White House Promises India: No New H-1B Restrictions

[blue97keet]

http://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-promises-india-no-new-h-1b-restrictions-unless-unemployment-gets-worse-2009-3

Silicon Alley Insider

White House Promises India: No New H-1B Restrictions -- Unless Unemployment
Gets Worse

Eric Krangel|Mar. 20, 2009, 11:09 AM

larrysummers-surprised_tbi.jpg If you think the H-1B issue has been
controversial in America, in India they're apoplectic.

So when a delegation of Indian CEOs visited the White House yesterday
to discuss economic and trade issues, they brought up the H-1B
controversy.

Obama Administration officials -- including Lawrence Summers -- assured
the Indian business leaders no new wave of protectionist policies was
in the works. That is, unless unemployment gets worse.

That's what the Indians say they were told, anyway.

Press Trust of India: India's corporate leadership raised the issue of
H-1B visa restrictions during their first high level interaction with
Obama Administration officials and was assured that there would not be
a serious setback to the programme unless unemployment rate in US
plummets drastically.

The issue was raised by the visiting CII's CEO Mission led by Bharati
enterprise chairman Sunil Bharati Mittal, who among others met Lawrence
Summers, Director of the National Economic Council, at the White House
yesterday.

During the meeting, the delegation comprising of top Indian CEOs
brought to the notice the concerns about the recent developments in the
US with regard to H-1B work visa programme and certain provisions in
the stimulus bill.

"I do not see that there would be serious setback to H-1B visa
programme or export programme, unless the unemployment rate goes down
further in a severe manner," Mittal, chairman and group CEO of Bharati
Enterprise, told PTI in an interview after the meeting.

"They were positive," Bharati said referring to the response from the
Obama Administration officials with regard to these issues raised by
the CII delegation. "They believed that US will still remain open," he
said.

During the meeting the officials shared the pressure the administration
is facing from the US Congress on the issue of unemployment in the
country.

[Donnachaidh]

1. this is TOTAL bullshit

Indian companies are now dictating US policy?

[Justyce]

2. We are hemorrhaging jobs to India. Our entire department

was laid off & the work sent to India. Getting our own citizens working again needs to be our first priority, not catering to the 'delegation of Indian CEOs'. This is just unbelievable... :grr:

[Deja Q]

43. And Mexico and lots of other countries.

If corporations want a true global order, well they will have to nix the higher cost of living in America. India and other countries are said to be prospering. That's great, but at the same time, the $10/hr that's great for them we can't begin to live on proper here. There is a cost of living imbalance.

It. is. that. simple.

[ixion]

3. so: pissing off India is bad, but pissing off the US taxpayer is okay?

:wtf:

[acmavm]

13. You haven't noticed that he doesn't give a rat's ass about the

taxpayers?

If he did, Wall Street wouldn't be handling the 'bailout'.

What's his current record on reneging on campaign promises?

[ixion]

15. yeah, I've noticed

Even after all these years, I still get outraged. :argh:

[ardvark]

26. no, pissing off Indian CEOS is bad, pissing off American serfs is ok

in a global fuedal world

[ardvark]

34. everybody's gone serf'in

serf'in USA

whole new meaning to the 'American Dream'

[babylonsister]

4. Funny, I googled and got no other verification of this. If you find

a source and another link, please post it. Otherwise, it could be wishful thinking.

[OhioChick]

7. I posted this......it's similar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=434439

[babylonsister]

9. So why isn't anyone in the US reporting this?

That's what I meant by wishful thinking.

[OhioChick]

10. Shhhh......No one is supposed to know.

:banghead:

[babylonsister]

11. And maybe it didn't happen the way it's being reported.

Maybe it's all made up. Who the hell knows with so much info lacking?

I've seen too many planted stories. I remain skeptical until convinced by a few more sources.

[OhioChick]

12. True.

The US doesn't want their citizens to be up in arms, as well as India doesn't want to see that with their citizens, either.

Don't know who to believe....although I haven't seen Indian news sources stretch the truth in the years that I've been reading them, unlike US media. Guess time will tell. :shrug:

[Deja Q]

46. Exactly. Obama did reverse a lot of * policies that were anti-US worker.

Either way, time will tell.

We are upset, but that doesn't mean there's not a way to have proper globalization, proper expansion, and jobs for people in both countries - and others.

But if the trend continues, the US will shatter and the rest of the global economy will go right along with it. It's a symbiosis.

[MindPilot]

22. Take a look around your own workplace to confirm the story.

At mine it is head-for-the-unemployment-office obvious that the H1B visa program is alive and well.

[OhioChick]

24. Oh, I've seen it at every company that I've worked at....

Most recently, I was told to start sending resumes out, as my job is on the chopping block next. They told me that a foreign worker is waiting in the wings. :mad:

[Hugin]

57. Fully half of my neighborhood is now unemployed.

Up until last year it was a stable Middle Class area.

Most of them were employed in the Technical Trades.

[OhioChick]

63. That's sad. Yet, companies state they can't find U.S. workers. n/t

[Deja Q]

44. Also a very real possibility.

Time will tell.

Just hope for the best. There are as many good outcomes from change as there are bad ones. It just needs to be done right.

[Hugin]

58. Obama appointing Diana "Offshoring: Is it a Win-Win Game?" Farrell told me all I needed to know. nt

[OhioChick]

5. So, India can dictate US law now?

Guess we should become the United States of India.

[Deja Q]

38. I thought India was the 51st state, but whatever...

India has NO right to dictate to us about law.

Just as we have NO right to dictate to them about theirs.

China wants a one world government. Sounds noble, except the irony of their comment is beyond belief. (think 'recall-mania' and wince.)

Want real globalization? Every other country has the same regulations as we do. Environment, human rights, you name it.

As we all know, it's just about doing things on the cheap. If anybody really good comes in, well that's a great coincidence.

(I'll admit I've had good experiences with India, bad experiences with India, good experiences with America, bad experiences with America. I won't admit how many times under each scenario, however.)

[bemildred]

6. Never mind, it's Ok, this is Editorials. nt

[ChromeFoundry]

8. That's fucked up. n/t

[n2doc]

14. Sounds like INDIA's jobs training program is fully protected

Can't do the same for US workers, though, it would be "too expensive" and US workers are "too lazy and dumb" according to the mustache (Tom Firedman).


:sarcasm:

[ardvark]

35. re: Tom Friedman

nothing like having your ability to 'keep pace' judged by a propagandist hack who 'keeps pace' with the style of 1974

[Deja Q]

39. Yup. Wrong for us to even think the "P-word" but it's A-OK for everyone else.

That's bullshit. Pure, freshly plopped bullshit.

[ihavenobias]

16. Kick n/t

[ima_sinnic]

17. apparently, Americans need to repatriate to India & apply for an H-1B visa to get a job in the US

it appears that it is easier for an Indian citizen to get a job here than an American.

I'm soooo happy that the world is being assured that US citizens' jobs are NOT being protected!!!!11!
American jobs for Indians are MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than for Americans!

[jody]

18. Israel dictates ME policy, India dictates H-1B policy, Obama ignores unemployed voters and tent

cities for the homeless spring up all over the nation.

I've had all the Hope & Change I can stand !

[OhioChick]

19. It's beginning to sound like "more of the same" isn't it? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Just as I thought

Our own Tony Blair

[OhioChick]

21. Another puppet...... n/t

[MindPilot]

23. Yep, i'm beginning to think this whole AIG bonus thing is a smokescreen

Sure the American worker gets repeated ass-fucking, but look how we protected you from a couple of greedy stock brokers!

[Deja Q]

42. Yeah. Without a condom,

by a carrier of a lethal disease.

[Deja Q]

41. He deserves a little more time...

If the same circumstances are continued and uses the same bull * did about bailing out the banks and ignoring the actual problems...

Unless we're all being played for as fools, President Obama still comes across as sincere. Bush was just a twit that you knew was lying at every turn.

[ardvark]

25. Citizens are free to make the same offers that India does

why should citizens get a discount?

any citizen or group of citizens who wants to, is free to approach K street and match or exceed the offers that Indian CEOs make

[Deja Q]

40. Or American CEOs.

A lot of us would like to run companies into the ground for a hell of a lot less than what they are getting paid to do it for. I mean, it's clearly very lucrative.

And with smaller severance checks too. ;)


Oh, for the days when CEOs said they deserved their salaries because their decisions affect their companies...

[jsdc007]

27. H1-B Realities

The reality is that in spite of high unemployment, the IT, Biotech, Biomedical research, nursing, engineering R&D sectors are still having trouble finding qualified American nationals to fill positions. Our own people shun engineering, the sciences, and even occupations such as nursing, resulting in continuing shortages in manpower. And, yes, while there are Americans being laid off by high tech companies who are either downsizing or are facing financial losses, there may be other factors that pose as hurdles to these people taking jobs that need filling - qualifications, willingness to relocate due to family and housing issues, benefits, etc. An Indian H-1B worker couldn't care less if he/she is sent to work in some remote office park in Tennessee or Alaska. Americans with families, homes, and ties to certain regions don't have this choice. This doesn't mean that there aren't unscrupulous American companies who are just firing expensive American workers for cheaper H-1B workers (although if discovered, such companies can pay huge fines), but they are still in the minority. Remember also that most job losses have been in the manufacturing and retail industries, and its unlikely that many of these displaced and newly unemployed workers can be trained fast enough - or at all - to fill certain high tech jobs. Its an unfortunate reality, that no amount of railing against Obama, India, Republicans or Democrats is going to solve.

[ardvark]

29. "still having trouble finding qualified American nationals to fill positions"

it is ice cold, to tell a person who just had to train their foreign replacement, that there is 'a shortage of qualified Americans'

this program is one that stabs Americans in the back, then twists the knife

and I know someone who interviews people for complex research jobs, and they say the market is GLUTTED with Americans who have spectacular qualifications

[Deja Q]

47. More like liquid nitrogen cold.

That's insipid. Utterly insipid.

[ShortnFiery]

31. Yeah, they are oh so rare.

No sale.

[OhioChick]

32. Gates, is that you?

Tech Layoffs Surge to 300,000
February 17, 2009; 3:56 AM


Layoffs in the tech sector are accelerating. It took exactly three weeks for tech layoffs to surge to 300,000, according to our Layoff Tracker. Since late January, when the tracker hit 200,000 layoffs, another 100,000 job eliminations have been announced or completed. In contrast, it took five weeks for layoffs in the tech industry to hit the 200,000 mark, and four months for layoffs to hit 100,000 last December. The total number of layoffs since we began tracking since the financial crisis began in late August is 300,093.

The past few weeks have particularly brutal for the technology space, with substantial layoffs announced by Pioneer (10,000), Cisco (3,000), Panasonic (15,000), NEC (20,000), Electronic Arts (1100) and AOL (700). Even Bloomberg and The Wall Street Journal, who both managed to avoid layoffs in the past few months, were forced to make cuts to their workforces. And Google, who was immune to layoffs until late January, continued giving pink-slips in the past three weeks with the company's exit from radio. Sadly, a few start-ups weren't able to weather the storm, with eBaum's World cutting all of its workforce.

Obviously the tech industry is not immune to the current economic climate, and if the past three weeks are any indication, things could still get worse for the tech space before they get better. Maybe that economic stimulus plan will help turn the tide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/17/AR2009021700921.html

[ChromeFoundry]

33. "Tell it to the judge"

:rofl:

[Deja Q]

36. Chicken and the egg

Trouble is, I think the egg started it.

The cheapest egg.

If we were a one currency, one market, one country world, and there was no discrepancy in prices, and $10/hr got as far in ____ as it does in America, I suspect everybody would chase after what-aren't-high-paying-professions-anymore.

Right now, it's a spaghetti gaggle of misnomers and non sequiturs, pawned with B S and some people magically buy into it.

I don't know much on India's culture (except it's a caste system where selective abortions are reported to happen), but America usually tries to pride itself with "families" - forgive the generalization. If both parents need to work, one losing a job and having to relocate is a real pain in the arse. Stability and community are things we find important.

If I was going into another country to study and learn via similar program, I wouldn't have a family. Of course, I'd be called selfish and heartless and all sorts of things for putting work and self-success over family, but whatever. Damned either way, so fuck it.

The scenario for both H1B imports and domestic workers is far more complex than what I've adumbrated. In short, it's a HUGE mess and your answers seem somewhat convenient at times.

It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but the pattern, up to the present day, has by and large been about lowest cost - with no thought as to repercussions or consequences or anything else. Instant gratification. And that affects far more than the American worker, which companies ironically love to use as an excuse for everything too. The human factor isn't seen; we - you and I - are nothing more than walking costs. Until we go to the store, in which case we're walking wallets. And scapegoats for EVERYTHING.

On the plus side, "once a cheater, always a cheater", developing countries might want to prepare for any contingencies, should other countries become cheaper than their own. You'll be in the same boat with the rest of us. And, on a general scale, is no way for ANY society to be ran. Global or otherwise. And plenty of H1Bs, who are smart and deserving, will be shafted too.

[Kalyan]

48. unwarranted

your rant against Indian family & culture was a cheat-shot & completely unwarranted.

I don't know how much you know about Indian caste system but it wasn't any worse than the racial segregation in the United states.

[OhioChick]

49. "Unwarranted?" Deja Q was dead on. n/t

[Kalyan]

53. seriously?

the mainstay of Indian culture is it's "family values". Come down here & i would be more than happy to explain it to you or show it in action.

BTW, India has one of the lowest divorce rates in the world. That does amount to something when it comes to "family values"

[amandabeech]

55. Low divorce rates can easily mean that women are powerless and

cannot exist without a man.

Touting "family values" in the way you are won't go over on this board, and I'm surprised that you even posted it here.

[Kalyan]

56. see the big pic...

i mentioned that low divorce rate is one of the factors and not the overbearing factor for "family values". i may not have expressed it correctly but family values has been one of the major strengths of Indian culture.

[OhioChick]

61. You sound like a Republican with "Family Values"

I wouldn't brag about having the lowest divorce rates in the world. The Indian lady that I work with stated that women in India have to bow down to their husbands and are considered beneath them. They sound to be third world for women's issues. Since you brought up relationships, how are they with gay marriage?

Quote: "Come down here"

Come down where?

[Kalyan]

67. got me ...

on the gay marriage issue. India is one of the most backward countries when it comes to gay rights. Forget gay marriages, homosexuality is a crime in India.

And on the women/men thing, either the good lady forgot to explain you or you didn't get the full picture. It is part of the the Hindu culture. Why, in fact, did the lady explain that the men/women have to bow down to their parents as well. What travesty ;)

the big picture - yes, India has quite a few social challenges but thankfully "family values" isn't one of them!

[OhioChick]

70. Whatever.....

:rolleyes:

Once again:

Quote by You: "Come down here"

Come down where?

[ChromeFoundry]

50. Really?

Hummm, this country has for the most part, overcome much of the racial segregation of the past... and even voted one of the segregated into the most powerful position in the country. What progress has India made? Not a cheap-shot.

[Kalyan]

52. India 101

Has India not overcome it's segregation past? We had a Dalit President a decade back. Our current Supreme Court CJ is a Dalit. Mayawati, the CM of India's most populous state is a Dalit. In all govt institutes & govt offices - 22.5% of all jobs at all levels is mandated for SCs (15%) and STs (7.5%) - the Dalit population. While i might not agree with it, India's affirmative action is one of the most progressive.

Does atrocities against Dalits continue? yes, they do. But it's no different than the racial incidents that flare up in the US from time to time (ryan moats, anyone?). These need to be recognized as actions from zealots & not systemic in nature

[Deja Q]

59. What if I got tired of reading posts by Indians that make cheap shots against Americans?

I'd even posted a link a few days ago.

But the larger point is this: Racism is wrong, period. If others can make emotionally charged remarks, at some point I want others to feel the same way I and others been made to feel as well.

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10878-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=305498&messageID=3045331

That's the article I referred to. There are plenty more all over the place. Made against one group of people by another. I, and you can find all my previous posts, where I have defended globalization when done right (without fraud), about the US economy, how it is critical to the Global economy, and everything else. In short, I'm getting fatigued to the point I'm losing my temper - racism is not a one-sided issue and I've seen more of it lobbed against Americans than the other way around (and I'm not saying I haven't seen any racist posts against Indians, or other people of other nations.) But I digress.

BTW: What the hell is a "cheat-shot"? I think you mean "cheap shot". And, trust me, if you want cheap shots, I could really give you a few doozies... but I think you'd be more inclined to enjoy it. And it'd be against the rules anyway.

[Kalyan]

68. i didn't start it ...

funny huh! i wasn't the one who brought "family values" and dissed Indian values into a H1-B discussion.

[Kalyan]

69. one more point

i went to the weblink provided. the author has no maturity & deserves all the criticism that came his way.

[Skittles]

65. you have no fucking CLUE what you are talking about

you're completely full of SHIT

[ardvark]

28. What good does it do, to be 'the most powerfull country in the world'

If every other country in the world, has more influence in your policy, than the citizen does

[OhioChick]

30. Good point.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Deja Q]

37. Excellent point. We're a figurehead. But then, which country isn't?

If it's just the sticker price for workers, which is what globalization seems to be about, then in the end all these other countries getting all butch and arrogant will be in for one hell of a shock at some point too.

[ardvark]

45. Citizen tech workers are the single most discriminated against political class in the USA

NO other group in the USA receives such constant unprovoked draconian treatment

[Larkspur]

51. I wonder how much money Summers made in speaking fees with Indian companies?

Or maybe he's hold out for future speaking engagements with Indian companies.

F*ck Summers. He needs to be fired.

[blue97keet]

60. I thought Summers should be fired as soon as I learned he was

a cronie of Robert Rubin (NAFTA, Graham-Smith-Blyley act etc.)

[SurfingScientist]

54. I am an H1B researcher...

... in Astrophysics. I am German. I have done more than my income's worth of work for your Universities, and did a lot of pro bono science education for American kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. I am not here for the money, and make exactly what my American colleagues make. I am here because I like the US, the people I work with, the friends I made here, the less hierarchical and informal workplace.

I have been hanging on DU for quite a bit and really enjoy the place. DU is sane, smart, progressive, and a lot of fun to read.

Folks, the one thing that disappoints me is the hostility towards H1B visa, which means guest worker programs. I know you are angry about the companies and not so much the actual visa holders. Still, the threads are pretty agitated as soon as visa are mentioned. By style, the language sometimes uncomfortably resembles the Ultra-Right Wingers who use foreigners as a convenient scapegoat to blame unemployment on.

- I know that some companies use H1Bs to undercut the wages and conditions that they have to offer US workers, this is illegal, but this a problem of enforcing existing laws, not of the H1B concept itself.

- H1Bs are very different from outsourcing; if used correctly (and not abused), their idea _really is_ to help the US stay on top: if tech companies need 50000 engineers and scientists now to design and roll out new products, it is better to not have to wait until the next generation of US citizens has reacted to an increased demand in tech jobs: companies in other parts of the world will have taken the opportunity, and all the production and service jobs that the new products and discoveries would have generated in the US will be created elsewhere.

This is especially true for specialists that may be in short supply. Let's face it, many western-world students do not want to go into science/tech jobs but want to be economists/lawyers/etc. We had (still have?) this problem over in Germany, which led to a major shortage of IT experts during the dot com boom, a grounded (almost non-existent - the buck was made everywhere else!) computer industry, and an embarrassingly bad attempt at an expert visa program by our government.

With an attractive guest worker and academic exchange program, you attract the best minds in the world. You get know-how, innovation, entrepreneurship that are the drivers of your technology-based economy. Exactly what you need to be not just average, but on top.

I know how you feel about jobs these days - I fear for my future the same way (contract ends next year, jobs being cut left and right). Still, categorically rejecting all guest worker/exchange programs, as I sometimes read around here, is the wrong thing to do. Even in a bad economy.

[ardvark]

62. What most people (non tech) don't get about the H-1b issue

is that it is a labor issue - period

that and nothing else

and it has to be one of the most vicious anti-labor programs, ever

people talk about occupations safe from this - there arent any

there's only one difference between those targeted and whose who arent - politics and money

perople say that American tech workers dont give enough - actually, the opposite is true - ironically, becasue tech workers gave so much for their pay, those who bought tech labor in the past are so rich that they can buy enough influnece to be absolute rulers - their influence in politics and the media over tech workers is absolute

[Skittles]

64. Obama is pissing on American jobs just like bush did

[OhioChick]

66. No doubt.

His actions (or lack of) show that and I'm very letdown.