So I Dated a Republican Girl

[Joanne98]

Yes, I went there. And I lived to tell about it here.

She was the first girl I ever dated. I was 17, she was 16, when we started (I was a late arrival on the teenage dating scene). It was great at first. She was beautiful. Also fashionable, talkative, and confident; basically, everything I was not. Then, about a month in, we stopped in at Borders Books and Music. We walked past a prominent display of Michael Moore books and DVDs, set up to capitalize on the recent DVD release of "Fahrenheit 9/11". She points to the display, sneers with those full, shiny lips of hers, and says: "I hate him."

I laughed. "Really?"
"Yes."
I laughed again. "Why?"
"He's a jerk."

I smiled, shook my head, and we kept walking. I figured she was at least partially kidding. I was totally wrong.

kwolfman's diary :: :: I've heard and read in many places that politics is one of those subjects on which couples can easily disagree without it affecting their relationship. In general, I have to disagree. Not because politics alone usually has that kind of effect on people, but because vast differences in political philosophy are often symptomatic of equally vast differences in value systems. And people who look at the world in contradictory ways, more often than not, are not a good match. Every substantive conversation--about current events, history, lifestyle, career goals, family, faith, and even fashion--is at risk of degenerating into an argument. We see this dynamic play out every day in Congress, with Democrats and Republicans unable to "come together" and "compromise" because in the end, their values are so fundamentally different that real negotiation is near-impossible. Relationships, whether romantic and platonic, are ultimately no different. A socialist and a blue dog might still be a good match because their worldviews, while not terribly similar, run roughly in the same basic direction. But a socialist and a conservative Republican run head-on into each other on just about every topic of substance, and many of no substance.

I found this out the hard way. I'm not a socialist, but I am a moderate-to-liberal Democrat. She, of course, was a conservative Republican. I surf Daily Kos, she perused Michelle Malkin's blog (seriously). I watch MSNBC, she soaked in FOX News (naturally). I voted for Obama in the 2008 primaries, she went for Romney, because Mussolini wasn't on the ballot (kidding... i think).

For the most part, we successfully blocked out our differences on this matter. After all, love matters most, right? I learned to keep my mouth shut when she said something politically objectionable to me. But it wore me down nonetheless, the slow trickle of comments and observations about politics and the world that I found wrong (these are paraphrased):

1."I think conservatives have a stronger moral compass."
2."I'm sorry, I just can't believe that humans evolved from monkeys."
3."Liberals always seem to take the side of the underdog. I don't get why you'd do that."
4."I think global warming is real, but I don't think it's anywhere near as serious as some people say it is."
5."When I have kids, I'm going to give them this book I found on Amazon. It's called 'Help, Mommy, There's a Liberal under my Bed!'" (seriously)
6."I saw a shirt for sale online that said 'Liberalism is a Mental Disorder' on the front... I think it's true ."
And on and on and on. I was a young guy in the throes of young immature love, so for the sake of a peaceful coexistence I didn't respond out loud. But inside my own head, I did. To #1, I thought "Perhaps, but it's pointed in the wrong direction." To #2, I thought "Why the hell not?!". To #3, I thought "What's so bad about helping someone who needs it?" To #4, I thought "WHY THE HELL NOT?!". I won't even start on #'s 5 and 6.

And although I kept these thoughts to myself, it turns out their effect on our relationship was the same as if I'd screamed them into her ears with a megaphone. I found myself rolling my eyes at her, scoffing at her under my breath, slowly losing my respect for her both as a student (she was a political science major, like myself) and a human being. So, when the primary season heated up last January, the filter on my political mouth ruptured, and I started speaking my mind. I rebutted her inaccurate statements, challenged her viewpoints, tried to get her to open her mind and think more deeply and compassionately. And over the next two months, our relationship totally went to shit. We argued about politics, about current events, about religion, and eventually about--of all things--fashion: I made a couple half-joking remarks about her excessive (in my view) fixation on all things stylish, trendy, material, and expensive (she worked at Abercrombie and Fitch), and before you know it we were yelling through the phone.

We temporarily patched things up in March and I re-installed the filter, but by then I think we both knew it wasn't meant to be. We broke up in June. And only then did I realize just how wrong the relationship had been from the start. We were a bad match from Day One because our political convictions betrayed fundamentally opposite, and irreconcilable, views of the world (my view: progressive but practical; her view: wingnutty). For example, she insisted on sending any children of hers to Catholic school (to promote "good values"), while I'm a true believer in public schooling, and you can't send your kid to two schools at once.

When you think about relationships this way, the whole talking-point debate over "bipartisanship" in Washington becomes much clearer. Specifically, it becomes clear that true bipartisanship can never work in the current political climate. Forty years ago, Democrats were center-left as a party, and Republicans were center-right. That's a gap you could theoretically cross, because both sides touched the center. Today, the Democrats are still roughly center-left, but the Republicans are far-right. The gap is know a gaping chasm. For any equal compromise to occur, both sides have to take huge leaps away from not just specific policy positions, but core defining principles. And no self-respecting man or woman is going to sacrifice those unless he or she is literally staring death in the face. If the Democratic and Republican parties were dating, one would be sleeping on the couch every night.

In regards to health care reform, the search for bipartisanship and "middle ground" has been a fruitless exercise because, for Republicans, the middle is way across that gaping chasm. They find it far better for them to stay on their side and fire stink-bombs than make that gigantic leap from selfishness to sanity. Which is why this news made me literally shout and pump my fist earlier tonight.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/19/769210/-So-I-Dated-a-Republican-Girl

[rosesaylavee]

1. Yes, there was a time when two people of dif parties

could get together. My marriage is an example. When I married my husband, I was the product of a fairly conservative, Republican family. And he was so good at not talking about it I didn't know he was a lifelong Democrat until I confessed to him that I was going to vote for Clinton. I don't recognize the person I used to be esp after the 2000 election which radicalized my thinking so far to the Left it left some in my family in the dust for a years before they caught to my thinking this past election cycle.

Good thing these two kids didn't marry. What a mess that would have been.

[zbdent]

5. It may be because Dem/Lib males are probably more likely to accept that

a woman/girlfriend/wife can have her own opinions and speak her own mind ...

Repugs/Righty males are probably more likely to require that their girlfriend/wife conform to the man's opinion (remember, Father knows best), which would lead to the wife appearing more "moderate" (when she's allowed to voice her opinion, after the husband tells her what it should be).

[rosesaylavee]

28. There is that.

He is a very much live and let live guy. Or he was when I married him. I frequently have to remind him that the idiots on the radio and television can't hear his rants. :)

[WestSeattle2]

37. You nailed it. One of my female friends is a liberal, but when

she's with her repug husband, she just nods at his inanities along with everyone else.

Whatever. No one's listening. Keep babbling away, repeating the "ditto" lines.

Yawn.

[Omar4Dems]

12. Are Carville and Malkin still together?

Talk about strange bedfellows! :shrug:

But your point is well-taken...that kind of marriage has to be a rarity anymore.

[mwb970]

19. Carville and *Matalin*.

Even Carville could never put up with Crazy-Eyes Michelle. But as far as I know, he's still with Mary.

[katkat]

26. the money party

I have always thought that Carville and Matalin were primarily interested in making money, not politics.

[rosesaylavee]

27. I think they are

and given her poisonous nature, I just can't trust him. Especially after his betrayal of Kerry after the 2004 election. What a creep he is.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. My husband was apolitical when we married

I changed that, which was fairly easy to do--but to this day he says that if he had been a Republican, I wouldn't have given him the time of day. :)

Thing is, it's just like the OP said--there is a difference in fundamental philosophy. I can't imagine any members of my Sufi order being Republican--Green, yes, but not Republican. The GOP philosophy is too different from the Ten Sufi Thoughts. http://www.sufiorder.org/ten_thoughts.html

[corpseratemedia]

3. it is a "gaping chasm"..it'll never be bridged

having been in his shoes i know it's also pointless because their range of life experiences are very narrow and so is their ability to think for themselves

[DailyGrind51]

4. "I'm sorry, I just can't believe that humans evolved from monkeys."

Did you ever ask her if she noticed how much "W" resembled a chimpanzee?

[gtar100]

48. If they have a problem with the monkey stage, they'll flip at the slimy goo phase.

They'd rather believe in magic.

[Tab]

6. That's nothing

I dated a libertarian.

Fortunately I married a Democrat. Unfortunately, most of her family is Republican, whether they know it or not.

If only it was a librarian.

I'm happy with the choice I made, though. The other one was too hot to handle.

[Raster]

11. Libertarian = rethuglican that smokes pot.

[Tab]

38. She personally didn't

Too bad. That might have made it interesting. I wouldn't say she'd be a "high-maintnence" wife - she was incredibly self-sufficient - but I wouldn't want to be in a fight or argument with her.

[Warpy]

7. My mother was a registered Republican who voted Socialist

when they were on the ticket and for the Democrat when they weren't. My dad was a registered Democrat who loved his tax cuts and hadn't voted for a Democrat since Adlai Stevenson.

Political conversations when I was growing up were, um, pungent.

I found my mother's side more compelling and grew up Socialist. My dad and I reached an armed truce when I was 20.

I have no idea what kept them together all those years, but together they stayed until she died in 2003. I'm glad to say my dad's last vote was for Kerry in 2004. I was speechless when he told me that and I'm not speechless often.

I do know I've never been able to have any sort of friendship with a hard right Republican. The world view is too different and utterly repellent to me. I do have close friends who can be described as Eisenhower Republicans, decent but wrong. Good people get to be wrong.

Love doesn't conquer all. In fact, it conquers very little. The most one can expect it to do is create a Mexican standoff like the one my dad and I had.

[FormerDittoHead]

8. I got one. Have your girlfriend give you a copy of "The Fountainhead" to read.

...that one didn't last. I'm not much of a reader. Can't tell you the weeks of my life I lost on that one.

[Joanie Baloney]

9. I dated one too

for about 2 weeks. I said something 'liberal' and he said "Oh - you're a Democrat?!! Ewww. Don't worry, I'll convert you."

That was the end of that.

Well, that and the fact he was a farter.

Ewww.


:)

-JB

[pipi_k]

10. I don't think it's true

that people with differing ideologies can't ever be together, or eventually find some common ground.

Mr Pip and I have been together nearly 15 years. On some things we were as opposite as opposites can be. Maybe it's due to our ages, or maybe there were other things we DID have in common that enabled us to work through some pretty rough patches, but after all these years we've each managed to understand, if not actually share parts of, the other's viewpoints on many things.

Actually, what's funny is that he's become a lot more liberal than he used to be. His kids even say so, that he's changed... And I've come a bit more to the center from the far Left.

Of course, that's just dealing with somewhat minor differences, compared to someone's believing in Adam and Eve and the rest of the insanity.

I don't think I could be with someone who thought like that, to tell the truth.


I guess in the end what I'm saying is that rejecting a relationship with someone based on political viewpoints could cause people to miss out on an otherwise good and interesting life, and I think you did the right thing in at least giving this girl a chance.

:)

[whathehell]

13. I just found out my DOCTOR is a republican and I'm thinking of getting rid of her!

..Didn't realize it until we had this discussion on healthcare...She's against the Public Option...I couldn't believe a professional could be so ignorant (and I do live in a blue state)..She kept repeating Republican talking points like: "I worked hard for ever thing in my life"!...and "We're Capitalists..Europe is Socialist"!.

Since I just returned from Europe and I have to see her for a sore throat, I might be inclined to "report" to her that Europe still has a thriving private sector.

As my boyfriend pointed out, she may think that Mercedes Benz is a car made by the "socialist" German state. :eyes:

[wolfgangmo]

34. If she isn't looking close at these issues then she also isn't looking close ...

... at your care. She is, as we say in the medical industry, using the recipe book; "this symptom plus this symptom is equal to this prescription. Do not, under any circumstances, do anything that might cause an insurance company to look sideways at any claim, even if it means that patients die."

I own a medical practice with zero fools like that working for me. Trust me when I say that she will do nothing for you and will sleep well at night after you die because she decided not to take the extra step.

[whathehell]

44. Thanks for your input on this.

To be honest, she does seem like a caring doctor, but i'm thinking of leaving anyway...I just don't think I can take another Rightie in my life anymore.

[The Wizard]

40. I wouldn't put my health in the hands of a Republican

I do know some Republican practitioners but I wouldn't trust them to take my blood pressure. They lie without compunction, have thought disorders compounded with loose associations, and they're more interested in making money than their patients' well being.
Fact is I won't even talk to Republicans. Mental defectives only waste your time.

[whathehell]

45. Thanks for your input...As I told Wolfgangmo,

to be fair, she does seem like a caring physician, but I get what you mean about the "thought disorders compounded with loose associations". I believe I will be looking elsewhere.

[supernova]

14. I'm dating someone who calls himself a repub

but I dunno.

I think he's more practical than that. He says he liked Reagan, (of course,) however:

- Agrees Dick Cheney is evil and must be prosecuted in a just world.
- * is indeed a stupid dupe
- Thinks they were asleep at the switch on 9-11
- Agrees that we need UHC.
- Is very complimentary when I go off to do my liberal activities.
- Takes it for granted that women are of equal worth in life and in the market place

His mom was a good old fashioned pro labor Catholic for many years, so he may be rebelling against that.

I have no idea if this will last, but we are having fun so far. :-)

[Apollo11]

16. It looks like you are having a positive influence!

Keep up the good work! ;-)

[supernova]

18. He came like that!

No prompting by me needed. ;-)

If we wind up together longer term, perhaps I can help him down my road, but he's fine like he is for me.

:loveya:

[sweetpotato]

30. Sounds like an old school republican

Used to be, the republicans weren't so far to the right that middle ground could be found. Compromise was possible.

They used to THINK, rather than just react.

Now, most of them are trained to react with talking points when they hear the dog whistle. Compromise is impossible when you are talking to a "dining room table."

[Apollo11]

15. How could I love someone who does not respect by beliefs?

That would be like a black person falling in love with a white supremacist.

A total waste of time and a certain recipe for pain and heartache down the road.

[tilsammans]

17. The minute the talking points start . . .

When I was online dating, the first thing I'd look at in the profile was the political affiliation. If it was any variation of "conservative," it was an auto-ixnay.

I did meet a few who had designated their politics as "Middle of the Road." And it wasn't long after we met that they'd start with the same tired Dittohead talking point vomit. You know, how Hillary and Bill Clinton's marriage is a "business arrangement," etc.

:puke:

Buh-bye.

[Fearless]

20. Sure it's possible...

But I'd tend to say that those of different party affiliations who do get together must value that relationship above their political ideals. Otherwise, there would be no mutual respect in the relationship and thus no real relationship.

[southernyankeebelle]

21. Boy do I relate to you - I have a sister who is well education and graduated at the top of her class

. She owns her own medical practice. She said if she could have voted for Bush a 3rd time she would have. Not because he was great at being president. No she would have voted for him because he gave her small business at tax break. I told her that it was time that the middle class and the working poor in the country got a tax break. I told her to cut back on her vacations that she took every year. There was a point that I even hated her because she was a republican. I reminded her where she came from and her background of working family. We are a democrat family with the exception of her and another sister who is against abortion. Both of these sisters weren't very religious when they were young. One sister's husband cheated on her yet they were very critical of Clinton. They make me sick. Now we do not talk politics at all. I make sure before hand that I tell them if we get together no politics. Its bigger than me. I can't help it. I have a sister who has spent many years in college and graduated with honors. Yet she buys some of the crap that goes on. All she cares about is her own. I told her that was the difference between democrats and republicans. Republicans only think about themselves. She yelled at me and said she worked damn hard for what she had. I agreed that she did. I told her why should I feel different about the way I feel because my husband and I worked hard for what we got to. I feel we need a tax break. We made less than $40,000 a yr. I know she makes alot of money. She deserves every penny. But we need the tax break a whole lot more. That is when I told her to cut back on her vacations. My husband and I never went on vacations except to visit my family back home. While she has gone to europe, and around the US. I am happy for her. I was lucky enough to travel the world while my husband was in the military for 21 yrs.

[wolfgangmo]

32. What your idiot sister doesn't understand is that...

.. the biggest pain in a medical practice would go away - poof - under single payer.

I know. I own a medical practice too and we stepped away from insurance companies a few years ago and have been happier ever since. Besides she would be able to get better administrative help if more corporate drones who HATE their jobs didn't have to feel tied to those jobs because of group health benefits.

Basically she is a tool and she doesn't know it.

[Wednesdays]

22. In the 1980s I had a girlfriend who was with the Christian Coalition

She was at one time a big PTL Club fan and a die-hard foot soldier for Pat Robertson, as was her whole family. Interesting family, that. Without going into details, let's just say there was rampant hypocrisy, particularly in the sexual arena.

She and I had some interesting (and sometimes heated) debates. She was really intelligent, but was seriously brain-washed. She talked like a fundie (I can't describe it in a paragraph; it is almost like another language, with a whole different vocabulary than other people). She kept a red-white-and-blue stuffed elephant doll on her dresser, showing support of the Republican Party. She was a Republican delegate to the 1984 and 1986 state conventions.

However, she'd often show me some ridiculously dogmatic thing published by the fundies and ask, "Is this wrong?" She'd ask in such a way that hinted she thought it was wrong, but somehow needed my validation before she'd "change her mind" about it. So, I'd say, "What do you think?" which surprised her, because "thinking for oneself" was always suppressed by her family and church. After a while, she began questioning things on her own and making independent decisions, and her whole way of thinking and talking changed dramatically.

This led to her church trying to tighten their grip on her...her fellow church members sifted through her trash, trying to find out what she was up to. This actually made her question her whole belief system even more, and when her pastor went to our college to grill her professors about her activities, she quit them for good.

We were together for about a year, after which she left me for another guy...but I don't feel too bad because the guy was anything but a Robertson fan (he was more of a flip-flop wearing artistic type). By that time, she had long given up regurgitating Repuke talking points (I'm sure she's never gone back to the Christian Coalition), and and at worst I'd say she was more of an "Independent" (or perhaps even leaning Dem!). I never forced my views on her--this was all a result of her choosing her own political path, although I was the impetus for her change. I'm glad I helped at least one person climb out of the Dark Ages.

[sledgehammer]

23. #2 is basically a disqualifier for anyone I meet.

I can still understand how the generation that preceded us holds on to these sorts of beliefs. Mainly because information was not so easily available, and religious preachers were never challenged.

But for someone in today's world to deny evolution, I really don't know what to say. So it's best just to walk away.

[LuckyLib]

24. For someone so young she was remarkably propagandized.

She had someone in her family who yammered non stop on these "talking points" and it all sunk in.
You are right about fundamental differences -- there is no bridging opposing beliefs about human rights, compassion, or basic beliefs about community.

[crim son]

25. I've been dating a registered republican on and off for two and a half years.

I have no idea why he calls himself republican except he was raised with that label and he doesn't have a problem holding on to it even in the face of the shit repugs have pulled the last several decades. He's been known to have said a couple stupid things, one of them, "Glenn Beck makes sense," but there is no question that he has reconsidered that point. He never voted for the shrub, he does volunteer work for the food pantry, he isn't religious though he's fine with religion as long as it doesn't get involved with government policy. He is an active supporter of gay rights, gay marriage - he's a member of the local Bridge Alliance - He supports the public option or even single-payer, he thought the war was bogus and he knew why... but he calls himself a repug. As long as I don't bring up him changing his affiliation, we have nothing to argue about so I don't, and we don't. He's actually more liberal than my ex-husband who was raised Catholic and is stuck in the medieval mindset on certain social issues.

My situation might be rare, but it exists and is a lesson as to why we must continue to listen even after we hear the words "I'm repuglican." I say, give 'em ten seconds. :P

[LeftishBrit]

29. My sticking point would be No. 3...

While I realize that the underdog isn't ALWAYS right, I would find it difficult to be close with someone whose general policy is to root against the underdog. Especially if they carried this attitude into their daily life.

I certainly have friends who vote Tory; but they don't have this sort of generally harsh attitude. For that matter, I've come across this 'weaklings don't deserve support or help' attitude from one or two people who *didn't* vote Tory.

I know that the former Socialist Prime Minister of Norway, Gro Harlem Brundlandt, is married to a prominent member of her country's Conservative Party; and they've managed to stay married for nearly 50 years! However, I doubt that Norwegian Conservatives are anything like as right-wing as American Republicans.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. I married a religious and politcal conservative. We were high school sweethearts and

I was closer to his religious positions, at least, at the time. It can be hard having such different opinions on things. We very rarely talk politics or religion any more, but at least we don't have screaming fights now. (Although, I think we have outgrown that phase finally anyway.)

On the plus side, our kids are pretty good for little guys in terms of thinking for themselves. Despite their dad insisting on them going to his conservative evangelical church, they aren't lapping up the dogma and are pretty skeptical of some of the superstitious beliefs. That might have a lot to do with me making them watch a tons of science shows throughout their little lives, particularly about the Big Bang and so forth. We'll see how it goes. If it starts to look like they are getting sucked in (which is what happened to me in my teen years when life was so unstable) I'll have to do an intervention.

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[wolfgangmo]

35. Oink, Oink.

There was a phase I went through when I only dated republican anti-abortion girls. Why? To be completely piggish about it, they were easier and as long as vanilla sex was all I was interested in, it was OK.

Cut me some slack. This was a LONG time ago. I have since become much more discerning. But if you are looking for a quick easy shag, then ... well. Ahem.

[jaysunb]

36. LOL !

Looking back 45-50 years ago, I'll forever be grateful for the girls Catholic school in my neighborhood. There was never a dull moment or lack of passion in the backseat of my 49 Merc. :evilgrin:

[santamargarita]

39. Any whiff of that Republican stench would be dump her ass time

:puke:

[liam_laddie]

41. My S.O. and I can count

rethug "friends" on one hand or maybe just two fingers. They are an alien, introduced species who need to be flushed out of the ecosystem immediately. Burmese pythons in FL? Snakeheads in the SE? Meh, let's extinguish the Blue Canines, Red state Senators, and all who parrot them. Include Rush, Sean, Lou, all the Foxes and RW Rant Radio, too! Restore Nature to a more peaceful, benign state.

[BobTheSubgenius]

42. I often read the discussion threads after linking to an article like that.

This was the best so far:

***********************************

In the early Reagan years I was on a friendly basis with girls from church and a couple were unbelievable - like "if we didn't spend all our money building special ramps for wheelchair people, we'd " (I guess this was not too long after the ADA became law). And after we went to a Shakespeare play where the lead actor was black (actually a light mulatto) she says "he only got this role because of his affirmative action", in spite of having said she liked the acting. And so on. This was in NJ, not the deep South.

And this was not a particularly fundamentalist church. This sort of stuff has always been around.


*************************************

I'm sure you're thinking the same thing I did - as did my son, actually:

"OH!!! Please, please, please...let it have been Othello."


All that aside, I couldn't agree more with the premise. I could never possibly live with, or even coexist with, a person with views that opposed to my own. I have a friend from small town Alberta, and that is sometimes more than I can manage.

[KakistocracyHater]

43. so you're a boy

I usually get the opposite. I thought you were a woman. I am. I'm not a boy.

[uberllama42]

46. I could never date someone who didn't believe in evolution

I almost did once in high school, but it didn't get very far for other reasons. I still know the girl through facebook; she is way less religious and has become an outspoken advocate for gay rights.

I have no doubt, knowing the girl she was four or five years ago, that if we had been an item it would have ended because of her ideas about God and evolution. I just can't be around people who are so detached from reality without getting into debates all the time. I would have hounded her and messed up the relationship beyond repair.

[zbdent]

47. Not quite at the same level, but ... Mrs. ZBDent is a Browns fan

(grown up in Cleveland Ohio, never left), while I, a native of a rural suburb of Pittsburgh, am a Steelers guy.

While dating, I knew not to be near her parents' house on Stillers v Browns day ...

This past May, we celebrated 19 years together, and looking to have many more.

:loveya::hug::pals::fistbump::woohoo::thumbsup::D

[CitizenPatriot]

49. THe most dangerous

far right republicans I've met recently (south) all claim to be "independents" and "moderates", and then proceed with their view on how black people are "racists".

I just can't listen to it.

Ended a few "friendships" over that before the election. Weird thing was that they were all nice people-- would help anyone, hard-working, kind. But then spouting off things they've been taught to believe without question and it just blew my mind. Brings up the issue of language-- just how important is it? Because the language they use is very different from their actual actions sometimes.

The thing I can't stand is the sneer they all get when they say, "oh, so you're a liberal?" Sometimes I respond, "I'm a fiscal conservative. Which means I vote Democratic." Comprehension level of that statement? Zero. I guess these folks just aren't paying attention.