Is it just me, or does it seem like there is a lot of homophobia in the latino community?

[CLANG]

[Steerpike]

1. now

thats a racist comment...

[reggie the dog]

3. why is that racist?

homophobia exists across pretty much all racial groups but it would be interesting to see a study to see if there are indeed different levels of homophobia due to different manners of socialization across racial groups.

[Hugabear]

19. "homophobia exists across pretty much all racial groups" - so why point out the Latino factor?

You're absolutely right, homophobia exists across ALL racial groups just about. So why is it necessary to bring up the fact that these were Latinos as if that were a determining factor?

[reggie the dog]

22. to find out if certain groups of people are socialized differently

in an effort to learn how to best combat homofobia across cultural lines.

[defendandprotect]

26. They are often "socialized" as Christians/Catholics ... and homophbia is

certainly traceable to the Christian/RCC -- and Biblical teachings --

Until very recently, you could still hear Catholic priests preaching intolerance for

gays and lesbians from their pulpits -- don't know about at this very minute -- but

used to be!!

Don't think the Vatican has changed much in their teachings about homosexuality recently,

but not sure. This Pope has plans to move them to Evangelicalism -- Fundamentalism --

and that certainly is an area where homophoia is taught.

And the Vatican still does not acknowledge the full personhood of females as it acknowledges

the full personhood of males.

[Evolve_Already]

33. You are a rarity on DU.

Taking on the patriarchy will not bode well on this site, or most other sites as a matter of fact.

Only a small handful of brave women bloggers can dissect the harm that patriarchy causes. Thank you.

[reggie the dog]

35. I don't see why, patriarchy is a disservice to women yes

but most of us men don't want such a system. On a personal level such a system is bad for my daughter, my mom, my girlfriend, my sister, my aunts, my grandma. I want liberty and social justice for all and am perfectly able to see the bs idea that men need to be "straight" and virile (berlusconi syndrome)and i know it is just a bunch of bullshit. As a man i am not scared by gay people at all as i try not to assign gender roles and ideas like manliness and womanliness as i am convinced that most if not all gender roles are learned not inherent. Some men are brutes and the world has a lot of responsibility in socializing them but I understand that patriarchy is as bad as oligarchy as it involves a dichotomy in which there are 2 groups, one inferior and the other superior and that such an idea is incompatible with a free open society. I may be rare in that i value freedom to this point but most of my male friends are like this too, but i do have friends that did "girly" things as we were told as kids, i played soccer in the usa (whereas soccer is not for girls in france but i hope my daughter will challenge this machisme)and have male friend who plays the flute, another the violin, a bi friend, another who likes to crossdress now and again, and i guess a couple of "normal" buddies. I have really long hair too, so maybe we are more open minded due to the taunting we received? we are out there though, men who value freedom and justice more than any pre assigned by society gender roles.

[Evolve_Already]

36. Since you are a so-called...

good one, DO something about it! Collaborate with the other "good ones" and rise up. Women can not do it. 90 percent of all violent crimes are done by doods. And please, stop mansplaining to me. I have heard it all before ad nauseum.

[reggie the dog]

37. what do you want me to do?

i stand up for gay rights in the classroom when i teach, i discipline kids when they things like 'stop being such a fag' or 'stop acting like a girl'. what do you want me to do above and beyond that? my whole political world view is about social justice and equality but i dont have much power to change the patriarchial capitalist assholes that run everything.

[SargassoSea]

39. You're just a regular Prince Charming

aren't you Reggie?

I have a question for you: How would you react if your girlfriend decided that she was no longer interested in performing penis-centric "sex" with you? Or suppose she insisted you stop using pornography?

Both of these scenarios are patriarchy-busting in nature but my guess is that you'd be finding a new girlfriend asap instead of doing REAL pro-feminist work.

[One_Life_To_Give]

32. Google Prop H8 demographics

Macho Cultures have at least recently been un-supportive of the so called "Gay Agenda". Particularly with regards to Marriage Equality.
It's not always clear if it's the "Gay" or the perception of "Effeminate" that provokes the response.

[CLANG]

7. This latino doesn't think so...

http://www.puntogaylatino.com/content/quien-es-mas-macho-latino-men-machismo-and-homophobia

[Hugabear]

2. That's a pretty fucked up thing to say

Shame

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GillesDeleuze]

10. Not really.. cultural attitudes persist

Communities with conservative religious backgrounds are less likely to accept homosexuals, whether:

-white evangelical
-latin catholic
-black baptist

the 'race' only has anything to do with it because it is a cultural construct, which can help define traditions and norms.

i think its fucked up to react as though somebody said something racist when they are trying to understand the milieu in which this violence was born

[CLANG]

11. Thank you.

And I don't think there is a separate race called "Latino". It's more of a cultural, or maybe geographical description. Any of these fools calling me a racist are the worst kind of bigots.

[snooper2]

25. Marketing groups probably have a study somewhere...

[AlbertCat]

13. That's a pretty fucked up thing to say

No it's not.


In more "machismo" communities, there IS more homophobia. Latino and black and very religious communities have been more machismo for a long time (personally, I think it's really just the religion thing, and Latino and black communities often have a more religious influence that goes way back into their histories. You see it in over-religious white communities too). It often goes with the "new bride must be a virgin" meme. It's not a race thing.... it has to do with long held cultural norms. Pointing this out is not racist.


It may not be what YOU think or experience, but alas, fair minded people like you are not always the norm.

[WatsonT]

30. In fact it's been studied

and there is something to the conclusion that there is less tolerance in the latino community: http://hjb.sagepub.com/content/12/4/437.short

[WatsonT]

29. Not really

all cultures are not the same. Not every one has the same views of homosexuals.

[KamaAina]

5. Indeed there is

just like there is in the white community, the African American community, and so on. Your point?

[Zoeisright]

6. [phone]

Perfect answer.

[reggie the dog]

9. point is do some sub cultures

foster homophobia more than others, we do ethnic studies in the usa and it is true that latinos vote on the left more than whites, and blacks vote on the left more than latinos and whites so it is possible that levels of homophobia differ as well.

[CLANG]

12. It wasn't a "point" it was a question. So what's your point?

[WatsonT]

31. Those two groups you mention are race based

whereas latino, while tending towards certain characteristics, is not race based.

There are blond haired blue eyed latinos, and ones that are pure african in origin.

Latino is a culture.

White/black is not.

[BenzoDia]

8. There's homophobia all over the U.S., not just the latino community

The "casual" discrimination is all over the place.

[AlbertCat]

14. There's homophobia all over the U.S., not just the latino community

So.... who said homophobia was JUST in the Latino community?

No one.

The "casual" putting of words in other peoples' mouths is all over the place!

[CLANG]

15. Thanks, AlbertCat

The testiness of this forum sometimes leaves me a bit depressed. It's people like you that help me continue to take this abuse. The trolls must be out in greater numbers with the Wisconsin and Japan things going on.

[AlbertCat]

16. Alas!

The Teabaggers are not the only ones who have trouble discerning what is true from what they want to be true.... forgetting things.... everything!.... is complicated.

As Oscar Wilde said:

"The truth is rarely plain and never simple."

[BenzoDia]

18. You both are way overreacting to this.

You asked a question. I answered it.

Relax a little.

[CLANG]

23. You're probably right - but at least we're having fun doing it!

:toast:

[BenzoDia]

17. 2 points.

1) It's strange to assume that a comment about homophobia among latinos would not raise eyebrows, especially among the type of people who fight for equality.

2) I'm talking about casual discrimination among gays. Reread my post in that context.

[Hugabear]

20. Then why was the Latino community singled out?

Nice backpedaling

[GillesDeleuze]

21. i think because the story is about

latin young men.

[BenzoDia]

24. afaict, there's nothing in the story tying the suspects to the latino community

Outside of their names, what makes this a latino issue?

[GillesDeleuze]

28. its a homophobia issue

what would tie them to the 'community'

[reggie the dog]

38. the simple question that do certain groups socialize their youth

differently. look at the breakdown of the vote to end gay marriage in california by ethinc group and you notice a difference. in order to effectively combat homophobia we need to have different approaches which take into account the ways in which members of different ethnic groups are socialized.

[BenzoDia]

40. I get what you're saying. But what I'm saying is that there's nothing in the article that indicates

the accused are a part of or influenced by the latino community. W/o more information, being latino is not important to the story and should not have been brought up.

Ex. I'm black (partly). I grew up in an army family and spent time in Korea, Europe, and all over the States. Right now, I live in a suburb where most of my neighbors are white. Do my actions reflect anything about the black community? Whenever I do anything, should we also consider how my race played a role in it? Does the black guy down the street and myself necessarily have anything in common besides a black parent?

The answer is no.

[reggie the dog]

41. another thing in common

is that some people may deal with you and the neighbor differently than they would another white person like me when they see that you are black, that is to say that you can get some socialization from others racism.

[defendandprotect]

27. Vatican and Christians began teaching this the minute they hit ground here ....

There was open homosexuality among native peoples here --

with demonizing of the feminine, homosexuality was also demonized --

Introducing the Cross with the Sword -- !!

Illegitimate power changes culture quickly!!

[MadMaddie]

34. There is a lot in the black community too

A lot of it has to do with religion.