>
> my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest.
>
> Or did I?


They’re his medals. He can do what he wants with them. And, while it was in reality ribbons he threw, anyone will tell you it means the same thing. If you want to argue semantics, let’s analyze some of Bush’s remarks.


My book; Vietnam Veterans Against the
>
> War:

Yep, he can write.


The New Soldier shows how I truly feel about
>
> the military. I deplore the military!

Then why does it upset him when Bush sends them needlessly to their deaths?


>
> COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
>
> Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher
>
> education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor
>
> graduate with an M.B.A

It's not known what Kerry's exact GPA was, but many of the extracurricular activities he was involved in (like student government) would have required him to maintain at least a 3.0. Bush was the guy with the low C average.

Also, Kerry has a Law Degree from Boston College. http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/bio.html


>
> PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever
>
> since. I have no real world experience except that of
>
> a gigolo, by marrying rich women and running HJ
>
> Heinz vicariously through my wife Teresa.

First of all, Teresa doesn’t own Heinz or have any control over its actions. Please see http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp . Secondly, John Kerry has a little more experience than you suggest. Kerry has been a prosecutor, lieutenant governor, and finally, a senator. Never mind the time he spent as an actual soldier in Vietnam.



> ACCOMPLISHMENTS: As a US Senator I set the record for the most
>
> liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted Kennedy
>
> and Hillary Clinton.

Um, no. Not really, anyway. I’m assuming you’re referring to the piece from the National Journal that listed Kerry the most liberal senator in 2003. And they only looked at 16 or so votes. If you look at the entire span of Kerry’s 19 year career, he’s not the most liberal. At least, that’s what the National Journal says. That honor (yes, honor) would go to the late Senator Wellstone.

http://www.progressive.org/may04/conn0504.html

I have consistently failed to
>
> support our military and CIA by voting against
>
> budgets, thus gutting our country's ability to defend
>
> itself.

No, he didn’t. Please read this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/weapons.asp

Although I voted for the Iraq War, now I am
>
> against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it.

No, he doesn’t. What Kerry voted for was to give Bush the authority to go into Iraq if it was absolutely necessary. It wasn’t, but Bush went anyway. That’s beside the point. The vote wasn’t to go to war. It was to pressure Hussein. Even Bush says the vote wasn’t a vote for war. He said, “I have asked Congress to authorize the use of America's military, if it proves necessary, to enforce U.N. Security Council demands. Approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable. “ So to say that Kerry voted for war is wrong. Please read this: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

I voted
>
> for every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to
>
> help this country but I intend to raise taxes
>
> significantly if I am elected.

No, he doesn’t. He will only raise taxes on the top 1.5% wealthiest Americans and on companies that outsource our jobs. The middle class will receive a cut. Please read this: http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

My wealth so far exceeds
>
> that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will
>
> never catch up.

Bush would be a ditch digger if G.W. Bush wasn’t his father, so I don’t know what you mean. We all know Bush is an ineffective businessman, so saying that Kerry is richer seems like saying that Kerry is smarter. I agree.

I make no or little charitable
>
> contributions and have never agreed to pay any
>
> voluntary excess taxes in MA, despite family wealth in excess of $700
> million.

Prove it. I have no idea. I do know that Teresa gives very much to many causes. What’s the last charity Bush gave to? Voluntary taxes? Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!



I (we) own 28 manufacturing
>
> plants (Heinz) outside of the U.S. in places like Asia,
>
> Mexico and Europe. We can make more profit from
>
> the cheaper cost of labor in those Countries, although
>
> blame George Bush for sending all of the jobs out of
>
> Country.

Again: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp

Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources,
Ted
> Kennedy and I oppose windmills
>
> off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the
ocean
> as we cruise on our yachts.

He opposes windmills off the Cape because he says you wouldn't drill for oil in the grand canyon. There are plenty of spaces where it makes sense, but the theory is you don't have to ruin America's treasures.




> RECORDS AND REFERENCES: None.
>

Hardly. Here is a list of references: http://www.independentsforkerry.org/info/index.php?category_id=791

Note, that list is just a short example of people and organizations that endorse Mr. Kerry.


PERSONAL I ride a Serotta Bike.

Does he fall off of it as often as Bush falls off his?


My Gulfstream V Jet I call The Flying
> Squirrel.

Good for him. I wish I had one. Bush’s personal transportation before the 2000 election was provided by Enron.

I call my $850,000 42-foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht
>
> the "Scarmouche."

No, it’s not. It’s called the “Scaramouche.” Even when you get something right, you get it wrong.


>
> I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and feel it reflects
>
> our real culture.

“Fascinated?” Probably not, but he is quite open-minded. Guilty as charged.


I own several "Large" SUVs including one parked at my
> Nantucket summer mansion, though I am
>
> against large polluting inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for the
> energy problems.

Actually, his wife owns them. But, so what? Cheney met with Enron execs to make our energy policy, and that’s why he won’t release those records.



> PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.


Also consider that the Republicans can’t find anything wrong with Kerry, so they make shit up. By the way, you can find a better written version of this spam here: http://www.myjokemail.com/content/modules/xfsection/article.php?articleid=219

That’s right. Myjokemail.com. That about sums it up.

[sandnsea]

1. A couple things

He also ran a small business in Boston.

Bush uses the Clean and Green tax credit, pretending his million dollar, 10,000 square foot hobby ranch is a real farm. Teresa does not use this credit and, in fact, wrote to the county because her assessment was incorrect and paid more taxes than they asked.

The government is still analyzing possible sites for the wind farms off Cape Cod. There are many environmental considerations including the fisheries and birds. To my knowledge, Kerry is waiting for the EPA and Army Corps of Engineer reports on this windfarms.

Other than that...

:thumbsup:

[Ohio Dem]

3. Oh! Oh! That's good, and true, but do you have links?

Thanks for the info, but a link would be handy. Links are the only things some people (undecideds, for instance), believe.

[sandnsea]

6. Here ya go

Cookie store. Also the truth about the fire hydrant, they paid to have it moved, not removed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/politics/campaign/25PAM.html?ex=1091678400&en=33011e6678c7ae4b&ei=5070&conv

Farm tax
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04195/345641.stm

Wind Farm
http://www.capecodonline.com/special/windfarm/kerrywaiting29.htm

[Ohio Dem]

10. NICE!

Thank you!!!!!

:yourock:

[Ohio Dem]

2. Oh, come on, people. I know it's long, but you're gonna get this

in the email sooner or later. Might as well debunk it now, I think. I believe that I made a few good points, but I know that a more definative debunk is assured if only a few good DU'ers make an effort here. Help me out here.

[jdj]

4. I think W's wealth will exceed Kerry's when Poppy dies.

so never say never.

And I think Robert Kennedy covers the windmill thing in his book

And as far as worldly experience, W. has plenty of that being that his first business partner was named Salem bin Laden, little brother of Osama.

That's all I can think of this late, I copies this though, thanks. I never get these e-mails, but I wish I did so I could counter them.

[Ohio Dem]

8. I don't get them anymore, either, thanks to the "Reply All" button.

But my sister-in-law does, and so do a lot of people. Help make this debunkment (is that even a word?) the best it can be.

BTW, my sister-in-law won't be getting them for long, either. She didn't know about the "Reply All" option. Now she does, but she hasn't sent this one out yet. It might be her last chance to respond to bullshit like this. I want it to be perfect. That's where DU comes in. If I made any errors in my debunking, I want to know, preferably with a link. This one's gonna make the rounds, so it would be good to squash it quickly, IMO. Let's debunk this piece of shit.

[hang a left]

19. So funny I don't get them anymore either.

Love the reply all!! Last two I sent were both takebackthemedia.com videos. One was the Bush-Regan comparison "Mourning for America," in response to a lengthy how great Reagan was, a couple of days after his death. I was nice enough to wait until two weeks after he was buried to respond in order to be respectful. The other one which was sent a couple of days before was that email regarding what a compassionate man * was because of him hugging that girl who had lost a family member in the WTC attacks. It was accompanied by the famous picture we all puked over a couple of months back while shrub was on the campaign trail. I responded with the takebackthemedia.com "A Requiem" that details the Booker T. Elementary stunt with a comment about if he was so concerned about the deaths of people at the WTC he sure wasn't that concerned while he sat there for 20 minutes. I responded to both reply all at the same time. I don't receive anymore *emails and probably 3/4 of the Little League members hate my guts. Oh well.

on edit: should proofread more.

[democrat_patriot]

20. I never get them either.

I hope and pray that they show up. But they never do, just 200 emails regarding Viagra, mortgage rates and classmates.com...

[KharmaTrain]

5. Why Waste The Time With Spam?

Chances are a majority of the people who get these things delete them...and may get pissed if they get a response to an email they didn't want in the first place. My email still appears on flame wars between people on message boards I vacated years ago. And the liars and wingnuts are as bad as ever. Defrock all you want, they'll just put out more lies.

If your sister-in-law actually believes this, take her out for a nice dinner, show her lots of smiles and warmth and one-on-one explain the lies in the letter...or find out what issues concern her and discuss how Kerry has far better answers for the problems in her life than this regime that has cause many for her.

When you put the election on a level people relate to, they see a different light.

[sandnsea]

7. I've had good response

I've debunked a few, not very often. I've actually gotten great response and alot of thank you's. Even found out that one of the cops in my teeny town was a Kerry supporter. Also stopped some dingbats from sending email to me. These people don't like to be embarrassed.

[Ohio Dem]

9. My sister-in-law is already on board.

But she was pissed when she read this from her cousin, asked me to help in calling the cousin on her bullshit, and I did. I just want to do the best I can, and that means asking you all for help.

[KharmaTrain]

12. You've Done Fine With What You Have

I know about dealing with the in-laws...LOL. We started on my sister's husband years ago...he now sports a "Re-Defeat Bush" bumper sticker on his car. A couple weeks ago, his right wing parents all but came out and said they would not vote for Bunnypants...his mother said she's voting for Kerry...dad can't quite do that, he'll just stay home (mom will make sure of that...LOL).

His brothers are another story...too much Rush kool-aid and even they no longer attempt to defend his assholiness. But I can see their support very, very thin. Both have lost good paying jobs in the past couple years and constantly complain how poor the economy is...an opening my brother-in-law is working on. These are good people, just very uniformed.

My suggestion is to send those responses and be ready for even more, because you will surely get them.

Unfortunately, those who want to believe those lies (and you've debunked them as good as anyone could) are now cased in cement...filled with hate and anger. Too bad it's not directed where it should be.

Cheers!

[Ohio Dem]

13. You're right about the people that already believe the lies.

My family is solidly Democratic. In-laws included. And you're right about the emails she's gonna get. I already told her they would come. I'll help her debunk those, too, with DU's help. My hope is that her email could be so thoroughly researched and OKed by the DU, that there couldn't be much argument.

I agree with you that in the long run, this is all futile. But we might reach one person. One vote in Ohio is nothing to be sneezed at, you know. And her cousin borders on West Virginia, as do I. One vote there might mean even more.

And, at any rate, the email is bullshit. I post on other boards, and this will come up there, too. People will believe what they were gonna believe, you're right about that, but some people still don't know, and being told that the Republicans are lying to them (and they are) might be the difference for some people.

I know that I'm not fighting a major battle here. In the long run, this is all probably going to amount to nothing. But I do what I can.

Good luck with your father-in-law. I'll bet he gets this email from his brothers.

On edit: I hope I have your family members right.

Second edit: Cheers to you. (I was rude to omit it the first time, not to mention the "on edit" version.) Cheers!!!!

[KharmaTrain]

15. If I Could Move To Ohio...

I'm in Illinois...we're working on Congressional races here...but any votes from Ohio, West Va. & Pennsylvania are very welcome.

For those in "the middle" or soft, I don't think we need to do much more than point them at how strident and obnoxious this regime and its supporters have become...just point, no need to say a thing.

I know many here would love to be on high flame 24/7, but we're about to see the years of negatives come cascading back on these slime and hopefully lead to their resounding defeat. They're acting like children...and in a time when we face adult problems, Democrats are sure looking good these days.

Fortunately the my brother-in-law's family are distant from mine (I come from a century of proud, middle class Democrats...remember we vote early and often here. These folks are my wife's sisters in-laws...and they've never voted for a Democrat...not even for dog catcher. I'd prefer they just stay home...we hopefully will deliver enough votes here to help Kerry and those that stay home are votes Bunnypants really needs...any 2000 voter that stays home is like losing 2 votes...anyone that swings to Kerry is like 3!

Cheers!

[progressivebydesign]

11. You did a great job debunking..

..if you add a few of those links just supplied by other DUers, you'll be perfection! You REALLY did your homework. Your debunking should make the rounds, too.. good job!

Why are Republicans so darn mean???

[Ohio Dem]

14. Re: "Why are Republicans so darn mean??? "

Because they don't have the truth on their side.

Thanks for you kind assessment!

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Under "Personal," I'd add "Have been an avid hunter

since I was 12. Also enjoy fishing, which I began doing when I was 4. My dad taught me to fish and hunt."

And maybe add in that he windsurfs and kitesurfs. But definitely the hunting! The NRA has already sent out anti-Kerry literature to its members.

[lunarboy13]

17. Another thing you could say regarding a real job/world experience...

John Glenn used this quote to rebuke a repukes comment that he never haeld a real job. Kerry's service in the Navy and in Vietnam should suffice:

Howard Metzenbaum to John Glenn:

Metzenbaum: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a 'job'?"

Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I was through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions.

"I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, it was my life that was on the line. This was not a 9-to-5 job where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank.

"I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day to a Veterans Hospital, and look those men with their mangled bodies in the eye and tell them they didn't hold a job.

"You go with me to any Gold Star mother, and you look her in the eye and tell her that her son did not hold a job.

"You go with me to the space program, and you go as I have gone to the widows and the orphans of Ed White and Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee, and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their dad didn't hold a job.

"You go with me on Memorial Day coming up, and you stand on Arlington National Cemetery -- where I have more friends than I like to remember -- and you watch those waving flags, and you stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell me that those people didn't have a job.

"I tell you, Howard Metzenbaum, you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men -- SOME MEN -- who held a job. And they required a dedication to purpose and a love of country and a dedication to duty that was more important than life itself.

"And their self-sacrifice is what has made this country possible.

"I HAVE HELD A JOB, HOWARD!"

Link: <http://www.snopes.com/quotes/glenn.htm>

[wicket]

18. Damn!

Well done! :D