Raising retirement age doesn't sound good if you work on the line: Connie Schultz

[Dr.Phool]

Raising retirement age doesn't sound good if you work on the line: Connie Schultz
Published: Sunday, November 07, 2010, 6:00 AM
Connie Schultz


Last Monday, Darwin Cooper looked out at a crowd of several hundred fellow retired autoworkers in Youngstown and started shooting questions.

"How many of you have had surgery for carpal tunnel?" he shouted into the microphone.

More than 50 men and women stood up.

"How many of you have had knee replacements?"

He was just getting started. In interviews during lunch, many of the former autoworkers -- a number of them not yet 60 -- described their hip replacements, foot surgeries, heart bypasses and ripped rotator cuffs. Some ailments evolved through the normal wear and tear of aging, but most were the result of repetitive jobs performed on GM assembly lines at Lordstown.

I asked to meet with the former autoworkers because the White House is considering changes in Social Security. Currently, the normal retirement age to qualify for full benefits is 66, but that will rise to 67 by 2022. Soon-to-be Speaker of the House John Boehner, a Republican, has advocated raising the age as high as 70. A few Democrats have proposed similar changes.

(snip)

Cheerleaders for older retirement tend to be people whose idea of a hard day's work is to loosen their ties for a late-night call to a campaign donor. Or, as retired autoworker Ella Johnson put it to me, "They've never worked on an assembly line or in a coal mine, but sit behind desks and write laws for those of us who do."

(snip)more

http://www.cleveland.com/schultz/index.ssf/2010/11/putting_cars_together_while_fa.html#_login

[valerief]

1. The lawmakers just want to bleed the slaves. Nothing can change with

Republicans wielding power.

[madrchsod]

2. i`m busted up by working the steel forming industry since 73...

all i have is my wife`s insurance for another year and my social security.

we are just another obsolete machine...

[Solly Mack]

3. K&R

"They've never worked on an assembly line or in a coal mine, but sit behind desks and write laws for those of us who do."

!!!!

[dkf]

4. Don't these workers get a pension?

My parents retired from their state jobs at age 55. When they hit social security age it was all gravy. They bring in more money than they ever did when they were working as their retirement pension at age 55 paid pretty much 100% of their regular salary. Plus when they hit Medicare age they had double coverage from their retirement plan and the federal government.

Workers with pensions aren't the ones who will rely on Social Security to retire...it's the rest of the non unionized who will.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. hardly anyone gets a pension anymore outside of government jobs

and state and local governments are trying to weasel out of those pensions too. Only 14% of the workforce is unionized and many of those are in government jobs.

[dkf]

10. Yet the workers in this story are unionized and that provides a pension.

Frankly their risk is that their pension will be adequate enough and they may be means tested out of social security benefits period.

[alarimer]

32. Some government workers do not get SS.

Many school districts here in Texas do not pay into SS for their employees. So many teachers have to work extra jobs to qualify for SS. I am not sure how widespread this practice is among government employees but it does happen.

[bemildred]

12. Non-governmental pensions generally assume you get social security too.

I worked 12 years union in the 60s and 70s, got vested, I now get $200 a month pension during my lifetime. That will just about cover the cost of Medicare and the supplemental crap.

Government compensation and retirement programs are all over the place depending on where you work.

[dkf]

13. So if the Government reduces SS does that increase the union's obligations?

[bemildred]

15. No, pensions are "defined benefit" plans.

But the SS expectation is factored in when the pensions are negotiated. One does not want to short current income either. We were told this at the time when the contracts were up for a vote. SS is a "defined benefit" plan too, so it makes sense to coordinate them, to consider them together.

I was, to be honest, pleasantly surprised to get anything out of it after thirty years.

Edit: the company sent SSI a statement in 1983 or thereabouts which said I would get the $200 when I retire (now), and that's what I get. No COLA.

[bemildred]

16. PS: the OP is correct, most of the physical problems I have now go

back to issues that caused me to give up that line of work. I used to know guys that were hanging in there until they were 65, and they were essentially crippled by a lifetime of abusing their bodies to make a living.

[Dr.Phool]

17. Until the pension plan winds up underfunded and gets sent to the PBGC.

Where it takes a major whack.

[old mark]

5. I had several heart attacks and a quintuple bypass in 2003, but I worked till

2007 so my pension would be enough to cover my health insurance. After that monthly bill is paid, I have about $120 left of my state pension, and no dental care. I have some social security, which I got at the minimum age, thus the minimum amount. I'm not complaining - I have other money from some lucky investments - but most people who want to work till their 70's or so don't do physical or dangerous of mentally stultifying work and are nor physically and mentally worn out by age 60.

Let those who wish work as long as they wish, but let those who want to experience SOME life free of wage slavery, disability or the nursing home the means to do so and not be so eager to dictate to others how their lives must be lived.

There really is nothing very wrong with the social security fund now except that there are a lot of politicians wanting to give it to their friends on Wall street.

This issue is bullshit.

mark

[alarimer]

33. I agree with you.

I work a physically demanding job and recognize the toll it is already taking on me. I have no injuries so far but many people I work with have back injuries or other problems that will severely curtail their enjoyment of whatever retirement they have, if they don't just drop dead at work.

Quite frankly, I am tired of the notion that we are all supposed to work until we die. Or that people who don't or can't work are worthless. Our work simply enriches the fat cats. They make millions off the back-breaking labor of others. The least they can do is fully fund pensions to make later years easier on people.

I've been reading A People's History of the United States and, boy, am I pissed off. I've become even more radical than I thought possible. I want to string up bankers and fat cats from the nearest tree.

[stray cat]

6. Mika on morning Joe stated desk jobs were harder on health -she needs a manual job for a day

[Scuba]

7. Let her try plastering, hanging drywall, moving patients, loading trucks. Then ask her again.

[Dr.Phool]

18. I had a fairly easy job for 31 years.

Sitting behind the controls of a locomotive.

But, the constant vibration, jarring, and jerking ruined my back over time. Sometimes, when it gets really bad, and I take an oxycodone (rarely), I can walk into the kitchen if I hold onto the wall. And that started before I was 50 years old.

[CLANG]

24. I really feel for you Dr.

And oxycodone works well for pain, but it's addictive as hell. I can see why you rarely take it. Good luck to you!

[era veteran]

26. Thankful that it is there

I'm 56 and sometimes that is the only way I can work. Don't think I can work until I'm 70. That is their plan, though. Use you and throw you away.

[Dr.Phool]

27. 60 pills will last me over a year.

Only when absolutely necessary.

[bemildred]

19. How would she know?

Different jobs affect your health in different ways. Heavy manual labor will break your body down early. Sedentary work will give you "life style" issues. High stress will have yet another set of consequences. Mika knows nothing about any of that, yet.

[Hawkowl]

21. Knee pads would help her discomfort...nt

[Warren Stupidity]

8. raising the retirement age is fucking bullshit that should cause riots in the streets. nt

[fasttense]

14. I most heartly agree with you Warren

Considering the fact that we Baby Boomers not only paid for our Parent's Social Security retiment but we also paid for our own. That is what is in the Socail Security Trust Fund. The extra, double payments we put in to cover our own retirments.

And now our government does not want to pay the bill. They took our money and now want to renig on the deal.

[CLANG]

25. France just wanted to raise it to 62 and they had riots!

[xchrom]

11. recommend

[WestSeattle2]

20. It makes no sense to set a retirement age without taking into

account the craft, trade, or profession of the individual. We do it for law enforcement and fire fighters, why not everyone else?

I've worked in blue collar industrial environments - the vast majority of my previous co-workers will be hard-pressed to make it to 65, let alone 70.

How would you like to be outside in 40 degree weather with rain blowing sideways, crawling on your hands and knees trying to fix a pump motor on a generator? Or working a truck assembly line day after day, year after year, where a new Class 8 truck is completed every 20 minutes? De-generative diseases are a fact of life; very few of us make it cradle to grave without experiencing chronic, sometimes painful health conditions. While not catastrophic enough to qualify for disability, these conditions often make work-life miserable. Forcing workers in physically demanding jobs to work another three or five years is not a viable option, in my opinion.

I would suggest a 40-year eligibility rule for full social security benefits. At whatever age you've completed 40 "work years" (2080 hours x 40 = 83,200 hours) you're eligible for full benefits. For blue collar workers, many would be eligible in their late 50's, since most started work right out of high school. However, the odds of a blue collar worker working from age 18-58 without being laid off periodically, is slim to none. Most would probably qualify in their early 60's. Desk jockeys on the other hand, most of whom attended college and didn't start working full time until age 25 or so, would not be eligible until around age 70 - if not beyond.

This would go a long way in addressing multiple concerns - it will help social security finances (higher paid white collar workers would not be collecting maximum social security benefits until later in life), but it would also get many workers out the door sooner - opening up jobs for younger workers. Also, during periods of "normal" unemployment, many would aggressively seek work, even if its outside their chosen craft, trade or profession, simply because they want to meet the 83,200 hour eligibility as soon as possible. That would save on unemployment benefits. For those reasons, I believe this is a win-win proposal.

[Populist_Prole]

22. Can't believe the comments made by some at the original article

About 2/3rds of them are either of the "deal with it" sneering from pompous white collar pricks variety; Or of the teabagger anti-government/anti-union/ viva le capitalism types terrified of socialism.

Brainwashed turds.

[PATRICK]

23. Hard work and the finish line

brings up another turn of the screw. If our new postal contracts were to go management's way there would be irresistible incentives to continue the system in place now regardless of retirement age. That is, despite "technological advances" the current human machine interface is extremely pressurized and rigorous with fewer if any jobs for people who become disabled. Under the two tier system that has been done during periods of economic hardship why not let the current system grind the older workers down so they can be replaced with cheaper workers- much cheaper with fewer benefits and a castrated union.
Meanwhile the older workers are ground down short of the new finish line to retirement? All early retirement offers by the USPS have been grudging and ungenerous as it is.

We have met with the occasional OSHA review and mentioned their NOT using the technonogy on the floor at times burdening older manual workers with more heavy lifting than ever. And even in light volume times, weekly bulges in volume meaning over high stacking, lifting and rushing, shifting constantly to keep them running through breaks and lunches show the older work the double stress that a routinely short week will bring as they CUT the work force and backup the flow.

More deaths come from the easier, less physical manual sortation jobs in highly reduced work areas probably because those in bad health have nowhere else to go and gluing them there increases embolisms and poor circulation. You'd think all the talk and training about ergonomics would actually get somewhere, but overall the system is a meatgrinder, intentionally. The end result IMHO is a sweatshop, not sleek robots, a work house with disposable cheap labor, non-unionized under the control of what the centralized future seems to be favoring- bulk ad mailers privatizers.

The big picture is much much worse than just its effects on older victims. If the horse manure about that cozy pasture at the end was even true, that carrot is getting pushed away farther and the work more punishing as the salaried benefits also decline. As for the younger worker, they would be better off overthrowing the whole applecart.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. Hoping that they'll die before they can collect benefits.

[The Wizard]

29. Raising the retirment age will serve

Wall Street well. It will keep unemployment high and create a downward pressure on wages as the working class will have to settle for lower wages, thus increasing the corporate bottom line.
The solution is to raise the ceiling where the withholding tax is imposed.
Yes the Republicans will call it a job killer because the wealthy will hire fewer employees. Anyone who believes Republicans gets what they deserve.
How may jobs were created with Bush's trickle down rip off?

[bemildred]

30. Not only that, more people will die before they get to retire.

This will help Social Security too, you don't ever have to pay all that money back.

[alarimer]

31. People who work physically demanding jobs should get to retire earlier than others.

Say 55 or so and at 100% of their salaries.

People who sit on their asses all day should be allowed to retire no earlier than 65, assuming they are normally healthy.

Let's face, working in front of a desk all day is not really "work".