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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:05 AM
Original message
2010 US Dissolution Predicts Russian Professor And Former KGB Analyst


As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010

By ANDREW OSBORN

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

Snip ....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. kewl with me...
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:12 AM by QuestionAll
the central north-american republic sounds like the winning place to be...

:woohoo:

universal health-care, here i come.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Tenn. won't go with the south?
:shrug:
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. yeah, can you see TN or KY or SC joining the EU?
I can't.
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summer borealis Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Right. His borders are all wrong.
UT in the CA Republic???? ROFL!
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. i can't see the eu being too interested in tn, ky or wv.
and the feelings would probably be quite mutual.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. wishful thinking, that....
The nice clean map appears to have forgotten that there are millions of people who will not cotton well to becoming a part of Mexico or Canada or China, etc. So this is more like a fanciful daydream by someone who doesn't really understand the cultural and logistical issues of the plan he presents.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Still Interesting To See How Others View the Situation
The underlying premise of a hollow nation is what is really on the table for discussion.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. fair enough
and I do agree that it's possible we'll see some sort of split, although I think it would be self-standing republics, not principalities of other countries.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Hollow Leadership, Not a Hollow Nation
And the People are getting more and more ticked off about it.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. What's this gentleman been smoking? The US may fall on hard times, but split up & lose our identity?
I seriously think not.

But about Alaska... The Russian "narrative" clashes rather badly with the Palin fantasy of secession and independence, doesn't it?

Hekate


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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. He Is Really Predicting Civil War First - Then Dissolution - Civil War Is Still A Possibility
eom
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. How so? And do you really think so? Although I take you point that from a Russian perspective...
... a "hollowed out" nation is certainly a possibility, given how Bush the Lesser has wrecked the economy and the Civil Service, let the infrastructure decay, and overstrained the armed services.

Hekate


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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. If The Economy Truly Does Become Depressionesque, All Bets On US Longevity May Be Off
eom
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's why my sis bought a small farm this year---she's serious
Too bad she lives on the other coast.

Hekate


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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. As much as our enemies would love this
It's not going to happen ... ever.

It reveals his lack of knowledge of what it is to be American from the inside. This is our only culture. These are our people. If outside "influences" started cropping up, we'd gang up faster than a pack of redneck boys at a bar fight.

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. with the ideological fissure that exists in the US right now
I think civil war is a distinct possibility, although our economy would have to be in far worse shape for something like that to occur. At some point there must be some type of resolution of the two diametrically opposed lines of thought that are currently shredding our social fabric.

You've got those who believe in US empire and those in the reality-based community. These two perceptions of reality exist as polar opposites, and the tension between the two continues to escalate.

I would prefer to see a de-escalation and healing, but that's not really the human way, if history serves as a guide. :(
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. In what way do you think the KGB/the Russians will try to nudge us in that direction?
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:55 AM by Hekate
They're not the only ones, of course--our chaos is something "the terra-ists" also desire. Helter-Skelter, as it were--push this lever and that lever, so Manson thought. I'd always thought of us as too stable to split up, but having reflected on how Lebanon came to pieces at one point I realized that low-budget random terrorism might actually be able to do that here if there were enough effort put into it. However, on the whole the Bin Laden types seem to still want to draw our army out of our own country, iirc.

This is very interesting, but it's almost 5 a.m where I am, and I really need to go to bed. I'll have to check back later.

Hekate


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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. interesting question...
Right now, my perception of Russia is that it's playing a sort of "good cop/bad cop" with the world in that it appears to be working diligently to forge ties with the EU (and thus provide a potential wedge between EU and the US). Showing force in Georgia is an example of the 'bad cop' side. Resuming flights in the North is a more passive example, as are the anti-aircraft weapon sales to Syria and Iran.

Flush with oil and a manufacturing base, and having already gone through the type of correction we're now starting, they're in a position of power. I don't think they have to do much of anything directly, although by the same token, I would be surprised if there wasn't some type of covert/psyops goings on. But then, I think that is also not exclusive to Russia. China, Israel and probably a few others are involved in that game as well.

Mostly, though, I think we're bringing it on ourselves, with our own brands of extremism. As far as I'm concerned, extremism is the heart of the problem. Many in the US seem to believe that only Muslims are capable of being extremists, but the Truth is that there are extremists of many stripes all over the world, and the US is no exception. The neo-cons are political extremists, who made a deal with the dominionists -- Christian extremists. That's our problem here and now. There are several groups of extremists, still totally viable and in fact very much in control, who seek to implement a corporate theocracy. The neo-cons see this as a means to an end, the dominionists see it as the Will of God. Both sides are bat sh*t crazy, and have no problems whatsoever with launching a civil war under one pretext or another.

That is what we truly need to be concerned about, IMO.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. He wouldn't be the first to predict this scenario, or something similar,
like a return to colonies or some such thing.

Texas/N.M. don't consider themselves part of the 'deep south'. They are different animals in every way. I think Tx, N.M., Ariz. and possibly Oklahoma and Colorado, should form a colony.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Gee, just like the Soviet Union fell apart
Yeah, right............

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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Well let's see....economic distress (check), going into Afghanistan (check)
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:37 AM by Dover
Government coup and corruption (check), overspending precious resources to feed the military machine and spreading them too thin (check) infrastructure falling apart (check) not to mention a new problem with obtaining and paying for oil/gas from abroad...to name a few.

So, never say never. No one expected the USSR to collapse either.

I remember thinking to myself after the wall came down in Berlin and Gorbachev visited the U.S., that we would experience much the same thing as the USSR but in slow motion.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. well it was handed over to a few oligarchs,kind of like right here right now
Edited on Wed Dec-31-08 05:53 AM by natrat
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
18. If this were to happen,
I move back to Illinois and join Canada! Actually, I think this guy has it wrong--if something happens to split up the US, it will be many little pockets of "countries"--my county would be more likely to once again become part of the Cherokee or Choctaw Nation, which would also be fine with me.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. He clearly needs some help on the cultural fault lines of the US, here are the 9 nations of NA
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 08:30 AM by HereSince1628
This is all a lot of fun but he seriously doesn't "get" the US. Missouri under the influence of Canada? Idaho alligned not with its Deseret partners but with Washington? I'm sure this is fun to think about for the Rus who lived the break up of an empire. But his map looks an awfully lot more like the way Russia divides the geographic responsibility of its US consulates than it does any map of American cultural fault lines.

I offer him this to study...and when he knows us better he can give it another shot.





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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I doubt NC will join Dixie a second time
This never was a truly red state, don't care what repub hype has been offered. It baaaaarely gave nods to repug presidential candidates since giving the nod to Carter, but has nearly always (if not always) had a Dem legislature and Dem governor. We have pockets of red nutcases, but they're not the numerous and rabid TN or SC kind.

If anything, NC may be an island of Foundry, depending on how VA would go. NC is and has been a lot, lot bluer than we've been given credit for.
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Not bad, but Ectopia will need water pipelines from Alaska
Plus I think Ectopia should include Baja.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. No way-- maybe a little dot for Cabo, but that's essentially a Little America.
The rest of Baja-- inland Baja, I mean-- is as Mexican as Guadalajara.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Nice Human Geography there.
Do you have a source for this?
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Google 9 nations of North America...this is pretty old stuff
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
23. Not a new idea, but his details don't wash.
It is true that declining empires tend to get messy politically. Spain for example, and Russia, and the British (though they still have Scotland).

"After the Empire" -- Emmanuel Todd 2002 : http://www.amazon.com/After-Empire-Breakdown-Perspectives-Criticism/dp/023113102X

And there are quite a few others of one sort and another.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. I can live with Canada....
Canucks, will you welcome a Coloradoan who shares your love of the Rocky Mountain Range (and "socialized medicine?")!
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yay team Canada!
When do we get our jerseys?
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. I could live with that. I'm almost in Canada now. n/t
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. His chief problem is trying to use State borders
Many of the states he says would go one way or another, would actually split, for Example Pennsylvania, East of Blue Mountain will go with the west of the Atlantic States, but West of Blue Mountain (The Appalachian Mountains and Western PA) would go with whoever controls the Ohio Valley.

Another problem is he seems NOT to fully understand the US River System, he shows the Upper Mississippi River System and the Missouri River being center to his Central North American Republic, but then splits the Ohio River valley, which is the key to his whole "Central North American Republic". Furthermore he accepts that the South has important differences with the Mid-West, but ignores the fact that rivers UNITE people not divides them. i.e. the Ohio River and Lower Mississippi River Valleys will sooner or later become part of the "Central North American Republic" whether their want to or not. People tend to forget that North America (North of Mexico) has two large, but NOT interconnected water systems, the Great lakes and the Mississippi River and its tributaries. While these two water systems are NOT interconnected, the distance between them is often less then 20 miles over relatively flat terrain, thus even in Indian Times the are from Quebec to New Orleans were viewed as one big interconnected country. The Indians lost it to the French, who then lost it to the Americans do to the American's greater population Growth in the Colonial period. If the populations of the two regions had been more evenly matched, like there are now, New France would not only have survived, it would have prevailed (The the various Indian Confederations of the Mid-West Tribes would also prevailed).

If you takes the above into consideration and change his maps to reflect those realities, the East Coast Republic will NOT end at the western borders of those states, but at the Appalachian mountains. New York, Virginia and North Caroline losing their Western Mountain regions (Shenandoah Mountain will stay with the East, do to the flow of the Shenandoah river into the Potomac, but the little piece of Virgina to the South of West Virgina will be lost to Kentucky or West Virginia (West Virginia will go completely to the Mid-West as will Kentucky, do to the pull of the Ohio even through both States were settled by people from the South as opposed to people from the North).

As to Texas, I see it dividing for other reasons. First East Texas is and always has been part of the Deep South, and like the rest of the Deep South more worried about New Orleans then anything to the West. This will pull East Texas to the Central North American Republic. South Texas greatest concern is the Rio Grand river. I see it breaking with the rest of Texas over control of that River and merging with the northern Mexican States whose main concern is that same river. It is their life blood and control over its entire length from the present State of Colorado to Brownsville will be important to ALL of the people living in those areas.

I see a similar maneuver for the Colorado River which will pill in Southern California, Northern California will match up better with the Northwest and if a breakup occur that is how it will go. Someone will get Utah, more out of default then actually wanting Salt Lake City, given that the Colorado River is the nearest concern, and Southern California going will the Colorado River, I See Salt Lake City doing the Same (Remember Salt Lake City is in the Great basin, all water in the Basin goes to the Great Salt Lake, which has no outlet to the sea, thus a fairly isolated piece of territory within North America).

Notice my division differs more on details then the authors. The Author views the breakup of the United States as following the Soviet and Yugoslavia pattern, pre-existing borders are preserved. I tend to view the split more like the later part of the Yugoslavia breakup, a fight over new borders within the new states. Now the difference will be that even in Bosnia, the tendency was to keep pre-existing borders, even if that meant the movement of people (Remember Ethnic cleaning?). In the US Ethnic Cleaning does NOT solve the problem of which state shall the area be in? At that point economics will be the driving force and that will be driven by how the rivers flow (And the trade routes follow the rivers). Thus my dispute is more over the exact borders then anything else. Rivers are lousy borders, Mountains are the best. This has been ignored since Colonial times since both sides of any river was controlled by the US (The State borders were mere administrative lines, not real borders in the sense people had to show papers if a border was crossed). Even the Great Lakes tend to unite the areas on both sides of the lakes more then divide Canada from the US As does the Rio Grand, but the Rio Grand is generally NOT considered a navigable river, the main view of the Rio Grand is who gets its flow of water?).

Thus, while I have major objections to any breakup of the US, the exact borders will differ from those projected here (and elsewhere). Remember Rivers Unite, Mountains Divide, and given those geographical facts, sooner or later the Mississippi River Valley will become one nation. This will extend to Canada ether incorporating Canada or in an understanding like the one that exist today between the US and Canada (Legally Independent of each other, economically, Culturally and for all other practical purposes one nation). This power house will then have to decide what will be its relationship with the East Coast, Florida (Which may go on its own), The Carolinas (If South Caroline somehow gets North Caroline to merge with it rather then the rest of the East Coast), Atlanta and Georgia (Which will tend to go with Charleston SC then the rest of the South), The Rio Grand and Colorado River Valleys, and the North West (Including British Columbia and the rest of the Columbia and Snake River System). Yes, I see British Columbia leaving Canada at the same time as the break up of the US, any breakup of the US will lead to a Breakup of Canada and probably Mexico. Mexico, being centered on the Mexican Vally will re-emerge as an Independent Country, but it will try to control the Rio Grand and Colorado Republics (And for that reason I see both Republics surviving even as the Rest of the former US and Canada becomes one nation).

AS I was saying, I see the Central North American Republic slowly taking over all of the areas that borders it (except in the South West). Sooner or later including even Alaska and the East Coast. Trade will force this unity, for people will remember the ease it was to trade across state borders today. They is even a chance that the Rio Grand and Colorado River Republics will join, but probably prefer to become border states between the US and Mexico (IF the US or Mexico stays down for a much longer period then the other, these two river republics will join the one that solves its problems first, which may be Mexico, but I see both the US and Mexico solving its problems about the same time so a better then even chance for the two River Republics to stay independent of both.

More an observation on HOW the US will break up then any opinion that it will. A break up will require something bigger then what hit the Soviet Union in the late 1980s, i.e. a drop in oil prices, when oil was its may way to pay for what it imported from the west, and an inability to cut back on those imports (Generally industrial in nature, but including Computers) to match what it could export. This caused a cash problem within the Soviet Union which lead to the need to cut back government expenditures sever ly (i.e. required pulling Soviet Forces not only from Afghanistan but Eastern Europe, converting military industries to making Civilian Goods do to the cut back in buying military equipment etc). People forget the main reason for the Soviet Union's Collapse was it was spending 40% of its GNP on Defense, a rate that is unheard of except for brief periods (i.e. during WWI and WWII) in any other country (Israel is on this same path, but that is a different story). The Soviet Union had to get its military spending down to less then 10% of tis GNP and that took years, given the huge military expenditures prior to the 1990s. The US is spending less then 6% of its GNP on Defense, so a collapse is less likely, but if the downturn do to the collapse of the real Estate Bubble is severe as many says it will become a collapse is NOT impossible (But I tend to disbelieve this will happen).
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. My scenario to divy up America
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 03:21 PM by Aya Reiko


Wild cards:
Deseret's (Utah's) influence over its neighbors -- Could expand their borders well into Cascadia and the Central States.

Missouri -- No idea where it would fit in.

I'm open to ideas on how to mod the map further.
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. Probably would have happened if McCain had stolen the election...
...but not the way he predicts it.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. The US Is NOT The Soviet Union
And we are far more likely to divide on religion or economic or political issues than on geography--as we always have.

But all those pieces work together to make the gestalt that is America. Of all the states, relatively few could provide the agriculture, manufacturing, education and health care to be independent of the rest of the nation. I live in one of them--Michigan--with water, farmland, manufacturing base and infrastructure.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
34. Didn't Chomsky always say the plan for Russia was to return it to
Edited on Mon Dec-29-08 07:58 PM by defendandprotect
third world status?

In fact, America looks like we're being made the GOP's "Third World America" -- !!!

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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. Here's the real map of the new US
Or have y'all forgotten already:

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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
37. Let's see... It's all fine for the northeast but...
I somehow doubt that Texas will want to be controlled by Mexico. I'm just saying. NOT A CHANCE. The midwest, sure why not. Canada's a nice place. The west coast? China? Really? Are they going to make Chinatown the district capital? There's too many people here with disposable income to become any more a slave to China than this nation already is.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
38. European Union for me...that means healthcare! Yippeeee!
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
39. It's curious how all the segments will cleave neatly along existing state lines.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
41. I just don't see California under the Chinese
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. me either.. but
our state is going broke and who knows? Maybe the Chinese will infuse more $$ to keep us going until their takeover. ;)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
44. Seems unlikely. The Russians are reverting back to their old ways. After Bushler, who can blame
them?

Bushler has discredited the entire American System as a cruel and shameless sham.

To the Bushlers, that's what it is. To the rest of us who believe in America as something more than vehicle for fraud, theft and murder, as the Bushie Inner Court believes, we are aghast.

Putin and his Russian Bushies, of course, understood the Bushie Cues and quickly moved to restart their side of the Cold War, after Bushler showed them how much contempt the rulers of America have for their subjects, and that, to the Bushie Rulers, American Freedom is a cynical joke to be exploited like their TV-addled Subjects.

However this is more ridiculous than FOX "News".

Think about it. Russian Bushies are more Bushie than our own Bushies. Thus, their FOX "News" is more laughable and pathetic than ours

Calling Sean Hannity and Michael Savage-Weiner! Your Russian Bushie Allies need your help to become more like you. Their Bushiganda is not even HALF as good as your pack of lies.
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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
45. Bizarre...
and ignorant prediction.
Name me one person who has no family in any other area of the United States. The map cuts the wheat and corn producing states from the states that supply vegetables and fruit.
All the Native American populations ignored and all the parcels of land that belong to the American people and we lose Washington, D.C. so where is the government? Where is the money? Where is anything that makes a nation?
Some other countries maybe but not here unless we all give up on the Constitution at once.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
46. This guy clearly has no knowledge of the US culture and our interrelationships
Nice try, though. I'm sure this is the great wet dream of his old bosses.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I was going to say, anybody who knows anything wouldn't predict Texas and NM going together on...
anything. Haven't they been paying attention? :eyes:
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rightsize2005 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
49. INSANE COLLEGE PROF!!! METH ANYONE?
What goes to the Jamaican's...That's the territory i want to be in...Blunt anyone?
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