Sadr tells militia to fight throughout Iraq-aide

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAT039906.htm

NAJAF, Iraq, May 10 (Reuters) - Iraqi radical Shi'ite Muslim leader Moqtada Sadr has ordered his militia to spread their battle against U.S. troops across Iraq, a senior aide said on Monday.

"We have now entered a second phase of resistance and our patience is over with the occupation forces," Qais al-Khazali, Sadr's main lieutenant in Najaf, the holiest town in Iraq for the country's Shi'ite majority, told Reuters.

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[NMDemDist2]

1. the prison scandal has sure taken the "war'

off the front pages it seems.

I see reports of lots of Iraqi dead but no US casualties? Is that correct?

[0007]

2. I think these exaggerated reports are nothing but that

...made only to appear that the U.S. is not losing troops and we're making progress by killing 20 or 40 radicals that hate America and Americans for the freedom we have.

[JoFerret]

35. Welcome to Najaf

[NNN0LHI]

3. 31 US soldiers have died this month so far

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

[NMDemDist2]

4. so we are on track for another 100+ KIA this month

but pics are more "newsworthy" ??!!??

[maddezmom]

5. and it's only the 10th...

:(

[reprobate]

8. Once again we see the fake body counts. Quagmire anyone?

[wubbathompson]

6. Sadr is a punk

And most of the rest of the clerics want him marginalized. I wishe he would just go away so no more lives are lost. I wish we would leave too, but we aren't so he needs to go.

[el_gato]

7. Why are we not leaving?

1. A permanent base of operations for mid-east domination
2. The resources
3. The risk of losing "credibility" i.e. the demostrative threat to the rest of the world that says either bow down to the western establishment or be invaded and occupied and eliminated.

The U.S. should leave nonetheless.

[NNN0LHI]

9. Excuse me

The USA illegally invaded Sadr's country with bombs, cruise missiles, and tanks, raped, murdered, and tortured his fellow Iraqi men, women, and children, stole their oil, and all this was done under the guise of "liberating the Iraqis", and he is the punk? Something doesn't seem right here.

Don

[joshcryer]

13. It was not "Sadr country" any more than any other Iraqi.

And his opinion is no more valid, likewise. Now, shall we go among all Iraqi's and ask them whether or not it's wise of Sadr to "fight back" given the utter futility of the situation? Hint, he's not fighting back to get rid of the occupation, he's just trying to get some token power. Or hold on to the little power he has left. Sad.

[NNN0LHI]

15. What are you talking about? I never said he owned the country

I say America is my country, but that does not insinuate that I own it using what I consider common vernacular. As for Sadr, I can't figure out why he is even still sucking air and I have not said that I hold any admiration for him either. He will be killed but that will do nothing to help the situation in Iraq. And let me tell you something about the utter futility of this situation. The Iraqis can't beat America. But they don't need to beat America either. They just need to outlast America. History is not on the side of America in these types of wars.

Don

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ze_dscherman]

10. But he's pretty effective

Sadr City houses a third of Baghdad's people and now should effectively be out of limits for the U.S. army and probably Iraqi police as well. Same happened in Najaf and several other places. The Mehdi army has involved the British in severe fighting even in Basra.

The moderate clerics won't get rid of the US occupiers, because the US will not give up oil and bases. So Sadr will become a hero to many Iraqis, who will tolerate the US less and less.

Of course, other clerics would like to get rid of Sadr, but if the US makes a martyr of him, his admiration will only grow.

[shadu]

18. The moderate clerics know the value of Sadr

I am sure they tacitly approve of his actions.
Also, while Sadr is obviously increasing his power
thru his actions I have no doubt he is a true patriot
who loves his people.
Bush could learn a lot from this man.

[Just Me]

20. Yours seems a tenable take on Sadr's role in this clusterf*ck.

He is playing the role of the warrior for his people and his country.

I believe it is important to remember that this man had no involvement with 9/11, was no threat to the American people, and his father was assasinated by Saddam for taking a stand against Saddam.

His present resistance is against invaders/occupiers. He is fighting for his country.

[daleo]

27. Excellent reminders

It is easy for people to get caught up in manufactured enmities.

[Just Me]

29. Concise description, "manufactured enmities"!!! *eom*

[paulk]

22. About a month ago I would have agreed with the tacit approval,

but I no longer think that's the case. The moderate Shi'ite leadership has always worked to exclude Sadr and his uprising is as much a bid for power in a future Iraq as it is against the occupation.

I'm sure at this point Sistani, et al, are quite pleased by the reduction of Sadr's military strength. This is why American troops have been allowed to advance into Karbala as far as they have.

As for patriots, the words of Samuel Johnson come to mind - "Patiotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

[Just Me]

23. I don't doubt that "power" or "influence" has a role,...

,...but, what makes you certain that Sistani and other clerics aren't celebrating that this younger rascal is doing?

I don't know the answer.

[paulk]

26. There is definately a schism between Sistani and Sadr

At the root of which lies two differing concepts on the role of religion in government. Sistani and the majority of Shi'ite clerics believe that good (Muslim)citizens create good (Muslim)society - kind of a "bottom up"
approach. Sadr, like the Ayatollah Khomieni in Iran, believes that good government creates good citizens, ie, good Muslims - a top down approach. In other words - theocracy.

Here is a good link on the subject:

http://213.92.16.98/ESW_articolo/0,2393,42056,00.html

another invaluable resource for trying to understand what's going on over there:

http://www.juancole.com/2004_05_01_juancole_archive.html

Sistani and the moderates know that if "democracy" really does come to Iraq, they will have the upper hand. They see Sadr as a threat because of his populist appeal, especially to younger Iraqis.

I wonder if there isn't a "class" issue at work here also. Sadr's base of power is Sadr City, a Bahgdad slum. Most of his followers are young, uneducated, and poor. An underclass - an armed underclass. No ruling party, from Hussien to Bremer to Sistani - has got to like that idea.

[Dhalgren]

24. Can you give us a couple of examples

of how Sadr is a scoundrel? Or any points whereby you see evidence that Sadr is not primarily concerned with the ouster of the US from his country? Thanks in advance.

[paulk]

30. The quote had more to do with the idea that "patriotism"

is automatically some kind of positive qualifier.

Actually, I don't think Sadr is a patriot, I think he's a nationalist.
I also don't think his primary objective is the ouster of the Americans. He just wants a seat at the table - and if it had been offered,
he'd be crawling around on kneepads just like the rest of the IGC.

I'm sure Sadr wants what he thinks is best for his people, whether they want it or not. An Iranian style theocracy, the reduction of women to second class citizens, Shia law...

[Dhalgren]

31. A "nationalist" during an occupation is the same thing

as a "patriot". I don't see how you can say these things about Sadr, not knowing him or having any connection to his supporters, but hey, you have a right to your opinion - I guess that makes you an American.

[daleo]

28. When Johnson said that he was referring to phony patriotism

Whatever else Sadr is, he is not a phony, or he wouldn't be challenging the might of the U.S. military. You or I may not agree with his ends (or at least all of them), but that doesn't mean he is not a patriot to his country.

[Dhalgren]

11. We are in his country and he needs to go?!!

What kind of twisted, imperialistic logic is that?! We invade his country and because he doesn't like it, he should leave? My gods! That is ridiculous - he is (regardless of his politics) at this point an Iraqi patriot and the people view him as such. No, I don't think he will leave the country - he might be martyred, but he won't leave.

[shadu]

17. Sadr is a better man than Bush

More importantly, the work he is doing is essential
in stopping the monstrous US occupation.
Sadr is totally in the right on this one.

[Dhalgren]

19. I agree with you 100%

When a person's country is at stake, being invaded by an evil empire, it does no good to second guess a patriot's motives; especially if those second guesses are coming from citizens of the evil empire!

[daleo]

25. If wishes were horses

In theory we can have some effect on whether U.S. forces stay in Iraq, so we should direct our energies that way. Sadr won't go, unless it is by killing him, and a fresh spokesman will come to the fore. It is the American military which needs to go, and especially the punks Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, ...

[David__77]

12. US has elevated the Sadrist movement.

Of course the people of Iraq respect Sadr and his movement. They have helped control crime, distribute aid and maintain some order. They are patriotic and don't collaborate with the occupation. Most people in any given country tend not to like occupation and want independence. The US actions in suffocating Iraq only serves to drive the people to Sadr and away from "moderates."

[bemildred]

14. Duh. Al Sadr should pay us for the help.

That dipshit Bremer has the fecal touch, everything he
touches turns to shit.

[paulk]

21. This could be more of a bid for power directed at the more moderate

Shi'ite factions. The Shi'ite religious hierarchy seems to have drawn up ranks against him - to the point where he has no choice but to go directly to the people. The specific reference to the "red line" in Najef and Karbala can't be seen as anything other than a challenge to the likes of Sistani and Hakim's Badr Brigade.

The next few weeks will be very telling for Sadr's movement. It seems
certain he will be forced out of Karbala and, as long as the Americans don't do anything stupid, he could also lose his influence in Najef. It will be interesting to see if he can stir up trouble in Basra and other southern cities. If he can't he will be forced back to his power base in Sadr City, to once again become the minor player he started as.

[Dhalgren]

32. Wasn't it Sistani who drew the "red line"?

And if you think that the "moderate" Shi'ites are going to side with the occupiers against Sadr, I think you are wrong. Why the vitriol against Sadr? Is it a "class" thing? Because Sadr's group is made up of "uneducated", "slum" dwellers, then Sadr must be disreputable? I haven't heard a single verified statement as to Sadr's motives or his standing within Shi'a to uphold any of your views.

[paulk]

34. The American's have already crossed the red line

and Sistani and the moderates have failed to issue their promised fatwa. That can only mean it was done with their approval. That Sadr's aide specifically cites the "red line" is a jab at Sistani.

Moqtada Al-Sadr doesn't have the religious authority to issue his own fatwa, therefore he must take his insurgancy directly to the people - and hope that they respond. Whether they do or not remains to be seen.

You have twisted my "class" statement from an earlier post to imply motivations on my part that do not exist.

There is plenty of information available for discerning Sadr's motives and/or attempting to unravel the complexity of Shi'ite politics. The links I provided upthread are just some examples.

[dArKeR]

33. Iraqi cleric Sadr vows to widen the war

By Suleiman al-Khalidi

Najaf - Iraqi Shi'a cleric Moqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mehdi Army on Monday to launch a broad new offensive against United States-led occupying forces following an American crackdown on his strongholds in Baghdad and across the south.

The US military claimed new successes in campaigns against Sadr's forces and minority Sunni Muslim insurgents.

But US President George Bush's political project in Iraq took another blow when the Red Cross revealed that it told Washington US soldiers were systematically abusing Iraqi detainees months before US officials admitted an isolated problem in one jail.

http://iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1084210381737B262&set_id=1