Schröder - Call For Troops For Iraq Made Him Sick

[amberdisc]

Chancellor Gerhard Schröder has said a call from his Green Party coalition allies for German troops to join any United Nations force in Iraq made him "want to puke".

Mr Schröder, who was re-elected on the strength of his opposition to the Iraq war, has consistently ruled out such a move.


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On edit: fixed link

[Kellanved]

1. Yes

I'm very pleased with my Chancellor at the moment - if only the economy would gain steam (at least the unemployment fell slightly this month, contrary to all predictions).

[ddoumeche]

2. "Maybe"

The best solution for a job recovery in Germany would have been to devaluate Mark before Euro introduction to regain some competivity lost because of the developpement of other europeans countries and the reunification. Unfortunatly, Kolh wasn't a great economist and Schroeder didn't had the guts to make it because of the Euro's introduction (but it would have just change the parity of euro, nothing dramatic).
What is the most important, inflation or unemployement ?

The situation is even worth now than the ECB is independant from anyone, especially rational minds... so one solution would be to get an hand back on the ECB via the EU parliement.

Und sind wie glucklich.

[gratuitous]

3. This won't make Lil George very happy

He's used to everyone snapping to when he whines.

When we fight, we win. When we Lieberman, we lose.

[Lisa]

4. he should wait until Georgie invites him for dinner ...

... then throw up in his lap, the way Poppy did to the Japanese Prime Minister.

Poetic justice.

[benfranklin1776]

5. Why were the Greens asking for troops to join the coalition?

A fact duly noted in the article by the Social Democratic Party head Franz Muntefering, who stated coyly: "there were
'voices which were a bit strange' among the Greens"

Apparently the source of the comments, Ms. Beer backtracked from them so I gather they were not reflective of Green Party sentiment generally.

[Dirk39]

6. The Greens in Germany are the most opportunistic party...

post-war Germany has seen so far. They are the worst among the 68s and Baby-Boomers, who jumped on the career-train. Very very late but willing to kiss everybodys' feets, as long as the owner throws 2 pennies in their hat.
They are, togeter with Schröder, much worse than even the right-wingers.

They just make you puke. Mrs. Beer, who made this comment, was a prominent member of the german peace movement during the 80ies. Now she has a love affair with a general of our army. The Greens once wanted to reduce weapon-exports. The green/social-democrat coalition now has the highest weapon exports in the history of postwar-Germany.
As much as I kind of like the comments on Germanys' attitude here at DU, I would be very very cautious. Schröder has just completely destroyed the last pieces of "social democracy" in the SPD, he is one of the most aggressive right-wing neoliberals in Europe, much worse than Blair, and Germany had and still has a lot of economic interests in Iraq. German corporations with the silent support of Schröder and the Greens did really support Hussein and the Iraq in order to get contracts and made a lot of money apart from the UN sanctions against Iraq before the war.
The Greens are a very small party in Germany, nearly none of the people, who once were active there, still support them. Only the worst careerists remained there. And it's simply the easiest way for people without any skills or abilities to make a career.
Puking,
Dirk

[Kellanved]

7. The greens aren't "left"

Although they started as a peace party and their party-base is still anti-war.
I have a certain amount of respect for the Green-party leadership, but there are a few demagogues in their ranks. The green economic agenda is very anti-regulation by now, in fact very close to the junior opposition party FDP.


Edit: removed a rant - in retrospect I found it close to attacking another Duer. :hi:

[benfranklin1776]

8. Interesting metamorphisis.

Thank you for the insight. My impression of them I suppose is still firmly rooted in their courageous fights in the 1980s against deployments of the Pershing II missile.

[Dirk39]

9. It's the closeness of ecology to the small-minded middle-class...

I wouldn't be surprised - if the Greens should ever be succesfull in the USA - if the same thing would happen.
All of their issues could be easily translated into a middle-class petit-bourgeois family, who wants to be save.
From the protest against nuclear power stations and the agrar-lobby to small expensive exclusive shops for bio-food in your neighborhood. From the protest against cars poluting our cities to the dream of a private house in a small speed-limit zone. From the individualism of the middle-class, that somehow made them allergic against unions and classic organisations of the working class, even when they considered themselves to be left, to the common pseudo-individualism and escapism of the middle class. Fischer might be the best example: he was a stupid cab-driver. He's the modern version - very similar to Schröder - of a peasant who became a king. He got the job in the government that is reserved for the one, who has no skills at all. One teacher at the university told me, give me anyone, who was going to school for 8 years and within 8 weeks, he's ready to become the german minister for foreign affaires. What's published is just what his advisors put in his mouth anyway. Whenver he's not prepared, he's in a terrible mess. In a way these are people, who were not ment to be part of the elite and they spent most of their youth and adolescent times, fighting fictional fights against capitalism, and then, very very late, politics were their only chance to get a place in society, after the "revolution" didn't work. One interesting side-fact: the most influential greens in Germany now like Tritin, Sager etc. were maoists or stalinists, when they were young. None of them was part of the antiauthoritarian left. It's not that they have given up on their dreams, they never had dreams...
Dirk

[Kellanved]

10. they moved where the votes are

That's democracy. They still have a strong anti-war wing, even in parliament.

Comparing Fischer (who has no degree whatsoever) to Schröder (who started poor (and still isn't rich) and became a lawyer) isn't quite correct.
And: although I have my issues with Fischer I have yet to see him in trouble - even when unprepared. I know for a fact (Berlin has it's advantages to Hamburg) that he terrorizes his advisors- no way that they put anything in his mouth.

And : I don't like your elitist argumentation at all - I don't see coming from a poor family as being a disqualifier for an office.

[Dirk39]

11. Nothing against coming from a poor family, but everything...

against, what the society, we still live in, is doing to them.
Schröder and Fischer are examples of people, who just learned that you have to become an a**hole to reach something, if you're coming from a poor family. And now, this has become the lesson, they try to teach to everyone else. They are exactly, what Marx has called "Lumpenproletariat", or Lumpenintelligentsia. Is this "rogue-proletariat" in english? And there is a kind of rogue-middleclass, too.
And what makes former left-wingers like Schröder and Fischer so unbelievable visionless and cynical is that somehow, they still look at society using a kind of vulgar-marxist perspective, they've just changed their position.
There are millions of people coming from poor families in Germany, having 10 times the moral and intellectual abilities of a Schröder or a Fischer and they will never make it...
One sad thing about postwar germany is, that the traditional political elite has somehow refused to enter the scene again, while the best and most liberal members of this elite left germany, were killed or simply didn't want to enter the political scene again, and this is something that is still harming Germany, making place for mindless idiots like Schröder and Fischer.
Dirk

[benfranklin1776]

12. You make some interesting points which can be applied here as well

Mr. Bush is a prime example of what you cite as weaknesses of Fischer and Schroeder:

"There are millions of people coming from poor families in Germany, having 10 times the moral and
intellectual abilities of a Schröder or a Fischer and they will never make it..."

Substitute USA for Germany and Bush and Cheney for Schroder and Fischer and the statement describes the rot endemic in our political system as well. This rot which is the corrosive influence of money on lawmaking is, sadly, present to a degree in every modern democracy all over the world. The result is, as you say, that large numbers of very decent
and qualified people do not attain positions of power since they shun the political process because it is stacked against them. They
lack the resources to compete in what is increasingly a contest of millionaires at even the lowest levels of
government. I for one would like to see MORE working class and poor people elected to governmental office, since they might be more receptive in their lawmaking to the struggles which their brethern and sistern face, provided, of course, that once elected they do not forget from whence they came, which is what you seem to be saying is the problem with Schroeder and Fischer.

[benfranklin1776]

13. Agreed I think the reverse can be true.

Growing up in a poor family can give one a perspective on human suffering that in theory would make a person a much more compassionate public official if they retained those lessons. Having grown up in a working class family myself I appreciate the absolute need for unions and their benefit to society at large and would strongly champion labor legislation were I ever elected to office. Still though, sadly, human nature being what it is it doesn't always work that way since, to quote Shakespeare's pithy observation of the corrupting influence of power, some "scorn the base degrees by which they doth ascend." Nevertheless, all things considered, I would prefer an elected official tempered by the fires of personal struggle.

[Dirk39]

14. Did you see the danish documentary about Fischer...

"Alles Banditen"
I would highly recommed the film, you can see life and unaware of any camera, how Fischer "terrorizes his advisors".
Bandits
I like cabdrivers,
Dirk

[lebkuchen]

15. "zum kotzen"

"to throw up" in German