DU reader declares video NOT a fake. A technical analysis.

[Imperialism Inc.]

I've watched that blasted video of Nick Berg several more time today and I am of the opinion that nothing "funny" happened in the video. It is what it appears to be, that is Nick Berg being decapitated.

First, some technical info. This is nothing earth shattering and doesn't really do much more than confirm the obvious.

The video is in windows media format. Version 8 is the version reported (the "tag" is WMV2 and I am pretty sure that is the proper tag for version 8). I used ASFtools and a video editor to gather information and Windows Movie Maker 2 to step through the video frame by frame.

vid:
87 kbps (kilobits per second)
176 x 144
15 fps (frames per second)

aud:
8 kbps
1 channel
8kHz sample rate
16 bit samples

The above bit rates are only 1 of 4 "audiences" in the file. An "audience" is the same video and audio encoded at different bitrates (like different file sizes). It doesn't do an end user much good because once you download the whole thing you actually have to download more because you have all the "audiences". What is good for is a server , so it can give different users different file sizes depending on their bandwidth. The point being, no camera made this file it was edited at some point by software that created multiple streams.

I believe there are 2 cameras with clocks that are 58 minutes and 25 seconds apart(reasoning to come). Their footage has been spliced together.

There are several transitions in the video. Sometimes it is from one camera to the other and sometimes it is the same camera but the setting has changed.

I looked at just the times when the transition was from one camera to the other and I compared the time stamps. I assumed the camera that said 13:xx:xx was set to 1 pm and the one that said 2:xx:xx was 2 pm. It doesn't really matter since all I am looking at is the relative difference between the 2.

There are 3 times this happens. The last two appear to be a splice at the same moment (no overlap and no pause). The difference in the clocks is 58 minutes and 25 seconds BOTH of the last 2 times! I considered that significant in confirming 2 cameras.

The first time there is a transition the difference in the clocks is only 52 minutes and 9 seconds. This however makes sense because it appears they stopped and they started up again later so the other camera would have its clock running during those (apparently 6) minutes.

Based on that I saw no discrepancy in the time stamps.

As far the rest. The audio is way way out of synch that is true. However, windows media is a very crap codec for video and that is not a surprise at all. Especially since the very small file size seems to indicate outdated software and perhaps purposely going for a small file size (which kills the quality).

I didn't see any white guys. There was one especially pale guy in the tennis shoes but the other guys look olive complexion to me. The guy doing the cutting looks like he has a bit of trouble with the last bit so to speak and I think that is why the other guy steps in. There was no indication it had anything to do with his resolve.

I'm not really trying to weigh in on the who did it issue I just think it is pretty clear to me from multiple careful viewings that the video is not faked. Whoever did it , did it live in front of those cameras with no stage tricks or smoke or mirrors.

===
Here are the notes i took in the frame by frame:

(00:05.27) Transition: First frame of Berg
C1 13:26:24
C2 ?

(00:09.13/00:09.20) Transition: camera change
C1 13:26:27
C2 2:18:36

(00:20.07/00:20.13) Transition: Berg moved same camera
C1 ?
C2 2:40:32


(04:38.56/04:38.64)Transition: change camera during decap.
C1 13:45:47
C2 2:44:12

(05:17.84/05:17.91) Transition: paused (couldn't get head off?), same camera
C1 13:46:33 & C1 13:47:46
C2 ?

(05:24.77/05:24.83) Transition: change camera holding head
C1 13:47:52
C2 2:46:17

===
And the time stamp comparison that came from the above
T1
C1 = 1:26:27
C2 = 2:18:36

52 min 9 sec difference


T2
C1 = 1:45:47
C2 = 2:44:12

58 min 25 sec

T3
C1 = 1:47:52
C2 = 2:46:17

58 min 25 sec

===

On Edit: Almost forgot, lots of blood and realistic gurgled screams from what I saw and heard.

[JPJones]

1. Kick

[Terran]

2. Don't see anything strange about the lack of blood, eh? n/t

[schrodinger_I]

3. I noticed 2 things

1. The camera they used is probably high-end, probably a 3CCD camcorder, not an amateur model.
2. The weapon held by the bad guy on the right looks like an HK MP5 which fires 9mm ammo and is probably not the typical weapon used by Arab bad guys. I coul dbe wrong...These are just my observations....

[Imperialism Inc.]

7. From a quick check, the mat is stained with blood in a roughly

2 1/2 feet diameter, when they lift the head.

[leftofthedial]

50. severed head if Berg was alive

would have sprayed blood everywhere and continued purting until the heart stopped pumping.

[ArkDem]

107. If the head is no longer attached to the body it, seemingly,

would be difficult for the heart to affect it much.

[leftofthedial]

108. well, duh.

virtually all the blood comes from the body, not the head.

[lanparty]

121. Directional spray

Berg is face down when the initial cut is made. That is where the spray would have gone. I suspect we would have saw a LOT of splatter if the floor covering was not dark red.

I was initially under the opinion that there was an 11 hour gap based on an incomplete version. I wrote down all the start and stop times and it's pretty much all straight. Once the violence starts, the tape is live until the cut between the "leader" and big white hat finishing the job.

I do believe that the two different shots of "big white hat" holding up the head are actually the same action from two different camera angles. In fact, you can see him shift the head from one angle to another. He is showing the face to both cameras.

Additionally, a man in a gray jumpsuit shows up near the end of the tape. He is in a pose consistent with holding a camera.


What is clear is that this is not Zarqawi doing the beheading. That may be his voice dubbed over the tape, but thats not him. It makes no sense to mask yourself and than tell everyone you're Zarqawi.

I still believe that the setting of the tape is 100% consistent with the pictures from Abu Ghraib prison. Though the plastic chair thing is a bit over the top.

I still believe that the man on the far right is lilly white. I believe the tall man who finishes the job has a VERY dark complexion that is consistent with african descent. I believe that all of these guys are too burly and buff (and sometimes portly) to be your average Muja-hadeen fighter.

I still believe that this may not have been intended as a propaganda film. Rather, it was made in the same fashion as the films in Abu Ghraib. Over-the-top trophy films. This one just happened to be a snuff film. The "speech" could have simply been dubbed over to turn it into a propaganda film. This would account for the audio being 3 seconds of of sync (what codec is that sloppy????). They couldn't get the words of the "leader" to match the "Zarqawi speach". So they put it so badly out of sync that everyone would chalk it up to a technical glitch.

I hope everyone scrutinizes the Abu Ghraib photos to find those unpainted ceiling or "zebra tiles" seen in the film. This would place the event inside Abu Ghraib prison.

[Imperialism Inc.]

4. My point is, basically, that I think any ideas about the video itself

being faked are not correct.

It could be anyone who killed him I suppose but it seems like to me some were wondering if the video and killing might have been faked. I didn't see anything to indicate that.

I did comment on the blood(in my edit). And had meant to say more. There is blood spilling out and in a pool on the mat.

[Walt Starr]

10. Based upon the timing and the audio being out of sync

Could you see the possibility of Berg having been killed prior to his head being removed?

From my viewings, that is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. Possibly blunt trauma to the head to make it easier to remove the head, since the decapitation appears to be more for effect than as a method of execution. It took a while to saw through the tissue and remove the head, a task that would be much more difficult with Berg squirming which did not appear to happen in the video.

Edited to add: Based upon my experience butchering rabbits, blood spurts if you begin by cutting the throat. Blood flows evenly into a pool if you whack 'em on the head first to kill 'em before cutting the throat to "bleed" 'em before you remove the head completely.

[Selteri]

16. Audio Syncing Errors

This is actually typical for people who9 don't know what they are doing too much on higher end equipment.

This is something that has happened in one other controversial tape, the Osama Bin Laden interview where other translators said they found what was being reported from the transcripts to be inconsistent and in some cases to be unintelligible.

[Imperialism Inc.]

22. Honestly from watching the reactions of the face and body one

frame at a time in key parts... He is alive and having his head sawed off!

[bagnana]

33. good god I hope they killed him first.

[St. Jarvitude]

40. I'm not trying to make any judgements - I'm just curious

At what point in your life did you find yourself butchering rabbits? :scared:

[Walt Starr]

55. As a boy of twelve

We raised rabbits. When you want to eat the rabbits you raise, you must first kill and butcher them.

[SemperEadem]

53. it seems to me, for the blood to spurt, it would require

a beating heart to pump it out of the vein/artery--hence spurting in heart-beat rhythms.

If there was no pumping due to a stilled heart, seems to me it would ooze out and puddle, not spurt. It would also mean that he was dead before being decapitated.

seems to me...

[Walt Starr]

57. Precisely what I described about the rabbit butchering

If you don't kill 'em first with a whack to the back of the head, stopping the heart, the blood spurts all over the place.

[Jacobin]

5. Kick

[Selteri]

6. Confirmation - Unedited

I'm a video editor by trade and while the quality wasn't the best the sound delay was consistent with some equipment that I have seen people work with, there isn't any real sign of editing.

At least for the portion I was able to stomach watching, I admit that I turned it off after two sawing motions, I'd seen more than enough at that point. Past that point and including a small amount on either side for the fact that I reached to stop the vid I saw nothing to make me doubt that this was less than poor equipment and low bandwidth made video, in all likelihood for a quick upload.

[Sterling]

18. As an editor I disagree.

What equipment have you run across that created that kind of delay?

[Imperialism Inc.]

27. "Seeking" is optional in Windows Media 8. I mean come on this

is a crap codec. I have other WMV stuff that is crap like that. I have a Chomsky thing on "The Myth of the Liberal Media" and the synch is way off. Thats one of many examples I could give.

[Sterling]

85. I see you are saying it was a conversion issue.

That is certainly possible but I don't think it rules out the possibility of an edited tape either. I think they are both equally plausible.

[Selteri]

39. Time delay

Some of the 'high level personal' and 'low level commercial' cameras that were used at my school had a seperate sound recording for multiple cameras setup, the syncing for those pieces of equipment for sound was really easy to mess up when you DLd them into digital form if you weren't being careful. I don't remember the specific names of the equipment as it has been over 5 years since I had to work with them.

[Sterling]

87. Yes even final cut has up load issues with sinc.

Like I said to the previous poster that is a possibilty but the sync was way off. More than I am used to seeing due to conversion or uploading issues. Do we even know that the synce matches the track at any point. Maybe someone that has the file can try to resync it?

[Tansy_Gold]

99. Someone in another thread did resynch it and said

it matched perfectly.

I don't remember which thread it was, but the poster seemed to be knowledgeable. i wouldn't swear to it, because I'm NOT knowledgeable. I've played with final cut and a couple others, so I'm able to understand at least the gist of the discussion here, but I'm not an expert and would never claim to be one.

[lanparty]

122. Doesn't that seem a bit elaborate ...

Doesn't two cameras and an independent audio sync seem a bit elaborate for a snuff film?? Isn't it possible that someone deliberately dragged the audio track over to conceal the fact that the person on the video is only PRETENDING to speak.

Come on, it's very obvious from the way he flips those pages around haphazardly that they are only a prop. It doesn't take a very good actor to hold a clip-board. This guy was being sarcastic in his "paper-handling" skills. I suspect that the "speech" was dubbed over later. But since it wouldn't match up, they schewed the audio track of the murder so it would look like a technical glitch.

[Nadienne]

114. Maybe you can tell me

Whether or not this is plausible:

The beheading is real... but the video was intercepted and the part where they're reading from the paper was dubbed over...

The speakers on my computer don't work, so I don't know whether or not there were other sounds (the rustling of a paper, or whatever). If there were, is it possible that those sounds were left on while the speaker's voice was taken off, and someone else's voice saying something completely different was dubbed over?

[Az]

8. Which of course brings the question why 2 cameras

And why switching back and forth?

Incidently thank you for the excellent analysis.

But back to the 2 camera issue. Was there 2 camera work in previous such cases?

[Selteri]

12. Now we're getting into where I've already been questioning

Here is where I've been questioning, though that isn't was the video faked, it's why are there inconsistencies from previous tapes and actions by this same group.

Why the ski-masks, before they have shown their faces.

Why are two of them holding a standard US Military relaxation stance;

Why don't they mention he's of Jewish descent, with a name like Berg it's like having a sign over your head in that part of the world identifying your lineage.

Why don't they also use the fact there was a stamp from Israel in his passport as evidence he's a Jewish-American spy?

Why are their hands so pale, in two cases more pale than Berg was?

Why was the timing so perfect after this latest fiasco?

[stickdog]

115. Why did they cut from four terra'ists with the leader in a dark head

covering having trouble severing the head to a single terra'ist in a white head covering holding up a severed had that is hardly bleeding?

Where did the ostensible leader -- wearing a forbidden gold ring, no less -- go? Was he sitting in the Walmart chair, perhaps?

[lanparty]

124. The Jewish part is pretty relevant

I think that Al Queda would make it very clear that they were murdering a "Jewish Devil". Al-Queda tapes aren't marketed to the Western world. They're marketed to potential recruits in the Arab world.

And I agree, the fellow on the far right is obviously white. Conversely, I think the VERY, VERY tall man in the white mask is of African descent (irony?).

It would be nice to obtain some VHS quality film to analyze the whole ring thing. Also, the guy to the left of the leader has a very distinct watch on (just like OJ's shoes). If we can place it on the wrist of one of the Abu Ghraib consultants, we will find one of Nick Berg's murderers.

[Paragon]

9. I think the lack of responses to this thread...

...say a lot about how conspiracy theorists are a lot more interested in having their fun than finding the truth.

[Az]

13. So far most of the theories

have focused on other issues such as a hooded man identifying himself. Enough such inconsistancies and suspicion grows.

Whether the video was an edit or not does not seem to play to the central concerns. It is good to know this information though as it does limit the theories and thats always a good thing when trying to find the truth.

[Sterling]

28. Is there a break in the time code?

If so it can only be two things. It was shot with 2 cameras which possibly be noticable from differnet quality from shot to shot. Or there was time that went by that was not shot. Both would mean the video was edited.

[Imperialism Inc.]

30. Right that was my point. Limiting things to the worthwhile to look at.

I'm not saying I couldn't possibly be wrong but I feel strongly that I am not. I wanted to look at what I could , the actual video itself.

[Tansy_Gold]

15. LOL

Thanks, by the way, Middleman. You went above and beyond.

:thumbsup:

and a :hug: in case it gets to ya.

[Imperialism Inc.]

42. Thanks for the hug. It did get kinda rough .

:)

I'll just leave it be for now I think.

[Sterling]

23. I think the lack of response is for two reasons

This "debunking" is of a theory that does not exist. The questions here are not IF he was killed but HOW and by who.

I really think the debukers have reading comprehension issues. Maybe that is why it is so hard for some of them to follow the information?

I also think there are already enough threads going on this subject that this one based on a false premise is not that exciting.

[Imperialism Inc.]

32. I am not trying to "debunk" anyone really. Nor to get in anyone's

face. But, there are still in the thread I read, some who are questioning the killing and the video. Mostly people who say they haven't seen it.
Think of it as a service to the people that haven't seen it and don't want to. Or think of it as defining realistic things to look at.
Certainly wasn't trying to construct any strawmen.

[HuskerDem]

41. Bingo Paragon

I think you got it.

[bambo53]

11. Where can it be seen?

[Imperialism Inc.]

34. I'm not sure where it is on the web anymore. I have it on my

hard drive. I am sharing it on P2P network as well if you use ed2k?

[eridani]

98. Another source

We are all saddened and mortified by the beheading of Nick Berg, a young U.S. citizen working in Iraq. Despite all the media hype, the U.S. and Western media have prohibited us from seeing this video. There are now reports that the video may have been a fake to divert attention away from the stories of abuse of
Iraqi prisoners. Decide for yourself - Is the video a fake or a horrific account of brutality. To see the actual video of the beheading of Nick Berg, click on
http://www.nobloodforoil.org/berg.htm

Louis Posner
Director
http://www.Votermarch.org
http://www.NoBloodForOil.org

[JanMichael]

14. What about the absence of major blood from the cut?

Haven't seen it personally but my wife, a paramedic of 10 years, has become a regular watcher of this crap and she has commented that it appears that he was probably dead prior to the cut because it barely bled. I suppose a legit medical examiner should be able to clear that up in no time?

Just a thought.

[Selteri]

19. Blood Test - Agreed

I agree there, Special effects of that sort aren't in my specialty, I'm in aftereffects, editing and resyncing.

[Imperialism Inc.]

20. As I noted above there was a blood stain in a 2 1/2 foot

diameter on the mat. The mat it appears has absorbed it and it is dark colored as well so with the poor quality video it blends in some in a full motion viewing.

[Az]

26. Arterial blood pressure is quite high

You would expect a dribble. If the body was already dead you would expect the pooling. But a living body having their head hewed off would be a bit more dramatic. Doctors have already commented on this problem. There may well be an explanation. But it is still a valid question.

[RapidCreek]

77. It sure is...in the first four seconds after carotid arteris are severed

1 pint leaves the body.

RC

[Walt Starr]

63. That's more consistant with bleeding out an already dead organism

than with actually killing an organism by cutting through major arteries while the heart is still pumping.

I don't doubt Berg was killed. I do not doubt Berg's head was removed. All I question in this part of the thing is whther he was already dead or not before the head was removed.

Going back to the video again, it is entirely possible that the spurting was controlled in the position Berg's body is in when the cutting began (i.e. head down on the mat). You can't really tell, though, because the video is a bit chaotic at that point. If he died relatively quickly and the heart stopped, say within about three or four seconds of beginning the decapitation, then this would explain the lack of spurting blood.

[RapidCreek]

76. WARNING GRAPHIC The point is that a severed carotid

artery would result in gushing of a very large quantity of blood until the heart stopped and the body drained afterwords. If you'd like a scientific explanation go here. I was going to try and write one up myself but couldn't remember enough from college to do it very well.

Just to give you a quick idea of the pressure and amount of blood which leaves the body during the carotid jet phase take a look at the following photo.



Frankly it didn't appear to me that there was ANY blood leaving the victims body during his decapitation....and that seems rather strange. His neck should have been squirting blood like a super soaker, over everything in the immediate vicinity. Suffice it to say OJ's wifes heart managed to shoot blood seven feet into the air when he cut her throat.

Sorry for the graphic nature of this post....I figured it might be time to put an end to speculation on the finer points of carotid jetting.

RC

[Hobarticus]

123. No apology needed....

This was the first problem I had with the video. There'd be blood all over the damn place, and those guys would be doused. I've seen more blood on ER!

[Imperialism Inc.]

17. I'll add that each of the cameras is always shooting from the same

angle. What I called camera 2 (C2) was more centered and C1 off to the right of the frame.

[peacebuzzard]

62. Is it possible the photographer stopped the frame and moved

to the right, to get the shot? But then did the photographer come right back to the exact spot? Was a tripod used??????

[ibegurpard]

21. Great!

Some anonymous person on a message board tells me it's legit. End of story. I have no more questions. :eyes:
Meanwhile, CBS News is running a story about questions surrounding this.

[Imperialism Inc.]

36. Really? They are questioning whether the video was fake?

Got a link?

Edit: BTW, if it is this you mean then I did read it when it was in LBN. They aren't questioning his death and there isn't anything in the story that suggests his death was staged.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/11/iraq/main616842.shtml

I haven't been participating in any flame wars on this. I just did this for myself and thought I would pass it along. If you don't like it , I'm sorry.

[ibegurpard]

48. I apologize to you if your motivations are to get to the bottom of this.

There are WAY too many people frantically trying to shut down discussion of this topic when there are REAL and VERIFIABLE legitimate questions to be asked. Questions like why is the U.S. Government denying ever having Berg in custody when the Berg's have proof from a diplomatic official showing that he WAS in U.S. custody?

[oblivious]

70. I agree. That's what caught my interest.

At first I had absolutely no interest in the topic. Another murder out of 50,000+ in Iraq in the past year or so. But when I saw the number of people (most fairly new) rushing into DU to try to shut down discussion and investigation I realised there must be something wrong.

"The video is real. Al-queda did it. Or Al-zarqawi did it. Yes, he was dead, but he did it. No question about that. Just look at him standing there. It's him for sure. Anyone who says it isn't is a conspiracy nut, and I'm gonna leave DU if they keep speculating. I asked a friend of mine who knows about this sort of thing to examine the video, and he says it's just as the FBI say. What? The FBI are still examining the video? Well it happened just exactly as the FBI will say it happened when they finish examining the video. Now stop talking about it. Stop it. Get over it. Move on. There's nothing to talk about here. It's perfectly normal. We'll tell you what to think."

[Must_B_Free]

74. Not only that

but the people trying to derail the discussions appear to be trained in specific methodology.

From my observation, the predominant techinque is to post something ridiculing the initiator. There are usually several of the, and they "pile on" for a cumulative effect.

The 2nd technique is "I'm an expert, and I say ....".

I didn't and won't watch the video. The ancillary details tell you enough to conclude that what is being presented to us is a forgery of truth to some extent.

[Selteri]

109. Don't forget the charges of Racism

And don't forget to think it's anything but what you're told makes you a racist.

Yes, I agree, it isn't that I think the video is faked, it's that there are unanswered questions in the back of my head about the video, how they identified this guy and why his picture being shown now is light skinned when they were showing a very dark skinned version of his picture for quite a while.

The questions I have are over the things the government is saying that are contradictory to what is being said by the others, changing almost randomly as the story develops. I have no reason to believe he was dead or not, who knows, maybe the whole video is faked, but that is less important as to figure out why he was held by the Iraqi Police now instead of the claim it was US Military, why would he he was going to do one thing then tell another like that?

The questions keep coming ans the answers only keep making more questions about an illogical picture that reminds me of looking at a Picasso, the details don't make realistic sense and people who claim it's realistic have an odd view.

[Tinoire]

81. It's amazing. It's like 9-11 & PNAC all over again. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

24. And then the bullet zigged from Kennedy's neck to..

Connelly's chest and from there to Connelly's leg. Later it fell out, in pristine condition, on a stretcher where no one noticed it until several hours later. You see, nothing suspicious at all.


Oh wait, wrong thread.

[Q]

25. Are you just guessing...

...that two cameras are used? Or did you study the video signal and determine that the signatures are different?

[Imperialism Inc.]

46. No I did not examine the signal. But it is not pure conjecture either.

That during 2 transitions the difference in time stamp is the same is pretty telling I think. If it was the same camera at different times , having the difference be the same twice would be against the odds.

Second, as I forgot to mention in my original post, the angle the camera is shooting from is consistent. Camera 2 is always perpendicular to the wall. Camera 1 from an angle to the right of the frame.

[KAZ]

29. Well, I'm not a tin-foil type, but your explanation on the 2..

... cameras can be used for the existence of 2 cameras, or 1 camera. It seems like you kind of did some pretzel twisting to get to the 2 cameras. Purpose being??? Battery running low?

[Az]

31. What has me curious

Is why they thought they would need two cameras. Think the steps through. They want to film a beheading. Why not just one guy with one camera standing there filming? Who was the camera man? Francis Ford Coppela? Did he want to get the right angle for the mood?

They brought two cameras and expected to use them. Why?

[Selteri]

35. Two Cameras or Two shoots

Either there were two cameras or two seperate shoots, the first makes more sense, the second makes it seem more staged.

Yet there are things of the second camera having a different time index on it, thus making the assumption that either it is two seperate cameras or shot at least one hour apart.

Though that could also be set 11 hours apart.

Edit for mistakes on mental math.

[lanparty]

125. It's two cameras

I originally thought it was two events spliced together. But close examination of the timestamps reveals that the right amount of time elapses when switching back and forth that this is indeed two different cameras.

Two other points are convincing. 1) A man in a gray jumpsuit is seen to the right of the frame during the execution. One cannot see a camera but his arm and shoulder position is consistent with holding one. 2) The two segments of the tall, dark complexion, white hooded man holding up the head is actually two different angles of the same occurence. You can even see him holding up the head for one camera, then pointing it to the other camera.

[KAZ]

43. AZ, I'm at a loss...

... Seems to me, that based on the "Iraqi police" angle, that it could have been easily benn staged by an Iraqi/CPA type amalgam.

[charlie]

49. Probably to ensure

that they got usable footage, in case of fuckups. They can't do a retake if the tape jams or the battery dies.

[Az]

51. But then why the back and forth

From one camera to the other and back again? I don't have an answer for this. I can just note it and search for more clues.

[charlie]

60. I dunno either

One cameraman got fumbly and lost focus going from wide-angle to zoom. Maybe the splicing was an amalgam of the "best shots"? (I'm not even sure if there were two cameras)

[Q]

37. It's easy to check if there were two cameras...

...but did the thread author do so? It's a simple question really: have you checked the video signals of the various cuts to see if they're from different cameras? This is industry standard stuff...should be easy to verify.

[KAZ]

45. "checked the video signals" from a .wav or .ram?

How is that done exactly?

[Imperialism Inc.]

52. If you have a link to some software that can do that to the proprietary

windows media video format I'd be glad to know about it. But since only Microsoft and it liscensees can make the products it is easier said than done. Also, since this has been transcribed from the original camera file (cameras don't spit out video this crappy and certainly not with multiple "audiences" in the file sicne that would be a big big waste) it is likely the "signal" would not be there anyway.

I explained my reaosning in response to your post above. I invite you to all to recreate my experiment and you can confirm it for yourselves or debunk it .

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/moviemaker/downloads/moviemaker2.asp

It will let you go through frame by frame and confirm my timings. You can draw your own conclusions.

[Imperialism Inc.]

64. Also. You will notice the 15 frames per second.

Cameras don't shoot at 15 frames per second.
Is Iraq PAL or NTSC? Either way it is 23.97 or 29.97 fps not 15 so this video has been way altered.

[Must_B_Free]

78. 15 FPS is a rendering feature

15 fps is considered watchable, but uses half the bandwidth.

The out of synch is usually a result of the video capture stage. Although I have have DVD with on the fly encoding get out of synch. Is the time gap constant or does it grow? If it is constant that would be more an indicator of the software.

So far, none of the video "experts" on this thread has impressed me with knowing much about video on computers, with the exception of the original poster.

The "high end equipment" comment I do not agree with. Occasional out of focusness can result from using autofocus in a low light situation, but I don't think this was low light. Also when zooming in from further away and the sensor picks something closer it decides to focus on.

I only saw a tiny snippet of the video on CNN and it appeared to be very jerky.

All this is beside the point. The real questions are

Who stood to benefit from this with this particulat timing.
What did Berg see form the radio tower?
Who was the intended audience? Iraqis with computers and internet but still no electricity?
What the FUCK was Moussaoui doing with Nick Berg's email password on his computer?

I personally think Nick Berg was not a republican but a jewish Anti-Likud spy working for his father and was taking pictures from the tower with a telephoto lens.

A 26 year old from Philly does not typically come back from Africa and have his own radio tower company getting contracts in Iraq.

[lanparty]

126. He does seem "adventurous"

He went to some pretty weird places with no real itinerary. Why would a BUSINESSMAN spend thousands of dollars to travel to a place where he could be shot up with no contacts or real expectation that he would receive work???? Thats like booking a ticket to New York and then expecting to set up a meeting when you reach the hotel.

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[tnlefty]

44. Thank you for taking the time to do this and for posting it.

I can't claim to fully understand it at the moment, but I will bookmark it.

The audio being out of synch and the differences in the time was/is puzzling to me and was making me a little nutty trying to figure it all out.

Thanks again.

[Straight Shooter]

47. Follow-up question on whether death preceded decapitation

Walt Starr asked "Could you see the possibility of Berg having been killed prior to his head being removed?"

I'm wondering if it's possible to induce death by extreme pressure on the carotid artery. I've seen a lot of posts related to the impression that Berg did not squirm in those final moments before the knife was applied. I don't have medical/forensic knowledge to address the matter of the gurgling noise. People make strange sounds even after they've expired. It's always possible to dub them into a video.

Of course, if he were dead before decapitation, that begs the question: Why would al-Qaeda seek to lessen his suffering?

I don't trust what we're being told about this incident any more than I believed the Jessica Lynch rescue or the "Did I just see Air Force One" malarkey. I don't deny Nick Berg is dead; I doubt the identify of the alleged killers and the story of the circumstances that brought Berg to his final horrid moments.

[Iceburg]

68. Yes possible to induce death by extreme pressure on the carotid artery

as discussed in ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1592067&mesg_id=1593096

However, if he was killed in this manner he would not have screamed, gasped and gurgled.

The audio (of the scream et al) has obviously been over dubbed and very poorly at that, as the speaker is still reading and flipping thru his notes during "the scream" audio piece.

Your last question: "Why would al-Qaeda seek to lessen his suffering?"
... that's a good question

[Walt Starr]

69. I reviewed the video again and am convinced now he was alive

The positioning of the body with the head and throat in a downward position just as the video gets chaotic and the cutting begins could control the heartbeat spurting of blood, forcing it all down on the mat into what would become the pool of blood.

This would hold true so long as he died relatively quickly, within three or four seconds, which is consistent with the screams in the audio portion. The heart would stop and the blood would "leak" rather than "spurt with each heartbeat", which is consistent with the pool you can see once the decapitation is completed.

[Sterling]

88. At last an objective opinion!!!!!

Thx. I cant watch it myself. I saw the Chechyn video others have spoke of here and I know I don't want to see this.

[City Lights]

127. His face.

Is the look on his face at the end of the tape consistent with someone who had just been beheaded alive?

I would have expected to see a grimace, or some sign of agony, but didn't see anything like that.

[Spazito]

54. Excellent discussion and questions...

thanks all of you. I have many unanswered questions and when someone posts a possible explanation and others pose questions related to it, it helps to clarify some things.

[jk121764]

56. The video is authentic

First bear in mind that people are used to Hollywood gore movies where blood gushes out like a geyser from every cut. This does not happen IRL. The video is very poor quality but there is plenty of blood pouring onto the mat, which is close to the same color as blood. That along with the poor video quality makes it hard to show up. Berg is struggling against his captors, but both his hands and feet are bound and the several others are holding him down, one with his knee in his back. If both your feet and hands are bound, your ability to struggle is almost non-existant. Once they start doing the cutting the video gets very jerky (also attributed to the poor quality).

I also noticed that the video lags the audio by about 8 seconds.

[jk121764]

61. follow-up

Berg's cries for help, though out of phase with the video, seem very authentic. First, a paniced scream as the blade pierces his windpipe, then gurgling as his voicebox fills with blood.

Has anyone have any links to an FBI expert with regards to this video, and not some conspiracist crackpot?

[stickdog]

116. Blood doesn't spurt in real life throat slashings?

Do you live on Jupiter or something?

[leftofthedial]

58. yup, it's a bona fide wmv file alright

so what?

[Imperialism Inc.]

65. I thought the so what was the 58 minute 25 second difference

to be honest.
That is why I decided ot do a post and not just consider it worthless info like I assumed I would do. Plus watching it slowly reveals a lot more detail I found.

[peacebuzzard]

59. OK, It has been a coupla nites. But my view saw one angle..not 2

in other words, if there were 2 cameras, two angles....right? I only saw frames from one angle....what did you see? I did not record and have no way of reviewing......

[Imperialism Inc.]

66. 2 distinct angles. Timestamp always with the same angle.

[leftofthedial]

67. I don't disbelieve that it is a video

whether it was shot with one or two cameras is not important, I don't think.

I think it is certain that someone hacked Berg's head off, though an autopsy would tell us more about that.

My issues are content and explanation:

who are the people in the video?

did they actually kill Berg?

Was Berg alive or dead when the decapitation occured?

is the audio track bona fide?

That kind of stuff. Thanks to all who have reviewed the video and taken the trouble to document it. Quite impressive.

[peacebuzzard]

71. if it had 2 cameras. that explains the time stamp discrepancies...

and that now is held to be true....2 cameras....thus, it could have been filmed in real time, with the splicing to take place later....so, yes, it is important....2 cameras. Assuming the end result was of the original take.

[stickdog]

72. The guy sawing the head starts out wearing a dark burka and ends up

wearing a white burka.

Try again.

[peacebuzzard]

73. Gawd....so , the original needed a relief...he got tired....I seem to

remember that take....but I only saw it once. But I do remember the switch in colors, and thinking he needed a back-up for the job.

[stickdog]

79. This "take" puts the entire "continuous two camera shoot" theory

in severe doubt.

It's kind of like the day they changed Darrin Stevens on Bewitched. Whatever small illusion of continuous reality that existed was shattered.

[Imperialism Inc.]

102. I don't see how it puts anything in doubt.

(05:17.84/05:17.91) Transition: paused (couldn't get head off?), same camera
C1 13:46:33 & C1 13:47:46
C2 ?

They paused the camera for about a minute and yes, when it started again there was a new person at the head. But that doesn't put anything in doubt.

We still have 2 distinct sets of time frames. 2 distinct angles. The sequence of shots are chronological for BOTH sets of time frames. That they switched people around during a 1 minute pause doesn't alter that or call in to question 2 cameras.

No one who thinks I am wrong has explained any of it. Why are there 2 sets of timestamps? Both in Chronological sequence. If Berg was killed before he was beheaded , then did they just get "lucky" about the 2 sequences seeming to be correlated? How did they get Berg talking with both sets of timestamps if he was dead during one set of timestamps? Did they 1)move to kill him 2)call "cut" 3)get him up , put him back in the chair and have him calmly speak again (how can he calmly speak after the knife tackle?) and 4) Then really kill him lay him down and 5)stage the beheading (again getting the two timestamps to synch up... did they wait around watching the clock?)

[stickdog]

110. Oh, let's see.

I'd say that it was the work of expert editors using a bunch of shitty, disconnected footage along with some "after the fact" footage that was "matched" using the timestamp to "fit" your theory.

Kind of like Phil Spector's Beatles Let it Be album. With the same disconcerting results.

[Eloriel]

75. Oh, I get it now

That's all very interesting, but it doesn't answer the thread I finally figurd out you're probably responding to:

Doctor declares video a fake
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1592067&mesg_id=1592067

Said doctor didn't have a word to say about the video itself, but the beheading. He made the same point others familiar with how living mammals getting beheaded behave: they spurt blood until the heart stops which those of us who didn't view the video are told didn't happen in the video.

Nice job, but it answers a question (or several) that hasn't been asked that I know of.

[Imperialism Inc.]

80. It seems you've missed the point.

The difference in time stamps is the same during two transitions between cameras.

The odds of that happening on accident are huge.

So what does that mean? It means we are watching a live action shot. Nick is alive and sitting up and then tackled. Changes to the other camera in real time (which is the whole point of what I found when found the timestamp thing).

I have heard the squirting blood question but it doesn't explain what was filmed and there for our own eyes to see. It also doesn't explain why he is clearly struggling either.

And you haven't heard anyone meantion a time discrepancy in the tape as one of the "weird" things? LOL You can't be serious. I'm sorry but that part is too ridiculous. Read DU much? It is literally number 1 on several lists of oddities in GD active threads right now. Thanks for the laugh.

[Tinoire]

82. Oh buddy, your credibility just went down a few notches.

you're talking to the person who exposed PNAC and made apologists run, duck & hide with their tails between their legs.

I'll make some popcorn now.

Interesting, appreciable, analysis until people questioned you on it.

[Imperialism Inc.]

86. Her statement was compeltely laughable as I demonstrated in my

second response. Whatever her past achievements makes it no less laughable.

I have responded to questions and you'll forgive me if I think perhpas someone should view the video if they are goign to dispute what seems to happen in it.

Nothing is wrong with my credibility. But someone who "knows" the truth but hasn't watched it has zero credibility. And that ridiculous statement about the timestanp not being mentioned is still just that ridiculous nonsense.

[Tinoire]

92. Sorry. You're now becoming laughable

And you didn't demonstrate anything.

Your first post was thought-provoking, however, after that, when called upon by three really respected and proven people who are known not to be shills or apologists, you went downhill fast.

That's when it became laughable. Bad, bad move. I'll take the word of the 3 video experts in this thread who helped us bust 3 other stories over yours anyday. Sorry but that that's the way it is.

Just letting you know know now that that was a serious faux-pas. Maybe if you lowered your horns a little you could be an asset to this place; unfortunately most of us are going to be extremely weary of all these experts suddenly popping up to help us see the light when we had no trouble seeing in the past.

[Imperialism Inc.]

94. What are you talking about?

I did something for me. I spent over 2 hours on it. Watching it. Making sure when the camera changed the positions were the same by the people. Watching frame by frame in the difficult parts.
I posted the results.

Then people came in and started attacking me. Lower my horns? You can't be serious. I was thoughtful in my responses. And even after that people kept attacking me more and worse the more I responded thoughtfully. You should look at the history of the conversation perhaps.

No one offered any credible response to my post. The person talking about "signals" obviously knew nothing about video. Is that what you talkign about? Who refuted me? Because I missed it. All the people with video experience confirmed not denied what I was saying.

I enjoy your posts. But I don't need your approval on how I handled myself in this thread. The people that came in to attack me posted little of substance if you will check Eloriel's post she was rather snotty to me so I guess I don't understand why I need to be an angel back.

I did take the middle road for a while. But I'm not afraid to fight. They want to come in here with their "I didn't watch it but I just know" stuff and spew venom at me I'm going to let 'em have it now.

[Tinoire]

95. Just lower your horns that's all.

You'll find, as I did, that the same people you're butting horns with today could easily become your best allies.

Anyway, like I said, I liked your initial post- thought it was appreciable with a lot of good work/points in it.

Just lower your horns. Trust me, as someone who butted heads with Eloriel, on this one ;)

We're all on the same team right?

Tomorrow, I'll re-read your thread because to me, as a non-techie, it brought up some valid points. Sorry for sounding cranky- I'm not cranky at you personally, just cranky in general this week. You can tell me to lower my horns too; I know I need to.

Just stand your ground, don't be this defensive & you'll be fine.

Your work is more appreciated than you think.

Sorry for you that you are joining at such a brutal time- it gets better.

All that said.. Good-night and thank you for sharing your analysis.

[Imperialism Inc.]

84. Current GD thread:

A rational discussion thread re Berg murder video
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1584046

1. As stickdog and others have pointed out, the single most damning piece of evidence is the date stamp on the video. At the moment Berg is seized to be murdered, the date stamp switches from 2:44 to 13:45; there is also a gap of about a minute; and a jump back to 2:44. This is incontrovertible evidence that either 2 cameras were used, or that the actual beheading took place eleven hours after the killer took out his knife to begin the beheading.

===

A qucik look at my notes will reveal this 2nd idea to be nonsense. There is footage of Berg talking with both timestamps.

[Sterling]

91. I think you need to explain your theory better.

Right now I am having a hard time understanding exactly what you are trying to say.

[Imperialism Inc.]

93. That it wasn't a fake murder.

It was real and happened in real time. That is about it. But apparently that is pretty controversial.
There were 2 cameras but no long delay or staging after he was already dead.
That is all really. I saw some people saying over and over that it was fake and I felt they were wrong from my first two viewings. So I thought I would investigate the number one damning piece of info(the timestamp). According to the example I posted and others throughout the day. What I found was that there doesn't really seem to be a discrepancy.
I guess I don't even understand why it "needs" to be fake. I mean I'm the most left leaning guy I know and apparently my political credibility is in question because I don't think it is fake and would prefer if folks are going to get the wild theories going to maybe devote equal time to checking out the video a little closer. Most of my friends think I stepped off the conspiracy express and I disagreed with this one so I thought I would be brave and point out the flaws to that part of it.(if it ended up being flawed , which it did.)
I realize there will probably be several people who hate me now but , oh well. Tomorrow I'll go back to watching Chavez and trying to figure out what Bush is going to do to fuck it all up down there before he leave office.

[bobbyboucher]

83. Lots of newbies trying to tow the line,

apparently.

[truebrit71]

89. LOL!!! @ bobbyboucher..Funnee!!

Back on topic for a moment though..I'm sorry but I'm still not clear on the whole two camera thing...Why would they shoot from the same angle?..isn't the point of a second camera to get a different angle than the first? If it is about insuring that the battery doesn't die, why have them running at the same time? Why not have the second one 'on stand-by' so to speak? It doesn't make sense to run two cameras at the same time from the same angle unless you are PLANNING to do some editing later on...That also means that there were at least SEVEN people that were present while this was happening...

Doesn't add up.

[Tansy_Gold]

111. "same angle" syntax.

When MiddleMen said the two cameras were at the same angle, I'm pretty sure he meant each one stayed at a consistent angle, i.e. shots from Camera #1 were always at a 90-degree angle to the subject, shots from Camera #2 were always at a 105-degree angle to the subject. These are hypothetical angles, of course, but only to show that each camera was consistent.

As to why to have both cameras running at the same time, from what little I know of filming live action, one uses both cameras, or all available cameras, at the crucial moment because if something goes wrong with one of them, there's no opportunity to pause, grab the other, and resume. The shot can't be recreated, and if lost, it's lost forever. I believe MiddleMen put forth this explanation earlier as well.

[Q]

90. Yes...we're getting off track here...

...the more important issues being WHO did the killing and why.

- There is no doubt that Berg was killed...at least this is what we must believe unless an autopsy or the parents say differently.

- And it probably doesn't matter if one or two cameras were used or whether he was alive or dead when decapitated.

- In viewing the video...there is a figure (in gray attire) to the extreme right that seems to be holding a second camera.

- But we're looking at the trees and can't see the forest. There is the 'coincidence' of the killers using the same type of chair and color of walls used at the prison. What are the odds that a 'terrorist hideout' would have these same things in common? Speculation: could it be that Berg was never released from custody and was killed in a room at a prison by those he trusted?

- The only other inconsistencies I can see: the 'masked' man that started the execution is not the one that finished it. There was no arterial blood spurting when the arteries were cut. This could be explained if the victim was given drugs that lowered his blood pressure...but it's unlikely.

[Imperialism Inc.]

96. The long and short of it.

And then I'm really goign to bed this time.

Any theories that postulate Nick Berg being dead before his head was cut off must now account for the timestamp. Must account for the fact that not only would thye have to stage the same position around hte fallen Nick but they would have had to synch up the time on the camera to produce the result I found. And you have to account for how both timestamps appear while Nick is talking. Now maybe it only points to a more sophisticated set of criminals? who could do such a thing?

I'm not pushing that theory but you do at least have to account for what I found in your theories. And I hope if you can you will verify what I said for yourselves. Watching it in slow motion like that objectifies it somewhat so it isn't has hard as it sounds.

Have a good night.

[Q]

97. And a good night to you...

...but as I said before...we shouldn't get to caught up in the details of when or how he died. God bless him...but he's dead either way.

- The important thing to look at now is the surroundings and the MEN who killed him. Where did the murder take place? Who murdered him and why?

[Frederic Bastiat]

101. Thanks n/t

[eridani]

100. Is there any way to tell the date of a video?

A statement in the video was dated after the body was found. That may or may not say anything about when the video was made.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C6F93CE0-8FCB-425E-BD40-672B38CF68B1.htm

ööA body found on Monday by US military patrol along a roadside over the weekend was identified as Berg's.

The website said Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a top ally of al-Qaida leader Usama bin Ladin, was the man who cut off Berg's head. The statement in the video was signed off with Zarqawi's name and dated 11 May.

[Imperialism Inc.]

103. One piece of information I forgot to give last night.

It really isn't that big of a deal but, media files can (depending on the format) have a stamp indicating language.

This file has all the audio and video stamped with "Arabic(Oman)".

This would seem to make it likely that at some point this video was on an arabic language version of windows. It is possible to purposefully set the language , but that is not usually one of the main options and your software just marks the language based on the language your PC uses. It seems more likely that it was on an Arabic language PC at some point.

This of course doesn't mean much, as it could get to an Arabic language PC in any number of ways.

[Walt Starr]

104. One note about Arabic Language Windows

Your analysis is probably true, but anybody with an MSDN subscription can load a copy of Arabic Windows any time on any machine.

[Imperialism Inc.]

106. Right. That's why I didn't mention it last night. I had quickly decided

it wasn't really that important.

Or it could be shot by just about anyone and then given to a person with Arabic language PC to do the titles and editing.

So it doesn't tell us much.

[stickdog]

118. Yes, any putative fake video would be sure to miss this critical detail.

:eyes:

[CWebster]

105. I do not know anything about video equipment

but as someone involved in the visual arts and in tune to visual ques, I can tell you that there is something unnatural in this presentation. Berg's mouth moves like a cartoon--his features show no animation. It looks like bad fabrication to me.

[DUreader]

112. I Declare Nothing Of The Sort!

Are you calling me out?

hee-hee

[bhunt70]

113. re: blood spurting... the video of the russian/checnian

getting decapitated didn't have blood spurting and I am pretty damn sure by the expression on this guys face and the sound that he was alive while it happened.

It's gruesome and closeup and horrifying.

[Walt Starr]

117. Have you got a link to that video?

I've seen the Daniel Pearl video, but not the chechen video.

[Q]

119. I'm not sure anyone has claimed the 'video' itself was faked....

...but we're glad you did the background work on this.

- Have you noticed the second camera in the video yet? The person is dressed in gray and on the right side of the video frame. You can see the camera he's holding for only a second or two.

[teryang]

120. Could someone comment on this

Why would the clock stop in a video camera? I know the times can be faked, but assuming that they have not tampered with the time codes how does one contend that the time coding has been stopped? I think the more rational inference is that the six minutes has been edited out.

I am persuaded by the military time, regular time comparison but why is it approximately one hour off?

I think that this is probably not significant but I don't comprehend the explanation that the clock stopped. The clock is always running. You can reset it to any time you want but it continues to run in any case.

[William Seger]

128. Kick

Thanks, MiddleMen. Nice work.