William Cohen kicking butt.

[The Backlash Cometh]

And it's Bob Kerrey's butt! With a side-slap to the Republicans. Cohen just said that the Clinton Administration had to sustain a 78 day bombing of Kosovo without Congress's support, to prove the point that it was unlikely that Congress would have supported a war against Afghanistan to get bin Laden. He mentioned that Bob Kerrey was one of the Senators who constantly argued with Clinton on this issue and in the end, Kosovo was successful.

Then Kerrey said that it proves his point that Clinton could have bombed bin Laden without Congress's support, Cohen reminded Kerrey that they had allied support for Kosovo. Before 9/11, there was no allied support for bin Laden. And we all know now what happens when you invade a country without allied support, don't we? France gets the last laugh.

P.S. Kerrey sounds like a dweeb.

[underpants]

1. Cohen is very smooth

and very polished.

[ROC]

2. Bob Kerry is tough

but he is agood guy and knows about this subject.

[Spazito]

3. Bob Kerrey is an asshole!

He is in a pout from way back when he didn't get his way regarding Kosovo and is going to make anyone from the Clinton administration pay for it. Kerrey, in NO way, knows as much as Cohen.

[mobuto]

45. Kerrey is not an asshole

Why are you siding with a Republican (Cohen) over a Democrat (Kerrey)?

[Bandit]

51. Bob Kerrey is guilty of War Crimes as well

It has pretty much been established that he is quite guilty of war crimes during the Vietnam Conflict. Cohen may be a Republican and Kerrey may be a Democrat but one has honor and the other does not. Zell Miller says he is a Democrat also. Do you wish to sing his praises?

[leyton]

And is yet another Republican to criticize Bush! n/t

Whee!

[judy]

4. I have a question about the hearings...

In the short time I have been able to listen in (Powell, mainly) I heard the Cole mentioned quite a few times.
Has ANYONE mentioned John O'Neill, and the fact that BushCo and whatsername Bodine told him to STOP investigating ??

Just asking...

[dryan]

7. Cohen

Secretary Cohen is going to speak here at UCF tomorrow at 1:00 PM. Free and open to the public!

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Thanks for the info.

*

[plcdude]

14. How can I have

him come to Oklahoma State for a talk?

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. I think John O'Neill is in a lock box along with the

Afghanistan pipeline data.

[moondust]

5. Bob Kerrey is a dreamer.

With virtually all the world's support, full military engagement, and unlimited funding we still do not have bin Laden.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. Yep, that IS a glaring flaw to the argument that we should have ordered

a military strike during Clinton's term, isn't it? It's beginning to look like Clinton's method was better. Use human intelligence to strike at bin Laden without declaring war, and go to battle stations whenever you hear chatter in your own homeland.

[Old and In the Way]

6. Bill Cohen, one of the Republican good guys.

Hated by Republicans, of course.

Bill showed his love for this country when he voted to impeach Nixon...sorry we don't have more Republicans willing to be non-partisan today.

Proud that Bill served as my Representitive/Senator from Maine.

[supernova]

8. Didn't invade Iraq in 91 either

Cohen also whammied Kerrey with Bush I not invading Iraq in 91 without support either. Heh.

I am lovin' this!

[BOHICA06]

9. An aside ....

Kosovo has been about as successful as Iraq - neither is stabilized and both are filled with collateral damage (dead civilians). Politics will push us out of Iraq, while we'll still have troops in Kosovo for years to come.

[Beetwasher]

10. Bullshit

Only recently has there been more unrest in Kosovo and guess what? It's because our attention if focused on Iraq that we can't do anything about it.

How many US soldiers were killed in Kosovo? Repubs always hate that question...

Kosovo was a major, unmitigated success. No amount of spin can change that.

[BonFiyah]

22. Damn Right!!!

What?? thats all... just
Damn Right!!!

[BOHICA06]

29. The unrest is because of what ...

we have 2 - 3,000 on the ground there with the French and Germans and Italians and a whole bunch of others (37 or 38 different countries) for a total 39,000 and the unrest is because of our being distracted in Iraq.....

Unmitigated success ... the Serb civilian population wouldn't want to see one of our failures.

[lancdem]

33. Milosevic is in the Hague because of Kosovo

and we went in there with NATO behind us. It was nothing like Iraq.

[Beetwasher]

34. No, the unrest is because of trouble makers

making trouble while attention is focused elsewhere, that's NOT deniable. It will also be controlled and stopped fairly soon I'm sure. But if you think that the trouble makers aren't taking advantage of the fact that the world's attention is focused elsewhere and seeing it as an opportunity to start trouble, then you're at best naive.

The atrocities were STOPPED when we sent troops into Kosovo. In Iraq, the atrocities STARTED because we sent troops in. See the difference? Somehow, I don't think you'll get it. Kosovo was a success in which we acheived our goals. Iraq is a failure that achieved nothing.

How many US troops died in Kosovo? Answer that, smart guy...

[BOHICA06]

43. 2 in the operation if I'm

not mistaken - an Apache Helicopter on a night approach to it's base. Zero in combat - but then again we didn't engage in ground combat in Kosovo. We bombed the bat-squeeze out of them.

Nice Ad Hominem - your bluster covers a weak style of discussion.

Whether the innocent are shot up-close or bombed from above 15,000ft doesn't matter - their definition of success differs from yours and mine.

[Beetwasher]

47. Only if you redefine success

does it differ.

We achieved clearly stated goals in Kosovo. We stopped a slaughter with very, very minimal loss of US soldiers and civilians.

Compare that to the shitfest known as Iraq. How many civilians were killed in Iraq? You don't know because they stopped counting. I wonder why? What are the goals? WMD's? Regime change? How about exit strategy???? You say we'll be out because of politics, I say bullshit. You should do some more reading. We've built 14 heavily fortified military complexes. What do you think we're going to do with those? Give 'em to the Shiites?

We also had major international support for Kosovo. Can't say that about Iraq.

I'll say it again, since you ignored it: In Kosove, our military went in and successfully STOPPED a slaughter. In Iraq, our military went in and STARTED a slaughter that continues unabated. Deal with it. You're monkey's a pathological loser and a fuck up.

Bluster this. When you talk bullshit, and you do, I'll call you on it.

[supernova]

15. You want to pull out of Kosovo?

Then you can kiss our European friends Goodbye.

[Spazito]

18. When there has been 5 years of relative peace, then one MIGHT..

be able to compare the two and that would be AFTER the UN and NATO have been given a concrete and controlling role. Till then, Iraq in no way resembles Kosovo.

[Cocoa]

21. are RWers even making that argument?

I'm sure they salivate whenever there are ethnic killings in Kosovo, so the lustre of Clinton's and Clark's success is reduced, but as far as I know they haven't gone down that road yet.

[shoopnyc123]

12. Cohen's TURNING IT HONEY! eom

[NewJeffCT]

16. summary please?

for those of us trapped in cubicles where we can't listen to the sound on our PCs.

[lancdem]

19. I'd love some details, too

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. He's now talking about the reason why they went after the pharmecutical

company. Said there were traces of a questionnable substance; bin Laden had somewhat funded the pharmecutical co. and it was run by someone who was also questionnable. So they bombed it and faced criticism for their decision, even though he felt it was the right one at the time. He's showing how they were very selective about their targets, given the hostile situation back home.

I think earlier he also said that Clinton never used the military for a wag the dog situation. (I'm paraphrasing on the wag the dog, but he said basically the same thing.) Every action they took under Clinton was responsibly made and the correct thing to do.

[Spazito]

28. Cohen is doing a very good job, imo, and I am not a fan of his...

but he took Kerrey head on and it was great! Cohen brought up the republicans accusation of Clinton using the "wag the dog" premise when he went on the attack re Bin Laden and was very strong in saying that was NOT the case. So far, I have to say, he has been impressive.

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. Sudan is being discussed again.

People including Sandy Berger remember the headlines about the unsuccessful strike -- economist said that they had created a hundred bin Ladens, and how did that affect you from your determination to get bin Laden?

Cohen says he regreted that one person was lost (died). They tried to minimize collateral damage by striking at night. But the criticism had no deterrence to their will to get bin Laden. Their only concern for further strikes was: probability of success, likely to achieve their goal.

Roemer (Democrat) brings up that the military is not the only weapon. Only One quiver. Now asking what we can do to in Indonesia, or to reach out to moderates to improve situation.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. Cohen's reply:

To stop terrorism, it requires engagement. How we conduct ourselves in Iraq while we're there and Middle East conflict. Energize the process. Also must engage Indonesia, militarily, educational.

[AlCzervik]

20. Partisan hearings

I started watching at 6:ooam wescoast time and i think this hearing has turned into a big partisan bullshit fest. Bob Kerrey needs to stop fing grandstanding on the same point over and over and over again. William Cohen has been clear in his answers which is more than we will get from Darth rumsfeld. Holding and quoting Claekes book is not helping anything wither, just a dog and pony show with no winners. Although i'm glad Cohen clearded up the Pharmy co bombing that has been fodder for the rightwing radio networks.

[NewJeffCT]

23. what did he clear up

About the pharmaceutical factory in Sudan?

[AlCzervik]

26. Asprin Factory

congress and Newt were all railing about that bombing as a wag the dog, Cohen spoke up about it and said that Clinton never used the defense dept for political reasons and he was tired of that story being out there.

[lancdem]

24. Who's using Clarke's book?

The panelists? BTW, glad to hear Cohen cleared up the aspirin factory bombing.

[AlCzervik]

30. Clake's book

Yes Rohmer and some of the others keep holding up the book and quoting from it, not really a good idea. I understand why they would want to but this commision has turned partisan....not helping anybody.

[shoopnyc123]

27. Bob Kerrey is auditioning for something...

...he seems overly aware of "how he looks". My observation anyway. Most of his rants are soundbite garbage, (and one of them is playing already). It's the overkill of "looking" impartial.

[wtf]

31. I'm sorry to say it, but some of you guys are sick :/

He's just doing what he's supposed to be doing, and when it's Rumsfeld's turn to get it, I'm sure no one here will be complaining.

[Spazito]

36. If he does that, I will complement him but that does not negate...

valid criticism either. You can do both, it is called being objective.

[Bozita]

32. "The war on terror will not be won on the battlefield."

Cohen

[NewJeffCT]

35. can we trade Cohen for Lieberman?

Seems like a good deal.

[lancdem]

38. I'll throw in Zell Miller and make it a 2-for-1

:evilgrin:

[PaDUer]

42. Rummy up next...

watch how he gets tongue-tied, sarcastic and double talks..

[underpants]

40. The juxtaposition of Cohen and Rummy should be interesting

Cohen-smooth, direct, dare I say pre-empting quesitons, complete

Rummy (if form holds)- dismissive, smart a**ed, condescending

[mainer]

41. Every Repub who claimed "wag the dog" helped OBL

The Republicans who claimed Clinton was trying to "wag the dog" should now be held accountable -- and, yes, partly responsible for the 9/11 attacks. They're the ones who ridiculed Clinton's attempts to take out OBL. Well now it should be pointed out to them: While Clinton was working against terrorism, YOU were trying to block him!

YOU "wag the dog" Republicans were on the side of the terrorists!

[Bozita]

44. Bullseye! ... Well stated.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Certainly the conclusion of Cohen's testimony.

We should start a new thread for Rumsfeld.

[PaDUer]

48. they ARE the terrorists! n/t

[shoopnyc123]

49. The is a battle of the Administrations...

[NNN0LHI]

50. And quite a battle it is shaping up to be n/t