Bush has Saddam's gun; kept is as a souvenir

[CatWoman]

and proudly shows it off.

I have a problem with this. A huge problem.

However, the biggest thing gnawing at me is that if Bush is going to keep and display souvenirs, it should be a personal item of Osama's, not Saddam's.

This only reinforces, to me anyway, that this war was all about Saddam, not Osama, or some phony "War on Terra".

[kalian]

1. Umm....the ENTIRE THING is phony....

Come on Catwoman...we all know, deep inside, that all this has been
a LIE since the beginning. Whether or not shurb knew or was part
of the entire operation (9/11 onward) remains to be discovered.

As for shrub having Saddam's gun...I don't doubt it, just like I
don't doubt that he has a "score card" of "evildoers" that he plans
on knocking out.

[CatWoman]

3. yes, of course "WE" know this about this bs "war"

and more and more * supporters should acknowledge it, too.

[kalian]

4. AOL keyword: "should"

but they won't. Admitting that you were (are) wrong is a very
difficult thing for sheep. No independent thought, its completely
"herd mentality".

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. As far as the "score card" goes..

PNAC's agenda pretty much calls for the entire Middle East (except for you-know-who, naturally) to be invaded.

But there could very well be a personal scorecard. Maybe Poppy wants all of his old business wrapped up before his eternal relocation to Hell?

Osama and Saddam were both his employees. Poppy took Noriega down himself. Seems to be a pattern with the Bush Criminal Empire when their business assets become liabilities.

[qwertyMike]

34. This guy's got ISSUES

The whole cowardly lot have ISSUES
Deep dark ISSUES
Meanwhile they are bankrupting the country and American kids are dying.

Any shrinks on DU?

[leftchick]

2. It is sick on so many levels....

one of which is the fact that aWol* has a fucking war souvenir and he has never served a day in his putrid little life in a war zone. It is sickening beyond belief. The man should be committed. :puke:

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

5. "He tried to kill my Pappy, but I have his gun"...

...this is a symptom of a much larger problem. I've said it before, Bush is Oedipus Rex 2004.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. I didn't know this.

The man is trying to prove himself to be tough. It won't work, except with the bush toadies.

[CatWoman]

7. there's a story about it in LBN

I believe as reported by Time Magazine.

[AP]

8. That's so 1895.

Figures.

[robpopulace]

9. Bush gets the unloaded gun

Cheney gets the box of cash...

Osama gets everything he wanted.

[madrchsod]

10. another shining example in my belief

that over 50% of those people at the war college speech the other night finally realized how the german generals felt..bush is a sick person who has led us into a war that is unwinable under his "leadership" and he is destroying the american military...god is this a sorry chapter in this nation

[Bozita]

11. I thought that "war souvenirs" of this type were illegal

Am I wrong?

??

[CatWoman]

13. that's a good question

I need to look it up.

IMO, it's no different than the soldiers and journalists ripping off art and rugs from Saddam's mansions.

[neebob]

14. From an Army lesson on the application of The Hague and Geneva Conventions

https://hosta.atsc.eustis.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/accp/is1802/lsn.htm

Section B4a: "Equally criminal would be taking as souvenirs valuables from dead bodies or from any prisoner."

Saddam is a prisoner, is he not?

[neebob]

27. Come to think of it

I could swear I saw something very recently about U.S. soldiers taking gold teeth and wallets and stuff off of dead Iraqis. Damn - where was that? Seems like it was on TV.

[neebob]

22. Actual text of the Fourth Geneva Convention

CHAPTER VI

Personal Property and Financial Resources

Art. 97. Internees shall be permitted to retain articles of personal use. Monies, cheques, bonds, etc., and valuables in their possession may not be taken from them except in accordance with established procedure. Detailed receipts shall be given therefor.

<snip>

Articles which have above all a personal or sentimental value may not be taken away.

<snip>

On release or repatriation, internees shall be given all articles, monies or other valuables taken from them during internment and shall receive in currency the balance of any credit to their accounts kept in accordance with Article 98, with the exception of any articles or amounts withheld by the Detaining Power by virtue of its legislation in force. If the property of an internee is so withheld, the owner shall receive a detailed receipt.

<snip>

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/geneva1.html

[qwertyMike]

36. You are right

[the Kelly Gang]

12. Freud would have a field day with this

[PaDUer]

15. Isn't it illegal

to keep anything?

[CatWoman]

16. see neebob's excellent post above.

[PaDUer]

23. Catwoman and neebob..

then it's time for the people to let them KNOW he's committed another crime..it's time to stand up to ALL their BS instead of letting them ignore the law..No wonder the other countries are laughing at us and watching to see what the people are going to do about all this. I was reading other countries forums, and I posted about it at that time, and they're waiting to see what action the american people are going to take, or are we going to look the other way while crimes committed in the people's names are committed. This can NOT continue because it's our lives who are at risk. It's gone way too far already, and it's about time the people get off their butts and do something. I know many read the freaksville threads and those nutcases do what they feel should be done which includes massmailings, phone calls, and faxes to media, the honchos in DC, and whoever/whatever else, when something happens that's not to their liking, and the sad thing is, they get what they want!

[neebob]

24. First, I think we need to be certain he does have Saddam's gun

and then find out if there are other provisions that would enable the taking of something like a gun from someone like Saddam. Then you have the whole stupid question of whether the Geneva Conventions apply. Unfortunately, I don't think most people care if they apply to Saddam or whether Chimpy took his gun.

[PaDUer]

45. I guess you can read the comments

below..he's not entitled to it...time to start yelling about this..Honestly, we can't allow these monsters to do whatever..time to call them on everything, loud and clear...This is the ONLY way to put them on notice and action..it must be done or we're permitting this BS to continue, and we must act now before the elections because it's apparent there's going to be danger ahead. We must also keep on the media and insist that they pursue this since they're coming out of their shells slowly.

[Cleita]

17. What a jerk off. He isn't supposed to be accepting gifts while

he is in office. What was that big stink about the Clintons taking gifts with them that were supposed to be left behind as the property of the people?

[Eric J in MN]

18. Catwoman - where is that information from? nt

nt

[CatWoman]

30. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x591609

[neebob]

40. It's also on MSNBC

Bush keeps Saddam's gun in White House

Weapon was taken from Iraqi leader when he was captured

Updated: 12:19 p.m. ET May 30, 2004WASHINGTON, May 30 - - A handgun that Saddam Hussein was clutching when U.S. forces captured him in a hole in Iraq last December is now kept by President Bush at the White House, Time magazine reported Sunday.

Military officials had the pistol mounted after it was seized from Saddam near his hometown of Tikrit last year, and soldiers involved in the capture gave it to Bush in a private meeting, Time said.

The magazine quoted a visitor who had been shown the gun, which is kept in a small study off the Oval Office where Bush displays memorabilia. It is the same room where former President Clinton had some of his encounters with former intern Monica Lewinsky.

Bush shows Saddam's gun to select visitors, telling them it is unloaded, both now and when Saddam was captured, Time reported.

<snip>

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5099013/

Is there a bigger idiot on the planet? I don't think so.

[Vickers]

42. They still had to sneak a Clinton comment in there, didn't they?

:eyes:

That man's pecker SKEERS folks.

[mike1963]

51. Well, at least Clinton's gun was loaded...

:evilgrin:

[patrick g]

19. here's my .02

yes it is illegal to keep the gun. you cannot legally take belongings/posessions from enemies or prisoners. since bush isn't a soldier and has never been, he doesn't understand this law. the united states soldiers who retrieved saddam and his pistol had no right to offer the "prize" to the head of the united states military. a good commander would have not accepted it and had it done away with, or given to the proper authorities. the soldiers would have been reprimanded and the entire service would get rebriefed on the law. punishments would become more severe if it continued to happen. BUT AGAIN, bush is no commander. he's just a young lad enjoying what his father and friends have given him. i imagine his eyes lit up like a five year old's upon receiving the pistol . . ..

[salin]

20. I put the behavior at about age... 8

only slightly more advanced when we were told about his scorecard for Afghanistan where he kept this card with faces on it and xed out the faces as the evildoers were captured or killed. I put that at about age 6. Funny, though, how quickly (by March of 2002?) he forgot all about that juvenile tool for keeping track... put his attention span at about age 4.

[cliss]

25. Didn't Hitler collect mementos?

I read here a while back that Rumsfeld has a piece of the airliner which slammed into the Pentagon (or one of the Twin Towers). Someone also wrote that Rumsfeld has a gruesome memento from that disaster.

The dude is a collector. I wonder what else he has in his desk?

[Malva Zebrina]

26. this is an urban legend that reminds me of the ones the born agains

are so fond of inventing.

They indulge in this type of absurdity because, imo, they lack, the intellect to realize the absurdity of it all

and, actually, there are the sheep who do believe it.

I have received a few of them

simply Christian urban legends and this seems to be along the same line.

[neebob]

28. Why is it absurd to think Bush would have Saddam's gun?

[Nevernose]

33. Reported in "Time" and other reliable new sources

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040607-644112,00.html

"When Saddam Hussein was rousted from his spider hole in Dawr, a town near Tikrit, by U.S. soldiers last December, Iraq's fallen dictator was clutching a pistol. He is now in detention at an undisclosed location, being questioned by American authorities and awaiting charges for war atrocities and crimes against humanity. But what ever happened to the pistol?

The sidearm has made its way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Sources say that the military had the pistol mounted after the soldiers seized it from Saddam and that it was then presented to the President privately by some of the troops who played a key role in ferreting out the old tyrant. Though it was widely reported at the time that the pistol was loaded when they grabbed Saddam, Bush has told visitors that the gun was empty—and that it is still empty and safe to touch. "He really liked showing it off," says a recent visitor to the White House who has seen the gun. "He was really proud of it.""

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9700151%255E1702,00.html

[Betty The Younger]

29. American's deserve a pic of Bush* aiming Saddams gun in the air

Like the media showed us Saddam doing over and over and over again. What a picture that would be, Bush* and Saddam side by side pointing their guns one handed into the air. MACHO MEN! Wow. How pathetic, how ironic, a symbol for one also a symbol for the other. How many here don't know that in a different era under different circumstances, Saddam and Bush* would be best pals?

[Vickers]

31. If true, he is a looter.

Let's just hope the Karma Police make him do a Barney Fife with the thing.

[powergirl]

32. Doesn't Rumsfled display a piece of the airplane that crashed into

the Pentagon? What is it with these chickenhawks and their morbid desire to have war "trophies."

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

35. That Time article says he keeps it in a study with

mementos that are important to him, such as busts of Churchill and Eisenhower and a picture of some troops praying in Afghanistan. It seems he has elevated one rotten, oppressive dictator, out of about 200 others in the world, into something more than he should be.

It's all about Bush and his little vendetta, I guess. Churchill and Eisenhower would probable think he was an embarrassing ass! The president ought to above such a petty thing.

[mopaul]

37. I hope he has the sense to save at least one bullet

for when the villagers come with bloodhounds and torches to get his ass.

[CatWoman]

39. a la Barney Fife?

:hi:

[Eric J in MN]

38. This reinforces the notion that it's all about Bush and Saddam and

This reinforces the notion that it's all about Bush and Saddam and the thousands of Iraqis who died don't matter.

[gulliver]

46. Bingo.

Very foolish thing for Bush to do, but not unexpected...

[CatWoman]

41. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

they are ripping Chimpy a new one over this on the Yahoo boards:

http://post.news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37138445&sid=37138445&title=Bush%20Reportedly%20Keeps%20Saddam%20Gun%20at%20White%20House&tid=nmbushsaddamgundc&date=05-30-2004&url=story.news.yahoo.com%2Fnews%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D%2Fnm%2F20040530%2Fts_nm%2Fbush_saddam_gun_dc_1&.sig=.d7BAnE3H734j3yD_6CADg--

[neebob]

44. Hey, so much for not being able to think of any mistakes, huh?

Wouldn't it be cool if this is the thing that finally takes him down? It's got to at least fire up the debate about the Geneva Conventions.

[salin]

47. Remember the days when the YaHoo boards seemed to crawl

with bush supporters... those days are LOOOOOOOOOOng gone.

[CatWoman]

48. LOL

:hi: Salin

I have plenty of good company over there :D

[salin]

49. And here I thought

it was just catwoman and her 15,000 psuedonyms ;-)

:hi:

[BringEmOn]

43. Any day now, Junior will step out onto the Whitehouse balcony....

[gulliver]

50. This is going to be a big week for comedians.

I'm so glad Bush is Bush. What a complete ass!

[TexasMexican]

52. Which gun?

cmon its vital to the story. :p

Also is it still fully functional?

I dont really have a problem with bush having his "souvenir," but I do think its hypocritical that our troops cant bring anything like that back.

meh just read the whole thread, just his pistol, I was thinking it was one of those gold plated AKs like his sons had.