City Hall tags Dean for using graffiti

[stickdog]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/112999p-102044c.html

City Hall tags
Dean for using graffiti


By MICHAEL SAUL
and CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


Presidential candidate Howard Dean speaks at rally Tuesday night at Bryant Park in front of wall he arranged to have decorated by New York graffiti painter.

City Hall sandblasted Howard Dean yesterday for making his presidential pitch in front a graffiti-covered backdrop at his Bryant Park rally.

A Mayor Bloomberg spokesman said it was outrageous for Dean to glorify graffiti after the city spent millions cleaning up the spray-painted scrawls of vandals who fancy themselves urban Vincent Van Goghs.

"It's unfortunate that Mr. Dean would promote and romanticize a form of vandalism, especially considering this city's success in eliminating this urban blight," said Ed Skyler, the mayor's press secretary.

Dean's campaign staff had a New York graffiti artist known as KEO paint the backdrop live in front of thousands who waited Tuesday night for the candidate to arrive.

[Kolesar]

1. ahhh, publicity!

Great idea, Bloomburg. In a few years, President Dean is going to be campaigning for your replacement in New York City.

[mefoolonhill]

11. grafitti

Note that City Hall doesn't challenge Dean on the substance of his remarks, but rather brings up the grafitti issue. No doubt this occurred after a phone call from Karl Rove to Bloomberg.

[jamesinca]

2. Depends on what the person put on the backdrop

A lot of stage backdrops are done as such, especially for a live theatre performance. Just because the city cleaned it up, does not mean it does not exist. If it said something like "cop killer" on the backdrop or something offensive, I can see being upset. If it said things like "vote Howard Dean for president" then they are pissed at the font style used, and that is silly.

[trogdor]

3. Really.

Let's only use U.S. Department of Decorum approved backdrops for campaign events. Dull, boring, and inoffensive. Yawn. ZZZzzzzzzzzz.

[mjb4]

6. you can't breathe but we are going after graffiti

used by a presidential candidate...

[CWebster]

8. including a modest drape to cover the obscene nakedness

of a statue's modeled breast...

[UpInArms]

4. unless it's dead on a cross

the right has no appreciation for art :(

"This is a very well-known, respected artist," Schmeltzer said. "Anybody who criticizes a politician for giving an artist space to express himself is out of touch with American values of free expression - especially the culture that exists in cities."

KEO, whose real name is Blake Lethem, once lived in Brooklyn on - where else? - Dean St.

The 37-year-old started his aerosol art career using subway trains as his canvas. His favorites were the 4, the 5 and the old RR. He displays his creations at galleries around the world.

[ldf]

21. no appreciation for art

although dean is my man, i agree with the city on this one.

first, MAYBE, and as you note, that is a BIG maybe, .01% of graffiti can be interpreted as "art". the rest is nothing but tags by gangs as ownership of a neighborhood. they have ruined the windows on the subways and the buses.

i happen to only be able to afford to live in one of those neigborhoods that is absolutely covered with graffiti, and unbelievable piles of trash thrown down by residents, even though trash cans are everywhere. they also throw their trash out of their windows. and i pay 1500 a month.

the graffiti and the trash are two of the biggest blights on new york.

if you want to see "art", go where it is displayed legally. don't slum down my neighborhood because your a selfish bastard that must leave proof of your existence.

shame on dean.

dean in 04!

[frylock]

28. art is in the eye of the beholder..

frankly, I find Monet's fuzzy, unfocused renditions of water lilies to be rather mundane. On the other hand, I quite enjoy viewing the works of unknown artist's throw-ups and murals on their fr8 canvases.

[montana_hazeleyes]

58. Throw ups??

EEEEeeeewwwwwwww!

[Occulus]

31. WOW

Man, just because you have something against the conditions of your neighborhood doesn't in any way mean that graffiti can't be welcomed as a legitimate art form. I say let's give the people a public canvas on which to create. Such a space would take the focus away from the buildings. That, and there are graffiti artists who do paint legimately, as in this guy's case.

I've seen some of the true graffiti artwork, and I must say it's impressive in its own right. I say we mainstream this form of expression.

It's better than repressing it.

[trogdor]

32. I've seen it before.

I'm not sure how it works, but I'd rent the wall for a period of time, say, two weeks at a time. Better work fast, and have plenty of film in your camera, because it disappears 14 days from the time you pay your money.

[ldf]

62. It's better than repressing it

huh?

there's a lot of crap that needs to be repressed.

the garbage that is the majority of the graffiti is just that, garbage. a hastily scribbled signature is nothing but that, a scribble. yet it has to be on every available square surface that they can scribble on, before someone comes by and sees them.

cowards, if it is so damn great, let them do it while everyone is watching. let them be proud of their scribble.

meanwhile, it is just one step in the devolution of a neighborhood. my neigborhood is covered with it on every available surface. but that doesn't mean it is just my neighborhood, because it is everywhere.

you want to live in a slum ghetto, fine. but i have a little respect for my surroundings, and i expect that of others.

trash is trash. period. don't try to make excuses for it and call it someone's "repressed art". pissing on a street corner is repressed art for some, too. but it still stinks.

[Arugula Latte]

23. Also "Thomas Kincaid"

Painter of Light! Bwaa-ha-ha! Those paintings of little firelit cottages surrounded by gardens are so bad they HURT!

[UpInArms]

38. kink-aid makes me

:puke:

and my family has been making a living from "art" for years (and my dad was an oil painter) - not that any of that makes me an expert - but arts function is to evoke an emotional response - positive or negative - and if it has done that, it has served as "art" - and then there is the other one "all things should be made, but not all should be kept" :)

[Caution]

5. Oh my god! not GRAFFITI!

What a horrible thing to do...i love the spin on this story. People think of graffiti as some idiot tagging a wall with his name. Well guess what folks, it can also be an artform, a symbol of social protest and a signal of the need for social change. It's time to start calling these reporters who spin these stories exactly what they are. Cowards. Giving a story a conservative spin labeled a part of the "liberal media" needs to stop.

[He loved Big Brother]

13. You know...

I've always thought the most impressive thing about graffiti was that it was placed in hard-to-reach areas that a lot of people can see, like along the freeway overpass, or behind a presidential candidate. Some of it is useless profane words we've all been speaking since we were 8, but some of it is very nicely done, so of course the it has to be taken away. I have to look at a profane message scrawled on one of the few pillars holding up the Seattle monorail, (another hard-to-tag place that a lot of people would see, imo) almost daily when I lived downtown. It's probably still there.

But I bet if someone had written something like "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one," or "No war for oil", it would be immediately scrubbed off.

And note to taggers: if you're lucky enough to find the streets and roads deserted enough at any given time to tag a risky area that a lot of folks will see, what's with the wasted oppurtunities? I'm guessing not many are easily impressed with slogans of what sex acts you'd like the females in your life to perform on you. We all want that in some form or another, we just don't put it in such a crude manner...if it was important enough to risk getting caught or seen by police, and maybe even life and limb, why not use the occasion to, say, convey a message with just a little significance?

When tagging, I think handy to ask yourself something like; "WWRATMD" <---What Would Rage Against the Machine Do?

They would tag something that moved people who read it in some way, not "Suck my balls".

[markses]

16. As somebody who grew up

writing graffiti in NYC, I can assure you that one doesn't wait for the streets to be empty to tag. Tagging is done all the time. It's amazing what people do and DO NOT notice. Highways are especially easy - even the folks that see you see you too late to stop and say anything, and most folks wouldn't do that anyway. When the cops saw us, they'd circle around the next exit - it was easy enough to cross the highway and foil that move...The only reason the highways aren't still covered is cuz the city buffs that stuff immediately now, so nobody wants to risk big, colorful stuff (takes more time) for something that may not run (i.e., stay up) for more than a day or two.

Oh well. This was all in the late-1980's, so I've been out of the community for awhile. Was a helluva time, though, and met lots of talented and fierce people. It is, of course, invariably linked to gang activity: you write, you fight, that was the law when I was involved, although I've read accounts that that figfhting culture around graffiti really developed in the mid-80's, where previous graffiti writers in NYC were much more interested in the art and cooperation than in fighting and beef....

[Pepper]

25. Thank You

I could not agree with you more!!!

[stickdog]

7. No art allowed

other than the art of deception.

[demnan]

9. There's nasty graffiti and there's graffiti art

and I thought the backdrop was very tasteful and hip graffiti art. I like the way graffiti art has been used in many settings, it's the art and expression of the urban landscape. Bloomberg has a "tin eye" if he can't tell the difference.

[zizzer]

10. Did you know...

that there is still graffiti in the tombs of egypt left by Romans that is still legible?

I understand not wanting kids to paint subway cars but how the hell is this offensive. I think Bloomburge is playing into the hype and doing Dean a favor. More noise, more coverage more exposure for Dean. Bloomburge is shooting himself in the foot.

[pansypoo53219]

20. one

of my favorite thing in the Big Museum in NYC was that actual mini pyramid covered in ancient graffitti from roman to napoleon. I took pictures of it. a very human thing-graffitti.

[markses]

12. Will Bloomberg rant against 9/11 Commemorative graffiti?

There are many legal walls in NYC for graffiti murals, including the Phun Factory, a factory for legal murals just as you come out of the 7 Train tunnel into Queens.

We also have a number of legal murals dedicated to lost loved ones and others, not to mention commemorative murals for 9/11:










Bloomberg's an asshole. All of these appear in NYC, and all represent a way for a community to memorialize its experience. Bloomberg must be in trouble. Whenever a NYC mayor can't get shit done, they hit the old graffiti card - the easiest out there is. It's a fucking load of shit. As a NYC resident, I have to say that I dig the graffiti, even the tags n stuff. It makes the city feel alive, and breaks through the the calm order of bureaucracy. As for Dean using the graffiti backdrop, I have to admit that as soon as I saw it, I knew he would catch some shit for it, but it was fine w/ me.

[Sentath]

37. Beautiful

I'm not so much for the middle one, but I'd display in my home a good print of the top one.

[MostlyBlackCat2]

14. remember the Bush boxes

anyone got the pic from Bush's speech last spring where he had them cover up the made in china labels on the boxes?

[leQ]

22. here

is that the one you wanted?

[mumon]

15. It's kind of outrageous for Resident F*ckface to use the WTC

as a backdrop for his campaigning.

Shut the f*ck up Bloomberg.

[HFishbine]

17. Errr

[markses]

18. Yeah, but this person is about to paint over the graffiti?

Notice the roller in hand?

[drscm]

19. It is far better to decorate the nations air with pollutants. eom

eom

[rocktivity]

24. Graffiti is only vandalism when it's done ILLEGALLY

It this was in reality a backdrop, then he did nothing wrong.



rocknation

[meow2u3]

26. Bloomie can afford to clean up the grafitti --he's a billionaire!

Let him clean up the mess if he doesn't like it!

Typical Repuke billionaire arrogance. The SOB acts as if God died and left him in charge--just like the rest of those tyrants known as the GOP!!!!

[farmbo]

27. Looks like we're going to have to bring back the Special Prosecutor

...Act.

:eyes:

[Ediacara]

29. Any images of the graffiti?

I did a google search and went to deanforamerica, and both turned up nothing.

[Chico Man]

30. Here you go

[Ediacara]

33. do you have a link to it?

the image is not showing up for me (and probably others).

[Chico Man]

40. http://photos.deanforamerica.com/photos/695422-M.jpg

[Chico Man]

41. http://photos.deanforamerica.com/gallery/20378

http://photos.deanforamerica.com/gallery/20378

[Occulus]

34. Busted link

[trogdor]

35. All you get now is the thumbnail.

Here is the pic in question.

[markses]

39. More than one writer did that mural

If you look directly behind Dean's head, there is an "S" followed by a partially obscured "P" - That's SP ONE, who was really active in the late 1980's. He used to bomb with DASH, BL ONE and DORO (until DORO got hit by a car and killed, if I remember correctly). They were from Queens (or so I assumed) and used to hook up BFB crew (Break Fast Bombers) and were also affiliated with TMR (The Master Race) in Northern Queens (Bayside area). A lot is fuzzy from that part of my life! ;-) The other stuff is done by other writers (the TC5 crew in the "E", for example). I'm guessing they recruited the one guy to do the "mural" (these are really fill-ins rather than pieces, and wouldn't quite count as a "mural"), and he called in some other writers to get in on the action. In any case, everyone there is relatively old school, and probably no longer very active, if active at all. TFP is represented, along with AOK (All Out Kings written in silver in the red "N").

[Eloriel]

46. Old school? Try showing his work in GALLERIES:

Last line of the article:

He displays his creations at galleries around the world.


Fascinating info, markses. Who knew you led such an "illustrious" life?

:evilgrin:

Eloriel

[markses]

48. Street Graffiti is one thing, Galleries is another

Quite frankly, I prefer the former to the latter, but I understand how values are different for people outside the subculture...;-)

[markses]

53. Here's the same guy in a sticker

That says SP ROC. Compare the SP to that appearing behind Dean's head.

[StandWatie]

36. Dean can jump up my ass on this..

There was a small, but telling, incident back in 1996, when anti-death penalty protestors who were in town opposing (the Pennsylvania governor) Tom Ridges approval of Mumia Abu Jamals execution sprayed FREE MUMIA graffiti at the Ethan Allen Homestead. The judge ruled, over the prosecutor's objection, that the defendants could use a "necessity defense", i.e. to speak of their motivations and analysis of Mumia's situation, rather than just admit to spraying paint. Dean was disappointed with that decision. "These guys are a bunch of hoods running around our streets," Dean commented. "I don't think this has anything to do with the necessity offense --imported hoods I might add. People who spray paint and deface public property are hoodlums not protesters with some higher purpose. I have no patience for that." Reporter Peter Freyne, now one of Dean's great supporters, asked his readers at the time to "Remember the guy who once said 95 percent of people charged with crimes are guilty anyway so why should the state spend money on providing them with lawyers?"

http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html

Hypocrite.

[Chico Man]

42. I'll take CounterPunch into consideration..

However, they are wholly Anti-Dean to the extreme, and have been since the beginning of the insurgence.

I guess in the quest for the perfect candidate CounterPunch would rather have Bush lead our country.

counterPunch and their supporters takes the side of Mayor Bloomberg: now what could be more hypocritical than that?

Sorry, but Dean provides my only gleam of hope that this country could possibly get back on the right track. counterPunch is taking tactics straight out of the Rovian playbook.

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Counter Punch isn't taking Bloomberg's side at all. Bloomberg

criticized Dean for encouraging a graffiti artist at a Dean rally -- that's the article referenced at the beginning of this thread.

As those who read it know, the Counter Punch article details a number of Dean's conservative actions and comments as Vermont's governor, one of which involved Dean's criticism of graffiti done by protesters in Vermont. No mention is made of Dean's NY rally or Bloomberg's criticism in this article.

Two entirely separate events are involved here.

[Chico Man]

50. CounterPunch view of "Conservative action:"

Doing business.

[Sean Reynolds]

51. In other words, you're saying this article has nothing to do with the thrd

So why post it? :eyes:

[Sean Reynolds]

43. And this has to do with the main subject how?

Why don't you go find the countless Dean bashin' threads to post this is.....

[DemBones DemBones]

54. Thread is about Bloomberg criticizing Dean for encouraging

graffiti in "his" city. Quote from CounterPunch article is about then- Governor Dean criticizing graffiti in "his" state. The DUer who posted it suggested that it was hypocritical that Dean criticized graffiti in Vt. and encouraged it at his rally in NYC. What do you not get about the relationship?

It's not "Dean bashing" to report on something that Dean said or did. People need to know what Dean's record is. Here's another Dean quote:

". . . in 1993, when defending his welfare reform proposals during a weekly press conference, Dean said: "Those recipients don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working."

Sounds like Ronald Reagan to me.

[Chico Man]

55. Thanks for including those illipses in your quote

It emphasizes the importance of context.

Knowing Dean's record does not involve being exposed to quotes liking Dean to Reagan.

You should join the Rove team of Dean assault specialists.

[DemBones DemBones]

63. Anyone who wants context could click on the link that was given

twice already. I didn't include the text because it's lengthy but here you go, two paragraphs explaining what Dean did to the poor in Vermont. The quote I cited, where Dean says welfare recipients have no self esteem or they'd be working, is in the second paragraph. Context doesn't change his meaning at all.

You may not like comparisons of Dean to Reagan, but anyone who looks at Dean's record and remembers what Reagan did to the poor, to special education, etc., knows I'm absolutely right to make that comparison. Dean supporters who can't see the connection are in denial.


"Under Deans leadership, Vermont started welfare reform two years before the mandatory federal program was put in place. Beginning in 1994, one-third of Vermont applicants for cash assistance were subject to work requirements similar to those eventually adopted nationally. (Another third received financial incentives for getting a paying job, and the rest received standard benefits without incentives or penalties). Was the plan a success? Well, most welfare recipients (87%) got jobs on their own during the six years of the Vermont welfare reform experiment. Cash assistance payments went down, and more people were working in the robust economy of the mid 1990s. But according to the official evaluation of the project (published by the Manpower Development Research Corporation in September 2000), total family incomes did not change -- but families worked more hours for a total earnings and cash assistance package averaging less that $12,000 annually.

Howard Dean thinks that's success -- and it fits his arrogant and ultimately unfair view of welfare recipients. What is that opinion? Well, in 1993, when defending his welfare reform proposals during a weekly press conference, Dean said: "Those recipients don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working." While he later apologized for these callous remarks, his policies remained firmly in the "they won't work unless they have to" vein. Dean also used his position as chair of the National Governor's Association to promote "flexibility" in welfare reform at the national level--a code word for removing then current federal minimum standards and protections for recipients of public assistance. In other words, states could be as mean as they wanted to be towards those out of work and without income."

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Everyone needs to read that article about Dean.

If you support Dean, be sure to read the advice given in the last two paragraphs of the article, advice specifically for people who are going to vote for Dean -- advice about making him keep his promises.

http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html

[Chico Man]

47. That paragraph would (and should) apply to any elected official

The fall of Democracy is no less the fault of the people as it is the fault of those holding power.

Also, we luckily have the "Republicans" ready to perform these actions to the "extreme" against any democratic elected offical at the drop of a hat.

[DemBones DemBones]

52. Glad to see you read it -- and I agree that we need to keep tabs on

whoever is elected. But I disagree that those holding power have no greater responsibility than the people do. We put people into office to represent us and to do what they promised to do. They should keep up their end of the bargain so that we don't have to constantly monitor their actions and comments.

[Chico Man]

56. At least people should vote

constantly monitoring the actions and comments of elected officals will be done naturally by the opposition. The people's responsibility is to vote.

[KaraokeKarlton]

57. I'm sure NY would be thrilled if someone tagged

"Don't attack Iraq" across the Statue of Liberty. Hiring someone to make a goddamned hip backdrop is a DUMB reason for the mayor to complain. Also, comparing the backdrop to spray painting one of Vermont's most significant historical sites is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. I heard Dean was wearing the same brand of shoes as McVeigh

Shame on him for wearing shoes that carried the man who blew up the Murrow building. </sarcasm>


Fair & Balanced Buttons — The Cronus Connection

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Excellent 'toon.

[RetroLounge]

60. This is nothing more than right wing talking points

and it's only purpose is to give Rush Limpballs, Hannity, OReally, Scar-face-borough and other wingers something to talk about.

and you can be sure Bow Tie Boy will make carville defend it...

Very Rovian...

[demgrrrll]

61. If Rove wants to run against Dean so badly why is he trashing him?

Tee hee hee. Rove tips his hand earlier than expected.

[robbedvoter]

64. Memo to NYCers: vote "NO" on non-partisan elections next year

It seems unbelievable but this same Bloomberg who supports W on poisoning NYC on 9.11 and accuses Dean of non-PC backdroppism sez parties don't count and want us to have non-partisan elections for Mayor (on the ballot next year). Yet another GOP maneuver - that is done only in Dem dominated cities (LA already bought it)
As for the backdrop - it was beautiful! (and I don't like grafitti all over - but it looked great there). Here's a saner view on it (and how it started):
http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=641