Chilling call to murder as music attacks gays

[CShine]

In the heat of January in Jamaica 30,000 people came to the Rebel Salute concert in St. Elizabeth to hear some of the nation's most popular singers deliver a chilling call. With Capleton and Sizzla singing almost exclusively about gay men, the call went out from the stadium:

"Kill dem battybwoys haffi dead, gun shots pon dem ... who want to see dem dead put up his hand" (Kill them, the queers have to die, gun shots in their head ... put up your hand if you want to see them dead.)

Two weeks ago Jamaica's most prominent gay activist, Brian Williamson, was murdered at his home. Mr Williamson, a co-founder of Jamaican Forum for Lesbians, All-sexuals and Gays (J-FLAG), was found with multiple stab wounds to his neck and his face and his throat cut. With his safe missing and his room ransacked, the police insist that it was a robbery and have one person in custody. Jamaica's gay activists and human rights campaigners are not so sure. They fear Mr Williamson could have been targeted because of his sexual orientation.

"Given the climate that exists in Jamaica there is high possibility that Brian's murder is a hate related crime and we don't want the police to rule that out," said a representative of J-FLAG, who did not wish to be named for fear of reprisals. Brian was one of the few people who felt comfortable enough to go public with his homosexuality."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/gayrights/story/0,12592,1247769,00.html

[LondonAmerican]

1. The only good thing

is that they banned that asshole 'Beenie Man' (he should be banned just for that stupid name) from the UK.

The moron spends most of his time rambling on stage about gunning down 'chi chi men' (gay men).

He was due to come here for some gigs and the gov't let it be known that he'd have his sorry ass thrown in jail if he tried to perform that crap here.

[mom cat]

7. Great going UK. I wish the homophobes here would have to lick duct tape.

[Mnemosyne]

2. Most homophobes I've met

had a normal curiosity about other boys as children and were so shamed by all they heard from adults in their life say, decided to hate anyone else that couldn't change being, who they were naturally born to be.

very sad group, to be so threatened by someone else's sexuality.

I fear for my friends all the time.

Ignorance is not bliss, it is sad and pitiful.

[luaneryder]

4. I've felt threatened by other folks

religion, but never by someone's sexuality. This hate must stem from exactly what you described. One's sexuality is not a choice like religion, where you live, even what color your hair is-these three can be changed. It's sickening how human beings treat one another.

[Mnemosyne]

8. agreed, luaneryder, on all points!

Welcome to DU!!!!


anyone else having trouble getting smilies to work?

Hugs to you anyway luan!

[The Animator]

33. Ignorance is only blissful to the ignorant, Vickiss

To the enlightened mind it is sad and pitiful. The difference is in the perspective.

According to Socrates, "True wisdom is knowing that you know nothing." Ironically, I learned that little nugget of wisdom from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. It implies that acknowledging that you do not have all the answers is the first step towards enlightenment. In facing the daunting reality that there are many things in this world that you don't know, you come to accept that someone who disagrees with you might not necissarily be wrong. You also may conclude that there are some questions with several right answers, and still others that have none.

Just as you appreciate that there are answers waiting to be discovered that you don't even have the questions to yet, there are those who are ignorant to their own ignorance. These people, suffering under the delusion that they are all knowing (or at least have put their faith in something they believe to be all knowing) when confronted by something they disagree with, assume that it is wrong, because they themselves, (or the object of their faith) can never be wrong.

The enlightened mind seeks out that which it does not understand. It is intrigued by the infinite mysteries of the universe and strives to comprehend them. I have found that people who are willing to take that journey, tend to be more tolerant of people who are different than them, are intrigued by those differences, and may endeavor to understand them.

The ignorant, as many movie cliches have implied, fear what they do not understand. To quote another wise old sage, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to Jar-Jar..." well, you get the idea anyway. Spending most of my adult life working as a low-end, underpaid theme park employee, I have become adept at perceiving, and have become increasingly intolerant of, ignorance. However I am attempting to understand the nature of ignorance lest I suffer from it myself.

Sometimes it isn't a conscious choice on a persons part to be ignorant. It is possible they simply do not have access to the same information that we do. For example, their are towns in this country with only one newspaper, and every channel on TV keeps spewing out the same crap over and over again. One cannot help change the world if he is not first made aware that the world needs changing.

My only reccomendation for curing ignorance is getting the word out, and spreading it as far as one can. So spread the word, whatever your words may be. And if you ever come to a themepark in Central Florida, be sure to bring your brains with you.

P.S. Trying to understand the pricks involved in the deaths others due to race, religion, or sexual orientation is another matter. They just need to rot in whatever hell we can cook up for them.

Peace, Love, and Chicken Grease.

The Animator

[Mnemosyne]

34. Did you read my reply?

[The Animator]

35. Yes, I read it.

I wasn't critizing you or anything, just waxing philosophic. Your line about ignorance not being bliss, but sad and pitiful, was just a jumping point.

And the point still holds true weather we are talking about something large and political or something personal.

For example, I had a strong friendship with someone a while back. I was really attracted to her and I was beginning to think she could be attracted to me as well. I was happier when I was around her than I had been in years. One day I asked her about it, because not knowing where I stood with her was driving me crazy. I had just set myself up for the biggest let down of the new Millenium. She was in love with someone else. Even though every signal I got from her was flirtatious and every look we shared lingered, I would never be anything more to her than a friend. The following months were very dificult to get through. At times I wished that I could go back to not knowing where I stood with her. I felt that I could remain happy in the delusion that she could love me, even if it wasn't true.

In the long run, I was better off knowing the truth. Does it feel to me like I'm better off, no. Sometimes the truth hurts, weather it be personal, or something larger, like the realization that your country is neither perfect, nor invinsible, so I can understand why some would shy from it, sad and pitiful as that might be.

[Mnemosyne]

40. So sorry you were hurt so much, Animator!

It is still better to have the truth than live a lie that makes us happy. If no truth, no true happiness.

I started to meditate/pray to see clearly last fall, and though much of what I've learned has hurt, I am so grateful for having my vision of the world and those around me cleared.

Are you young? It's much harder when you are younger, because we so want the world to be the way we wish it were, and don't like to see the things that sometimes scream in our faces that things are not the way we hoped they were.

It can get easier, if we don't take ourselves or the world too personally.Don't mean not to care, we must care or the lessons are lost. Hard to do at times, but I keep trying and it gets easier. This life is a classroom.

It helps to keep a good sense of humor, in most all things, even those that can make us cry. Because the things we are angry or afraid of or hurt over rarely matter as much in 6 months, less in a year and in 100 years don't matter at all.

Take care and see you round the DU!

And welcome to DU!!!

:toast: :smoke: :hi:

[jukes]

3. the human species

is ALL about horror.


those lyrics make me want to vomit up my humanity in a gut-twisting purge.

[DS1]

20. Yeah, there's nothing to humanity but 'horror'. Please.

:eyes:

[Mnemosyne]

41. Don't forget to look at the beautiful people too!

Yes, there are people that do terrible things, but there are so many trying so hard to do good things, great things even.

Those that live by horror are sad. Ask ,what made them that way. No one is born evil, it is learned in most cases.

Are you feeling very cynical right now? If so, please don't let it destroy you, it will. I have to look for the good somedays or get very discouraged by all I learn from seeing clearly, but it's worth it.

Take care and go easy on yourself!

:hug:

:smoke:

:party:

[silverpatronus]

5. i'm from the west indies...

and sadly, as beautiful as it is here, it's also probably the most homophobic region in the world, with jamaica leading the pack. the general intolerance is incredible.

[Dr Fate]

6. Does the Marley family speak out against this?

I visit Jamaica about once a year, and I've picked up on the homophobibia that exists.

This movement in their music is disturbing- I know the Marleys are still loved & respected there - do they speak out against this?

[silverpatronus]

17. i've never heard a marley say anything for or against the homophobia...

but the homophobic culture is so ingrained in jamaica, that unless it's specifically said otherwise, the general wisdom is to assume homophobia.

[playahata1]

26. Cedella Marley, Bob's daughter, is an actress who has

worked on productions with gay themes and gay cast members. She is on record as saying that she has no problems with gay people. (The Beat Magazine)

I don't know about Cedella's brothers, but I did read a clip about Ziggy meeting Dennis Rodman, the basketballl player who -- as our more sports-minded DUers may know -- has challenged certain assumptions of what it means to be a male athlete, to be male, period. The reporter assumed that Ziggy, as a proud Jamaican and devout Rastafarian, would not accept Rodman. Ziggy replied, when asked about his encounter with Rodman: "Him cool."

[Dr Fate]

52. I'm glad to hear that. n/t

n/t

[Raster]

51. why is that??? why are the west indies one of the most homophobic...

...areas? Early catholic influences? what???

[Neshanic]

9. Capleton and Sizzla ....Eminem on line 2 holding for you.

So, we have homophobes in Jamaica singing about offing gays.

Riddle me this. How does this differ from Eminem sing offensive songs about gays here, that walk a fine line of violence against gays?

Oh...it's Jamaica, I get it.

[Prodemsouth]

10. Yes it is different, Eminem didn't say nothing like what these guys said.

Most people I have met from the West Indies, esp, men are very homophobic and have made it a point that they were anti gay, when anything regarding gays came up.
Does anyone have a clue as to why.

[Beware the Beast Man]

11. I second that (on Eminem)

While I'm no fan of his, he uses the word "fag" in his songs as a replacement for something like "loser" or "idiot." Though I don't agree with that myself, it's not anything near what these guys are spewing.

Speaking of which, remember back in the 90's when Shabba Ranks made some comment that gays should be "crucified?" That killed his career momentum pretty damn fast.

[Prodemsouth]

12. Thanks... But Davey was a Lutheran not part of the religious right type of

Christian

[Beware the Beast Man]

14. Oh I know...

I thought that D & G was quite a tolerant little show back in the day. But the Davey in my sigline is the leaner, meaner, neocon-fundie Davey (kind of like the Gravy & Jobriath catroon on the Simpsons).

[Prodemsouth]

16. Just having some nitpicking fun.. I actually like it- LOL when I saw it

I missed Gray & Jobriath was that a take off on Davy and Goliath on the Simpsons? Would love to see it.. Did you see the time Ned Flanders asked his older son where the younger son (sorry Ned's sons names escapes me)was learning foul language (it was Homer). Ned ask the older boy is it from that cartoon Davy and Goliath. The older boys says "no, he thinks a talking dog is blasphemous".

[daleo]

15. I suppose a hypothesis might be something like:

Part of the process of slavery and the later legacy was emasculation of African males. This may have produced a tendency to overcompensate regarding sexuality. Of course, other countries that had plenty of experience with slavery and colonialism seem rather tolerant (e.g. Brazil, although I may wrong about that for all I know).

[playahata1]

25. I was hoping someone would pick up on this.

There is another Jamaican dance-hall artist who has caught some flak for homophobic lyrics: Buju Banton, with "Boom-Bye-Bye." In a Vibe article on Buju and Jamaican homophobia, it is explained that, because of the culture's hypermasculinity, it is considered an even bigger deal when a male child is molested -- the (false) assumption being, of course, that gay men rape little boys.

Also, any non-procreative sex -- heterosexual as well as homosexual -- is a no-no. In Rastafarian culture, for example, men are encouraged to have as many children as possible -- even out of wedlock, with different women -- in order to ensure the survival of the black race in the "New World." Even among non-Rastafarian West Indian men, the need to procreate is strong: the more children you sire, the more of a "man" you are. TRANSLATION: Two men can't make a baby.

[shanti]

36. do not generalize

i know plenty of rastas (have been involved with a couple romantically) and nonprocreative sex is the rule, not the exception. there are several different sects of rastas and they all have differing ideas on a variety of subjects, with a core belief system about JAH. my exboyfriend, a rasta, lived in san francisco for quite awhile and was quite used to gays. i never heard him say anything negative about gays or even bring up the subject.

you are probably referring to bobo dreads/bobo shanti rastas. they ARE hardcore. capleton and the others in the original article are members of that sect.

[playahata1]

38. I understand that there are differences between the sects.

What you say is indeed true. Anyway, are the Bobos a long-established sect? If so, is that why they are so hardcore -- in that they are very old school in their beliefs regarding sexuality and gender roles?

I just dug up Rasta and Resistance: from Marcus Garvey to Walter Rodney, by Horace Campbell. I used this book as part of my research on Rastafari for some postcolonial literature courses I took in grad school. (I have an M.A. and a Ph.D. in English, and I would like to teach Caribbean literature in addition to my primary areas of African American literature and creative writing.) I am going to re-read this. I also have The Rastafarians, by Leonard Barrett.

My interest in Rastafari, however, took root long before I even thought of attending grad school. Listening to Bob Marley and other Jamaican musicians made me want to examine Rastafari culture in particular and Jamaican (and Caribbean) culture in general.

Thanks for your input. Peace and blessings.

[silverpatronus]

18. yes, that's sadly true...

west indian men in the majority are staunchly anti-gay. so are a lot of west indian women. it has a lot to do with religion, but also a lot to do with some pretty screwed up ideas of what makes a man. the attitudes ARE changing, but the change is slow. here in trinidad, we have a community of 'ambiguously' gay people...i.e. they have never come out and said that they are gay to the society, but they are known to be gay. they're generally safe because they're mostly in the arts, which down here is assumed to be synonymous with gay anyway, so homophobes stay away from the arts. i honestly would fear for them if they came out loudly.

i love my country, i love my region, but sometimes i cry for how backward the people here truly are.

[jdj]

24. I knew this had to be the carribean before I even read

the post. I heard an interview on NPR where they were equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

What is the main religion? Colonialism seems to produce extremism wherever it goes, but I wonder if the aboriginal religions were more tolerant. Or not... I don't know much about it.

I hate that someone mentioned Beenie Man, they are playing his new song on MTV and it is awesome, it is so nice to hear a reggae beat in the main stream. There is another song with Festival dancers that is in rotation, too, it is awesome to hear some traditional African genres being drawn from, in fact, Black artists are referencing everthing right now and it is the only thing worth watching on MTV.

[playahata1]

27. It all comes from fucked-up interpretations of the Scriptures

by both Christians and Rastafarians.

[saskatoon]

19. made it a point that they were anti gay, when anything regarding gays came

Yes, I have heard the thought voiced that the ones who are the most vociferous against it are the ones who have had feelings in that direction.

[Prodemsouth]

21. As Rick Santorum said with a lisp on the Senate floor... me thinks you

protest too much:7

[playahata1]

23. A lot of it has to do with religion.

Whether one is Christian or Rastafarian (particularly in Jamaica), certain Biblical teachings are interpreted as being anti-gay. Also, there is an extremely masculinist culture in the Caribbean in general.

[snoochie]

13. you really don't see the difference?

Eminem sings about having a problem with gays. That's his right as an American to feel however he wants, as long as he doesn't hassle or harm anyone. These singers are inciting violence, *that's* the difference.

[jdj]

22. Okay, so he just sings about raping his mother, and

killing his wife.

And Stan drives off a bridge with his pregnant girlfriend locked in the trunk of a car.

Yeah, you're right, quite a difference. Thank God Eminem is so enlightened.

[LondonAmerican]

28. Eminem is scum

and that doesn't change the fact that these guys like 'Beenie Man' are even worse scum since they are openly calling for genocide.

Would you be so understanding of them if they were calling for the mass extermination of groups other than gays?

[Prodemsouth]

29. That is not what we are saying.. We are saying what they said is worse

in the area of anti gay lyrics. They are advocating killing gay men. I am not saying Eminem is cool, I don't like him. I think you are saying we should give these guys a pass because Eminem made homophobic remarks in the past or we are jumping on them because they are from the West Indies. (Implying that we are racist for condemning them here- which is very offensive to me).

[Neshanic]

30. That's right, call em fags, denegrate them up to that fine line

Eminem likes to straddle. His songs about fags are so supportive, why I do not know how the gay kids can live without that wonderfull songster really getting groovy with the fag types, and his uplifting renditions. We really need to get these Jamaica guys more airplay here.

Just call me an old fashioned fag, these kids with the hating us music.

[Moloch]

42. Well I'm gay and I don't mind the word fag

If you take away the offense of a word, you take away its meaning. It's not the same as talking about killing gay people..

[bhairava]

44. eminem is paler

Just like the 'scandal' over the song "Cop killer" revealed many songs in the rock and roll and country catalogs which said similar things (yet were not widely reported upon), who says what still matters and race still matters. Eminem is 'ironic', he doesn't mean what he says, is a frequent lame refrain. Black rappers are held to a different standard. The great white hope is immune from ALL the usual criticisms of hip hop. Black people are incapable of irony, exaggeration or verbal complexity according to these music 'critics'. The same with regards to misogyny. Apparently only hip hop artists's videos feature scantily clad women.

In any case the Eminems and Dr. Dres may be homophobes. They are aren't making policy. The homophobia which drives policy manifests in candidates from both parties being against marriage equality. The differences are only of degree on some issues. So to my mind, George W. Bush is more of a bigot than Eminem or Dr Dre.

[psychopomp]

31. Say it ain't so!

Sizzla and Capelton too? Damn, they are the two hottest DJ's on the island, and otherwise very positive influences on the music by keeping it roots and artistically innovative. I am a fan and very dissapointed.

Here is a link to an article about an effort to keep Beenie Man, Elephant Man (who I saw live two months ago) and Bounty Killer out of the UK because of their lyrical incitement to anti-gay violence:

http://www.365gay.com/NewsContent/091703tatchellRap.htm

So sad that the message of tolerance has not been extended to homosexuals in Jamaica.

[dsc]

32. Depressing

but they are hardly the only ones. In January of this year Russert, Broder, Brownstein, and a couple of others laughed at the idea of gay supporters of Dean being beat up by union supporters of Gephardt. To my knowledge not one media critic had a problem with that.

[Divine Discontent]

37. well that just pisses me off further!

I guess it's suppose to be a joke (dean - gephardt supporters fighting), but regardless, I agree with the post way above that says, "messed up interpretations of scripture". amen.

john 3:16 - WHOSOEVER

God is inclusive, contrary to Baptist and other teaching....

[playahata1]

47. Welcome to DU, dallan.

n/t

[fujiyama]

43. If they actually laughed about that

that is disgusting behavior...

And these are some of the great so called "journalists" in this country. How appauling.

[burrowowl]

39. Very disgusting!

If I could afford to go to Jamaica, I wouldn't. Of course it appears that they also beat down on there fellow citizens, is Reich involved, is the U$ involved?

[htuttle]

45. Is homosexuality still against the law in Jamaica?

(checking...) It looks like it is still illegal.

Homophobia and misogyny are the two things about Reggae music that keep it from being perfect. Unfortunately, both are deeply rooted in Rastafarian culture, and are institutionalized in the law in Jamaica.

[psychopomp]

46. Whoa

Beg to differ on the misogyny. What gives you that idea?

[htuttle]

49. What gives me that idea?

Um, well, the lyrics of many songs, the experiences I've had spending time with Rastafarians (and their wives/girlfriends), and from what I've heard from women that have been married to or gone out with Rastafarians over the years.

Granted, the misogyny in Reggae music is different than that in, say, gangsta rap. It's not about calling them 'hos', but more like 'woman shall not wear the clothes of a man' type stuff (from a Steel Pulse song, IIRC).

I know that it's not Rastafarianism, per se, that gives rise to this, but it has been a part of the culture from which it springs. I'm also aware that this has been a point of discussion in the Rastafarian community for some time.

There is plenty of Reggae which rises above this, Bob Marley and clan generally avoided putting a lot of this in their music -- but it's still there in Bob's earlier stuff, sometimes in 'code'.

[playahata1]

48. I would think, however, that misogyny and homophobia

PREDATE Rastafari, which has only been in existence since the 1930s.

Rastafari, despite its hostility to Christianity as it is practiced and propagated in the West, draws much of its philosophy from the Bible. Furthermore, many Rastafari, past and present, were raised as Christians; they have brought these sexist and homophobic attitudes -- which for many people are justified by Church teachings -- into their new faith. Rastafari did not write the book on sexism and homophobia.

[htuttle]

50. Oh, I know all that

Ultimately, I place the blame for most homophobia and a lot of the misogyny in the world on the book of Leviticus.

:shrug: