The President Sidesteps a Question About Whether Torture Is Ever Justified

[CShine]

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush said Thursday he ordered U.S. officials to follow the law while interrogating suspected terrorists, but he sidestepped an opportunity to denounce the use of torture.
Bush's comments came as a 2-year-old State Department document surfaced warning the White House that failing to apply international standards against torture could put U.S. troops at risk.

"What I've authorized is that we stay within U.S. law," Bush told reporters at the close of the G-8 summit in Savannah, Ga. Asked if torture is ever justified, Bush replied, "Look, I'm going to say it one more time. ... The instructions went out to our people to adhere to law. That ought to comfort you."

Bush's strongest condemnation on the issue of prisoner treatment has come in regard to the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. The president has said he shared "a deep disgust" over the conduct by U.S. soldiers involved in the abuse, declaring that is "not the way we do things in America." Bush's comments follow disclosure of Justice Department memos to the White House advising the president that he could suspend international treaties prohibiting torture. The Justice Department also told the White House that U.S. laws against torture do not apply to the war on terror. Bush said he doesn't recall seeing any of the Justice Department advice.

Democrats say that by suggesting that Bush could legally authorize torture, the memos could have laid the legal foundation for Iraqi prisoner abuses at Abu Ghraib prison. The memos say torture "may be justified" against al-Qaida detainees in U.S. custody abroad and laws and treaties barring torture could be trumped by the president's supreme authority to act as necessary in wartime.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBJ73QJBVD.html

[shraby]

1. The Justice Dep't lawyers

have decided that torture is not against the law, so when Bush is saying "What I've authorized is that we stay within U.S. law" means that he could okay torture without breaking the law.

[saigon68]

39. I hope someone RAMS a plastic Pipe up his Rectum someday

Then he could sing soprano in the church of his choice.

[salinen]

2. "That ought to comfort you."

wwwwwwhat a worthless pile of pus this fucker is.

[Hobarticus]

27. Classy, GW

What an arrogant ass.

[Dover]

3. He's probably afraid people might 'justify' using it on him!

U.S. law....NOT international laws?

[crossroads]

4. I see he is 'tortured' about telling the truth...

This is scary, it looks like he believes he is above the law...
:eyes:

[madaboutharry]

5. There have been a thousand times when

many of us here have been convinced that something came along on the radar screen that was finally going to be "The Thing" that was going to bring Bush down. And every time, it slid right off him like an egg off a greasy pan. But, I now think that this is going to be "The Thing" that isn't going to get away. We are talking about war crimes, and that is a whole different matter.

[Mokito]

12. Oh, but from what I've read much is rumbling underneath his feet.

"The Thing"(s) may have slid off, but many haven't left. They all just keep on simmering, reaching a boiling point, ready to burst open.

[seventhson]

6. Bush is a war criminal: he authorized it and the whole Bush-shit cabal

is responsible and must be held accountable under the law: war crimes trials, conviction, and prison for all of these bastards.

Torture is a crime against humanity in this context and ONLY prison for Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft and Rumsfeld will restore US integrity in the eyes of the world and in the eyes of history.

If we fail to hold them accountable we will suffer the consequences of our own complicity in torture and murder.

November 2004 is only the first step in justice for these depraved assholes who believe laws agaiunst such crimes do not apply to them THEREBY putting our troops and our citizens at deeper risk of harm by those who will follow their lead and example of mindless brutality.

[Disturbed]

7. Plausible Deniability

Unless a document emerges that proves that the Pres. authorized "abuse" and/or torture nothing can be done.

Asscrack on the other hand seems to be in a bind because the memo came from his office, right? Was he in Contempt of Congress? Did he lie under oath? Will anyone in Congress do the job that they swore an oath to do?

[Rose Siding]

8. How unctuous

What good is staying within the law when he's been told he can determine the very parameters of the law?

If a nation approves of torture as a means of self defense, maybe its no longer worth defending.

So much talk about law and reciprocity and ticking bombs as motives and "where to draw the line"- how about right and wrong? Pardon my pedestrian reference, but I understand "Do unto others..."

[kungfugrip]

9. International treaties ARE the law of the land.

They should have asked Bush whether torture is even effective.

[stumpmunky]

10. turn the screw

if the use of torture could have yeilded information to stop 9/11 would that be ok??? I would have put one of those bastard's nuts in a vise!!

[silverlib]

11. and what if?

turning the screw on one of ours could have prevented the invasion of Iraq?

And in looking at your profile, are we your "hobby?"

[donotpassgo]

14. I will repeat my question from my other name

Does torture work? Is bad information gained through torture good for us?

[Darranar]

13. What law?

International law? Or Bush's law?

[dusty64]

15. Of course he "sidestepped"

he can't possibly answer, although lying has never been a problem for him before.

[stumpmunky]

16. sometimes u have to turn the screw

why does'nt anyone realize that maybe,just maybe the pres. of the u.s. has access to a little more info. than all of us and the "u.n."
(who was on sadam's payroll by the way)and we may never know all of the circumstances involved nor do we need to. I know war is'nt a 1st choice anytime but sometimes it is neccesary.

[FredScuttle]

21. Say hi to Rim Job on your return

Oy, the RW talking points are breathtaking.

[silverlib]

24. Whoops -GONE!

That didn't last long.

[Joanne98]

31. They're coming out of the woodwork lately

[Occulus]

34. cornered animals and all that

[koopie57]

32. holy fuckin stupidity

bush has access to information, but unfortunately it is phoney info from people who want him to invade, kill, be stupid about. Stumpmunky.... what a stupid name and why has no one tombstoned this morAn? If no one else has, I won't neither, but he sure is one stupid sombith. Stumpmonkey? please tell me about your life? about your friends *LOL*....like you have any. Please?????? please tell me all about what a dumbfuck you are....

[WLKjr]

35. He may have access to more info

but wait, he never reads any of it. Can't recall any of it, or never heard of it. Hell, he is oblivious to his duties as President of the United States! And you say we don't need to know, fine you can take that stand, BUT I REFUSE TO DAMMIT. It is my home, my country, my money that is used to do what they please and I want to know and feel I have a say so on what goes on and what doesn't. That's what sets a liberal apart from a neocon. Liberals question and follow informed, necons follow blindly and never question ANYTHING.

[Cocoa]

17. where's the moral clarity?

why all the legalistic crap, why can't he give a straight answer?

[stumpmunky]

18. !

hell he is a ploitician!!

[Cocoa]

20. but not just any politician

Bush is the Worst President Ever.

[WLKjr]

36. it's Politician

Your right about that. I will give you credit on that one.

Politicians Lie

Statesmen are much better and are true patriots

[daleo]

19. More careful parsing of language

You can tell more about the Bush administration from what they carefully don't say than what they actually do say. Thus, he is saying that torture of foreigners outside of the U.S. is not considered against U.S. law, by some interpretation of U.S. law he is leaning on, and yes they did torture people in Iraq, Cuba, etc.

He feels that "ought to" comfort an American audience - i.e. at this time they don't plan to torture Americans on U.S. soil.

The latest Harper's article on Leo Strauss and the Bush administration is instructive for uncovering their logic.

[iam]

22. The argument is simple

Anyone or any country has the right to protect him/itself from attack even with torture. Hell the US vaporized 150,000 civilians in six seconds with nuclear weapons to end WWII. The difference here is that WE INVADED IRAQ. We were/are the aggressors. It is nonsense to say we had to torture Iraqis to prevent attacks on our troops. Our troops INVADED IRAQ. The only justification of torture in Iraq would be by the Iraqis defending themselves against dumbyas invasion.

[Miss Authoritiva]

29. You're absolutely correct, but that's not how the Bush people

view it. According to them, we are always on the defensive against aggressors, our actions are always defensive acts, our preemptive and preventive military actions are always acts of self-defense. And, of course, legalities change when you claim self-defense.

This is nothing new. Our government has taken that stance since WWII. Just think Korea, Vietnam, Latin America, Central America, and even poor little Grenada -- all "intractable aggressors" posing serious and imminent threats against the world's superpower.

The point is that, historically, culturally, and politically, America is incapable of viewing itself as an aggressor.

[TankLV]

23. Figures - I am sooooo shocked - NOT!

nt

[Geo55]

25. Ahhh....no

"That ought to comfort you"

Your dumb ass roastin' in the sun might.

[powergirl]

26. The question the reporters need to ask: Does the U.S. law

(as interpreted by the Justice Department memo) permit you, the president to authorize the torture of prisoners?

I wish those stupid ass reporters would get it together. I hope someone asks him this at the debate.

[Tight_rope]

28. The asshole didn't want to have to tell the truth... It scares him! n/t

[abracadabra]

30. this is not "WARTIME"- congress never declared war

(edited for spelling)
War on Drugs
War on terra
War on War
War on something does not make it 'wartime".
Bush can't authorize shit.

No chickenshit AWOL coke head alchoholic sonovabitch with an I.Q of 92 who never worked a day in his life is gonna decide the policy of our country--
(that's right OUR country-not the Bush crime family's or the neo con men's country--It's OUR country.)

Shrub can't even think straight--he has no ability to speak in public --can't say more than 4 or 5 words without a 6 second pause to hear his next words in his earphone.
His judgment is impaired by his years of drug and alchohol abuse.
...and this idiot's gonna allow or disallow torture as long as they later state for the record that they told everyone to "adhere to the law"??
--I don't think so--


.

[radfringe]

33. again with the Sgt. Shultz act....

<i><b>Bush's comments follow disclosure of Justice Department memos to the White House advising the president that he could suspend international treaties prohibiting torture. The Justice Department also told the White House that U.S. laws against torture do not apply to the war on terror.

Bush said he doesn't recall seeing any of the Justice Department advice</b></i>

this looks like a job for the DU! compile a list of what bush inc. didn't know, what they "forgot", what they weren't aware of.....

[Disturbed]

37. Our Representatives in Congress Swore an oath.

It is their job to follow the War Crimes situation to where ever that leads.

The Pres. stated that Rumsfailed is an excellent Sec. of Defense. Doucuments prove that Rumsfailed approved of torture. The Pres. knew or should know what his Sec. of Defense is approving. If not the Pres. is in derelection of his job. If so, the Pres. sanctioned Torture. I believe this logic is correct. Do you agree?

[Art_from_Ark]

38. Just like his father and dumbass Reagan:

"Was there illegal stuff going on under my nose? Well, golllllllll-eee! I didn't know nuthin' about it-- I was out of the loop!"

[Tripmann]

40. Coke is it

"Was there illegal stuff going on under my nose?"

Yes George, there was also illegal stuff going UP your nose at one stage too. Drop me a line and I can get rid of your nose problems for once and for all by removing it along with other things.

Deepest regards

Tripmann

[molly]

41. Sound like Reagan?

"Bush said he doesn't recall seeing any of the Justice Department advice."

Based on asscrack's demeanor, I would say GUILTY.