9/11: What do you think happened?

[JackRiddler]

Poll question: 9/11: What do you think happened?

It's been five months since the last time with this poll, let's see if views here have changed.

9/11: WHAT IS YOUR "HOP" LEVEL?

Of the attempts to categorize 9/11 theories I've seen, some beg questions or unfairly characterize what people think. Most are simply vague in their terms. I tried to do better with the following list of nine graduated options, which I believe fairly describe the differing opinions people actually have (short of those who believe in divine or extraterrestrial intervention). This remains a mental exercise, but I hope it helps sharpen our logic.

1 THE OFFICIAL STORY
19 hijackers planned 9/11 and carried it out using knives and mace to hijack the flights, without requiring any help from outside the bin Laden/Qaeda cell networks. Despite the indirect warnings and predictions from investigators and terror experts, the U.S. government did not acquire or synthesize sufficient intelligence prior to Sept. 11 to prevent the attacks. In fact, it makes sense that the attacks were not prevented, since they took advantage of our free society and weaknesses in the system prior to Sept. 11.
In other words, the opposition should stop trying to use 9/11 against Bush or anyone else. 9/11 skeptics merely discredit themselves.

2 INCOMPETENCE THEORY
Accepting the official story, this option adds the likelihood that the failures to prevent or defend against 9/11 were due to incompetence or criminal negligence on the part of the White House, FBI, CIA, NSA and/or other intelligence agencies. While malicious intent or foreknowledge on the part of U.S. government operatives is unthinkable, 9/11 is worth investigating to clear up where the failures lie. This is the now-open line of the Kean Commission, although they have signalled that these failures will be found only at middle and lower levels. It is more or less what Wesley Clark & a few other politicians are pushing, although they presume high-level failures leading back to Bush. It is usually coupled with emphatic promotion for the "War on Terror" and stricter "Homeland Security."

3 SAUDI/TALIBAN DOUBLE CROSS, BUSH APATHY
As in choice 1, the U.S. was blindsided. But the active involvement of fundamentalist Saudis in high places, at least in financing al-Qaeda, was far greater than so far revealed. The Bushies don't want that to get out, because it will make them look bad. That is why they obstructed the 9/11 inquiries. Bush & Co. called off terror investigations by the FBI before Sept. 11 as a favor to their Saudi clients. This recklessly facilitated the attacks, but the Bushies would have stopped the attacks, had they been smart enough to figure them out in advance. This is more or less what Greg Palast says and what Michael Moore presents in Fahrenheit 9/11.
Related Variant: Focuses on the Taliban. In early 2001, Bush & Co. looked away from the possibility of an attack and lowered the intensity of Bin Laden investigations so as to facilitate the ongoing pipeline negotiations with the Taliban. This is the line of Dasquie and Brisard's "The Forbidden Truth."

4 WISHING FOR PEARL HARBOR ("Letting It Happen")
Bush & Co. intentionally looked the other way in early 2001, expecting and hoping an attack would happen so that they could push through their PNAC/Christian Nation/Plunder Program wholesale - including the already-planned invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. They knew vaguely what was coming, may have provoked it and saw to it that it would not be prevented. But they did not directly facilitate the attacks, or incriminate themselves. They may have even been surprised at how horrible the actual attacks were. This position is popular at "Democratic Underground," as a default for those who suspect LIHOP but think the evidence is too thin. Max Cleland appears to have supported it before he shut up altogether on 9/11.

5 FULL LIHOP/LIHOP PLUS
LIHOP = Letting It Happen On Purpose
As in the official story, hijackers were dispatched by "al-Qaeda" (the Bin Laden-inspired cell networks) to carry out the 9/11 plan. However, Bush & Co. and/or other elements in the U.S. government, secret services or establishment knew about the attacks in advance and worked to ensure they would happen, with the intent of exploiting a New Pearl Harbor. This insider help included obstruction of FBI investigations, the Air Force standdown, and possible construction of other excuses for inaction, such as "we were only holding a wargame and it was subverted by evildoers."

5a. In LIHOP PLUS, the insiders took steps to guarantee that the 9/11 plot would succeed (why leave something so important in the hands of amateurs?), infiltrating and helping the hijackers, possibly even replacing them or steering the planes (or drones) by remote control, or doing whatever else was thought necessary.

NOTE: Scenarios 5a to 9 may or may not include a WTC demolition.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I think the likeliest hypothesis is of an inside job that exploited a "genuine" terrorist plot. Sometime between the Bojinka Plot of 1996 and 9/11 itself, the original Islamist extremist dream of crashbombing planes into American targets was subverted and then steered to fruition by masterminds within the U.S. power elite. This is the logical way to leave a robust trail of evidence pointing to the patsies. The perfect plot would produce a patsy who sincerely believed he had done it himself and was proud of it - like Marinus van der Lubbe, the man executed for burning the Reichstag.

6 NORTHWOODS 2001
MIHOP = Making It Happen On Purpose
There were no hijackers. The whole thing was planned long before 2001 and finally executed as an inside job by elements within the U.S. intel apparatus and the Bush mob, including the creation of the false-flag excuses, using patsies or a completely fake lists of perpetrators. The planes were flown by remote control or were replaced by drones. Wargames mimicking the actual attacks were held on Sept. 11 so as to confuse the majority of the military and provide a back-up cover story. The whole thing might as well have been Made in Hollywood - and that may even be the case, given the long history of CIA-Hollywood connections.

7 NWO RULES
NWO = New World Order
Same as Northwoods 2001, but the master plotters are not just "elements within the U.S. intel apparatus" but the global corporate ruling elite - a hardcore faction of which decided, as a group, to orchestrate an incident allowing them to gain greater control of the world Zeitgeist. 9/11 allows their proxies to seize key resources, reshape the world, drop the democratic facades and transition to open corporate feudalism; depopulation is one of the likely goals. The Bush mob are lower-order handmaidens, who may not have been privy to details in advance. The real players steered the propaganda before and after 9/11 to make it work. This is the Chaim Kupferberg/Michel Chossudovsky/Don Paul approach.

8 ROGUE FACTION / "NEOCONS" / MOSSAD / BUSHCO. SUCKERED
Bush & Co. themselves were blindsided by super right-wing elements within the U.S. mil/intel complex, who effectively attempted or even succeeded in staging a coup. This is how I interpret the views of LaRouche, Thierry Miessan, and others. Please pick this one if you think the locus of the plot is within Israeli/"Zionist" interests.

9 THIRD STATE
Various theories, usually pushed by lone crusaders, have mixed and matched to lay the primary blame on Iraq, Pakistan, China, Russia or German Nazis, sometimes a combination. (If you still think the primary locus of the plot was within the U.S. intel apparatus, go to choices 5 to 7. For Saudi Arabia or Taliban, go to Choice 3.)

10 DON'T KNOW
Some have rushed to describe complete scenarios of given events that seem to incorporate all facts but could still be wrong. We lack the power to subpeona records or bring up witnesses who could answer given questions. We have been flooded with misinformation from many sources: agencies of the U.S. and other countries, officials looking to cover themselves or score points, the media, opportunist authors, fake whistleblowers and putative witnesses. The worst impulse is to declare the case closed for one's favorite scenario. We must keep probing and correcting. We need to establish genuine peer review and a common data base, and kill off some of the more persistent errors that still crop up. (Perhaps we have that already: COOPERATIVERESEARCH.ORG) And we must, obviously, keep fighting for genuine independent investigation and disclosure - even as we work on larger political strategies to deal with the reality that the U.S. government will never disclose the full truth of 9/11, until the people force it.

[Bettie]

1. It can't be coincidental

That Bush was looking like a total idiot, his fledgling mis-administration foundering and suddenly, wham! There is a war on the horizon....he can talk tough and swagger around playing cowboy!

OK, my tinfoil hat is on.

[Hoping4Change]

2. Great post. I'm nominating it for the homepage.

[Canuckistanian]

3. Sheer incompetence

These Mayberry Machiavellis couldn't organize a church picnic without screwing it up.

Despite all the neocon "world domination" theories, it still relies on the ability of this maladministration to carry it off.

Something of this magnitude could be planned, but certainly not executed by these Keystone Kops.

[Sterling]

6. I used to think that but

Then I watched them steal an election and manipulate reality in such a way I have not come across since reading about the rise of the Nazi's. Hitler was also a boob, his mistakes cost Germany dearly. He foolishly opened up a two front war that destroyed Germany.


This is the kind of stupid Bush and his Neo cons are. Unfortunately that does not mean they are too incompetent to take control of our country and turn us into a rouge nation.

[StandUpGuy]

7. As a fellow Canadian...

I urge you to reconsider your position.

WE LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THESE FASCISTS.

We are going to be invaded once they officially declare war in the Euro to "preempt" those "old Europeans" from gaining a foothold in America's back door .



:tinfoilhat:

[Canuckistanian]

9. I hear Belgium has chemical weapons

And France, don't get me started.....

[JackRiddler]

8. Let me get this straight...

So carrying out the 9/11 plot as an inside job would be smart?

Let's face it, it would require a very high level of stupidity to even want to do this. There is no contradiction between competence in executing operations and extreme personal stupidity, it's practically what the present system runs on.

Or do you think the Nazis were smart? Let's not confuse intelligence with ruthless cunning, the ability to lie without conscience, and contempt for the general population.

[scarletwoman]

4. Nicely done!

While I have always held that the 9/11 attacks were "MIHOP", my own speculations about how it was accomplished run more to your option 5a-"LIHOP PLUS".

I toyed with the "remote control" idea for awhile, but in view of some of the evidence released by the 9/11 Commission (the airplane tapes), it seems more likely (and less "out there") that there WERE actual highjackers involved. In any case, the identity of the highjackers is somewhat secondary -- the REAL importance lies in who funded/enabled the operation.

sw

[liberalitch]

5. Believed the leader of the free world could ignore it...

everything...
Israel
the UN
Former soviet satellites
Islamic fundementalism
north korea
china
...i forgot AIDs
the entire western hemisphere (damn beaners)
... and go on vacation!

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Full LIHOP

without the LIHOP Plus 5a.

John O'Neill's story raises some eyebrows, but Marion "Spike" Bowman takes the cake. He was richly rewarded despite his alleged incompetence. If they will ever let Sibel Edmonds talk, there won't be any question about LIHOP, and the country will revolt.

[Beam Me Up]

11. NWO RULES

9/11 was only one step in a process.

Too much attention and energy gets focused on W on this board and in the media. He is like a lightning rod, a decoy. He gets all our wrath and derision. But who really makes the rules? Who really "elects" a pResident?

It isn't about *. It is about manipulating the human psyche and creating an historical "mythology" that will be used to "explain" all that is about to occur.

Ask, "Why?" Ask, "Who benefits?" And then create a relational database showing their connections to the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world. Make it public. Something like this, only better:

[Doctor_J]

12. sorry, but 2) doesnt pass the laugh test

there is no way that that level of incompetence is possible. The clues and warnings were too many and too stark to be missed by sheer incompetence. They simply HAD to be ignoring them deliberately.

[JackRiddler]

13. Whatever

I'm just listing and describing what people claim as fairly as I can, not predefining the options. My opinion is clear.

[wordout]

14. 7 NWO RULES

And an Luciferian NWO at that. It's wide on the surface, but the more you dig along the sides the closer you get to the eye at the bottom.

'just love how it's your 7th choice!!

[JohnLocke]

15. SAUDI/TALIBAN DOUBLE CROSS, BUSH APATHY -- most likely scenario.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

16. NWO

and another diagram.

[lanparty]

17. MIHOP + LIHOP

I'm 90% certain that they knew about the hijackings and actively helped the conspirators to their ultimate goal. However, they had there own teams plant explosives to MAKES SURE the towers would fall.

WTC 7 is the key. It is the "magic bullet" of 9/11. There was NO REASON for that building to spontaneously collapse exactly like a controlled demolition.

This is the reason that Bush was so calm in that classroom. It was no different than Michael Corleoni's calm at the baptism of his child. Everything was being taken care of. There was no reason to act because everything was going as planned.

[lanparty]

18. MIHOP + LIHOP

The knew about the plot and actively helped it along. They used the terrorist attack as an opportunity to "make sure" those buildings containing key information came down.

The Bush administration secretly helped Osama Bin Laden out of Torra Borra. His capture would have defuesed public support for more warfare.

[TahitiNut]

19. Don't forget the FBI "evidence dump" within the first 48 hours.

Anyone that thinks for a nanosecond that the FBI gathered any of that information by external investigation after the morning of 9/11 just isn't paying attention. Everything that was made public in the first 48-72 hours was already known - and much more - with the possible exception of flight numbers.

It took the FBI over six months to stop hounding Richard Jewell for the Olympic Park bombings and finally start going after Eric Rudolph. They didn't even charge Rudolph until 2 years and 3 months later. It took them nearly 7 years to capture him (with assistance) even though he was hiding in an area far smaller than Afghanistan. Rudolph's trial is scheduled for next month.

[JackRiddler]

20. kicker for more votes...

x

[LunaC]

21. The G8 were in on it

That puts it in the NWO category in my mind.

[JackRiddler]

22. G-8?

Please explain.

[LunaC]

23. The "Group of Eight"

The G8 refers to the "group of eight", the eight most advanced
industrialized countries, measured by economic output. The
current membership of the G8 includes the United Kingdom,
Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United
States. The heads of state of G8 countries, and the President of
the European Commission gather for summit style meetings
annually. Hosting of the Summit rotates among G8 members.

The purpose of the Summits is to develop and implement strategies
for reform and co-ordinate policy on issues of international
importance. Stated purposes of the G8 also include influencing the
International Monetary Fund and World Bank, other industrialized
countries, and other global organizations. Summit agenda themes
include macroeconomic policy, nuclear safety, environmental
degradation, drug proliferation, international terrorism and foreign
investment in developing countries.

http://www.fabianglobalforum.net/knowledge/article004.html

Here's how the G8 played a role in 911........

In May 2001 the U.S. State Department met with Iran, German and Italian officials to discuss Afghanistan. It was decided that the ruling Taliban would be toppled and a "broad-based government" would control the country so a gas pipeline could be built there.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/7969.pdf.
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm


Even as plans were being made to remove the Taliban rulers from power, Colin Powell announced a $43 million "gift" to Afghanistan.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-02-02.html


Meanwhile, the U.S. Embassy in the UAE received a call that Bin Laden supporters were in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives. It was rumored that Bin Laden was interested in hijacking U.S. aircraft.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf


In June 2001 the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense was changed. NORAD’s military commanders could no longer issue the command to launch fighter jets because approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/for_the_record_ashley.pdf


In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,556254,00.html


In September 2001 the "catastrophic and catalyzing" modern-day Pearl Harbor envisioned years earlier by the White House members of the PNAC came to pass when the WTC and Pentagon were attacked with U.S. aircraft as Rumsfeld sat passive and unresponsive. Immediately, the finger of blame was pointed at Osama bin Laden, a former CIA operative with ties to Afghanistan. Suddenly, the U.S. "gift" of $43 million to the Taliban in May was cast in a new light. Coincidentally, Pakistan had participated in the plan to attack Afghanistan and the chief of Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence agency was later linked to a 911 hijacker after wiring him $100,00 just days before the WTC fell.

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm
http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=8830
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=1454238160


In October 2001, with flags waving, crowds cheering, and anthems playing, the "War On Terror" and the hunt for Osama began when Afghanistan was attacked right on schedule of July's secret meeting


Shorrtly afterwards, public focus was diverted to Iraq. You already know the rest of the story.


For details on the PNAC coup of the White House see "The Whispering Campaign" link below.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=976762

[JackRiddler]

26. Sorry

Maybe I am missing it but I don't see support for the following, which seems to be your text, in any of the sources you cite:

"In July 2001, the private plot formulated in May for toppling the Taliban was divulged during the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy. Immediately after the conference, American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials secretly met in Berlin to finalize the strategy for military strikes against the Taliban, scheduled to begin before mid-October 2001."

How was this divulged "during" the G8 Summit? I don't see this in any of the reports, or recall any such report, ever. Do you mean simply than that the Berlin meetings in July coincided in time with the Genoa summit? Although some of the same nations may have participated, that does not establish a connection to the Summit or the G8 as organization.

Furthermore, the Berlin meetings did not discuss a "strategy" for military strikes, far as I know. That is in no way supported by the articles you cite. The Taliban were the ones who blew off the meetings, which were meant to convince them to play the global game. The U.S. side then delivered threats but hardly discussed strategy with the other participants.

Please clarify.

[LunaC]

28. You SHOULD be sorry - Read the link again

What part of this don't you understand?


"Plans to destroy the Taliban had been the subject of international diplomatic and not-so-diplomatic discussions for months before September 11.

"There was a crucial meeting in Geneva in May 2001 between US State Department, Iranian, German and Italian officials where the main topic was a strategy to topple the Taliban and replace thetheocracy with a "broad-based government".

"The topic was raised again in full force at the Group of Eight (G-8) summit in Genoa, Italy, in July 2001 when India -- an
observer at the summit -- also contributed its own plans."

"Pipelineistan was the central topic in secret negotiations in a Berlin hotel a few days after the G-8 summit, between American, Russian, German and Pakistani officials.

"And Pakistani high officials, on condition of anonymity, have extensively described a plan set up by the end of July 2001 by American advisers, consisting of military strikes against the Taliban from bases in Tajikistan, to be launched before mid-October."

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex20867.htm

I don't just pull this stuff out of my butt! My statements are fully supported by the link I provided. A more careful reading on your part would be appreciated.

[JackRiddler]

29. you win the apology

I didn't associate this link with the statement, so I read the other two links instead (BBC, Guardian). But you're right, that's what it says in the article from Asia Times (reprinted, in Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections). Thanks!

[LunaC]

34. Accepted!

I put a lot of time and energy into verifying my statements/sources so I tend to get pissy when they're called into question. Never fear.....all is forgiven!

[merh]

32. I don't think they would have announced their plans at the G-8 summit

that would have been too dangerous, too many possibilities of leaks. Also, if they did advise the nations of the G-8, why is it that France and Germany have not supported our efforts in Iraq?

Also, this article is very interesting.

===========================
Germany to drop 9/11 plot charges
Evidence against only man jailed for terror attack 'weak'

David Rose in Hamburg
Sunday July 18, 2004
The Observer

German prosecutors are preparing to drop all the most serious charges against the only man convicted for the 11 September attacks, because they fear that crucial American evidence was obtained by torturing detainees.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1263796,00.html

[LunaC]

33. Consider this

If Germany and France were made aware of the plans to attack Afghanistan at the G8 meeting in July and then witnessed 911 as the "justification" for that attack, then I'd assume they questioned Iraq's complicity and subsequently opposed the war partially on that basis. Germany supected al-Qaeda involvement two years prior to 911so they knew Saddam wasn't the Bad Guy he was being portrayed to be. The CIA, however, mostly ignored the warnings from German intelligence. In his book "911 and the CIA" (in German), Andreas von Bulow - former German defense minister - lays out the evidence of the military-industrial complex carrying out the attacks

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aouci2du6VLw&refer=germany
http://www.prisonplanet.com/jones_report.html

Perhaps more important than the question of Saddam's complicity in 911, Germany, France, and Russia didn’t want to get involved in a war because of the money they had invested with Iraq. A war in Iraq would have very negative effects on French economic prospects in the region. France was Iraq's most favored trading partner and was heavily involved in Mideast regional energy development. The French energy giant Total Fina Elf brought the world's largest offshore natural gas field online in southern Iran, along with Russian natural gas firm Gazprom and the Malaysian company Petronas. Total Fina Elf also had multibillion-dollar oil contracts with Iraq, but because of U.N. resolutions, these contracts were not signed and were waiting to be executed when sanctions were lifted. The Russian firm Lukoil had a similar $4 billion agreement to develop the Iraqi West Qurnah oil field.
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins021103.asp

Additionally, Iraq was deeply in debt and Germany, France and Russia wanted to recoup the moneys owed to them in the amounts of $2.4B, $3B, and $3.5B, respectively.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-12-15-iraq-debt-usat_x.htm


As with most things political......follow the money! And, after all, that's what the G8 is all about! Going into Afghanistan was one thing - there was money to be MADE - but in attacking Iraq there was money to be LOST!

[merh]

36. Oh, I agree about the G-8 being advised about the attack on Afghanistan

and the monetary reaons why the attack was necessary. I do not believe the G-8 was advised of the complexity and all parties involved and the whys of the attack on Iraq. I believe they had their suspicions, which is why they would not agree with it.

Thanks for the links, btw. Good stuff there.

[xocolatl]

24. LIHOP + MIHOP

Al Qaeda was manipulated by elites to make it happen. Who knows, maybe Osama Bin Laden was really working for big Saudi oil?

I don't think George W was personally in-the-know. I don't think he could be trusted with the information. But other more shadowy figures, closely related to the administration (Cheney?) were involved.

[stickdog]

25. Either they knew it or they blew it so badly that they had to cover up

AND spread a trail of disinfo that stinks to high heaven.

[bacchant]

27. GEORGE BUSH GOES TO BENDAR BUSH FOR HELP

Bendar & crew cook up a little Saudi "home grown solution". Direct communication with the White House is too risky, so Bush takes the month of august off to "work" from home. Boom 911. As Moore states; that evening George and Bendar share drinks and cigars on a White House balcony as the Pentagon burns in the distance.

"Cheers Bendar my old friend, welcome to the New World Order".

[JackRiddler]

30. The trend so far...

This is of course an "unscientific" click-poll, a self-selected sample of DU members interested in the issues. (I put that in quotes because "scientific" polls even if done honestly are almost as dubious.)

With about 150 votes in, we have about 25 percent supporting the mainstream official narratives (options 1 & 2). This is double the proportion from the last poll in February (when it was about 12 percent). It probably reflects that in the meantime, 9/11 issues are more prominent in the mainstream media and so more of those who take the official narratives seriously are clicking into this thread.

Option 3 (Saudi double cross/Bush apathy) has dropped off drastically from February's total of 14 percent. Adding that to options 1-2, we see that about 30 percent of respondents do NOT believe the Bush administration or U.S. intel services were complicit in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Meanwhile, about two-thirds chose options that do include the idea of intentional government wrongdoing to facilitate or engineer the attacks. This down slightly from the proportion in February. However, at that time 48 percent chose "Wishing for Pearl Harbor," the vague variant in which the Bush admin simply lowers defenses and invites attack, without actually facilitating it.

Now we see that a near-majority instead choose full LIHOP, the scenario of full foreknowledge, intent, and probable facilitation. I conclude that the 9/11 skeptics among us seem more confident in what the evidence shows and in their ability to support it.

Caution: So far about half as many people have voted as in February.

[yardwork]

31. I voted Don't Know because it's important to keep digging on this.

My personal belief is that #3 Double-Cross/Bush Apathy is pretty close to the mark, but there is too much being hidden.

We need to get to the bottom of this.

[sadiesworld]

35. I lean toward MIHOP...

but find it difficult to commit.

The only theory I feel comfortable discarding entirely is "Wishing it would happen" (or a light LIHOP). I just don't see Rumsfield and Wolfowitz sitting in the Pentagon (w/ their respective heads up their asses) after the first WTC hit if they had an idea of what might be afoot. It seems that they were either clueless, incompetent morons, or they had were instrumental in determining exactly where the Pentagon would be hit.

BTW, does anyone know of a diagram which shows how much/which portion(s) of the Pentagon were reinforced prior to 9/11?

[Wonk]

37. kick