Across country, GOP pushes photo ID at the polls

[louis-t]

Source: AP

RALEIGH, N.C. – Empowered by last year's elections, Republican leaders in about half the states are pushing to require voters to show photo ID at the polls despite little evidence of fraud and already-substantial punishments for those who vote illegally.

"I can't figure out who it would disenfranchise," Hargett said. "The only people I can think it disenfranchises is those people who might be voting illegally."

Republican Secretary of State Brian Kemp said he's not aware of anyone caught committing fraud because of the law but argued that it has helped make elections more secure.

In Georgia, which has had a strict voter ID law on the books for years, Republican Secretary of State Brian Kemp said he's not aware of anyone caught committing fraud. He argues that the rules help prevent people who try to file improper votes from having them counted.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110325/ap_on_re_us/us_voter_id

---

"Not aware of anyone caught committing fraud." That's why it's s-o-o-o-o-o-o urgent they pass these laws.

[CTyankee]

We have to show a picture ID at the polls here in CT.

And we're a blue state. I never thought of it as a republican idea. We've had to do this as long as I can remember and I've been in CT since 1985...

[defendandprotect]

75. It's a costly solution to a non-problem -- look at your driver's license ...

usually a year or so after pic is taken, it no longer looks like you --

next it will be finger prints -- always ideas pushed by the right wing to LIMIT

voting.

Even if these photo ID's were free, many voters will not want to bother getting them.

Make them available at local libraries and polling stations if they're so necessary.

Notice that most right wing ideas involve a loss of a freedom -- but carrying the

underlying message of sacrifice it for more safety!!

[Gormy Cuss]

79. I believe CT requires ID, but not photo ID.

Unless it's changed recently CT is one of the states that requires that voters show documents that list name and address to prove that the person is voting in the right place and if you don't show a photo ID you are required to sign an affidavit attesting that you are the person listed on the voter roll in order to validate that you have the right to vote in that place. It's NOT designed to prove that you have a right to vote. That is established as part of the voter registration process.

IOW, you can bring the electric bill to your polling place and swear that you're the CTyankee registered to vote at 1313 DU Lane and that is sufficient.

This is the procedure used in other nearby states only when there is reason to doubt the voter -- in MA failure to respond to the state census would trigger an ID request at the polls, for example. Most voters however simply declare their names and addresses.

Requiring ID (especially photo ID) is a conservative idea because it places a burden on voters to invest time and money in acquiring sufficient ID to meet the requirement, and to most Democrats this is too reminiscent of the old poll taxes. Democrats tend to support initiatives like motor-voter registration and permanent by mail voting because these encourage rather than discourage participation.

[Lefta Dissenter]

1. WI State Senate

probably voting on Voter ID Bill on April 5, our ELECTION DAY! :banghead:

[doc03]

2. I see nothing wrong with showing your ID to vote I don't want

people voting if they aren't supposed to.

[damntexdem]

3. And what about those who are "supposed to" but don't have photo IDs?

Especially with laws like the one in WI that limit the IDs to a small number of options -- e.g., excluding state-university-issued student IDs?

[doc03]

4. Get one n/t

[Frisbee]

6. Then they should be made readily available and FREE...

otherwise it seems to be a form of poll tax to me. BTW, I am actually against them, but IF they are going to be forced upon us, those seem to be at the very least reasonable expectations for them.

[SkyDaddy7]

8. In Georgia you can get a FREE Voter ID Card. nt.

I understand exactly what you are saying...I had mixed feelings about it but there really is no excuse if it is free. I know there are groups that help get the eldery & disabled free voter ID cards in advance of elections.

[roseBudd]

30. The poor have absolutely no incentive to vote anyways, as the gov't has zero interest in their

issues

Why the hell do you think ACORN was formed?

And now we are telling them they have to go get something, that they don't even have a car they can hop in to go there, just so they can vote

For what? Seriously

[SharonAnn]

61. Sometimes "free" means you have to drive 50 miles or more. With no car or driver's license,

that's a bit of a problem for most people.

The local election office should be able to issue a Voter's ID with picture. Otherwise, the law is discriminating (which most of them are intended to do) against people of a certain age, class, or income level.

[freshwest]

21. Good idea... That and a national holiday like the civilized countries that believe in voting rights.

[skyounkin]

29. No.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. It's not as easy as you think

It's also expensive.

[doc03]

10. How do you know the Koch brothers aren't paying

for fraudulent votes, it works either way.

[timo]

17. ???? seriously???

then they need to get their act together and get one, this includes people with no current id, for lame excuses like I cant renew ny drivers lic because of unpaid tickets warrants etc....grow the hell up and take care of business!!!! its called being a responsible citizen!!!

[Qutzupalotl]

28. What about the very poor?

They should be able to vote whether or not they need an ID for other purposes.

[timo]

40. the very poor

are usually on some type of government assistance and they had to have valid ID for that, the very very poor usually live in section 8 housing, and they have to have valid id for that, the homeless are not residents and that opens up a whole different can of worms!! when a cop stops you you have to show some sort of valid ID, its all a part of being a good citizen!!

[Qutzupalotl]

62. and their family members?

Would all eligible voters in that household have an ID as well?

If the IDs are free, fine. If not, they amount to a poll tax.

[Gormy Cuss]

80. Having an ID to vote has nothing to do with growing up.

However, telling other people that you have no problem with something and neither should they reveals a distinct lack of maturity.

[lbrtbell]

18. Most students have driver's licenses, anyway

And people who can't drive can get state ID's.

I don't know how anybody these days doesn't already have a photo ID. You need it for virtually any business you conduct. Poor people need photo ID to get benefits from the government. Everybody needs it to do banking.

Heck, I'm even forced to show photo ID every time I go to a doctor...and I've lived in several states, so it's not just a one-off incident.

There is simply no way to get by in society nowadays without having photo ID. The GOP is doing so many other heinous things, that expecting people to show what they should have already should be the least of our concerns.

[SharonAnn]

69. "Most" is not "all eligible voters". You have to think about it to realize the issue.

If you don't drive (poor, elderly, live in major metropolitan area with mass transportation) you might not have a driver's license.

To get another form of ID, you have to make a special trip to one of the places that issue one. That could be 50 miles from where you live. You have to get all your documentation ahead of time or you'll have to make that trip more than once. If you're poor and/or don't drive, that can be an insurmountable obstacle. If you have to pay for transportation and can't afford it, that shouldn't prevent you from voting in your precinct.

The only way I can see that it might be "fair" would be if Election offices and their designated registration locations, the places where voters can register to vote, were the ones who issued the picture ID. Oh, and then they couldn't require a new one every election cycle.

[RebelOne]

23. If you drive a car, then you probably have a photo ID. n/t

[KamaAina]

26. And if you don't drive a car, you're probably poor, minority, and/or disabled.

i.e. the kind of person the repukes don't want voting, because their grip on powere depends on it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Or elderly

[LanternWaste]

7. Where precisely is this a consistent or systemic problem?

Where precisely is this a consistent or systemic problem?

Or is this simply a solution to a problem that does not exist?

[doc03]

9. How many fraudulent votes did people like the Koch brothers

send to the polls? It could work in our favor too.

[LanternWaste]

11. Valid source to cite on this claim?

Valid source to cite on this claim?

So again,where precisely is voter fraud a consistent and systemic problem? Or is this merely a proposed solution to a problem that simply does not exist on any scale large enough to warrant honest consideration? (I'm thinking the latter...)

[AllTooEasy]

25. That's like saying trees don't fall in abandoned forrests because nobody hears them fall.

What about sex trafficking, rapes, swep shops??? You know they are happening, but you also know that detection and reporting are difficult.

[LanternWaste]

50. Then I am to understand you also have zero knowledge

Then I am to understand you also have zero knowledge of of a consistent or systemic abuse of the system through voter fraud?

"You know they are happening..." I think that would be more validly stated as "You believe they are happening, unlike the trees falling in the forest of which I have clear and verifiable evidence..."

[defendandprotect]

78. No where, except in rw propaganda -- but notice nothing from Dems on GOP voting computers!!!

but the GOP convinces the public that the non-problem of ineligible voters voting

exists!!

Wow -- rw propaganda works as well as ever!!!

Have you noticed the "non-whine" of the Democratic Party re GOP computer voting -- ?

Who should be more concerned about that than the Dem Party?

We're all concerned -- for at least 12 years now!! -- but the Democratic Party isn't????




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know -- pass it along!

:)

[defendandprotect]

74. Your signature is your ID -- that was always the way it was done ... PLUS ...

PO and your town track your current address.

[defendandprotect]

76. The problem doesn't exist -- but what it does do is limit the number of eligible voters ...

consider whether that's what you want?

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Such a law will lay to rest charges of Democratic cheating.

It is a standard whine among them that we cheat by getting people to vote multiple times. Pass this law and that whine stops.

Now if we can just get paper ballots too. Texas uses a good system. Paper ballot, marked with dark pen, counted by machine but available for recount if needed.

[msongs]

14. boy that is totally wrong! Maybe Obama falls for it but don't you fall for it too....

pass this law and that whine stops? NEW whines will begin and the goal posts will move again and we will chase them until hell freezes over.

[shanti]

41. yes

that is usually what happens. it's like the repukes are operating in an echo chamber! :(

[lbrtbell]

20. Yes, paper ballots should be our top voting priority. n/t

[Unvanguard]

55. No, they will just find another excuse to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

In New Hampshire, for instance, they are going after college students.

[Betty]

64. next step. poll taxes

oh, that's right, they hate taxes. well, poll fees, then.

[defendandprotect]

77. Let's see ... we're voting on GOP-controlled computers now for 40 years --

but the GOP convinces the public that the non-problem of ineligible voters voting

exists!!

Wow -- rw propaganda works as well as ever!!!

Have you noticed the "non-whine" of the Democratic Party re GOP computer voting -- ?

Who should be more concerned about that than the Dem Party?

We're all concerned -- for at least 12 years now!! -- but the Democratic Party isn't????




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know -- pass it along!

:)

[William769]

12. In response to your comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/new-coulter-voter-fraud-i_b_156972.html

Will she still get away with it?

[M_A]

13. absentee ballots?

I always vote absentee, wonder how this will affect people like me?

[L. Coyote]

15. I remember democracy, but hey, I'm really old.

[lbrtbell]

16. This should keep Ann Coulter from voting

Seriously, if people really were slapped with "already-substantial punishments" for voting illegally, Coulter would be behind bars right now.

[louslobbs]

24. She doesn't believe in voter registration laws, but she believes in doses of radiation being good

for us. If someone would just invent press on warts, I'd send her a case. What a despicable thing she is.
Lou

[on point]

19. There is some election fraud, but it is perpetrated by the repukes

However, despite the hysteria of the right I don't think it is in people voting who are not supposed to be voting , double voting or the like.

I think the right nut cases thinks there is a problem for two big reasons:
1. Because the wing nuts keep losing elections when they KNOW they are the majority. In other words, reality keeps telling them they are NOT the majority. They can't accept that, so there must be fraud.
2. The wing nuts engage in all sorts of fraud themselves, such as kicking people off voting rolls, calling up people to tell them they can't vote, sending out late absentee ballots to people who will vote dem, making the ballots misleading, not providing enough polling places or machines, fixing the computer voting machines etc. I am sure I left off quite a few things they have done in recent years. Because they do these things they PROJECT this onto the opposition. This is a classic symptom of what they are about. They are so dis-honest and underhanded, they think everyone else is and so accuse them of it.

This last point is really a problem in terms of dealing with these people. They are fundamentally crooked, corrupt predators, while the liberal side tries to be about ideals and honesty. It is really time they get painted consistently for the crooks they are.

That said, I do not see a problem with presenting a state issued voter id, and it would ensure a fair election. I just have to give my address and sing in on election day. This is not very secure given that the info is public. What would happen if I came to vote and someone had already signed in as me? I think the idea people don't have picture id's is from an ancient era, or can be easily and cheaply rectified.

Of course this wouldn't address problems with absentee ballots, which in my state is only about a signature for verification and I am sure they don't do a compare against the voter cards for each and every one.

[louslobbs]

22. Just another manipulative game the Pubes play trying to disenfranchise a certain segment of the

population from voting who generally vote Democratic. The Pubes will try almost anything to win other than telling the truth and playing by the rules. They are scamming, scum. They want power and money to control and rule the majority of us. I suppose they'll block Democratic phone banks again, use the practice of caging, redistricting, paperless ballots and any other scam they can come up with to prevent them from losing their grip on power. I've never had to show my ID to vote, I give my name and address, they find it in the voting ledger and I sign that line, and vote for sanity over insanity. I live in CA so we have a paper ballot system, otherwise, if there is a problem, how can you verify the vote? That's right Thugs don't want us to be able to verify their electronic ballot machines, made by? Corporations. Who are indebted to which party for doing their bidding? Republicons. And can these machines be hacked? yes, that's the beauty in them for the thugs that love them, without the paper trail, they can do almost anything........... Republicons are a horrible cancer to Democracy.
Lou

[russspeakeasy]

27. And only pictures taken at Walmart are acceptable.

You must also have your receipt.

[fascisthunter]

31. the Anti-Tax Party wants to create a Poll Tax for Likely Democratic Voters

...one party rule, fascists.

[sofa king]

32. 'Cause you can't make 'em poor and keep 'em there if they vote.

[upstatecajun]

33. Across country, GOP pushes photo ID at the polls

Source: AP/Yahoo News

By MIKE BAKER, Associated Press Mike Baker, Associated Press – 2 hrs 22 mins ago
RALEIGH, N.C. – Empowered by last year's elections, Republican leaders in about half the states are pushing to require voters to show photo ID at the polls despite little evidence of fraud and already-substantial punishments for those who vote illegally.

Democrats claim the moves will disenfranchise poor and minority voters — many of whom traditionally vote for their candidates. The measures will also increase spending and oversight in some states even as Republicans are focused on cutting budgets and decreasing regulations.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110325/ap_on_re_us/us_voter_id

[opihimoimoi]

34. They are so desperate they risk looking petty suggesting this shit?? I guess so

[Lint Head]

35. All right wing politicians should be drug tested.

[applegrove]

36. Can't someone start a class action suit about disenfranchising voters?

[ingac70]

37. Push for free photo ID.

Make sure everybody gets one.

[Nossida]

42. Bravo Losers

Hey GOP,

How about doing what most Americans really care about,
and create all those wonderful 'Jobs' you promised?

You've covered the God thing, over and over and over,
and now you push Proper 'Papers' so you can do your
normal Voter Suppression Scam you are so famous for.
Anything to keep those pesky voters from voting. Of
course, once again, you want to legalize your subversive
activities. We've grown to expect it of you.

come on GOP, let's see those Jobs you promised.

[Marthe48]

38. We've had to show our drivers' licenses the last several yrs in OH

I don't like it, it doesn't feel American. I'll keep voting, no matter how hard the rearends make it

[rexcat]

48. You can also show a utility bill...

or letter from a governmental agency with your name and current address on it. The polling judges can also look at your scanned signature in the voting book that you sign vs. your signature at the time of voting but we are not encouraged to do it since we are not "trained" as handwriting experts but if a polling judge is suspicious that is one more piece of the puzzle to look at. If you don't have "acceptable" ID you can vote provisionally and it will be counted as long as you put your last four digits of your SS# or drivers license number on the provisional ballot envelope. Once the number is verified the ballot is separated from the ballot envelope and the vote is counted. The reason for the separation of the ballot envelope and the ballot is to ensure that your vote can't be identified as yours (i.e., the secret ballot thing).

What the republicans want to do is have an "acceptable" photo ID so they can suppress the vote. The law that is being proposed will make it harder for the poor and students to vote. There is no reason to make it harder in Ohio considering voter fraud is so rare. Of more concern is election fraud as what happened in the 2004 election. There are two republicans from Cuyahoga County Board of Elections doing jail time for election fraud. I know there are some affidavits filed related to election fraud in Claremont County against some republicans but nothing has come of it to date and considering who is in power in the state and that county nothing will be done.

[midnight]

39. This will cost more money for the tax payers creating a greater deficit.

Besides the only person I know causing voter fraud was Anne Coulter, and they caught her... It will not be safe until they charge her with the crime of voter fraud... Then maybe if that crime is serious enough to prosecute Anne then maybe we can talk.....

[quakerboy]

43. Sounds good to me

So, I figure its only fair that voters should have to have something to show they are who they say they are. Seeing as the vote takers have to verify the vote tally using the paper record that they are required to have...

Oh.. right. No paper trail. Interesting.

How about this... Voters have to show the same ID that donators have to show to give money to a political cause.

Is there any constitutional reason that we cannot make a law only allowing political donations from people qualified to vote in the contest they want to donate to a party of.

[Keith Bee]

44. How 'bout an IQ test to go along with it?

That'd eliminate 75% of the GOP right then and there.

[old mark]

45. K&R- Strange that most of the GOP states are all doing the same things at the same time...

sounds like a planned, coordinated effort.

mark

[highplainsdem]

57. It is. Coordinated by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Links:

Compilation topic about ALEC, which I started on the 8th and which is still getting new replies and links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x591230

The OP there starts with a link to another topic about ALEC's role in these disenfranchisement efforts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x590917

And see reply 102 in the compilation topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x591230#637377

and reply 116

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x591230#660759

for more info.

ALEC is getting more attention now since Professor William Cronon of the University of Wisconsin posted a blog about them on the 15th, the Wisconsin GOP responded two days later with an open-records demand for his emails, and that led to lots of news stories, and so much attention their website was down earlier today (it's back now). This is the link to Professor Cronon's blog:

http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/

[lynne]

46. I don't see any problem with this -

- as photo ID has become a part of our daily lives to do many things. At least it insures that those who vote take the matter seriously enough to get a photo ID. They possibly even do a bit of reading and research. Might make for more informed voters out there.

[fittosurvive]

47. And I have to show my passport when traveling abroad.

[rexcat]

49. And that has nothing to do with voting!

When traveling abroad you need to have proof of citizenship. You don't have to have a passport to vote in this country, at least not yet. Please see my post #48 for what is going on in Ohio.

[fittosurvive]

52. Re: "You don't have to have a passport to vote in this country"

That is true, but you do have to be a citizen.

It is irrational to oppose this requirement if you are an advocate of conducting free and fair elections.

[rexcat]

53. That is an absurd, obtuse argument....

The proof of citizenship in this country is a birth certificate or if you immigrated to this country and acquired citizenship whatever paperwork the State Department gives you when you are granted citizenship, not a passport.

From what you are saying should I imply that you want a national ID for all citizens. Personally I don't think that is a good idea. If you want to argue the need for a national ID then I will be glad to debate you on the merits, otherwise your argument is I stated above!

[fittosurvive]

54. We already have a national ID—it's you SSN.

Replacing paper SS cards with plastic photo cards is logical step towards modernization.

[rexcat]

63. More like facism.

[WatsonT]

70. You don't have to prove citizenship to vote?

That's odd.

I see nothing wrong with this as long as there is a free option available separate from a drivers test.

Most every european nation has these same laws and they've managed to scrape by somehow.

[windowpilot]

51. Push for weekend voting,

and get rid of BBV.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

72. Federal voting holiday ... unless you really don't *want* Democracy

But I have long suspected that many in power (political, corporate and religious; federal, state and local; Democratic or Republican) have no interest whatsoever in a fair, inclusive election by an informed citizenry.

Also, publicly-financed campaigns, instant runoff voting and paper-based backups (like Minnesota has, thankfully).

[StarsInHerHair]

56. anything to avoid creating jobs or help American Middle Class.....

nt

[hack89]

60. In Rhode Island it has bipartisan support

PROVIDENCE — It’s not every day that House Speaker Gordon D. Fox adds his name to a bill with Republican Joseph A. Trillo or even fellow Democrat Jon D. Brien.

But Fox and House Majority Whip J. Patrick O’Neill, along with Brien, Trillo and Republican Tea Party member Doreen Costa, have joined together to support a bill that would require voters to show photo identification at the polls.

The unlikely tandem of state lawmakers is sponsoring House bill H-5680 at the request of Secretary of State A. Ralph Mollis, who argues that the “belief that voter fraud exists undermines the public’s faith in the fairness of our elections.”

“Voting should be at least as secure as renting a car, getting a library card or any of the other tasks that routinely require an ID,” Mollis said.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/RI_voter_ID_27_03-27-11_J6N78NR_v10.14192d3.html

[JCMach1]

65. New Jim Crow Law- the address on the ID doesn't match voting place and you are not voting

Those most likely to move around alot and not change ID= the poor, the homeless, and the already disenfranchised.

So yeah, this IS a big deal! For democracy anyway.

[EFerrari]

81. The Justice Department should be all over this. nt

[SomeGuyInEagan]

66. Not required in Minnesota, plus we have same-day registration, high turnout and low fraud ...

... as evidenced by not one but two recounts recently (U.S. Senate race in 2008 and Minnesota Governor's race in 2010).

This is a poll tax, nothing more. The GOP is a step away from literacy tests and Jim Crow laws.

[and-justice-for-all]

67. Papers, papers please, PAPERS!! nt

there should be one method to voting which is the same across the country; this state does that and that state does this is utterly absurd.

[JCMach1]

68. And I can't believe there are DUers defending this law... :(

[Cognitive_Resonance]

71. I'm ok with this. nt

[EFerrari]

82. It's a poll tax, suppresses the vote of poor Americans

and is likely illegal in the venues covered by the Voting Rights Act.

But, we'd need a functioning Justice Department for that to matter.

[RedCloud]

73. Why not just punish those who reject your elephants and be done with it!