Museum opposes Israeli warplanes over Auschwitz

[peterh]

(Related link)
<http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters09-03-092558.asp?reg=EUROPE>


WARSAW (AP)--The Auschwitz museum described as "inappropriate" Wednesday a
planned flight this week by Israeli F-15 fighter planes over the former death
camp, meant as a tribute to the camp's victims.
"It's a cemetery, a place of silence and concentration," museum spokesman
Jaroslaw Mensfelt said by telephone. "Flying the (F-15s) is a demonstration of
military might which is an entirely inappropriate way to commemorate the
victims."
A statement from the Israeli Embassy in Warsaw said that on Thursday, three
Israeli F-15 jets - piloted by descendants of Holocaust survivors - will fly
over the former death camp at noon. The Israeli pilots were in Poland to take
part in an air show last weekend in the central town of Radom.
In Israel, the Foreign Ministry defended the flyover plans.



I think with Israel’s current standing with the world community, a more low keyed approach to honoring the camps victims might be more prudent. Perceptions are not to be ignored.

[Muddleoftheroad]

1. Low key

They clearly didn't want a low key statement. They wanted a statement saying more than just, "Never again." They wanted a statement saying, "Next time we fight."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. based on world events lately that isn't the statement they are making

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Clearly we disagree

Antisemitism is on the rise in Europe and would probably be a lot worse if the Europeans hadn't helped kill most of the Jews who lived there. This is a statement by the Israeli government, the Jewish homeland, that this atrocity will not occur again without a fight.

[madrchsod]

8. oh ..so if the idf

and what ever militarist government is in place get`s pissed off at ,let`s say-france, they`ll attack france? to whom is the idf making it`s threat to? shouldn`t they be making their fly overs across iran? or syria? and hasn`t this place seen enough death? maybe the idf should release doves across this hallowed ground of all the people who died there-not just the jews. but that would have the same chance as a snowball in hell,wouldn`t it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. I'd prefer a flight of doves to a flight of warplanes.

[CWebster]

17. It is unfortunate...that in their defensive zeal

it would seem that they wouldn't hesitate to commit the crime that was visited upon them.

[peterh]

5. Do you think that’s appropriate at this time…

Or are they entitled to whatever statement they wish to express?

[The Stranger]

9. Astonished.

Seeing the picture of MLK next to a post stating "Next time we fight."

Maybe someone needs to do a little reading up on MLK.

[Forkboy]

28. You;re not the first to point out the contradiction

Go visit the Israeli/Palestian Forum for more of his charm :eyes:

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. What kind of ordnance do they plan do drop on Warsaw?

Will they use the same stuff they shoot into Palestinian neighborhoods?

[IndianaGreen]

6. Oh, bullshit!

What a better way to show that the Nazis, and their European collaborators, failed to erase Jews from the face of the Earth! During the Holocaust, Allied bombers routinely flew over Auschwitz on their way to their targets. Why didn't they bomb the gas chambers and crematoria? Why did they bomb the rubble of German cities instead of bringing to an end the ongoing horrors in the camps?

I'll say, go Israel, and fly your F-16s over Auschwitz. Break the sound barrier if you wish! Show the world that the "Never again!" also means that you will kick butt!

[joeybee12]

7. Once again, Israel shows poor judgement

Sorry, but you can't rationalize this stupid display of force.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Where we you when the Pope wanted to build a monastery next door?

Where we you when the Pope wanted to build a monastery next door to Auschwitz? Talking about bad taste!

I see nothing wrong with the flyby, as a matter of fact, I think it is a darned good idea!

[joeybee12]

24. It wasn't a monastery, it was a convent

A group of nuns wanted to build it there--the Pope really wasn't involved.

In any case, that was incredibly stupid on their part and showed a total lack of sensitivity.

That said, why did you bring this up? It seems to me you're implying that my comment about Israel showing poor judgement somehow means I think the nuns didn't.

Canb't see how anyone can see the fly-by is a good idea.

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. Here is what "Never Again" really means

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm

[IndianaGreen]

13. Where is the United States on that list?

Or do America's victims all commit suicide?

So much for fairness and accuracy. BTW, the figures on Cuba are wrong!

[DuctapeFatwa]

14. You mean which ones did the US pay for?

Or which ones did they pay for and send the CIA in to micromanage?

[CWebster]

19. and the oppressed

becomes the oppressor.


In order for there to be a "never again" for us we will impose it upon you. Personally I would rather die than become what I despise.

[Xithras]

26. Because...

During the Holocaust, Allied bombers routinely flew over Auschwitz on their way to their targets. Why didn't they bomb the gas chambers and crematoria?

Because there was no such thing as a "targeted" weapon in WWII. The method typically used to bomb a target involved flying dozens of planes overhead and having each of them drop a full load of bombs. With enough planes dropping enough bombs, it was a given that some of them would hit their target. Typically, they'd also destroy every building within a quarter mile of the target in the process. They'd have leveled the entire camp, killing all of its prisoners, if they had tried to bomb it (and, for the record, the U.S. and Britain DID bomb the rail lines that fed into the camps on several occasions, disrupting the flow of prisoners).

Why did they bomb the rubble of German cities instead of bringing to an end the ongoing horrors in the camps?

Because if we'd destroyed the gas chambers, the Nazi's simply would have used their machine guns to kill the Jews. If they had destroyed the camps, the Nazi's would have killed them in the ghettos. If they had raided the execution centers and freed the Jews, the Nazi's would have simply brought in more.

The Allied commanders understood something that many people forget today...the ONLY way to permanently stop the genocide of the Jews was to defeat Germany and depose the Nazi's. Anything else would have simply shuffled the problem around.

[EFF BrandyWine]

27. It isn't often that I agree with you IG...

but this time you are right on!

[mmm]

11. What a terrible idea

[Wednesdays]

16. I side with the museum on this one...

A 21-gun salute, maybe...but warplanes flying overhead sends the wrong message.

The dove idea would be great.

[IndianaGreen]

18. NATO warplanes fly over the area all the time!

I don't hear anyone complaining about that! But let a group of Holocaust survivors, or their descendants in this case, fly Israel's colors and all of the sudden we become outraged at militarism!

This coming from a country that has sent occupation troops to Iraq!

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Gato, that is way out of line!

A total distortion and a smear. I suggest you read your American and British history if you want to see some real genocide!

[el_gato]

23. who says i haven't

our history is filled with genocide

Having said that I believe the likudniks want a global war.

[Aidoneus]

21. in light of all that's going on,

this seems a bit inconsequential really, maybe those bomber & spy jets they still fly over Lebanon deserve the attention? nah..

[cprise]

25. A less than subtle threat directed at Europe

...from an apartheid country that now militarilty assaults civilian communities and breaches the borders of neighboring states on a monthly basis.

This militarism is the wrong message to send to Europeans, and under the current circumstances it is coming from the wrong source.