Poll Shows Disapproval of Cheney Daughter Reference

[BeyondGeography]

By Richard Morin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 15, 2004; 5:00 PM

An overwhelming majority of voters believe it was wrong for Democratic nominee John F. Kerry to have mentioned in Wednesday's presidential debate that Vice President Cheney's daughter was a lesbian, according to the latest Washington Post tracking survey.

Nearly two in three likely voters -- 64 percent -- said Kerry's comment was "inappropriate," including more than four in 10 of his own supporters and half of all swing voters. A third -- 33 percent -- thought the remark was appropriate.

<snip>
The latest Post tracking poll continues to show the race deadlocked, with each candidate receiving 48 percent of the vote. Independent Ralph Nader continues to barely register nationally and gets 1 percent of the hypothetical vote…But the survey also suggests that Kerry continues to claim a large lead in key battleground states. In these 13 states, Kerry held a 53 percent to 43 percent advantage among likely voters.

<snip>
A total of 1,555 registered voters were interviewed Tuesday through Thursday nights, including 1,203 likely voters. Margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for the overall results and plus or minus six percentage points for results from the battleground states and for the question asking views on Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, which was asked only of those interviewed Thursday night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36114-2004Oct15.html

[goforit]

1. Kerrry mentioned Mary in good heart!!!..........Go Kerry!!!

[detroit]

32. People just don't realize...

...that Mary Cheney is a paid political operative for her father's campaign and an openly gay public figure. If they knew that, I think people would be more forgiving.

Cheney wants to leave the impression that Kerry "outed" his daughter and that Mary Cheney isn't an activist, but rather a private person.

[Tigahs_]

36. sure he did.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. Democrats compliment Cheney's Gay daughter = BAD.

Alan (Uncle Tom) Keyes calls Mary Cheney a "Selfish Hedonist" = GOOD!

The GOP hypocracy is absurd!

:argh:

[candy331]

3. The country "going to hell in a hand basket" as my dear old

departed grandmother would say and the media is doing polls on bullsh--. Enough of this sh-- already.

[Democat]

4. Bush lies about Osama, good. Kerry tells truth about Cheney, bad.

America is screwed by the right wing media.

[mazzarro]

61. Who are these idiots and "morans"?

Did these fools hear what Kerry said about her? Well - I guess not otherwise they would not be acting out their stupidity at all!

[cubsfan forever]

5. Oh please, not another

Push poll of "people from his own party" nonsense. 4 in 10 of his own supporters? "Almost half" of swing voters"? The Washington Post asked "the question" after the debate. So, how many of the purported
1550 voters were asked that question? Not too many is my guess, since the poll was conducted before the debate. Jeesh, they don't even try to hide their spin, do they?

Professor 2

[BeyondGeography]

7. So you think the numbers have improved on this issue

since Thursday?

Or do you believe in the Curse of the Billy Goat, too?

[cubsfan forever]

14. I think the Washington Post

will say or do whatever their repug buddies tell them to do. The Plaid Adder has a great post on this-describing how everyone from the HRC to Andrew Sullivan are upset not at Kerry but at Mrs. Cheney.
The "numbers" cited by WP are just simply crap.
Professor 2

PS~Particularly after the non fan interference call in the 2003 NLCS, I think maybe

[cubsfan forever]

15. that that the Curse of the Billy Goat is

all too real.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Good response

GO CUBS, and welcome to DU.

[cubsfan forever]

20. Thank you

I appreciate your welcome! I had another person also welcome me warmly. A Cubs fan, too! I love DU!! Yes, GO CUBS!

[sangh0]

26. Even REPUBLICANS are complaining about the repuke whiners

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/15/log.cabin/

Activist accuses GOP of 'attacking gays'
Head of gay GOP group Log Republicans lashes out

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The head of the nation's largest gay and lesbian Republican group slammed fellow Republicans Friday for "feigning outrage" over comments by Sen. John Kerry, and called on President Bush to "stop attacking gay families on the campaign trail."

Patrick Guerriero, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans, said Democratic presidential nominee Kerry was "not wise" to refer to the daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney during the answer to a question about homosexuality during a presidential debate Wednesday night. (Special Report: America Votes 2004, the debates)

But he said Republicans "who are expressing outrage at the debate comments really have been outrageous themselves."

[Carolab]

45. Where are the other groups?

in this? What are THEY saying? Like NGLTF or GLAAD or NCLR???

[sonicx]

6. more like...64% think being gay is shameful

[GRLMGC]

8. And that is really sad

I know people still harbor bigotry but when you actually see it in person, its so repulsive.

[Democat]

10. They should ask how many Americans think "lesbian" is an insult

It's very possible that 64% of Americans think that calling someone a "lesbian" is an insult no matter what the context, so they think Kerry was insulting her just by saying the word "lesbian" at all.

Some anti-gay people actually think "lesbian" is a naughty word like "fuck" or "shit".

[queerart]

24. You Could Not Be Any More Correct Sonicx!

[sr_pacifica]

53. right n/t

[CookieD]

9. But look at the rest of the poll ...

Kerry's leading in battleground states.

[prolesunited]

11. So, where's the approval poll

on Bush lying about what he said about bin Laden?

[liberalmuse]

12. The war is going to hell...

and the latest disturbing news is that 16 solid soldiers are being detained because they didn't want to be sitting ducks because Bush's cronies are looting the money meant to buy better armor for our troops. The economy is tanking. The deficit is the largest in history. Oil is over $55.00 a barrel. About 1/5th of Americans don't have health insurance, and the fucking media sticks with this utter fluff. Someone fucking blow my brains out. This country is INSANE. I can't take it anymore!!!

[Jackpine Radical]

13. This is the propaganda machine measuring its own effectiveness.

[KittyWampus]

28. That Is Quite Profoud

I just repeated this to myself several times...

it sounds flippant but it is really true.

[daleo]

35. It is good n/t

n/t

[DianeG5385]

17. Disapprovers probably did not watch debate

Their opinion more likely than not has been formulated by post debate cable obsessive spin on the issue and GOP blast faxes. The characterization of Kerry's remarks in response to a question posed to him by Scheiffer (set up?) were gracious, but I knew in my soul that it was going to be twisted and exploited by the right wing spin machine. Note that if Kerry had not taken Mary's name in vain, the spin WOULD have been on Kerry's "marrying up" comment. I honestly thought that was the one we would hear all this week. Isn't it interesting that these were the LAST two questions??

What I question is the one-sidedness of the cable media in uncritically selecting Kerry comments but ignoring Bush's wholesale prevarication and obvious lack of command. But then again, I know we are fighting an uphill battle against a corporate machine, a Behemoth, a Beast. Our only tool is the vote, and the only way to win is for every single Democrat and Independent to vote for Kerry in such overwhelming numbers that fraud is taken out of the equation. Kerry's win must be a complete repudiation of the Bush regime.

Plus, I'm sick of cable. They dig up these pseudo experts who spew trash and deceive the public. Cable needs to be regulated and held accountable.

[bemildred]

18. Cough, cough, BULLSHIT, cough.

If this is not a rigged poll, I'll eat my hat (figuratively speaking).

[Alenne]

19. I feel like an alien in my own country

The fact that a news organization would poll people to find out if calling Cheney's lesbian daughter a lesbian is good or bad is appalling. Who cares about how much Bush has fucked up the country and how much more damage he will do if elected? That's not important at all. What the media finds really important is whether a lesbian can be called a lesbian when discussing gay issues.

Maybe they should poll people to find out how appropriate it is to use your lesbian daughter when you are trying to seem compassionate and inclusive but then pretend to be outraged when someone else brings it up in a positive way. Maybe the Cheney's should be outraged with themselves. After all, they are the ones willing to sell out their own daughter to get an idiot elected.

[Spiffarino]

40. The "outrage" is nothing but an act

The Cheney's know their "base" is appalled at Mary being a lesbian, so they have to go out and make it sound as if they are being attacked for having a kid who isn't "normal" -- just as if she were a paraplegic or something. That kind of bullshit resonates with the homophobe crowd, since they believe that homosexuality is a disease or worse.

KKKarl Rove is aware of this and is shouting it loudly into the Echo Chamber.

[George_S]

21. Isn't the Washington Post the Moonie rag?

Just wondering.

[countmyvote4real]

23. No, that's the Washington Times. n/t

[George_S]

25. That's right, thanks.

[countmyvote4real]

22. How about a poll about half-assed news and lazy "journalists?"

Unlike Jon Stewart, I'm not sad. I'm sick of the crap for news media.

[George_S]

27. That means Rove won the debate

[Tigahs_]

37. unfortunatly that is true. . .

b/c the one thing everybody will remember about the third debate is Kerry mentioning Cheney's gay daughter.

[FlemingsGhost]

48. Welcome to DU, Tigah.

LSU, huh?

If I'm not mistaken, there's another new poster who's a big "Tigah" fan around here, somewhere.

Seen him around?

[funnymanpants]

50. Exactly

This is really unfucking believable. Kerry wins all three debates, and the news item is how Kerry mentioned a well-known fact. The Republicans created another fake story to their advantage. Just repeat something over and over again with feigned indignation, and that becomes the story.

By the way, I work as a substitute teacher, and this is the same stupid trick students use. Studnet X gets on the teacher's computer to alter the grades. The teacher asks that the sudent get off the compouter. Student refuses. Teacher reaches over to shut off computer and student goes ballistic. "He was in my face, I wasn't doing anything."

Whenever you don't have the truth on your side, just scream and scream like bloody murder. It is like the pickpocket who gets caught with his hand in someone else's pocket and screams "Robber!"

The only differnece is that the school system won't (generally) tolerate the bullshit indignation of the students. It sorts through the details. In contrast, the media promotes it. This is absolutely so irresponsible.

[crossroads]

58. I don't think you listened very well, did you!?

:bounce:

[progressivebydesign]

29. Yeah.. forget the guy behind the mass murder on 9/11...

.. let's feign moral outrage over a fucking statement! God.. people are stupid!

[DemFromMem]

30. And the followup question?

Will this influence your vote?


That would actually show what a non-story this is. But that would make the reporter appear to be covering a non-story and we wouldn't want that, would we?

[tuvor]

31. And how many voters will make up their mind based on this?

Next to none. Time to talk again about Iraq and health care, the number one and number two issues.

[indie_voter]

33. I feel like that old song by Stealers Wheel

"Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!"

Ugh.

Kerry did the right thing.

[RamboLiberal]

34. I was doing phone banking for Kerry tonight

of registered female Dems with spotty voting histories. I did have one call where a little girl answered and put her mom on the phone. The woman told me she was voting for Kerry till that despicable thing he said about Cheney's daughter. I figured her for a koolaid drinker Bush supporter.

Unfortunately today this dominated local talk radio in Pittsburgh, even the lone-liberal's show.

[Amigust]

38. It's all just political hype, attacking Kerry anywhere and everywhere

they think they can get any traction at all, manufactured or not.

Remember, GOP rules of engagement: smear, sneer, lie -- and make sure you make lots of noise while you're at it, it makes you seem more credible. And oh, that (self)righteous indignation, what a handy propaganda tool.

[Spiffarino]

39. I wasn't happy about it.

And I really love Kerry. He's a great guy, but that little bit came across as opportunistic especially since Edwards had already done it. I wish Kerry left Mary out of it and just said, "Lots of people have gay children..." and continued on with his excellent point.

Mary Cheney has proven herself a supreme hypocrite by supporting those who hate people like her. She does no service to the GLBT community. Kerry didn't "out" her or say anything hateful or slanderous. However, it came across to me - a die-hard Kerry supporter and campaign worker - as opportunistic and unnecessary. I think he took some bad advice.

Now having said all that, the genie is out of the bottle. What to do? Why, just what they are doing! "Hey, we didn't say it was a bad thing to be gay or lesbian! Why, we are very impressed with how much the Cheney's love their daughter and accept her lifestyle."

In other words...MILK IT!

[cliss]

42. Good point. You can tell that this was a very deliberate

thing because Edwards mentioned it when he debated Cheney. He was baiting him. Cheney passed on the worm, and said only, "thank you for caring about my family". Cheney knew that it was a lose-lose situation. So did Edwards.

Kerry did the same thing at the 3rd debate. This was a very deliberate, pre-planned statement. Yes, it's dirty pool but look who they're playing against. The dirtiest of the dirty. And besides, it was stated benevolently.

Of course, all this went over Bush's head. He doesn't understand what's going on with that, but Cheney does. It's a political torpedo aimed directly at Dick Cheney.

Dick knows that he is unable to do anything on this subject. If he speaks out, he draws more attention to the fact that both he, Lynne and Mary are the ultimate hypcrites. Just let the sleeping dog lie.

It's Dick Cheney's Achilles' Heel, so to speak. I for one am glad that he said it.

[Spiffarino]

44. I don't have a problem with a little dirty pool

...when it comes to these people. I just wish he had timed it a little better. It had such a "I'd better hurry and get this in" feel to it.

However, I think you're exactly on point when you say that it's a lose-lose for the Cheneys. All they can do is express fake outrage at this point, but they ultimately risk being seen as the hypocrites they are since Dick brought it up first.

Kerry needs to keep killing them with kindness. Being a kind person, that should be easy for him. I met him at a campaign stop and he really is a warm, likeable guy. This should be a snap.

[sonicx]

49. i'm not sure it was deliberate

at least in not using the word 'lesbian.' if he ran that by advisors, they would have said no.

[sr_pacifica]

54. Gawd, to think "lesbian" still sparks such visceral reaction

And there's a whole 'nuther topic. Why? What does "lesbian" connote? Why the charge? L-E-S-B-I-A-N. Say it loud, say it proud.

Here come the lesbians, the leapin' lesbians. (an old 70's song)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

41. Did Bush say anything, obect to it, at the debate?

Then STFU Cheneys with your fake indignation.

[sr_pacifica]

55. No, he leaves the dirty work to his lackeys n/t

[Zerex71]

43. 64% of the populace apparently doesn't like to hear simple facts.

Which is much lower than the 90% of the population which I consider to be absolutely useless.

Mike

[Carolab]

46. How in hell is is despicable

that Kerry said Mary Cheney was "just being who she is"? It's despicable that her parents made his comment sound like it was despicable. His comment was driving home a point--that gay/lesbian people are children of God and that they are born that way. It's about TIME someone said this on a national political level because it's TRUE.

[Carolab]

47. Here's what NGLTF has to say!

Cheney/Kerry Controversy: There's Nothing Wrong with Being a Lesbian

A Statement by Matt Foreman, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Executive Director:

MEDIA CONTACT:
Task Force Communications Department
Sheri A. Lunn, Director of Communications
[email protected]
323-857-8751


"Enough. For the last two days, the Bush/Cheney campaign has succeeded - yet again - in using a gay matter to distract voters from the real issues facing our nation.

Simply put, there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian, let alone saying that an out lesbian is a lesbian. It wasn't a story in the first place, and continued focus on it is insulting to any thinking person.

Can we talk about something real, not the patently bogus hurt and anger of Dick and Lynne Cheney? After all, for the last 18 months, these folks have supported using gay people and our families as a wedge to divide the electorate. They have not said one word while their allies have aggressively pushed the "Federal Marriage Amendment" on the grounds that allowing couples like their daughter and her partner to marry would undermine Western civilization. Not a peep when it was revealed that the GOP is paying for egregiously anti-gay campaign mailings in at least two states. Not a whisper while their buddies in the religious and political right have engaged in an unprecedented, national campaign of fear-mongering and demonizing of gay people. Now, they're offended? Come on.

Folks, let's move on."

Download the latest Task Force Policy Institute report, "Facts About Mary Cheney's Sexual Orientation in U.S. Political Discourse" by clicking here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/MaryCheneyFacts.pdf

Visit the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Election Center.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/media/release.cfm?releaseID=746

[Chomskyite]

51. They BURIED the real news that Kerry is beating Bush in swing states!

The REAL news here is buried under the bogus chickenshit issue about the Cheneys.

In-CRED-ible.

You can see the Post is NOT on our side here.

[sr_pacifica]

52. How many of those polled actually heard Kerry

I'm wondering. Reading the words out of context, those polled may not be aware of the gentle tone to what he said.

Otherwise, all I can say is most of America is homophobic, still, ESPECIALLY, when it's close to home. I would say most Americans upon learning a family member is gay or lesbian probably feels, initially, dread and shame.

[henslee]

56. Yawn.

[Carolab]

57. This is ridiculous

The Bush-Cheney campaign is only pissed because the Kerry-Edwards campaign co-opted their flagrant USE of Mary as a tool to get votes.

http://www.hatecrime.org/mary/whydearmary.html

Why are you asking people to write to Mary Cheney?

President Bush and far-right extremists want to add anti-gay language to the US Constitution. As the openly lesbian daughter of Vice President Cheney, Mary Cheney is uniquely situated to help her community in this dire hour. She already has a history of publicly working on gay rights issues, from her time as a paid gay liaison for Coors and serving on the board of the Republican Unity Coalition (a gay Republican group devoted to stamping out anti-gay prejudice in the Republican Party). Now that Mary's father has said he would support adding anti-gay prejudice to the US Constitution, we believe Mary has a unique opportunity here to do the right thing and make a difference.

Isn't it unfair to pick on family members of politicians?

Mary Cheney would be relevant to this debate even were she not related to the vice president. She is a public figure who has chosen to put herself in the public eye as a professional gay rights activist, first at Coors and then at the Republican Unity Coalition. She has also put herself in the public eye by accepting a $100,000 a year salary to run the vice president's re-election campaign. (Note: the salary in the Washington Post story is "after" tax.) Former presidential candidate Howard Dean's campaign chief, Joe Trippi, was often the subject of press inquiries and stories. The vice president's campaign chief is hardly exempt from equal scrutiny simply because she happens to be a relative.

But aren't the family members of the president and vice president traditionally silent?

On the contrary, this is an administration that is happy to use private family members as public figures when it will win them votes. There was no reluctance to having First Lady Laura Bush tell the media recently that gay marriage was "very very shocking." And the other Cheney daughter, Liz, recently spoke out about the importance of the upcoming presidential election. The Bush Administration also has had no problem using Mary Cheney as the gay poster child for compassionate conservatism, first during the 2000 election and later as a board member of a top gay Republican advocacy group, in order to win gay and lesbian money and votes. Now that Mary's promise of compassionate conservatism is being called into question, the administration can't claim she's a private figure whose opinion is not relevant.

Are you saying it's wrong for Mary to stand by her father?

It is troubling that an openly lesbian advocate of gay civil rights would run the campaign of a man who would endorse making gays and lesbians second-class citizens in the US Constitution. Many members of the LGBT community have parents who "aren't quite there yet" on a host of our issues. In spite of that, those of us with any self-respect do not actively help put our parents in a position to champion legislation further oppressing ourselves and our brethren.

And more importantly, no self-respecting member of any minority community would remain in the service of an administration whose number one election priority is codifying prejudice against that minority in the US Constitution.

[jacksonian]

59. hmm, let's look at this poll

40% of Kerry supporters, 50% of swing voters. 64% overall.

If we assume 35% Dem, 35% Rep, 30% other (I know that's not right, but just hang with me on this) - then 40% of 35% plus 50% of 30% would mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE REMAINING 35% woould have to think it's an outrage to make the numbers add up.

I'm not buying that all Republicans, without exception, are outraged but only 44% of everyone else is. This really sounds fishy, like a push poll response to me, and consequently I'll bet this "outrage" does not run very deep. Now either my assumptions are really far off (possible) or somebody's trying to get the outcome they want (also very possible).

[cubsfan forever]

60. Yes, it is a push poll

as you so correctly observed. When the Chair of the log Cabin Republicans is "outraged by the Cheneys' outrage," you know this poll is crap.
Professor 2