Senate Armed Services Committee Meeting....Thread 4

[proud patriot]

Thread 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1575399&mesg_id=1575399

Thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1575937&mesg_id=1575937

Thread 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1576282

[Failure]

1. BushLite...I mean Liebershit's up....nt

[Tinoire]

2. Lieberman. ARGGGHH!

just setting the tone for thread 4 ;)

[SayitAintSo]

3. Holy Moly.... Holy Joe's up..... hold my nose .....

Bush and Rummy apologist ....

[soup]

4. Lieberman asking about other prisons in Iraq.

on edit - oops - spellcheck. Lieberman

[displacedtexan]

5. Let me get this straight...

NO ONE gave any orders

NO ONE knows who was in charge

NO ONE knows if any pertinent intel was squeezed out of the prisoners

NO ONE knew about or gave the actual orders to move prisoners in order to hide them from the Red Cross

EVERYONE agrees that the Geneva Conventions are good

EVERYONE agrees that all persons responsible should be punished

NO ONE knows who exactly is responsible.

... and now for the Holy Joe Show. Yawn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Have you heard of Nuremberg

this needs to end up in an International Court

Truly, sickening

[0007]

17. Drum roll please.........

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Gong))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Please take your seat Joe

[Malva Zebrina]

21. it is the "know nothing" Bush administration

they should be impeached for "knowing nothing" or for at least failing to determine or even pursue finding out something--

[LittleApple81]

6. LIEberman.... puke!!! repuke!!! eeewwww eeeeewwww eeewwwww.

[Oddman]

36. My feelings exactly

A Democrat repuke!

[proud patriot]

7. oops well I guess it's over

perhaps I should of left the other one open :shrug:

[LittleApple81]

11. It is being transmitted on CNN and MSNBC. n/t

[proud patriot]

13. got it ...thanks

:hi:

[TeeYiYi]

27. Is it being streamed anywhere? ...n/t

TYY

[BeHereNow]

14. Naw, we just needed to find

our barf bags- Joe and all...
BHN

[soup]

15. no. Ya did good. CNN is covering.

not looking forward to the commercial breaks, though.

[Tinoire]

16. House talking about the same thing! re Rumsfeld's resignation

over this scandal...

Rumsfeld's arrogance etc...

[nadinbrzezinski]

Thanks Patriot

I missed part of this,,, and unfrikcing unbeliavable, C-SPAN is breaking away...

Oh and Joe, shmoe did you get many angry letters over the weekend? He is actually asking questions...

[proud patriot]

10. I just clicked to MSNBC and they still have it live

:shrug:

[proud patriot]

31. Your Welcome

:hi:

[Tinoire]

8. WHAT?! C-SPAN breaking away??! --- House / asking for Rummy to resign

What's going on in the House?

Damn. The house is discussing the same thing (not grilling anyone). George Miller (-D) up calling for Rumsefeld's resignation now followed by Tom DeLay.

Damn... I don't know which to watch

[TeeYiYi]

25. Well I'm screwed. I don't have CNN. However . . .

. . . this (House) might be good. (D) Rep. George Miller is jumping on Rummy. Calling it a rush to war and a failure. Improper preparation for war ie equipment etc. Calling for Rumsfeld's resignation. :)

Ooop it just got boring. Tom DeLay blaah blah blllllssakfsaldkfhsaf.

TYY

[0007]

26. A few are calling for Rumsfeld resignation's - Tom DeLay up now

TALKING NONSENSE

[TacticalPeek]

45. C-span's agreement with the House requires it.

Whenever the House is in session, they must cover it. Sometimes they will split-screen it with something else, such as during a vote while no one is speaking from the floor.

Hence, their coverage is completely manipulable by whoever controls the House schedule, as was done here by convening at 12:30 pm apparently (the busy beavers!).

Or, that's just a coincidence. :evilgrin:

[Failure]

9. why does'nt someone clarify, that the detainees in the photos

were not 'terrorists'


failure.

[proud patriot]

19. Joe's asking that very question now

:think:

[Failure]

22. yup...nt

[BeHereNow]

35. That's what blows my mind!

They are Detainees- suspects who remain uncharged
with anything! CIVILIANS like you and me.
And yet the all the FUCKING average dumb assed
American has to say about it is,
"Yeah, but look what they did to our guys."
What WHO did to our guys?
Do they know? NO!
Let's just randomly seek revenge-
any "Brown" person will do, doesn't matter
if they are guilty of anything.
Simply mind numbing- the IGNORANCE of
the people, FREEPERS in particular, in this country.
BHN

[Failure]

46. nice rage...I feel like grabbing a freeper and shaking it...nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Holy cow? Joe must have gotten way too many letters

over the weekend...

Speaking off, according to Geneva the processs is simple. you hold a hearing where you decide whether they are or not to stay, and if they do, register them at that moment into the system. Joe should have done his homework a tad better...oh and the hearing has a lawyer present

[Solly Mack]

20. very EPW's in the system..primarily left-those whose pose security threat

...uh..uh..what a crock of shit. Hell, someone yelling america go home would fall under "security threat" in such a case....we've seen the standards set for security threat in this country...

they are holding people they have no business holding is what this boils down to...

[soup]

23. not entitled to rights of Geneva convention -

- but we're giving it to them. - Lieberman.

Closing statement now by Cambone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. There are degrees to the rights under the convention

1.- POWs right rights to visitation, packets, contact with family... and the minimum standards of housing of the capturng force, as well as food.

2.- Prisoners, visitation and contact wih the family, standars of housing in the occupied contry

But torture is not allowed anyhwere

[Failure]

24. Oh...can i get you a tissue? baby...nt

[Solly Mack]

28. Thanks everyone!!!!!

over for now....

[soup]

29. Warner wrapping it up.

Now onto the spin.

Thank you all for sharing your input here.
Some great (as usual) insight.

[Tinoire]

32. The House is discussing Abu Ghaibr

well intermingled with other issues but the Dems keep bringing it up.


"Denial of reality" from Republicans (Steny Hoyer (-D) re tax cuts etc but he started his tirade with Abu Ghaibr.

This could be interesting too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Stayinig with CNN for the moment

this is not going well in some ways, thought they are sticking to
the few bad apples

[stoptheshrub]

34. tell you who's heads I want to see roll including rummy...

(if it is clearly proven they were informed of the abuse months earlier) the names of those members of congress who ignored the fathers letters. I have yet to hear those names and probably won't because of a vast right wing cover-up to protect their rears. But if you as a member of congress were informed as to the autrocities that occurred against the Iraqui's and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, then you ought to be placed in the chopping block with the military brass. It is completely inexcuseable as a representative of the people to completely ignore such a blatantly sadistic abuse of human being. CAN EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. IGNORING A PROBLEM MAKES YOU JUST AS LIABLE AS THE ONES CREATING IT. MORE SHAMEFUL CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS.

BY THE WAY IF ANYONE HAS HEARD WHO THEY ARE PLAES RESPOND AND LET ME KNOW.

PEACE OUT

[Tinoire]

38. I've been trying to find out too,

I'm as angry as you are about it which is why these tears of crocodile outrage leave me rather cold. It seems, with a few timid exceptions, that this will be a bi-partisan cover-up. I really hope I'm wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. If they do

this ends in WW III

And at the end of the day we don't win, those participating in the coverup will end up in front of an International Military Tribunal... I hope they realize that...

Of course that is very much so a worst case scenario

[stoptheshrub]

43. supposedly the father of one of the accused was...

on pmsnbc last night and said who they were. I have been scouring their website for quite some time but can find no link to it. The little bit I heard on the newsbrief thing on the station I listen to and what i saw in NYTimes is that it is a list of repukes and dems. Man I hope its not true but they ALL need to be held accountable. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. I'll update if I find it.

[stoptheshrub]

44. OK now I have to go get sick, limpballs...

supposedly has taped show from pmsnbc last night. My mother, who I dearly love BUT dearly disagree with on many things, just called me gloating (she always does when she has something on my line of thinking). Usually she's wrong but this time I am deathly afraid. She says limpballs played a clip off of pmsnbc where the father of one of the accused listed the names of people in congress involved. She says only one repuke (there has to be more than one of those bastards) but 16 good guys (or i hope they are still good guys) the three that jump out at me were:

Hillary
Kennedy
Byrd


Please someone find a link for me that says this isn't true. I know that limpballs emblishes a lot but when there's audio its hard to ignore. Please tell me it is not true...

[PaDUer]

48. check this!

http://216.87.159.41/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=3019
Local Soldiers Charged with Abuse


Monday, July 28, 2003

The parents of two Lackawanna County soldiers accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners of war claim their children are innocent. The army is not releasing any information about the attack which took place May 12th. But the soldiers` families are and they want you to know what they know. Jim and Diane Canjar`s 21 year old son, Specialist Tim Canjar and three other soldiers from our area are already charged with abusing iraqui p-o-w`s. 5 other soldiers are under investigation. But Tim`s dad says the charges are bogus, "believe me, my son`s not a bully. If he acted, he acted in self defense along with the rest of `em. They`re not gonna jeopardize their civilian jobs over some incident like this." The soldiers who stand accused are all from the 320th Army Reserve Military Police Unit out of Ashley. They were transporting a busload of 44 injured Iraqi p-o-w`s when things allegedly got out of hand.
Tim`s father says he has enlisted the support of U.S. Congressman Don Sherwood and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and has requested an investigation, "These are pow`s. These are hard core murderers, rapists, killers...and you`re supposed to handle them with kid gloves? I know for a fact my son was attacked and he acted in self defense." That`s what Lynn and Jim Edmondson say about their daughter, 24 year old Sgt. Shawna Edmondson, "Iraqi prisoners had attacked 2 of our MP`s and Shawna went to help. They got the prisoners quieted down and next thing you know, she`s charged with attacking prisoners." The Edmondson`s were shocked to hear it, "Not my daughter. She works at the "U". As a public safety officer. She`s handled drunks. She`s never hurt anybody." The four soldiers who`ve been charged also include Master Sgt. Lisa Girman of Pittston along with another member of their unit from Florida. A week-long military hearing is set to begin August 27th to determine whether the soldiers will face a court martial. Until then, the four accused soldiers have been separated. They are being held in a warehouse in Kuwait.

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[mistertrickster]

39. What was that movie? "A Few Good Men" with Jack Nicholson and

Tom Cruise?

"The TRUTH? You CAN'T HANDLE the truth?"

The crux of the movie was that everything that happens is the responsibility of the CO. This is, after all, the F***ING ARMY we're talking about here, not kids at camp.

On one hand, you've got the option that the commanders knew and condoned what was going on (very bad) or that they had their heads up their butts so far that they didn't know what was going on (almost as bad).

I don't know how that's any kind of a defense for a military leader whose first job requirement is to know what is going on . . .

Maybe somebody in government should watch that movie.

[TeeYiYi]

41. Is this being streamed live on the internet anywhere? ...n/t

TYY

[SayitAintSo]

47. I WAS streaming from the CSAN site but it JUST locked on me

[readmylips]

42. Googled Stepehn Cambone....

...Despite -- and perhaps because of -- his close relationship to the defense secretary, Cambone is apparently widely disliked in the Pentagon. Neoconservative writer Tom Donnelly reported in the The Weekly Standard that “fairly or not, Cambone has long been viewed as Rumsfeld's henchman, almost universally loathed -- but more important, feared -- by the services.” (3) And the Washington Monthly reported in late 2001, “It would be hard to exaggerate how much Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and his top aide Stephen Cambone were hated within the Pentagon prior to September 11. Among other mistakes, Rumsfeld and Cambone foolishly excluded top civilian and military leaders when planning an overhaul of the military to meet new threats, thereby ensuring even greater bureaucratic resistance. According to the Washington Post, an Army general joked to a Hill staffer that 'if he had one round left in his revolver, he would take out Steve Cambone.' Cambone's reputation in the building hasn't improved much since Sept.11, but Rumsfeld's has been transformed." (4)

When asked by the The New York Times (April 11, 2003) if he thought hard-liners in the Pentagon had politicized intelligence to support arguments for the war in Iraq, Cambone responded: “Any policy maker has certain views. Policy makers are where they are and doing what they do because they have a view.” Further, he said, “The politicization of intelligence, I think, happens when intelligence is thought to be more than it is. And what it can be at best, is a summary judgment at a given moment in time based on the information that one has been able to glean.”

Cambone’s work on missile defense issues extends well beyond his participation on the influential Rumsfeld missile threat commission. According to the Carnegie Non-Proliferation Project, “As Director of Strategic Defense Policy, was a major contributor to President Bush's decision to refocus the SDI program in 1991 and developed the concept for a global protection system. He was a member of the high-level group appointed by the president to discuss the global protection system with Russia, U.S. allies, and other states. In addition, he was responsible for addressing and resolving policy issues that arose in the compliance review group (DOD organization to oversee compliance with the ABM treaty) and the strategic systems committee of the Defense Acquisition Board, which is responsible for approving DOD weapon system acquisition.” (7)

Before he joined the Bush Sr. administration, Cambone worked for SRS Technologies, a defense contractor. SRS recently received a $6 million contract to provide administrative and management support for the Missile Defense Agency. (8)

----------------------
I'm sure,like cheney, Cambone is filling his swiss bank account on behalf of the tax payers.

[bobbieinok]

50. check out this outstanding thread by P Adder--Cambone links

at one of posts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1573064

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. Lt General William Boykin, Major General Geoffrey Miller,

Papis(ms) Meyers, Rumsfeld and Bush*! that is the chain that did this ......these are the bastards totally responsible for the Abu Ghairb prison torture orders....these are the crimals ....mark my words!

Major General Geoffrey Miller he was the one responisble for setting up the conditions that allowed torture at Abu Graib prison. he said "i'm gonna gitmotize Abu Ghairb" Mjr General miller reported directly to Boykin on Abu Ghraib and Boykin only