Why repeal the Patriot Act?

[ACK]

You are talking to someone who is not savvy about the issue.

You are talking over dinner so no eighty page linked pdfs.

What are your talking points?

What are the truly horrible points about this bill?

Why should it be repealed?

What if the person is a bit more learned on the issue and says, "It sounds horrible but I heard a talking head on tv say that has not led to one accountable instance of abuse? Is this true?"

Thanks ahead of time.

[ixion]

1. the unPATRIOTic act is unconstitutional

That is reason enough. Such a document should never have been able to make it into the books in America.

But you asked for points...hmmm... where should I begin?

Violates 1st and 4th amendments. Pretty much nulls out the 4th, and makes exercising the 1st dangerous, because:

Remove a US citizens right to due process, to counsel, to know the charges against them, or even if there ARE charges against them.

Weaken Posse Comitatus. That is, it gives the Military the potential to be used domestically.

Oh yeah, NO OVERSIGHT!

Isn't that enough?

[Thrill]

2. One Word

UNCONSTITUTIONAL

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. Check this out

http://www.michaelmoore.com/takeaction/issues/patriotact.php

[leftofthedial]

4. we should not repeal it until after the neocons are all dealt with

use it to get rid of the traitors, then repeal it.

[Vickers]

5. If John Ashcrost is *for* it...

...that's reason enough for me to be *against* it.

But seriously, I've never seen the reason for it. All of the things that terrorists can get in trouble for (murder, various charges of conspiracy, bombings, etc.) are already against the law.

It's really just a tool for law enforcement, and it is misused all the time.

There are certain parts of it that are OK (for instance, the permission to wiretap a "person" as opposed to a single phone line) but the bulk of it (say, 90% or so) is chipping away at basic rights.

[DBoon]

6. Not even being used for the announced purpose

busting drug dealers, etc.

Not being used against terrorists - just a way to expand police powers in general.

[hang a left]

7. It is the things that may come to pass that we should be worried about.

It is further erosion of our constitutional rights as citizens of the US. We are only seeing a few of the misuses now. For one the little word "or" being placed between the words terrorism and money laundering. It's being used in narcotics cases. They are starting to use it in areas they said they would never use it in. It has been strenthened with the insertions of parts of Patriot II. They can now investigate bank accounts and purchases without you knowing it.

Why do they want to know what your reading? That one there is real scary. Basically they want to know what you know. Now think about that one for a minute. Why would they want to know what you know?

IMO it is a tool that will be used for future control of the population. To be able to identify who might give them trouble. To me it is laying the foundation for implementing some kind of "new" order, or police state.

I proudly don my foil for every occasion.