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There Is A Bill Out There That Would Let Congress Override SCOTUS?

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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:14 PM
Original message
There Is A Bill Out There That Would Let Congress Override SCOTUS?
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ky02_lewis/Activism.html

Press Release:

Accountability for Judicial Activism Act Introduced in House
Rep. Lewis introduces landmark legislation to override SCOTUS decisions

WASHINGTON, D.C.— March 9, 2004 – U.S. Representative Ron Lewis (R-KY) today introduced The Congressional Accountability for Judicial Activism Act (H.R. 3920), legislation that would allow Congress, by a 2/3rds vote in each house, to override certain future decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court. The bill was drafted in an effort to redress recent cases of activist judicial rulings.

“America’s judicial branch has become increasingly overreaching and disconnected from the values of everyday Americans,” said Lewis. “The recent actions taken by courts in Massachusetts and elsewhere are demonstrative of a single branch of government taking upon itself the singular ability to legislate. These actions usurp the will of the governed by allowing a select few to conclusively rule on issues that are radically reshaping our nation’s traditions.”

Lewis’ proposed legislation, designed to preserve equal dignity among branches of government, would only be applicable to rulings concerning the constitutionality of an Act of Congress following passage. Lewis, a strong supporter of numerous legislative measures aimed to define marriage as an exclusive union between a man and a woman, believes a more comprehensive solution is necessary to address the broader issue of activist courts; a concern he believes has troubling implications beyond just the issue of marriage.

“The framers of the Constitution were advocates of serious debate who believed that the deliberation of the political process should always be open to the people. As the courts continue to expand their power of judicial review, I believe Congress, as the people’s branch of representative government, should take steps to equally affirm our authority to interpret constitutional issues.”

The right of judicial review is a practice with origins from the bench itself, established by the 1803 Marbury v. Madison decision, and is not expressly provided for in the Constitution. Many argue that the exercise of such broad judicial authority, expanded over time and by political tradition, has a growing adverse affect on co-equal branches of government.

“As judicial power expands, Congressional power contracts,” said Lewis. “This is especially true when the power to interpret the Constitution rests in the hands of activist judges anxious to find the latest ‘right’ hiding between the lines of our founding document.”

The Congressional Accountability for Judicial Activism Act is gaining early support from numerous Member of Congress including eleven original co-sponsors. Lewis hopes his legislation will encourage serious bipartisan debate on the growing imbalance of constitutional authority between legislative and judicial branches of government.




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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. SCOTUS would surely find it unConstitutional
Are they trying to start another civil war?
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liberal72 Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. WTF
This completely changes the check and balance system we have. And I would be willing to say that it would require a con. amendment to do this.

:kick:
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. WTF?!?!
Jeeez...Thomas Jefferson must have increased the spinning in his grave by 100 RPM.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Pouting Pinhead Protection Act of 2004
Needless to say, by "judicial activism" they mean the right to privacy, the church/state wall, the collective interpretation of the Second Amendment and a whole bunch of other long-established issues....

Your American Taliban at work!!
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. The SCOTUS will rule it UnConstitutional as it should!
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. It is equal and fair...
“As judicial power expands, Congressional power contracts,” Dont you mean “As Executive power expands, Congressional power contracts,”

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. exactly,
The balance of power is out of whack, but the judiciary is not to fault on this mess.
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. What the constitution says on this
The US Constitution in Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2 says that "the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make."
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a3_2_2.html

From what I understand the Defense of Marriage Act, signed by Clinton, allows states to not accept same sex marriages from other states under Article 4, Section 1.
"And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records, and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a4_1.html

Congress can remove certain things from federal appellate jurisdiction, but not after the Court has ruled on a subject. There is a bill, HR 3313 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.03313:, that removes same sex marriage from federal court jurisdiction. This would remove the need for an amendment since, it wouldn't be a federal issue. But it would allow each state to decide on its own. It wouldn't forbid same sex marriage, but let each state decide on its own. At least it would be a federal issue.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Whoever is behind this should be kicked out of congress
and sent back to high school civics.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. These folks are insane. If conservatives can't get their way they
try legislation to force their beliefs on us. They are a part of the fundie jihad.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. This was all decided in Marbury vs. Madison
To alter things now would require an amendment to the constitution. The Congress cannot vote to give itself authority that is not derived from the consitution.

This bill is unconstitutional on its face.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, we COULD use it to override any future SCOTUS selections of
fucking imposter pResidents I suppose....
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. isn't this a catch 22?
Edited on Tue Mar-16-04 12:38 PM by ButterflyBlood
since the Supreme Court could overrule it, using the power that the bill strips.

of course, the bill says Congress needs a 2/3 majority, which I doubt this bill could get as support, in fact I doubt something this extreme could get even a simple majority.
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Chelzek Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. No catch 22
the constitution clearly gives them the power to strike it down. Fed law can never be considered ahead of the constitution.

Only a constitutional amendment on the matter could deny them that power.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. true -- constitutional amendment is what's needed
And just for the info of those interested, the 1982 Canadian constitution does contain such a clause, based on the tradition of "parliamentary supremacy". This item was also posted in J/PS, which normal people don't frequent, so I'll take the liberty of reposting here what I offered there.

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/charter/charter.text.html (emphasis added)

EXCEPTION WHERE EXPRESS DECLARATION / Operation of exception / Five year limitation / Re-enactment / Five year limitation.

33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter.

(2) An Act or a provision of an Act in respect of which a declaration made under this section is in effect shall have such operation as it would have but for the provision of this Charter referred to in the declaration.

(3) A declaration made under subsection (1) shall cease to have effect five years after it comes into force or on such earlier date as may be specified in the declaration. ...
It amounts to basically what the US proposal is (if it were a proposal to amend the US Constitution, of course) -- except that a judgment of the Supreme Court would not be required before Parliament or a legislature overrode a provision of the Charter of Rights. Parliament or a legislature may pre-empt a constitutional challenge by enacting legislation notwithstanding what certain sections of the constitution say.

The sections in question address these matters:

-- fundamental freedoms (e.g. speech, association)

-- legal rights:
- life, liberty, security of the person
- right against unreasonable search and seizure
- right against arbitrary detention or imprisonment
- rights upon arrest
- rights in the criminal justice system (trial, bail, etc.)
- right against cruel and unusual treatment or punishment
- right against self-incrimination
- right to an interpreter

-- equality rights

Parliament or a legislature may not override, for instance, "democratic rights" (voting and elections), "mobility rights", and the other rights and freedoms set out in the Charter.

The provision was a compromise between the proposal to entrench a "bill of rights" in the constitution and the tradition of "parliamentary supremacy" which holds that the will of the people, through their elected representatives, is supreme and must not be fettered.

The latter school of thought does not adequately address the notion, fundamental to a liberal democracy, that minorities must be protected from majority rule.

The former school of thought is regarded as potentially hamstringing a government faced with serious public policy reasons for limiting the exercise of some rights (e.g. during wartime).

The famous instance in which the notwithstanding clause was invoked was Quebec's requirement that French be the primary language of commercial speech (signs), based on the provincial legislature's grave concern for the survival of francophone/québécois society and culture in North America -- i.e., in the conflict between the collective right of cultural survival and development, and the individual right of free expression (not to mention the conflict between anglophones' and francophones' collective rights), it came down on the side of the collective right. That legislation was allowed to sunset by a subsequent government.

As in the whole ball of wax that is constitutional democracy, the good will and good faith of the people and their elected representatives is the only real guarantor of freedom and democracy one ever has, whatever the written arrangements are. No piece of paper is going to stop a government that has widespread support, and the various powers of government, from doing what it wants to do.

The commentary in the battered Charter of Rights and Freedoms booklet by my elbow, published by the Cdn government in 1982, says (emphasis added):

... In other words, if a government should propose a law that may limit some of the rights and freedoms set out in the Charter, it will have to say clearly that this is what it is doing and accept full responsibility for the political consequences.
One can't say whether it was a direct "political consequence" of invoking the notwithstanding clause, but the Quebec government that did so was voted out of office in the next election.

The right-wingers up here mumble about invoking the clause, if they're elected, all the time -- to restore the death penalty, to outlaw abortion, to prohibit same-sex marriage. So far, nobody's electing them. And I generally say that if we did elect them, we'd already have a lot more problems (a population that chose to elect a fascistic government) than the notwithstanding clause.

Anyhow, obviously the problem in the US is that the fascistic government in question is a little closer on the horizon, and the likelihood of such a clause being used for reasons other than the public/national interest is just a bit more foreseeable. But again, surely the real problem is whom one elects -- like the sponsors of the proposal in question in this thread -- not what one allows them to do once they're elected.


And I'd just point out that the US Supreme Court's contribution to Bush's occupation of the US presidency, in case anyone saw that as "judicial activism", was really just plain old corruption, and there's no piece of paper that can prevent that, either.

.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. They should be more concerned about EXECUTIVE POWER...
...and the COEQUAL branches of government.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. They are
They have a problem with COEQUAL branches of govt, hence the bill.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. not only is this a waste of paper time and money
any asshole who came up with this is a waste of skin.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. some call it treason
perhaps language should be added to say things revert back when the Democrats regain control of all branches of the government ... and, then, change again, according to this loony scheme, if the balance swings back to the Republicans ...

unseat these scoundrels and scalawags


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Chelzek Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Some would call it treason
Edited on Tue Mar-16-04 03:16 PM by Chelzek
to arrest a member of congress on charge of treason for a bill that member introduced. There is a reason most western nations have laws against arresting members of congress in certain situations (like ours, for instance). Just look up Nazi germany to see how dangerous it is to give the executive that kind of power.

Talk about unbalancing the branches of government...

As a disclaimer - clearly the bill is unconstitutional, however a member of congress has every right to introduce it.
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. can't congress control what cases come before the court?
Article III section 2........... In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make. .....
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Another example of fright wing desperation
They are clearly seeing the writing on the wall. They must know B* will not survive the election and will not be able to make even one appointment to the SC.

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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
:kick:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't like it one bit
Just another attempt to mess with the Constitution IMHO
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terryg11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. this is ridiculous
might as well throw out everything the founding fathers came up with and start all over, as long as it's in line with today's thinking, whtever that is
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Humm...sounds JUST like *line item veto* all over again.....
Edited on Tue Mar-16-04 02:54 PM by jus_the_facts
.....when they have control they want to ENSURE they have ULTIMATE control....as soon as their ideas work against them it's then deemed unconstitutional...oh what a tangled web they weave...amazing actually when the SCOTUS has already given them the WH and that's STILL not enough! :eyes:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe... Just Maybe...
There's a silver lining here.

This thing is definitely unconstitutional, but may have the potential to anger even the most conservative of justices. Maybe they will feel compelled to fire back.

I'm thinkin this might help Scalia recuse himself from any cases involving Cheney, for example.

Discuss.

:shrug:

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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Well, this is a sticky wicket, for sure!!!!!!
N/T
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. and who are the true radicals in congress?
the members of congress who support this do not support american democracy and the US constitution.

they are in fact, in word and deed, traitors.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. insert "executive" branch for "judicial", makes an interesting read....n/t
Edited on Tue Mar-16-04 03:40 PM by pinto
knowing that Congress already has the constitutional power to check the Executive, but has abrogated responsibility.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. Paragraph From A Speech Ron Lewis Made
Edited on Tue Mar-16-04 04:24 PM by matcom
note, the Senator being chided here is Kennedy:

"The senator's claim that Afghanistan was pushed aside in favor of a focus on Iraq as early as the 2002 State of the Union Address is facetious at best, and a gross misrepresentation at worst. In ten of the first fourteen paragraphs of the State of the Union, the president referred to the situation in Afghanistan and its liberation. Senator Kennedy's focus on the semantics of the speech — "What did he say about bin Laden...? Nothing. What did he say about the Taliban? Nothing" — demonstrates exactly the type of leadership we can expect should his ilk ever regain control of our national security infrastructure: Symbolism, instead of substance.



http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lewis200402120848.asp
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. bump
:kick:
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