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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:10 PM
Original message
H-1B legislation alarms India's government
April 28, 2009 - 3:11 P.M.

top Indian official, as well the country's major IT industry group, reacted harshly to H-1B legislation introduced last week by U.S. Sens. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), calling it protectionism and for good reason. It may raise the cost of their product: IT services.

The legislation includes a provision that "prohibits companies with having more than 50% of their workforce using H-1B and L-1 visas," according to statement this weekend from India's largest IT industry group, the National Association of Software and Services Companies (NASSCOM). "This provision unfairly stacks the deck against foreign companies operating in the U.S. because U.S. companies are highly likely to have a high percentage of America employees."

The 50% visa restriction in the Grassley/Durbin bill will impede the ability of Indian firms to bring largely young and mobile workers into the U.S. The restrictions will force them to increase the size of their permanent U.S. workforces, which will likely increase costs and hurt their ability to compete against U.S.-based IT services vendors.

Imposing this visa restriction may be no different, from the Indian perspective, than the U.S. imposing a tariff on imported steel to protect domestic makers.

The Grassley/Durbin bill has the attention of India's government. The country's commerce and industry minister, Kamal Nath, in a statement last weekend, said the legislation is "not in line with the U.S. president's stand against protectionism ..."

U.S. IT firms, which have already established big offshore operations, aren't impacted by the Grassley/Durbin bill, and that's why NASSCOM says it "unfairly stacks the deck" against India companies. The Indian government and trade group are being frank.

Offshore outsourcing isn't going away and there is nothing in the Grassley/Durbin bill that changes this global trend. But the bill may succeed in putting a focus on this question: Is the U.S. expediting the shift of jobs offshore through its visa policies?

If NASSCOM is asked testify on the use of the visa, it will likely bring the argument it outlined in its statement about the Grassley/Durbin bill:

"Contrary to some perceptions, H-1 B visas are actually used to provide technically qualified talent that is in short supply, to open new markets, and to accelerate innovation and increase competitiveness for US companies. H1-B visas are not used to displace American workers."


A number of people commented on a recent story in Computerworld on that bill. I don't know who wrote the account below, it was anonymous, but it struck me as authentic. It offers the other side of this. The headline: I was displaced.

"Three years ago a person from India 'joined our team' of E-mail support people. I was tagged to teach him, as I was one of the more senior and experienced people in our group. The language difficulty was severe, but I followed through.

Surprise, surprise, a few months later I was told that I was being let go, after nearly 31 years with the company, and being replaced by the fellow in India. We provided remote support for several clients, and he was just a little more remote than I was. He also was paid less than a quarter of what I earned.

I am working now, but was unemployed for over 18 months looking for any sort of computer related work. I'm also making a fraction of what I was making before, and have no benefits.

THAT is what offshoring and H-1B is doing to our technical resources."


http://blogs.computerworld.com/h_1b_legislation_alarms_indias_government
Interesting comments follow.

India's government is alarmed? :nopity: Tough shit.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. here, Chick, let's have a duo
:nopity:
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bad Governors in IL, but good Senators. n/t
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Add me to the list of those who share your opinion re offshoring and H-1B.
:thumbsup: :hi:
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for your support, Jody.
Hope you're doing well. :)
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blue97keet Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is "unfairly stacking"?


"This provision unfairly stacks the deck against foreign companies operating in the U.S. because U.S. companies are highly likely to have a high percentage of America employees."

Like the U.S. isn't supposed to have a high percentage of Americans?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Nope. See, we're just figments of Rush Limbaugh's constipated imagination.
Don't ask about Ann Coulter's diarrhea of the mouth...
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is a bunch of shit...
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 07:34 PM by ChromeFoundry
I am so tired of India and these foreigners and foreign companies undercutting US IT worker wages...and delivering crap that is non-functional and over budget.

If India wants to bitch about our policies...fine...from this day forward I will do EVERYTHING in my power to cause the "learning experience", of a H-1B workers and companies that employ H-1B and L-1 visa holders, to fail. Every piece of code that I write shall be obfuscated and when asked to train the individual, I will certainly speak with enough slang so that they cannot follow what I am talking about.

Every company that I visit, I will explain all the problems I have had with the work performed by Satyam, TATA, Wipro, Tech Mahindra, Rolta, Infosys, etc... Climb aboard the leaky raft you helped create... Game on!
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Azlady Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Tooooo bad - Lets get this bill passed! n/t
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. India is protectionist. Who can take them seriously?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. hmmm
"Contrary to some perceptions, H-1 B visas are actually used to provide technically qualified talent that is in short supply, to open new markets, and to accelerate innovation and increase competitiveness for US companies. H1-B visas are not used to displace American workers."


Yet we continue to lose more jobs at home and hire CHEAPER alternatives. It gets exceedingly hard to believe any other perception at this point. Especially when plenty of media articles openly discuss "Company ___ to offshore its _____ operations to _____."

Then we hear how the same company has to enter bankruptcy protection... :crazy:

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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, and it gives no incentive for our youth
to even think of an IT career, which will deplete the American IT brain-trust. Of course, this eventuality will prove the corporate world correct that there is a lack of qualified American IT workers, and they 'must' have these Visas!

:grr:

I truly worry what the future holds for my son.
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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Right after they offshore its operations
to another country they turn around and ask the American taxpayers that they just laid-off for a bailout.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Awww.
:nopity:


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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Back i the mid-90s when NAFTA
started sucking manufacturing jobs offshore, I read an article about it. The writer asked a young IT professional from Boston what he thought about the situation. His response was along the lines of "Screw 'em. If they aren't smart enough to get a good education and adapt to the new realities, that's tough shit." I thought at the time, 'just wait, jerk. Your turn will come.' I still think about that story from time to time, and wonder how he's doing.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Not all IT professionals are so ignorant....
I'm in IT (while the rest of my family are blue collar workers that too, have been hurt by NAFTA) We've always all stood up for one another. I've never considered myself above any of them. Being in Ohio, I've seen what outsourcing/offshoring/bad free trade/NAFTA agreements have done to ALL workers. We all have to stick together as the future doesn't look very pretty for any of us.

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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I'm a software developer
and I know for a fact that the profession is not free of assholes and jerks. The young IT professional you cite above is just one of them.

I think most of us were not that clueless.

Trav
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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have to dig out my world's smallest violin
Oh here it is :nopity:
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. I can vouch for this, since it happened to me in 2002
"Three years ago a person from India 'joined our team' of E-mail support people. I was tagged to teach him, as I was one of the more senior and experienced people in our group. The language difficulty was severe, but I followed through."

This is absolutely a rubber stamp of what happened to thousands of people that had viable careers in the Software indusrty.

Watching a career of 25 years disappear overnight was eye opening. As you burn through a years worths of savings, and discovering that the field had basically disappeared overnight, along with wages collapsing nearly 50% when you could find work, you tend to rethink what we are told to do and really start examining who really benefits from no labor unity, globalization, and tax policies that reward the richest.

It is when you see that Government is totally controlled by interests of the big corporations, and that the individual is ignored, and left to feed upon the service economy, then you realize it's better to work for yourslef, and maintian the skills necessary for self sufficiency, and a healthy happy and rewarding life.

It was this change that enabled me to escape the rat race, and pursue the things that made sense. It's amazing how much freedom this gives, and being without debt is totaly vital to ones health.

Of course, paying taxes that go to making war, financing corporate handouts, and implementing methods to restrict freedoms in order to increase control, give no incentive to give ones labor away for the benefit of those agendas.

Organized labor and strikes have the capability of shutting down the government and forcing the elected officials to act. Until people realize this power, the ruling class will always be able to exploit labor and the people however they choose.

Just imagine if every single person decided to stay home and have a picnic. No mail, no Cameramen for Faux noise, no news, no airplanes, no taxis, no mass transit, no shopping, no mail, no reporters.

Just a happy day with the family. The Goverment would cease to function. They would freak out.



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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-29-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. Exactly Correct OhioChick! Tough SHIT!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. Yep, tough shit to the Indian Government
I was laid off in November last year after being with the company for almost 13 years. My duties were taken over by an H1-B visa contractor from India. I don't hold a grudge against the contractor. He's a low man on the totem poll, like me. But I do oppose the corporate greed that sells out American IT workers for cheap foreign labor. I've been in IT for 25 years and am over 45 years old. I still haven't found a job and I think age discrimination is part of the problem.

I'm also taking courses to learn web programming languages and web design. I'm a mainframe programmer who didn't have time to take courses on web development while I worked. I've noticed that most mainframe programming jobs want us to know some web languages and also there are more jobs for web developers than mainframe programmers.
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