Did I just hear Novak use a racial slur?

[oasis]

On CNN's Crossfire Bob Novak was commenting on an E-mail by a viewer who asks if Bob made a recent parachute jump to emulate Poppy Bush.

Novak's answer: "He (Bush) was bailing out after being shot down by Japs".

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Yep

Heard that too :puke:

[oasis]

4. No doubt that will be scrubbed from their transcripts. No apology.

[MallRat]

8. All right. WHO IS THAT WOMAN IN YOUR AVATAR?

Sorry if this is a newbie question, but it seems that lots of DUers have this red-headed woman as their avatar. Who is she?

-MR

[VolcanoJen]

12. The woman in the avatar is peace activist Rachel Corrie

Read more about her life here:

http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

[mikeysnot]

14. I think it is Rachel Corrie?

The girl who was buldozed in the West Bank by Isreali's , she was trying to protect Palistinian families...

[tom_paine]

18. Rachel Corrie: Peace Activist--Murdered

Another Bushevik-type accident.

"Woops. I didn't mean to kill you, I just meant to run over you with my bulldozer."

[Bombtrack]

26. It's not a murder when you put yourself in front of a moving bulldozer

she's a fool.

[tom_paine]

29. Often, the frightened view the courageous as fools

(not that I am speaking personally, of you, Bombtrack, just making an observation as regards the Human Condition which we all share)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/

And even the notoriously skewed CNN (pro-Bush, therefore pro-Sharon) put it, the driver knowingly murdered her.

I also find it interesting that someone would take the words of the unidentified, unsourced "other witnesses" over people who have the courage to name themselves.

Yes, as interesting as Holocaust Denial. I'll bet a lot of anonymous "other witnesses" say that no more than 3,000 of we Jews were murdered then. But maybe those 3,000 invited it "by standing in front of a moving SS boot" or something, according to those "other witnesses".

Yes, that's it. God Bless those "unnamed witnesses" and the truth they tell!

Finally, to support my generic point about Human Nature, i.e that frightened people view courage as foolish, allow me to point out:

The same was thought about the Freedom Riders and Civil Rights Workers, some of whom "stood in front of moving KKK Men" and were killed for their foolishness.

The same was thought of abolitionists, who were often denied their mail, beaten and murdered for opposing slavery.

The same was thought of so many people who history views as brave, courageous and far more farsighted than their shortsighted and frightened contemporaries that I have no choice to view the same type denunciation as the same type of nonsense it always has been, mouthed as it always has by scared rabbits who would allow another Holocaust or walk right into the ovens.

May God grant me the courage of Rachel Corrie if I am ever in need of it. And may God grant me that courage even if the victims aren't fellow Jews, but even if they are people of other races.

And may God grant that the eyes of the frightened mass of shortsighted people that will suffer untold evil unless it affects them personally or their Race personally, will slowly awaken due to the courageous examples set by people like Ms. Corrie throughout history.

One last observation: IF (and I am NOT speaking of anyone in partiuclar, but once again making a general observation) a person is called a fool by a frightened, shortsighted individual, should that not be considered a compliment??

Because, in general, frightened shortsighted people SHOULD be angry and taken aback by genuine courage when they see it.

It's what makes them frightened and shortsighted. A pity.

[duhneece]

34. Beautifully put! nt

[Lisa0825]

36. wow! well-said!

[Tatiana]

40. Damn. That was a five-star post.

Seriously, one of the best responses I've read in a long time. Thanks for pointing out what seems obvious to me, but isn't as obvious to others.

[DoNotRefill]

47. She was a fool....

what good did her death do or cause?

The house in question was still bulldozed. The IDF practices are the same now as they were before.

Nothing changed. She's still dead. Her legacy is that the RWers use her name as the punchline of bad jokes.

Trying to stop bulldozers by using your bones to break or wear out their treads is a foolish thing to do. Courageous, yes, but it's still stupid.

[wtmusic]

62. MLK's still dead too. What a fool.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceForever]

69. If someone walks in front of your car . . .

any you don't brake for them and instead run them over, killing them, you'll go to prison. The law doesn't care whether the person was being foolish.

[JohnLocke]

22. Rachel Corrie.

Was accidently run over when the Israeli army tried to bulldoze a home. She was blocking the house. Some people here said it was "murder." Totally false.

By the way, welcome to DU!
:toast:

[tom_paine]

30. Sometimes my fellow Jews make me ashamed

Nothing personal, I'm just saying.

Sometimes. You'd think people would learn from history, particularly we who have paid such a high price for the Blind Obedience and Unquestioning Acceptance of Official Party Line from others.

Now, it's our turn. We have some power and we are showing ourselves to be EXACTLY as corruptible and capable of atrocity as any other human beings.

Sure, we have justification. EVERYONE has justification for atrocities. Hell, the Busheviks have created an entire Soviet-style Party Sub-Media devoted to just that task.

I have an entire branch of family in Israel, 70+ members, so everybody please spare me the "you have no idea whats going on there" bit.

It disturbs me to see fellow Jews mouthing the same kind of Blind Obedience and acceptance as the people who shoved us into gas chambers 50 years ago.

One wonders, back in those days, how many Germans or maybe even some Jews early on said, "No Jews are deliberately killed in these camps. They are merely countryside prisons, though some Jews have died by accident."

Anyone can believe anything they want. Thoughtcrime is not a crime yet in the Amerikan Empire.

You may believe that Rachel Corrie was killed by accident. A Holocaust Denier can think no more than 3,000 Jews died in the camps and those from accident or disease.

Just don't ask me to buy into your certainty over that which is, at the very least, impossible to be certain about, and at most demonstarbly untrue.

[JohnLocke]

31. I'm not certain on anything.

Rachel Corrie's death was unnecessary and had no benefit to Israel. I just dislike it when people instantly say she was "murdered" by "the Israelis." It's the knee jerk I can't stand.

[tom_paine]

38. Well, neither am I, but to my mind the eyewitness testimony

suggests a knowing murder, or perhaps an involuntary manslaughter at best?

Sorry, but I am equally upset at people who dismiss the possibility that the Israeli could NEVER have just said "Fuck it, I'm gunning the bulldozer. If she doesn't get out of the way, that's her bad luck."

That would be a very human reaction, to my mind.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/

1st question How come the "other witnesses" who told a different story declined to be named? Fishy.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=273498&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0

2nd question No mention at all of the "accident version" in Haaretz? This ain't Debka we're talking about here, I trust Haaretz somewhat. Again we have DETAILED ifnromation from the activists. In this case, an alternate story verified by anonymous "other witnesses", doesn't even show up here.

Based on the inconsistencies in these stories, I feel like the "accident" story was a desperate afterthought. Further, at this point in time I don't trust the IDFs weak "internal investigation". any more than I believe the Bushevik "investigations" like the one on their friend, the Anthrax Assassin.

[Cassandra]

44. I'd be willing to go along with involuntary manslaughter

If he couldn't see her, he should have stopped and called for help. You don't know that he purposely gunned the bulldozer. He may have thought she'd moved away from it. If you don't want others to make up stuff about this incident, you should refrain as well.

[tom_paine]

59. I didn't say that, Cassandra

If you go back and re-read the offending line, you will see that I didn't assert that I KNEW that's what the 'dozer driver did.

What I was saying is that I get pissed at people who assume that it was NOT POSSIBLE for him to behave in that fashion.

I fabricated NOTHING!

[Cassandra]

68. OK, OK

My position on this has been pretty consistent and I get pissed off at the many people on this board who assume it was absolutely, positively murder, and then throw in some nasty comments about Israel being full of murderers, or an apartheid state, or possibly sideswiping all Jews and using this one incident as justification for whatever is bothering them at the moment.
Although it's possible for this guy to have done this deliberately, it's hard for me to think that he wasn't aware that killing an American would be a really bad idea. I think it's more likely that his anger at her interference made him careless about watching out for her. More "Where the fuck is she?", rather than, "I'm gonna kill her"

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dpt223]

23. Rachel Corrie

She was a peace activist that died in Israel/Palestine.

Her parents gave a speech here at the University of Maryland a few weeks ago (which I missed).

[Fenris]

2. If you heard it, he probably said it.

[oasis]

7. It just rolled off his tongue so easily.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Look Bush has made these statements, so now

they have permision...

[fryguy]

5. Novak waxing nostalgic for the 1940s?

[boobooday]

6. Frozen in AMBER

He must be one of the fossilized ones.

Japs?

Jesus.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Birthmark]

9. Frozen in amber? Hey!

Maybe we could extract his DNA and make a frog!!! It would be an improvement.

[shraby]

11. Novak IS a

racial slur. Look at him, he can't even talk with his eyes open.

[Bluebear]

10. "The yellow people" whose skin is different from "ours" maybe?

nt

[HootieMcBoob]

13. Everything he says is slurred n/t

[oasis]

15. He's been hitting the sauce more frequently since the Plame disclosure.

[evil_orange_cat]

16. Jap is a slur? Is "Brit" a slur then? when talking about British?

I think the PC police has gone overboard on this one. Japanese isn't a race anyhow... it's a nationality. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

17. Dictionary has it as "offensive slang"

Jap ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jp)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person of Japanese birth or descent.

[evil_orange_cat]

19. that doesn't make sense to me

We call Australians, "Aussies"; the British, "Brits"; What's the big deal?

[oasis]

25. Would you call a Japanese person a "Jap" to his face? That's the question

you should ask yourself.

[theboss]

64. I think I have actually

I never knew Jap was offensive. I thought "Nip" was the nasty phrase.

[Karenina]

27. It's OFFENSIVE.

You may be too young to "get it." I do not fault you for that.

[FemaleDemfromMass]

28. They called

the Japanese - Japs in WWII and they called Germans - Krauts (sp). It was used to degrade them, racial slurs. I remember my father saying those slurs often,(I hated it)he fought in WWII. It reminds me of the joke by Bill Cosby, I thought my name was Jesus Christ and my brother was Goddamnit. The men of that generation seemed to swear nonstop, and had terrible names for everyone who was not like them. This is only my experience though.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

35. Jesus

Heaven forbid your father should denegrate the people who tried to kill him :eyes:

[FemaleDemfromMass]

45. Well, to me

that was a problem since in the 70's he was still calling them that. I don't have a problem with Japanese people, sorry, but I don't.

[DoNotRefill]

49. Was he in the Pacific theater by any chance?

It's amazing the animosity that can be built up by people trying to kill you....

[Kickin_Donkey]

55. The big deal is, is that "Jap" is a racial epithet ...

on par with "nigger."

The words "Aussie" and "Brit" are not epithets and are not used as slurs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but "Jap" is an epithet even though it is a "shortening" of the country name. That's just the way it is, whether you want to play these "parallel" word deconstruction games or not.

You should educate yourself. It's amazing that there would be any question about it at this day and age, especially on a liberal forum such as this.

[Angelus]

56. Hey...I didn't know it was racist either....

No need to be so condenscending to people who didn't know. Geez.

[evil_orange_cat]

60. no, its easier to insult me than to hold a rational discussion...

I guess all online forums are the same in that respect.

[democracyindanger]

37. Hmm...

Lessee, every time I've been called a Jap it wasn't during friendly banter. What kind of cloistered life do you lead that you wouldn't know it's a slur? :shrug:

[goodhue]

46. Its long been a slur dating back to WWII.

[Kickin_Donkey]

54. What planet are you living on?

Jap is a racial slur on par with nigger. No more, no less.

And I would know. Obviously, you don't.

[Semi_subversive]

20. Why on Earth would

Jewish American Princesses shoot down an aircraft?

[JohnLocke]

21. LOL (nt).

[tom_paine]

39. LOL

Because it had a cargo of hairspray and glitter nail polish?

NOTE to eveyone who wants to flame me: I'm Jewish!

[kittykitty]

24. Well, persons of a certain age used that term all the time during

WW II. I was 4,5,6,7, then, and that's the only way they were referred to. Even in the newspaper headlines, "Japs Invade (whatever". Novak is of that age and I can see how it could slip out -- not that it is to be condoned.

[goodhue]

48. delete n/t

[theboss]

65. I think the NY Times headline was "JAPS QUIT"

I think this is getting overblown.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

32. Personally, I think it depends on how that word is used

If it's used to refer to the Japanese in general, it's a slur.

If, however, it's used by veterans to refer to the soldiers who bombed Pearl Harbor, attempted genocide in China, used our boys for bayonet practice, and tried to wipe them out, I don't have a problem with it. If Kerry, who was wounded three times by the NVA, wants to call them "Charlie," is it anything to sneeze at?

[Ms. Clio]

53. Hmmm I wonder what slur the Iraqis use to refer to the people

who bombed their cities, invaded and occupied their country, and tortured their family members.

[KittyWampus]

33. Novac's Language Is Entirely Consistent With Context He Was Speaking In

Japs being short for Japanese. And that is what the term would have been used in referencing World War II.

There is so much other truely onerous stuff to bitch about- especially with Novac.

[oasis]

41. I get it now, Bresnev and Kruschev are Rooskies, Putin is a Russian.

Novak should be aware of his obligation as a teevee commentator to not offend anyone by revealing a perceived racial prejudice. Most likely, he doesn't give rat's ass.

[KittyWampus]

67. Novac Is Stuck In The 50's Like Most Of The Rightwing Is

but when you're talking about a moment in the past, using a word that was commonly accepted doesn't seem racist.

Japs was burned into our Collective Consciousness in 1945, people who were alive then might not be up to sped:

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Angelus]

58. You got that right. n/t

[UTUSN]

42. Again? n/t

[goodhue]

50. Japanese American Citizens League (JACL) was outraged when used by Franken

http://www.jacl.org/current_prs/040224.html

For immediate release: February 24, 2004
Contact: John Tateishi (415/921-5225)

JACL Outraged at Franken’s Use of Racial Epithet
Urges him to apologize and remove term from book

San Francisco, CA -- In a letter sent today to Al Franken and his publisher EP Dutton, the Japanese American Citizens League (JACL), the nation’s oldest and largest Asian Pacific American civil rights organization celebrating its 75th anniversary, expressed our outrage and disgust of his use of the slur “Jap” on page 342 of his book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. The term ‘Jap’ has historically been used to dehumanize persons of Japanese ancestry, especially during World War II, and the JACL believes that the term – even as an abbreviation – is inappropriate in any context. The JACL urged Mr. Franken to remove the term from all editions of the book and apologize to the Japanese American community.

JACL National President Floyd Mori stated, “JACL recognizes that Mr. Franken often relies on hyperbole for comedic emphasis, but we find it unacceptable to invoke racial epithets in the name of humor -- or in any situation. We believe that Mr. Franken owes us an apology along with the removal of this term from his book.”

“I am appalled at and insulted by the cavalier manner in which Mr. Franken demeaned the Japanese American community,” commented JACL National Executive Director John Tateishi. “That word is charged with all the ugliness of the worst kinds of racial slurs hurled as verbal assaults by narrow-minded bigots. It should never be uttered, let alone published. Shame on Mr. Franken and his editor.”

The full text of the letter follows.


February 24, 2004

Al Franken
c/o Dutton Publishers
375 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10014

Dear Mr. Franken:

I am writing to express the outrage of the Japanese American Citizens League (JACL) and the Japanese American community at your use of a highly offensive racial slur on page 342 in your book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them where you express your concern about the “Bush Doctrine of preemption” because “it could be used to justify wars of aggression, not just by us, but by the Japs.”

Your use of the word “Japs” and its implications are an affront to the Japanese American community. I recognize that you often use hyperbole for comedic emphasis, but I write to tell you that it is unacceptable to employ such racial epithets in the name of humor, or in any situation. For a man of your political savvy, it is baffling to me that you could throw around such an offensive term – one that for Japanese Americans is charged with all the ugliness of the worst kinds of racial slurs uttered by narrow-minded bigots – with such ease. For Japanese Americans, the word “Jap” has all the emotion and invective that the “N” word does for African Americans, and your use of it is egregiously insulting. There is simply no excuse for a humorist to employ such a term and belittle the entire Japanese American community for a cheap laugh.

I am further perplexed that in this day and age any writer or editor, regardless of political perspective, would even consider allowing such a word to be uttered, let alone published. I can only assume that you are unaware that the word “Jap” is a slur which evokes the worst kind of racial prejudices and which Japanese Americans find highly repugnant. Historically, the word has always been used to demean and dehumanize persons of Japanese ancestry, especially during WWII when we were at war with Japan and 120,000 innocent Americans of Japanese ancestry were forcibly incarcerated at the hands of the American government in concentration camps.

As the nation’s oldest and largest Asian American civil rights organization, the Japanese American Citizens League has for seventy-five years dedicated itself to ensuring the rights of Japanese Americans and all Asian Americans against social injustice and to challenging racism and bigotry against all people in this country.

We believe that you owe an apology to the Japanese American community and to all fair-minded Americans for this insult, and we urge you to remove this term from all editions of the book.

Yours truly,

John Tateishi
National Executive Director

[neoteric lefty]

51. Novak: "Douchebag for Liberty"

[RichardRay]

61. My father flew from aircraft carriers

in the Pacific. He lost all but three of the 90 guys he trained with. He was aboard the Bunker Hill when it was hit by kamikaze pilots and the other 80 plus members of his flight group were killed; he escaped because he'd gone below to get the sun glasses he left in his berth. My brother and I are named for the two closest friends he ever had in his life niether of whom lived through the war. He still weeps when surprised by certain images on TV.

He has NEVER used the word Jap in my hearing, nor has he ever disparaged the Japanese people.

Novak can god damn well do the same.

[theboss]

63. Is Jap a slur when talking about WWII?

I mean, that's what they were called. My grandmother - who lost her first husband in the Pacific - still calls them that.