How many Liberal Christians do we have here?

[xultar]

Poll question: How many Liberal Christians do we have here?

So, are you a Christian? No matter what you feel about Christianity or the state of Religion in the world today do you consider yourself a Christian.

Personally, I've considered Catholicism, Judaism & Islam. I am looking for a place to belong. I am quite spiritual. I'm pretty angry now though at the state of religion as a whole in the world.

But just right here, right now. I'd like to know how many Liberal Christians there are out there here @ DU.

[libbygurl]

1. What do you mean by "Christian"? My feeling is that

Catholics aren't considered Christians. Besides, the connotation of the word "Christian" has become so extremely perverted by the fundamentalists, it makes me shudder to read or hear it.

Am a lapsed Catholic.

[WillyBrandt]

I think Catholics would be included. It's only fundies who make the Xian

Catholic distinction.

[nini]

3. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Catholics are Christians as the entire religion is of Christ and his teachings.

Those who think differently do not understand the history of the Church.

In other words.. don't let the fundies define what a Catholic is.

[libbygurl]

12. Can't recall exactly who said it, but he opined that...

...the more people shout to the world and declare themselves Christian, the more unChristian their actions are. (Wish I could recall who it was - heard it on a TV show, I think.)

With all due respect to the the Christians who, unlike the sheeplike fundamentalists, genuinely behave and act according to Christ's teachings, I prefer to call myself Catholic instead of Christian. The term just gives me the creeps anymore.

[nini]

44. I know what you mean, BUT we always need to set those morans straight

I won't let them get away with that Catholic/Christian bashing crap with me.

I believe any non-Catholic, non-fundie Christian should never let those freaks embarrass the rest of us.

and you are completely correct in that they spew their Christianity so much they actually act contrary to what they say they believe.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. May I scream with you?

I'm an atheist, but this "Catholics are not Christians" BS makes me do triple back somersaults and become purple with yellow polkadots.

[nini]

70. Yes, you may!

and thanks! :-)


freaking fundies.. urgh

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

71. OK... ahem. Cough.

YYYYEEEEAAAAAAAARGHHHHH!!!!!!

[nini]

72. LOL

reminds me of Dean's primal scream

:-)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

73. I have some influences

Dean, Janis Joplin, James Brown, Lou Ferrigno...

[onehandle]

19. Catholics who back Bush are suckers.

The fundies who back Bush would slaughter us in a second.

Lapsed or not.

In High School, I went to a Baptist youth function for a girl I was interested in. I was cornered by a group of fundies who tonguelashed me until I said I was saved.

Later that night she tonguelashed me. Well, part of me.

Maybe I should keep that story to myself.

Well, I am pretty lapsed.

[Finch]

45. Nice

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. All hail onehandle, whose name just took on a completely new meaning! (nt)

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

2. yeah, well.....

your poll has only one question.

I dont know If id call myself a liberal Christian.

I dont go to church, but I was raised in the Catholic faith, and I still consider mysefl a Catholic, which would be Christian.

[bryant69]

4. I am a liberal christian

And I refuse to let Right Wing Religious Fundamentelists define what Christianity means.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[The Screaming Icon]

6. Not me, but...

The Christian label is pretty useless in its current incarnation. For example: I have a friend who calls herself, with extreme pride, a capital-C Christian. But she is really "nondenominational," which in itself is a term hijacked by the charismatic Pentecostals. So, screw all of these semantics.

So love thy neighbor and don't kill anyone. The rest is just details.

[libbygurl]

13. Amen! n/t

[Kahuna]

14. "Christian" means, follower of Christ. Just because some..

people usurp the term and don't follow Christ's example, like Dumbya, Don't knock Christianity. A lot of people claim to be things everyday that they aren't. Also, if you read the Bible, even in the old testament, one of God's constant complaints was about hypocrites.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. i'm a liberal pagan

I like safety in numbers. :)

[skooooo]

25. Another pagan here!

High five! By the way, the goddess told me Bush is screwed in 04.

:kick:

[Nikia]

7. It depnds on what you want

I am Christian, of the Protestant persuasion. I don't have a church right now but I have gone to a number of Protestant churches. My mother's is UCC (United Church of Christ) which is fairly liberal as far as social issues go. Many Protestant denominations are less centralized so there is often a lot of variations with churches. For example, some Methodist churches are rather conservative and some are liberal.
I had a number of friends who are Catholic, including one who converted to Catholicism (and not because of marriage or anything). There are people who do find spirituality in Catholicism but I find it too dogmatic myself. My husband who is Episcopalian, which is probably the closest Protestant denomination to Catholicism, likes the ritual and set program of worship.
You might want to go to some different kinds of churches to learn more. Good luck.

[Selwynn]

8. Well other "christians" seem to keep saying I'm not one so.....

...I guess I'm just a guy who loves God. :D

[Indiana_Dem]

9. I consider myself a liberal Christian although

I'm not a part of any organized religion. I consider myself extremely spiritual and believe in Jesus as my Savior and that he is the only way to salvation. However, I believe many are being deceived by organized religion and are being told alot of lies. There is alot we don't know yet and I don't think we'll know until we meet Christ on the other side. I consider myself a born-again Christian but believe in separation of church and state and stand behind religious freedom, abortion rights, gay rights, that evolution should be taught in science as well as creation in sociology or any study of culture in society in the schools. The words "one nation under God" weren't originally in the pledge so I believe it shouldn't be there now, besides, we don't all believe it so why should it apply?

So basically, this sets me in my own little corner because I believe in the spiritual world of Father, Son, Holy Spirit, angels, fallen angels, powers, principalities, and spirtual forces and everlasting life, etc., yet I don't attend any organized religious services or have fellowship with other believers. God gave us a choice to serve Him or not and that is the way it should be regarding separation of church and state. No particular religion should be imposed on others, God never forced anyone to follow Him so why should anybody or any other organization? That is why I consider myself a liberal Christian.

[Snow]

10. I don't belong to an organized religion - I'm a Quaker....

hehheh. sorry. Quaker inside joke. anyway, while I belong to a religion that has its feet firmly planted in Jesus's teachings and christianity in general, for my spiritual life jesus is not central nor do I consider him unique in his position as son-of-god. To me, saying he's unique in his attainments or characteristics diminishes humanity, and there are too many religions that enjoy diminishing humanity. I suspect I'm off the scale on your 'liberal christian' question.

[TreasonousBastard]

32. Skip Mendler...

http://www.well.com/~smendler/bellows/

a Quaker comic and humorist, once put out bumper stickers saying:

"Quakers, a religion of one."
and
"Friends, be all that thee can be."

and got yelled at by certain elements of the faith saying that parodying Army commercials gave the military some legitimacy.

My meeting thought they were a hoot, but, well, there's always some people...

Yes, after the "organization" of the RSOF, one fits right into the Democratic Party.

Here's another idea of his I stole:

[KittyWampus]

11. Grew Up Presbyterian. Now Study Kabbalah

with a group called Builders of the Adytum and am thinking about joining the Unitarian Church.

[noahmijo]

17. <~~Catholic

Despite what the fundies say about us Catholics are considered Christians. The word Catholic is actually another meaning for the word "Universal" in that we are required to honor and respect all religions in that despite different practices we're all brought closer to God through our beliefs.


To me this includes those who don't wish to belong to a certain religion (atheists, ect) because I believe you can still be a good person without having to worship anyone and I personally respect someone who may not believe in God, but still helps their fellow man over some loud mouthed fundie who spends more time preaching hate for homosexuals.

[libbygurl]

22. I know many atheists who are more "Christian"

and ethical and moral in their actions and behavior than some screaming, shrill and hate-filled "Christians".

(edited for completion of thought!)

[noahmijo]

47. Sadly to a certain extent I do too

I have a wide degree of personality types among my friends, and I have some goth friends who really are the nicest guys. Of course on the same note I have lots of Catholic friends as well mostly the old school types you know fellow Hispanics and Irish types who mostly just want to be happy, be good people and have a good time. I think I'm one of those types.

[leesa]

15. Why do people have to keep doing this? Don't we have enough christianity

shoved down our throats 24/7?

[Snow]

18. Chill, leesa - who's shoving anything down your throat?

you can just change channels, you know.

[polmaven]

30. Did I miss the rule

that says we MUST read each and every thread right through to the very end?

WOW, and here I have been skipping some threads I didn't think I'd have a lot of interest in!

Silly me. I guess I'll be banned now, huh?

[DieboldMustDie]

36. No! We have a lot of pseudo-Christian neo-fascism shoved down our throats.

Read the Gospels and you'll find they have very little in common with the teachings of the religious right.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. Liberal Christian here, though I

go to a fairly conservative (in some respects) church because my husband is not accepting of some liberal views in "his" faith.

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[alcuno]

20. I don't refer to myself as a Christian. I am a Catholic.

Therefore I couldn't vote.

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. I'm a liberal Roman Catholic.

:hi:

[ButterflyBlood]

23. I'm a liberal Christian

:hi:

[Jane Austin]

24. I'm a Christian and a Liberal

Fortunately for me, I was born into the Episcopal Church, so I haven't had to search around for a church home.

Like the Democratic Party, the Episcopal Church is a pretty big tent.

There are really conservative parishes and really liberal ones.

The one we attend here in Austin has all kinds of services on Sundays, and people go to the one where they feel most comfortable.

At the 11 am service, for instance, Rite I is used and most people wear "Sunday go to meetin'" clothes.

At 5 pm, on the other hand, it's Rite II, it's a folk mass, people come as they are (even if they were at the lake), and there are gay and lesbian couples, mixed race couples, kids and adults, the halt and the lame.

Lots of music, with monthly healing services. Very friendly.

[TreasonousBastard]

34. Morristown,NJ has...

two Episcopal churches-- the straight one and the gay one. They don't talk to each other much, but big tent it sure is.

Except for that mess with, well, you know...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. I'm one

Raised Lutheran, became Episcopalian for cultural reasons.

Today I picked up a copy of the quarterly Episcopal newspaper for the state and learned that our bishop and other clergy and clergy from the other mainline denominations, as well as some of the Jewish and Islamic groups, spend a day at the state capitol every year lobbying for justice.

As one of them remarked when a fundamentalist legislator said that the poor should be helped exclusively through voluntary charity, "Charity is all well and good, but God demands a just society."

I wish this article were online, because it's a side of the church hierarchy that you don't hear about often. It sure didn't make the newspapers, and if it did, it didn't get the coverage that every poisonous word of Pat Robertson gets.

So don't think that the mainstream religions aren't out there fighting for good causes. That article is just one example that I know of.

By the way, I hate the way that the fundamentalists have hijacked the term "Christian." Yes, Catholics ARE Christians, as are Episcopalians, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, United Methodists, Presbyterians, and a host of others.

If a fundamentalist argues with you, just tell him/her that fundamentalism is a late nineteenth century American invention and that the majority of Christians in the world take a different approach.

If a fundamentalist asks me if I'm "Christian," I say "yes," because that's the truth, and if they want to assume that I'm their kind, that's their problem. It keeps them from hassling me.

If a secular person asks me, I say, "Yes, I'm a liberal Episcopalian." This usually keeps them from running screaming in the other direction.

[Jane Austin]

27. The fundies sure have hijacked the name "Christian"

but not without the help of the televised media.

Anytime there's a spiritual issue to be discussed, they bring on Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson to speak for Christians.

I just want to pull my hair out. No way do these Philistine, form-over-content, rule-maiking, judgemental hypocrites (those last two words are pretty funny together!) speak for me or most of the sincere Christians I know.

Jesus did say, after all, that you should pray in your closet and not shout "Lord! Lord!"

I wonder what Bible the fundies are reading that they missed that part?

[chefgirl]

68. The Old Testament

If you listen closely to what they say, to the particular scriptures that they most often cite, its almost always The Old Testament.

I went to Catholic Schools all my life, and I was afforded an extremely liberal education and have always been grateful for it.
We were taught to respect ALL religions, because there are many pathways to God.

To my mind, if the fundie whack jobs want to rely on, quote, and live by the precepts in The Old Testament, fine by me, but they can hardly claim to be Christians. After all, the root of Jesus' message (whether you accept him as divine, or a prophet, or just a very enlightened man) was that we all need to have a PERSONAL relationship with God. That is, that the self righteous, outwardly pious facade people were so frantically trying to display at the time, was taking people further and further away from God. Paying the temple for the privelege of entering, exchanging their rural monies into temple coin, sacrificing animals, etc...were only behaviors meant to appease the high priests and did nothing to bring people to a better understanding of God.
This is exactly the form of worship that the current day fundamentalists practice. They call themselves Christians, without regard for the fact that what Jesus taught (and in fact was crucified for) was a departure from 'fundamentalism'. This is the essence of the difference between Judeaism and Christianity; Old Testament vs. New Testament.
So, they can call themselves Christians all they want, but people who truly follow the teachings of Christ, recognize them as nothing more than present day Pharisees.


-chef-

[freetobegay]

28. Does a Gay Liberal Christian count?

[Jane Austin]

29. Why wouldn't it count?

n/t

[galadrium]

35. Perhaps he has been subjected to the big right-wing lie

That gays are "sinners" who should renounce the way they are.
Sounds like you have heard this crap one too many times.

[freetobegay]

39. Thank you

:)

[against all enemies]

31. Big tent.

Come on, I think there's room for everyone. If they're here they are not big Jerry Falwell fans. I hope.

[NEOBuckeye]

33. I'm a Liberal Christian

And proud of it!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

37. I'm a liberal Christian

I'm an anti-death penalty, pro give more to the poor, anti-corporate society, pro leave people the heck alone and let them live their lives for crying out loud, pro civil rights for all liberal Christian.

Too many people think being Christian is ONLY defined by believing in Jesus and that he was the Son of God and died for our sins. But there is far more to it than that. A Christian FOLLOWS the TEACHINGS of Christ. I dare to say I don't think he'd approve of the actions and beliefs of most of his "followers" today.

And by the way, God bless the WHOLE WORLD, no exceptions.

[Jane Austin]

40. God Bless the Whole World

Amen to that!

Every time that smarmy, pseudo-serious Bush would speak before and during the Iraqui war, he would intone God's blessing on the United States of America.

And every time I would scream at the TV, "God bless all the earth and all His children!"

And sometimes tears were streaming down my face because it was Iraqi women and children dying, not "United States of America" women and children dying.

All things considered, we're pretty blessed already.

[Jane Austin]

42. And furthermore . . .

. . . Bush needs to be reminded that God doesn't wear an American flag on his lapel.

[NeonLX]

77. Some guy in Sweden...

...started a website called "America Bless God" awhile back. That made a whole lot more sense to me than having us demand of God to bless one particular hunk of geography, presumably over & above the rest of the world...

I don't think God sees the political boundaries we humans have drawn upon the Earth...

[Deja Q]

38. Depends

While I accept without second thought that Christ did die for us, I don't like labeling myself as being part of a group who does very unChristian things in Christ's name.

[xultar]

60. That is where my head is as well. n/t

[UrbScotty]

41. Right here!

Amen!

[Marymarg]

43. Episcopalian, here.

Love my inclusive, liberal church.

[galadrium]

46. I was raised Episcopalian

Maybe thats why im such a big liberal, that and being educated.

[shekina]

48. Lib Christian here

I'm a lib christian. Believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died and rose again for our salvation. But that's just my beliefs, feel free to have your own.

[xultar]

49. OK so what to call a new Liberal Christian group? Suggestions anyone?

the Log Cabin Republicans as a name for a group...SUX!!!

If we were to start a Liberal Christian group what should it be called?

[Jane Austin]

51. All God's Chillun?

:)

[KittyWampus]

52. All God's Children... That's Good, Jane Austen

but then I've always been fond of your work. ;)

[Jane Austin]

53. Well, thanks but

I'm not quite Jane Austen, just janeaustin. :)

I see we are fans of the same retired General, too.

[JanMichael]

50. This Atheist certainly appreciates the Liberal DU'ers.

They've got their work cut out for them combatting the fundies that lurk, and preach, in so many churches/mosques/synagogues/etcetera.

Good luck and <insert diety> bless!

[Ladyhawk]

54. This atheist would appreciate it if you guys would call the fundies...

...on their hypocrisy.

I hope you can do it. Make them look like the bigoted idiots they are. Is there any way you could start a liberal version of the Christian Coalition?

Check out http://www.liberalslikechrist.org . I've chatted with the fellow who runs that site and he seems to have his shit together.

In the meantime, MoveOn.Org (a secular liberal organization) has more members than the Christian Coalition. I haven't liked some of the decisions they've made lately, but I'm still a member.

[xultar]

55. When you call them out oh they get so Crazed with Anger, not unlike the

Satan. The fundies turn red, they foam at the mouth, their :eyes: glaze over.

[Kimber Scott]

56. You might want to investigate Unitarian Universalism

Just a thought. I enjoy it.

http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/

[xultar]

59. Thanks.... I'll give it a look C n/t

[IronLionZion]

57. Catholics are Christian

anyone who says otherwise is an asshole

[xultar]

58. TThat's not very 'christian' & that wasn't the point of my post. Some may

not know. Consider that to be an opportunity to open a dialog with that person. Help them to understand.

HOWEVER,

The fact that Catholics are Christian isn't in question. Nor is it the focus of the post. Do U consider yourself to be a Liberal Christian REGARDLESS of demoniation?

[IronLionZion]

61. of course, I'm a Catholic liberal

well moderate-liberal. So I'm a Christian moderate-liberal.

I know i responded to your post but it wasn't meant for you. It was for anyone who thought Catholics were not Christian. It makes me really mad when people say that.

[xultar]

64. I can understand that. n/t

[DeepModem Mom]

62. Another Episcopalian here --

As someone wrote upthread, individual Episcopal churches vary, but many are still quite liberal in their theological views and commitment to social causes. Often there is discussion at a pretty high level in church forums, and opportunity to join other parishioners in community involvement. Services can be quite beautiful. If you're looking for a place, as you say, you might try visiting some Episcopal churches.

[Beam Me Up]

63. Wasn't Jesus WAY LEFT of liberal?

That's certainly the impression I've gotten from the New Testament.

Jesus said a rich man can't get into the Kingdom of Heaven any more than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle. He also explained that the Kingdom of Heaven is within us. (This latter may be apocryphal but is recorded in the Book of Thomas).

Since by this it can be concluded that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is not a "place" but a state of Spiritual Grace, it follows that what is meant by "a rich man" isn't merely one who has a lot of money or material things. Rather it represents an egotistical state of mind and feeling that says "my life, my worries, my point of view, my family, country, my this, my that, my, my, my" are ALL more important than anyone or anyTHING else.

Having this attitude, as everyone does to an extent greater than they might like to admit, my attention is naturally turned away from or tuned out of this Grace, the "Kingdom of Heaven." Repeatedly Jesus pointed out that to enter this "Kingdom" one must be willing to DIE to my old way of being and BE REBORN in a new state.

Few who call themselves Christians, even those who claim to be "born again" can claim the ecumenical Grace of which Christ spoke.

[Jane Austin]

74. Heck yes, he was way left!

He was always having to fight the establishment, and if you think about it, he did it in a way that everyone, educated or ignorant, could understand - by Parables. They are stories, picture stories, which makes them like dreams in that they can be understood with a little thinking no matter the age, station, country, race, century or other condition of the listener.

My favorite is the Parable of the Vineyard. In this one, a vineyard owner hires workers in the morning to work all day in his vineyard for a set pay. (One denarius) Then he went out several more times during the day to the town square and and hired more workers, the last being hired toward the end of the day.

At the end of the day he directs his foreman to pay everyone their denarius, starting with the last hired. (And the last shall be first).

By the time the foreman got to the people who had worked all day, they expected to be paid more because they'd worked longer. They grumbled when they were paid the same amount, and the owner asked them if he couldn't pay what he wanted to, and were they jealous of his generosity?

Well, the point of his story is that even if you come to know God at the very last moment - - or even later, on your next try, perhaps :) - - your reward will be the Kingdom of Heaven.

BUT, most people can't get past the "injjustice" of paying everyone the same in the vineyard to get to the great news that it's never too late!

This is why the fundies concentrate on the Old Testement: they got there first, so they want to be more right, more good, more saved than everybody else; and the New Testement is just full of things like this parable where Jesus himself says "Not so fast, Hawkins."

If I ever got Jerry Falwell in a room, it is this Parable I would want to argue with him about. :)

[NeonLX]

76. Bumper stickers on the back of Jesus' donkey cart...

"Subvert the Dominant Paridigm" and
"WWID?" (What Would I Do?)

[skippysmom]

65. Liberal Catholic

I consider myself a Christian, but I know many people who don't think I qualify.

I think there's more of us liberal Catholics than you'd think, though some Catholic leaders insist on aligning with the fundie right wingers. Sadly, they are pushing me -- and many others -- away from the church.

That's what makes me consider becoming Episcopalian or UU.

[dryan]

69. Democrat and Roman Catholic

I am a Roman Catholic and I am also a Democrat. FYI - I can't believe that someone would think that a Roman Catholic is not a Christian???? This is very antiquated thinking! This is like saying that a Sunni is not a Moslem!!

[NeonLX]

75. ELCA Lutheran here...

...AND a progressive, liberal, pacifist, civil libertarian...

I don't identify at all with the in-your-face, "do as I say, not as I do" right wing zealots who pass themselves off as Christians though.