wait a minute, I am still a conservative

[marie123]

Hi

I am one of the many conservatives coming over to the other side.
I do thank you for you warm responses to us. Not one of you has ever given us an " I told you so" or a go home you a$$whole! I do wonder if we would have been that open and forgiven to you, should the shoe had been on the other foot.
In any event I am greatful to you all

However,
I am still a conservative. I still love and believe in God. I still believe that we are one country built under God. I would appreciate no tax increases and I support structure and prayer in our schools. Prayer of choice. I am pro-life, but support the womens right to choose. I will never beable to spell. I am still me. The only difference is, I have seen the light. I realize what has been done to this country is so wrong, and I dont how long it will take us to fix it. I do know we must remain united or we will never straighten mess out, but in the process I do not want to lose my identity.

[JuniorPlankton]

1. Welcome!

I have to say right away: I disagree with you on some issues.
HOWEVER, the important difference is that on this side people will be OK with having your own opinion.

It's OK to disagree. It's great to think independently!

Welcome again!

[MsFlorida]

2. Dear Marie,

Together as a team, even this country can be fixed and made stronger and welcome, we are very pleased that you are here.

Karyn

[marie123]

65. thank you Karyn

and together we will get our country back. The key word here being "together". Lets bring it on!

[Bunny]

3. You are welcome here.

You will find many good DUers who share some of your beliefs. We truly are the Big Tent party, and we're glad to have you here. Remember: ABB in '04!

[trogdor]

4. Welcome from another "real conservative"

Of course, I'd love to be able to pull ourselves out of our mess without tax increases, but I realize this might not be possible. I'm not a green-visor guy, so I don't have a ready answer for you, but I would say the top couple of percent should have to bear the greatest burden for fixing Bush's mess. Bottom line: we need to get the deficit under control PDQ - BEFORE the shit hits the fan, not after (as one AEI mouthpiece suggested on NPR this morning), and budget cuts aren't going to do it by themselves.

[Misinformed01]

5. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet

Two thoughts on your post:

Do you think only conservatives believe in God?

"Pro-life, but support the woman's right to choose?" I thought that was called "pro-choice."

Sounds like you are a moderate Democrat to me.

Stephanie

[Solomon]

28. I thought the same thing Misinformed. Why do conservatives

believe that we WANT more taxes? I'd like not to be taxed too but I don't see that as a conservative position. If we could redistribute the taxes collected the right way, we wouldn't need to increase taxes. I'm for less government too, but it seems the republicans are creating more bureacracies every day.

[beyurslf]

31. I think she means she is

a "real conservative." As in, it isn't about social issues, it is about economic issues. Socially moderate to liberal but fiscally conservative. It wasn't until the 80's that you really saw the social conservatives take over the party and they solidified that in the 90's and with GW.

[wysimdnwyg]

6. I think most here will disagree with you on many topics, but...

being Democrats, we're all more than willing to engage you in civil conversation about how to best bring our country back from the brink of disaster to which Bush has brought us.

I do have a piece of advice for you, though. Stay out of the Primary2004 forum. It gets nasty in there.

Welcome! :bounce:

[MoonAndSun]

7. Welcome, we are happy to have you here, marie123...

just remember this board is made up of so many different types of people who have divergent points of view on almost any subject. The one thing that ties us all together is the goal of ousting bush* and his administration out of the WH.

[Mari333]

8. Welcome

Many people on here believe in God as they know him or her ..Its a board that welcome all people of religion and no religion..
Prayer is already legal in the schools, if a child wants to pray on their own they legally can and I support that. Im just against forced prayers by the officials specifying just one belief.
Glad to have you on DU and welcome.
edit to add: Its good to see, if you are a Christian, that you choose the path of gentleness and compassion as an embodiment of what Christ would have chosen, rather then what we see in the White House today, which seems to be the path of the Pharisees who have hijacked Christianity and use it to be cruel and barbaric.

[marie123]

13. and you!, mari333 are

the reason I am here! Well the push that pushed me over.

Reading you post on the draft, the voting issues... you have passion and your determination is so impressive. I feel like I know you in so many different ways.

It is a pleasure to have you reply to my post

[liberalhistorian]

43. Did you know that mari333 also

has a son in Iraq?

[marie123]

62. yes I did

we have much in common

thank you for pointing that out

[Richardo]

9. Welcome Marie123...

You should be able to find a niche - the spectrum here is unusually broad.

We have our socialists, greens, liberals and centrists, but I'm seeing more and more disillusioned conservatives who have seen their Republican party undergo a red shift to the extreme right under the neo-cons and the current administration. They, like you (and others) are looking for a solution that is fair and consistent with the tenets of the founding fathers, the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution.

You will disagree with many here (and vice-versa, we all do), but on the whole you'll find the debate open, honest, and lacking in personal attacks. (The admins and mods are VERY insistent about that).

Enjoy, and welcome to the light! :toast:

[reprehensor]

10. Thanks for 'crossing the line'.

Here are some articles you may find interesting.

Pat Buchanan - 'Whose War'
http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

Congressman Ron Paul - 'Neo-conned'
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

You are not the only conservative seeing the light.

[truthspeaker]

11. welcome!

I just want to respond to a couple of your points:

> I still love and believe in God. I still believe that we are one country built under God.

As an American you have an unalienable right to believe that.

> I would appreciate no tax increases

Wesley Clark says he only wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts for people with incomes above $200K. I'm not sure of the exact position of the other Dem candidates but it wouldn't hurt to write them to ask and express your concerns about taxes! Taxes will be the Achilles heel of the Democrats if we don't play it exactly right. Part of that is just education - personally my federal income taxes went down slightly, but my state property taxes went up because with the cuts in federal money (particularly for No Child Left Behind) states and cities have had to raise taxes to maintain the same level of service. I will actually pay more in taxes this year because my state and local taxes went up more than my federal taxes went down.

> and I support structure and prayer in our schools. Prayer of choice.

Voluntary prayer in schools is not only legal, it's constitutionally protected. No one is trying to take it away, but "conservative" religious groups love to tell you otherwise as a way of drumming up support.


> I am pro-life, but support the womens right to choose.

I think most Americans feel that way.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. Marie you're welcome here-there are some DUers who are conervative

Dems. As long as you put your country first and your party affiliation second, you're more than welcome here.

As a Catholic, I definitely disagree with you about prayer in schools and the 'one nation under God'. That is not what the Constitution intended. That's why there's such good Catholic schools here in New England if you want your kids to have religion with their education.

[truthspeaker]

18. actually she said "prayer of choice"

which is different from forced prayer, which some schools used to have prior to the Supreme Court's O'Hair decision.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Welcome To A World Of Colors, Not Shades Of Black & White

As a lifelong Democrat and Progressive, here's expressing my admiration for having an open mind about what is going on with this regime and reaching out to those of us who have been chafing under this burden since December, 2000.

I think you'll see there are many different types of Democrats here...many who will share your beliefs in religion or economics or social issues...while totally opposite on others. Personally, I'm a fiscal Conservative (I'll run rings around any "Free Market" Republican") and will join any true Conservative in a close examination of government waste, taxation and the corporate welfare system.

DU has offered a great platform where you get a drift of a lot of thoughts that can be easily picked from...and the links to the sources so you can determine for yourself the validity and gravity of the issue. In some cases, you may be surprised at how much we have in common and through open dialogue can either accept the values or expand our views.

Your identity is not only assured here, but encouraged. Remember, now you are in the world of the REAL middle class...people of many different backgrounds...ethnicity, lifestyles, incomes and ages...all of us proud of our uniqueness and supporting a party that has evolved over the last half century as the outlet of common folks, not the vested.

Congrats on entering a new world...here's hoping your journey leads to many wonderful discoveries. Cheers! And bring your friends!

[DrBB]

15. Hm. You'd be surprised how many "conservatives" there are here

I still love and believe in God. I still believe that we are one country built under God. I would appreciate no tax increases and I support structure and prayer in our schools. Prayer of choice. I am pro-life, but support the womens right to choose. I will never beable to spell. I am still me. The only difference is, I have seen the light. I realize what has been done to this country is so wrong, and I dont how long it will take us to fix it. I do know we must remain united or we will never straighten mess out, but in the process I do not want to lose my identity.

Sounds about 80% what I believe too. And here I thought I was a liberal! Ain't it funny how the media and a lot of commentators of a certain stripe seem to cast "liberals" as some kind of bizarre alien life-form? Why do you suppose they're so eager to emphasize what divides us? Who profits most when the people are divided against themselves?

Welcome to DU, marie123.

[marie123]

64. good point

thank you for my welcome and thank you for responding to my post

[calimary]

70. But, but, but, didn't you know we liberals have horns and three heads

and we're all into devil worship and the torture and consumption of live small animals?

Sorry - just had to be silly there. Uh - sorry, make that MORE silly than usual!

Really, though, Marie123, and any of you other recovering republicans, I gather you see how people here feel, and how we feel about you. We are BEYOND delighted that you are here. As you've probably noticed from the many reactions to your post - lots of people here find common ground with you. You're only just beginning to discover that, after having survived the hurricanes of anger and demonizing and slandering us and smearing us and making us out to be filthy, dirty, commie rats because we don't blindly believe as the republi-CONS do or mutely march in lockstep with them. I've seen some of what the "freeper" mentality people say. I've heard the vilification by the Limbaughs and Hannitys and O'Reillys. Indeed, I think it was ex-g.o.p.er who said he was pleasantly surprised to find that nobody here was a traitor or anti-American, as he'd been told repeatedly was so. Some of the worst lies have been told not JUST BY bush and his cronies and apologists, but lies told ABOUT us liberals/progressives/moderates/Democrats. It is refreshing and spiritually uplifting to see you have come over and discovered what's REALLY true.

Frankly, I feel somewhat protective of people like yourself. But I don't think you need it. People here have already embraced you and others who've come over from the Dark Side. And we plan to keep it that way.

Many others here have already remarked that there's so much more that unites us than could ever divide us. I can see the reasoning behind quite a few beliefs that true conservatives espouse. I'm a Catholic, but ardently pro-choice, yet I wouldn't have an abortion (I'd do everything preventive that I could to avoid it anyway, and I've taught my daughter the same thing). When my unmarried best friend got pregnant and everybody else among her (mostly conservative) friends was telling her to get an abortion, she told me I was the ONLY one who responded by asking her "what do YOU want to do?" I don't mind prayer in schools - heck, if you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you're in effect saying a prayer because you invoke God as the Power over our nation. I have my kids in Catholic school where they pray and study religion - and they're both baptized Presbyterian. I'm just against enforced prayers dictated by a small advocacy group which demands that everyone must be exactly like them and believe exactly like them and not ever question or dissent. I believe in the Bible, but I don't want it taught in SCIENCE CLASS!!! I believe in smaller government, especially a smaller government that does governing business and doesn't try to pry its way into my bank account, my library check-out choices, my emails, my bedroom, my conscience, OR my nether regions! The dreaded republi-CON attack dog Lee Atwater once blathered on about the so-called "Big Tent." THIS is the only place you'll find the big tent, where all ideas are welcome, all ideas are open to being discussed and debated in civility without insulting and sneering at the holders of those ideas, and where we all hold sacred the principles on which America was originally built. It's among us here on "the other side of the aisle."

Mostly, I believe in people like you. You are courageous and wise. It takes a huge amount of guts for someone to admit he or she was wrong. Even more to admit that they've been had. That you and others here have admitted that - earns my everlasting admiration. Thank you for helping us spread the REAL truth. Thank you for being willing to read the handwriting on the wall and courageous enough to see what the meaning of that writing is. As one of the other folks here put it - welcome, join us, settle in and make yourself comfortable, and bring your friends!

edited for spelling, punctuation.

[lovedems]

16. HI! I think you fill find that democrats are united by diversity

while I think republicans are united by "hate". I think you will find on DU a wide range of political idealogy and while you might not agree with some views, you will learn alot.

Welcome to the democratic party and I hope you never second guess to decision to join!

:hi:

[HereSince1628]

17. Welcome...don't fret we got ourselves a spell-checker

now back to the in-fighting...

[SlavesandBulldozers]

19. welcome

the more time you spend here the more you will realize that Dems are not what they are perceived to be by the Rabid Right. Your message of unity is outstanding, and you will find this message of unity reciprocated.

[onecitizen]

20. What a great post to start my day........

off with. I know all conservatives are not bad. And real conservatives are probably outraged at what has taken over their party and their name. This group occupying the WH now are not Conservative. I don't know what they are exactly, but they are not conservative. Anyway, welcome to DU Marie.:hi:

[liberalhistorian]

46. That's certainly true.

Liberal as I and many of my family members are (except for my stepsister and her husband, which is another story entirely!), we also have plenty of friends who consider themselves conservative or close to it, and they are VERY VERY angry at what's happening and at what Bush is doing. They're not entirely ready to vote for the Dem yet (unless it's Kerry or Clark, I think because of their military backgrounds), but they sure as hell aren't voting for Bush either.

[oldleftguy]

21. Welcome--

--as long as you promise not to have children. (Just kidding) We share some beliefs.
:hi:

[Cat Atomic]

22. I don't want to raise taxes either. I want stop handing tax money to

corporations like Haliburton and other defense industry fat cats when our schools are underfunded. I think most of us here are for adjusting the way money is spent by the government- to make our taxes serve the middle class. We're *not* for taxing the hell out of the middle class.

Either way- it's good to have you aboard, mari123. There's plenty of room for a range of opinion on any issue, and I look forward to reading more from you. :)

[waldenx]

23. what the fuck?

is the "tent" so big that ideology is irrelevent?
If conservatives politics are accepted as legitimate then I want no part of this website or the Democratic party.

[Terwilliger]

26. I hear ya, but don't shut them off so quickly

maybe they can be properly retrained!

[Richardo]

30. Bye!

Nice tolerance, waldenx - way to win 'em over. :eyes:

[liberalhistorian]

47. I was just about to say the same thing.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, which means we can reach people a lot more effectively by not dumping on them and getting nasty. We don't like it when they do that to us, and we shouldn't pull the same shit.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misinformed01]

38. Oh hell, that's just Waldenx

I haven't seen him for over a year...not sure why...but, this post is pretty typical of some of his stuff from the old flamer days of DU. In fact, this is mild.

[roughsatori]

37. Actually a Conservative would probably fit in better at DU than a leftist

Democrat or Green. I do appreciate your post. I thought the same thing--but I am a proud "leftist wacko" as some newer members love to claim. How ironic, now some of us welcome Conservatives and mock leftists. This is what ABB leads to: Ideology is irrelevant. Lately there are more links to conservative news-sources and absolutely conservative opinions expressed here then I care for--maybe after Shrub is out DU will get out of the neo-liberal-centrism. A tent this large is a cliché meaningless in terms of accomplishing social change.

I wonder how many defenses of SOA/WHIS or pleas for further censorship I will read here today. Yesterday the first thread I clicked on had posters complaining about "the leftist fringe making us look bad." LMAO

[Kanary]

39. You're correct... the more the conservatives are welcomed,

the more the "left" is shoved out.

"Somewhere there's a place for us..."

But, I have a feeling we'll have to start our own soon......

Kanary

[Terwilliger]

41. you get that feeling too, eh?

I'm trying to blunt that feeling until November

[starroute]

77. For everything there is a season . . .

Right now is the time to form a common front against the Bushistas. After we take our country back, we can start choosing sides again.

I have the feeling that when it all shakes out, "liberal" and "conservative" won't mean what they did in the 20th century. I know that many liberals have been developing a greater appreciation for certain traditional values -- family, community, spirituality. And some conservatives have been moving towards a respect for the environment and a toleration of diversity, multi-culturalism, and alternative forms of belief.

Liberals and conservatives of fifty years ago were united by their love of democracy and freedom, whatever other differences they may have had, and that was what made bipartisan government possible. I hope that liberals and conservatives of the post-Bush era will be united by a love of the land, the people, and the fundamental decency of our society.

If we have that strong foundation, we will be able to disagree politely again on the precise roles of government and business without wanting to cut each other's throats out. And that can only be a good thing.

[SuzeeW]

24. I have no problem with 'true' conservatives

The conservatives I have a problem with are the neo-cons like the current administration.

:kick:

[Kanary]

25. Before I welcome you

I must know one thing....... are you a conservative who doesn't care one whit about poor and disabled people?

Are you one of those conservatives who would rather see us dead than to see us have a decent life?

You see, I'm right now looking at a cut that is coming this year that will be the end of me. The cut is because conservatives think disabled people like me are no-good, lazy bums. Is that your view?

We have been reviled and spit on by conservatives. Does that matter to you?

Do you have the courage to answer to those of us your policies have damaged?

Kanary

[marie123]

45. I care for the disabled

I am sorry these things are happening to you. I pray that programs increase for you.

I wish you wouldn't think of me in this way

[liberalhistorian]

48. I think the problem is that the current

neocons in power make it seem like ALL conservatives feel the same way they do about those "less fortunate" and the disabled, etc., etc., when that isn't the case.

[zbdent]

49. About prayer - remember the guy on the roof of the flooded house

When he went before God and said "I prayed for you to save me, why did I drown?"

God says: "Look, I sent you a policeman telling you to leave, I sent you a boat, and a helicopter. What more could you ask for?"

Prayer, coupled with action, does more wonders than prayer alone.

I hope that you don't take this as a slam.

It's like the old Peanuts cartoon. Snoopy is out in the cold, freezing. Linus and Charlie Brown say, "There's Snoopy. Let's go comfort him." "Be of good cheer." "Yes, be of good cheer."

They then leave, and Snoopy's still freezing.

The point? The words are wonderful, but the actions help along with them. (Think Bush's "compassionate conservative". Pretty words, no action.)

My main point: If you don't like what Bush is doing to this country, don't just pray for change. Vote him out.

[marie123]

68. very nice post

and honey I am voting that S O B out! maybe not with a dem vote, but certainly with a green vote

[Kanary]

52. And, I wish conservatives wouldn't think of me in *their* way

Yes, I *do* expect you to hear what I'm going through. That's what you voted for.

I've heard put downs from many conservatives who are not "neocons", and it HURTS. I need for you to understand the hurt that has been caused.

I'm glad to know that you do not support all the policies of those you voted for.

I hope you will now hold their feet to the fire, and insist that the cuts be restored. There are people suffering heavily because of these policies.

Kanary

[catzies]

71. Please explain "I pray that programs increase for you."

While I understand you are trying to be sympathetic, please tell me how a self-admitted anti-tax conservative hopes that programs are increased for the needy. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Marie123, don't worry about "losing your identity as a conservative." I pray for a new identity for you, and as I told my GOP-friend-who-is-evolving-into-a-liberal, "You're not losing your soul; you're regaining it."

[Kanary]

79. Thanks, catzies!

I take your post as support, and appreciate it.

I, also, want to know what conservatives will DO to right the wrongs.

Hopefully, before too many of us die.

One vote won't do it..... it's time for them to speak out, and work to reverse the cuts.

Kanary

[catzies]

80. Yes, Kanary, that is exactly what I meant.

I, as a liberal, want to WORK to right the wrongs. PRAYER isn't enough.

And tax cuts aren't just numbers. They are real people like you and talk doesn't get you what you need. Money does. I am happy to pay any taxes that help real people in need.

The only welfare I'm against is corporate welfare.

Blessings on you, dear. :)

[lcordero]

27. Hi

Welcome to DU
:hi:

[spinbaby]

29. Nothing wrong with being a conservative

I am, too, in many ways.

I support families, balanced budgets, not invading other countries, and having the government stay out of our private business. Last time I looked, that was conservative.

The thing is, the people we have in office now aren't conservative. They talk about supporting the family while promoting policies that make it tougher for families to get by. They talk about balancing the budget while cutting taxes on the wealthy and spending like drunken sailors. They talk about peace and security while invading other countries and providing terrorists with new reasons to terrorize. They talk about freedom while taking away our liberties. These aren't conservatives, these are fascists.

[beyurslf]

32. You're welcome here anytime.

I can always appreciate someone who has conservative economic beliefs. I have many friends who say they are Repub or Indep who share those beliefs. What they have in common with you is a respect for a person's rights and a more moderate to liberal social view. We can always disagree on tax policy, but when someone attacks a person's rights there is a problem!

[Aristus]

33. Welcome, Marie. I hope you will stay awhile.

I'm pretty accepting of some conservatives; my wife, for example. Would it surprise you to know that there are liberal Christians? I am one. Liberal war veterans? I am one. Conservatives didn't corner the market on either faith or patriotism, as you are probably learning. You must be here because you understand that B*sh isn't a real conservative. The way he spends, and spends, and spends. And lies. And lards up the government with new bureaucracies. And panders to the corporations. Etc.,etc.,etc.

Welcome! :hi:

[K8-EEE]

34. It's Cool Marie!

I'm a Liberal, I'm a Catholic, I'm a lot of things that I don't want to force on anybody else. I just believe in freedom to be and believe whatever you want.

I believe that this administration wants to take that away, and they are using all manner of deceits to do it, including false patriotism and religious hypocracy (pharasee style) and most evil, an unnecessary war, in order to control us.

Welcome to you and ALL conservatives here.

[Az]

35. Ok, some questions then (I suspect you may be more liberal than you think)

Do you think I have to believe in god?

Do you believe that a nation of diverse people can be one nation if the oath is to something not all the people believe in? (one nation under god does not work if some of the people do not believe in god)

I think you will find that most people would hope for lower taxes but do you not think that taxes well spent do greater good for the We The People? Why should only Walmart benefit from the buying power of purchasing in bulk?

You may be happy to know that there has never been a time when prayer was not allowed in school. What has been banned is favoring a religious view as part of official school policy. Thus the teachers cannot tell the students to pray. The school cannot favor a particular form of prayer. And the schools cannot discriminate against those that do not pray.

Is not praying a choice?

We can only be united when we accept each other as part of a diverse family. Each of us bringing our own views and strengths to the table. I will gladdly work beside you to straighten this mess out as long as you allow me to.

[marie123]

69. I agree with you

100%

nice post

Thanks!

[Bandit]

40. If you believe in Jesus you have come to the right place

Notice I said Jesus and not God like you said. The God of the Old Testament was a cruel God of War and a jealous God to boot. Jesus came along and established a whole new Testament. He preached Love and Peace not War. I'm sure if you believe in the words of Jesus you will realize that the Democratic Party has been carrying water for Jesus for ever. We believe in giving to the poor and turning the other cheek. Bombing Iraq is the very last thing Jesus would have done. In fact virtually everything Jesus ranted and raved about is the Republican Party. They are hypocrites and money-changers and the last thing on their agenda is helping the poor. We believe very strongly that Government and Religion should be kept separated.(Give unto Rome what is Rome's) We do not want a government teaching us what religion we should practice and that means public schools. Jesus said pray in your closet as prayer is very private and not to pray on the street corners like the hypocrites. The class room is not your private closet so I guess you want to go against the wishes of Jesus and force religion on our school children like the hypocrites. Please re-read Mathew so you can get a Glimmer of what Jesus really wants us to do and how we should behave and see if it coincides with Conservatism.

[liberalhistorian]

42. Welcome to DU!

We try very hard not to be smug and "I told you so-ish", tempting as it may be sometimes, lol!

BTW, you can be an involved Christian and regularly attend church, and not be a conservative. A lot of us liberals believe in God, also, I don't think you have to be conservative to be religious. And we also love our country, which is why it's so heartbreaking to see what's happening to it.

As someone with knowledge of history, though, may I respectfully say that many of the founding fathers were not Christians, and were not even particularly religious, and the country was NOT founded as a specifically Christian, religous country? While some, were, indeed, Christians, many of the others recognized the importance of not establishing a nation based on a particular religion and not mandating a state religion.

[corporatewhore]

44. welcome and get scared by us hardcore lefties who think voting dem is

selling out to a conservative party :hi:

[Richardo]

50. HA! LMAO, corporatewhore...

Some of us moderates were threatened by the lefties...at first... :-)

(I got better...)

[corporatewhore]

57. oops meant DONTget scared

[Jacobin]

51. Welcome. I'm truly sorry your party has been hijacked.

While I don't agree with many conservatives on some issues, I always respected true conservatives. The neo-conservatives who are in power have hijacked your party and have done the entire country a gross disservice. A strong two party system is very important to the stability of this country, and I fear, ironically, that the neo-cons will cripple the republicans in a few years and we need them. We need true conservatives to balance this country.

Anyway, glad you are here.

:hi:

[ComerPerro]

53. A couple of points:

Many liberals believe in God. In fact, many liberals are liberal because they are trying to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

If you support the woman's right to chose, then you are pro-choice. You may be pro-life because you personally are opposed to the idea of abortion, but you may be suprised to find that many pro-choice people do not like the idea of abortion. It just comes down to the refusal to disallow any personal choice on the issue that makes us pro-choice. I don't agree with the idea of abortion, but I don't think someone who feels it may be the best option for them should be denied the chance to have one.
Much of my borderline psychotic stance on being pro-choice comes from too much hypocracy from the pro-lifers. I feel that if you are truly opposed to abortion and want to make it so abortions are illegal, why not create an environment in which unwanted pregnancies do not occur. This does not happen by only teaching abstainance. They tought abstainance in my high school, and we still had pregnancies. Also, if pro-lifers think the fetus is so damned important, why do they suddenly cut it off and just abandon it once it is born? ... Sorry to start ranting there...

I do not support tax increases either, but I think most of Bush's tax cuts should be repealed. I would prefer to see proper tax relief for the middle class, which is on the verge of disappearing entirely. The wealthiest Americans don't need tax cuts just so they can donate their $2,000 and then use the rest to buy back the stock market for pennies on the dollar. Screw them. Their president says we are at war, and if they believe that then its time they made at least one sacrafice.

I don't believe in prayer in schools, and when I say that I mean I don't believe in prayer that is led by a teacher (thus implying an endorsement of a religion). Conservatives on the far, religious right always like to pretend that any prayer in school is illegal. Sorry, but a kid who silently prays to himself at an appropriate time will not be slapped with detention. But if you listen to Pat Robertson, you would think that is the case.
Suppose someone wanted to propose that a school set aside five or ten minutes a day so students could pray (silently), take some time to reflect, relax, do some work, read, or just sit and stare at the clock, and I am completely fine with that idea.


And now, the most important point (If you or any conservatives out there are still reading this): Will you vote for a Dem this year? Or will it be Bush again?
Will it depend on who we run? What will it take for a Democrat to get your vote?

Thanks

[Bandit]

54. I wish you could re-phrase your wording

They are not Pro-Life They are anti-abortion. They have no problems with Death Penalty or Tobacco or War or guns or most things that kill. They are only against abortion. I'm am against abortion myself but I am strongly Pro-choice. I am also very much Pro-life. I hate the death penalty and the tobacco industry, and I believe there should be regulation on guns. I believe in the sanctity of life but not in the hypocrisy of the right.

[ComerPerro]

56. Yeah, but I was just trying to use their wording

Normally I hate the term "pro-life". But I was trying to illustrate that many "pro-choice" people are actually "pro-life", but didn't want to bother with the whole tirade on how the right has hijacked the vocabulary on that issue (believe me, the long-winded, self-serving rant I wrote there would have been twice as long had I done that).

Just trying to be user friendly.

LOL

;)

[Hammie]

60. Had a little trouble with the SAT?

Guns and Tobacco are not like Abortion.


Guns and Tobacco are inanimate objects, like scalpels, forks, or cars.

Abortion is an act, like murder, eating, or driving.

Attaching a moral value to peoples' actions is reasonable, even if we disagree on what that moral value should be.

Attaching a moral value to an object is a fetish.

[Toots]

81. Things that kill

That is what I got from the post. How can you support something, be it an act or an object, that kills and call yourself Pro-Life. You can't support tobacco and what it accomplishes and say you are Pro-Life. Abortion is not only an act it is a thing, a noun. It results in death. Guns are designed to "Kill". A real Pro-Lifer doesn't want anything around that is designed to kill. I agree call them what they are Anti-abortion.

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. Hi Marie123

There's nothing wrong with being a conservative.

When you see people complain here (and I am one of them *g*) about the dems being too right-leaning these days it's simply that we don't feel there is a good balance between the dems and repubs any more.

[x-g.o.p.er]

58. Another conservative warmly welcomes you

Hi,

Your post was great and dead on. Just because you vote against a Republican doesn't make you a disloyal American, contrary to current uber-conservative opinion. Just keep putting country above political party. Now, if only everybody could do that, this country would be much better off.

[marie123]

66. right on

I am glad I found this place and I hope you are too.

[pdx_prog]

59. Welcome Marie!

While it is true that our country was in fact built under God, the founding fathers believed so strongly in the freedom of religion that they publically encouraged diversity, and encouraged people of ALL religious believes to regularly attend whatever type of service their faith dictated.

And none of us know how to spell either...lol

[truthspeaker]

61. I would dispute that this country was "built under God"

but ultimately it's irrelevant. The Constitution is very clear that:

- the United States does not and will not have an official religion

- every US citizen is free to practice the religion of his or her choice

[ComerPerro]

63. Great point. Outstanding

It is entirely irrelevant.

All that matters, like you said, is that we have no official religion (the founding fathers were very clear about this) and every citizen is free to choose and practice their religion.

[judge_smales]

72. And of course they were not Christians,

but don't tell the RW that!!

[Jose Diablo]

67. We have a common enemy

The republican party has been hijacked.

The Dixiecrat democrats abandon ship in the 60-70's to join the republican party.

They are now the neo conservatives.

You are a "realist" a "pragmatist". There is nothing wrong with being a realist. Sound fiscal policy is something Democrats believe in also.

These "new" ones though, they hate too much. They left us democrats hoping to find a home for their hate. The republican party has desired to find a "base" to give them power. This base does not deserve power.

I think the republican party will be destroyed by the "new" ones.

It is time to look to another way. The idea of "we" versus "me" is powerful. Progressive agenda is the future IMHO. The world to too small for "me"

Welcome.

[joe_sixpack]

73. Welcome

Glad to see you welcomed here. It hasn't always been so with conservatives.

[ProfessorGAC]

74. Sometimes One Needs A Glaring Light. . .

. . .to see the carnage. Li'l Georgie is just the taper carrier for the bright light their shining on their own disaster. Glad you were watching and saw it revealed.
The Professor

[ignatius]

75. Every person on this board has differences, I am probably

more conservative fiscally than most, but the beauty is, we are all tolerated. We certainly have many differences, but most listen and respond thoughtfully.

One thing we all have in common is the goal of changing this regime..a regime that is destroying the country and our relationships around the world.

Welcome aboard, don't take things too personally(we all have our passions), and speak up. It is interesting to hear the views from the other side.

[IronLionZion]

76. Welcome

we gladly welcome anyone to vote Democratic in November to get this Radical chimp out of office.

More and more conservatives are opening their eyes to see that Bush is definitely not conservative. What is he conserving? Not civil liberties, not the environment, not veterans' benefits. He has increased the size and role of government and has a ridiculous deficit.

Welcome to DU and I hope you stick around.

[depakid]

78. You'll find our greatest strength and our greatest weakness

is tolerance and the ability to see (and often argue) many sides to many issues. That's why we're not "united" under a harsh ideology that runs counter to the best interests of most of its supporters. We each have our own separate beliefs, values and identities, yet still manage to come together for a common purpose.

Personally, I'm a Green, and I've taken some grief for that over the 2 1/2 years that I've been posting here, but unlike some other sites, I've never been run off or banned-

PS: I can't very well spell either; without a spell checker (which this site now has) and an edit button, I'd be either be making a lot of mistakes or constantly going back and forth with MS Word!