'Baby Joseph' taken to U.S. in last ditch effort to prolong life

[Recursion]

Source: Daily Mail (UK)

A Canadian baby who was just hours away from having his life support machine turned off, has been flown over the U.S. border against the wishes of doctors in a last ditch effort to prolong his life.

...

Pro-life group The Priests For Life said the move gave the stricken 13-month-old baby a chance at life that was being denied to him in Canada.

...

When the dispute arose the hospital took the family to the Consent and Capacity Board of Ontario, which arbitrates in cases where doctors and families cannot agree.

In their ruling they said Baby Joseph’s ‘best interests’ would involve the ‘removal of the endotracheal tube without replacement, a Do Not Resuscitate order and palliative care’.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366107/Right-life-baby-Joseph-Maraachli-taken-U-S-ditch-effort-prolong-life.html

---

Oy

[Zoeisright]

1. So, in other words, they want to prolong the child's suffering so

THEIR pain can be lessened for a few months. How selfish.

[Recursion]

9. As I said, "oy"

Sometimes all solutions suck.

[krispos42]

2. That poor little baby.

*sigh*

The medical board and the courts say the kid's in a vegetative state.

:-(

[amb123]

3. 2011's Terri Schiavo moment

for the Reich-Wing and their media robots to exploit.

[glinda]

5. Attack on Canadian values and Health Care....

[wordpix]

49. yes because we know affordable health care for all is nothing but child-and-Granny-killing

:sarcasm:

[Grins]

21. You hit on more than you may know on that comment!

Father Pavone is the Catholic priest that inserted himself into the Reich-wing Talibangelical stupidity that was Teri Schiavo way back when.

By the way, who's going to pay for this?

[okieinpain]

4. death panel. n/t?

[plumbob]

6. They've already given birth to and buried another child with the same

disorder, yet had another one, who now suffers the same disease?

What selfish selfish bastards, thinking their "own" DNA is so special that it's worth burying a couple of children over.

And all at the same time when MILLIONS of children need families.

What egotistical knotheads. The crime, of course, is that the CHILDREN pay with their lives, not the sperm donor and womb usage carrier. (Not going to call them parents - this is not what parents do.)

[wtmusic]

11. +1 nt

[valerief]

16. +1000

[wordpix]

50. +1

[JJW]

7. When is doubt side with the family

The child may die but, the family will have to try to survive and try to heal.

[border_town]

8. These "Pro Life People"

Should be outraged about what is going on in Arizona then? We have 1,000 of people in Arizona who are begging their state to help them stay alive. Anyone know anything about this group? This is just a pathetic attempt to politicize Canada's health insurance.

[madmom]

10. They are so "pro-life" that they threaten the previous care givers?

[Rozlee]

12. Hey, bring him down here to Tejas.

We've got compassionate conservatism that will save him. Good ol' Dubya passed a law as governor to allow hospitals to pull the plug on kids on life support despite the parents' wishes. Goodbye to babies like Sun Hudson and little Emilio Gonzalez, who (p)Rick Perry is is trying to pull the rug under because he's draining the state of Medicaid funds. I'll give you odds that our death panels beat yours any day of the week, so don't tell us it's better down here.

[SkyDaddy7]

13. Oh great...Very selfish parents are now going to bring...

the Republicans another brain dead human being to exploit! If what I have read these parents have already had infants die of the same thing that killed (Yes, this baby is already dead) this baby yet they keep having children? Disgusting what people will do!

[guitar man]

15. well it's about time

The repugs are in need of another brain dead person to exploit....I mean, they've gotten all the mileage out of Palin they're going to get out of her :hide:

[SkyDaddy7]

18. OH BOY! I am sure Palin will come out swinging on this! nt.

[demigoddess]

14. This is going to sound horrible, but

These parents are selfish, they make a big fuss about wanting this child but I bet that many other people are actually taking care of him. They are not making a long term commitment to care for him. I do not feel sorry for them, I have a child who is severely retarded and I have taken care of her, changing her diapers etc for almost 40 years except when I was in the hospital. When they are willing to do that I would then respect their choice but right now all I see is a couple who want the IDEA of a child, not a real child.

[LisaL]

30. Considering that their first child had the same condition, and they

took that child home to care for until the child died, what you are saying is really unfair.

[Green_Lantern]

39. that may not be true..I'm disabled and whenever I'm in the

Hospital I have to have family come in and help.

Nurses and nurse's aides never know how to do basic things for without spilling piss on me.

If your daughter is hospitalized(I hope not) stay with her.

[DCKit]

17. Despite the wrong-headedness of this, the pro-fetus crowd has really stepped in it this time.

They've gone beyond the womb, and there's no turning back.

[brendan120678]

19. Well...good.

I think parents should be able to make the medical decisions for dependents in their care.
Not some government board. Screw the "Consent and Capacity Board of Ontario."
The doctors can and should give their best advice and opinion, but ultimately it should be the parents' decision.

[AlbertCat]

20. but ultimately it should be the parents' decision.

Why? What do they know about the situation that Dr's don't? They're all emotional and distraught and stuff.... a perfect position to make the right choice!


Why is it assumed that parents are always good for their children? Case after case proves this is not ALWAYS wise.

[brendan120678]

22. Because they are the parents.

It is their decision.

Whether it is the "best" decision or not certainly is debatable.

[gaspee]

23. I hate the children are property argument.

Which is what saying the parents should decide is. Children are not property owned by their parents. They are human beings who deserve some dignity, no matter how young. The parents want to torture this baby and people seem to be OK with it because its their property (I'm using the word it on purpose.)

[Recursion]

25. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that his life is intrinsically worthless

Or that we can say the parents are wrong for wanting something other than palliative care.

[Green_Lantern]

44. no one is saying his life is worthless they are simply saying..

That performing surgery will have no purpose.

The parents aren't doctors who can objectively judge this.

[rebecca_herman]

45. What really bothers me

I am less bothered by the parents, who are probably distraught and desperate, and more bothered by the hypocrisy of the organizations helping them. The same people that want laws that would allow a doctor who believs abortion is always wrong to refuse to perform an abortion, even if both the woman and fetus would otherwise die - well, too bad for the woman and her family in that situation, according to them. Yet if a doctor feels it's morally wrong to prolong the suffering of a terminally ill baby with an operation that might make him even more uncomfortable, how DARE the doctor listen to his conscience!

[Green_Lantern]

46. that's probably because of two things...

1.) no matter how moderate they talk, die hard anti-reproductive rights people think abortion is murder and with that radical view they could care less about the medical aspect of it...

2.) it's not about suffering being a bad thing to them...pleasing their concept of God requires suffering and through suffering they find happiness

I don't blame the parents...they are just distraught and I have no idea what losing a baby does to you but I think this nutcase group is using their grief for an agenda.

[lapislzi]

38. Call it what you like. In all societies, parents are responsible for their minor children.

In the developed world, this includes the legal right to make decisions on the child's behalf. You calling children "property" does not change this fact. The state is not legally responsible for the child. The parents are.

Parents do some pretty dumbheaded things, self included, to, for, and for the supposed benefit of, their children. Legally they have the right to do that. If not the parents, who?

Society is not, and never will be organized to make parenting decisions by committee. Maybe in the days of extended families living in close quarters, decision-making could be spread out and cooler heads prevail. This isn't the case here, sadly.

I am sorry for everyone involved.

[JCMach1]

28. Exactly, because of that I would side with the parents here too...

[NashVegas]

36. It's For Their Selfish Family Members

This operation isn't going to save the kid's life. They want the operation so they can bring the kid closer to where their families are, so the baby can be surrounded by "family" when he dies.

In Ontario, he was with his family. If his parents' families wouldn't travel for something like this, it's safe to assume that being at his bedside when he takes his last breath isn't their priority, in the first place.

[DailyGrind]

37. Impossible position for the parents, I feel for them.

If he's definitely going to die however, why prolong the agony for a venue of your choosing?

[Green_Lantern]

40. it is the parent's decision but they can't force the hospital to...

Perform the tracheotomy. Doctors get to determine if surgery will benefit the baby.

[felix_numinous]

24. The issue is The Right to a Quality LIfe,

not a tortured, painful life--or after birth, neglected, abused, or brainwashed life. This issue is about having control over the quality of our existence, the way that we live, and the way that we die, and the control over us should not be handed over to these morons.

[Recursion]

26. Right but this isn't a Schiavo situation with two relatives in disagreement

This is a case where the relatives all want one thing and the doctors and state want another, and none of the answers is pretty or simple.

[felix_numinous]

32. True-

and I am not sure if this person had their Advanced Directives written out, would that have helped them? I recommend everyone eventually do that for peace of mind.

[elleng]

27. 'His parents

Moe Maraachli and Sana Nader want the hospital to perform a tracheotomy so they can take the child away because they believe he has a chance of breathing on his own.

They did the same thing with their baby daughter Zina eight years ago - she had a similar condition and died six months after the family took her home.'

[Green_Lantern]

41. you're right....tracheotomies are only done if the patient will

Be using a ventilator.

[Dulcinea]

29. No easy answer.

Maybe the hospital should just give him the tracheotomy the parents want. If the poor baby dies, and he most probably will, at least his parents got to try.

[Green_Lantern]

42. and when he dies during surgery they'd sue the doctors...

Liability issue.

[rug]

31. Their choice.

[Mudoria]

33. Their choice to make... I hope it's the right one when all is said and done

[LynneSin]

34. I hope those priests are ready to pay for Baby Joseph's USA healthcare

Because it's not free here in the USA

[Recursion]

35. It's not "free" in Canada, either

It's just not paid for at the point of service.

[wordpix]

51. absolutely---it's another fallacy spouted by the RW crowd

I lived in Canada in the '80's and recently traveled there and here's how it works:

Each province does its own thing to receive revenue to pay for HC and other social benefits, so the following varies from province to province but essentially:

There are high sales taxes on everything, from gas to rentals to restaurants, hotels, tickets, everything.

You pay HC premiums quarterly, depending on your income

That's basically it. I birthed my child there and had all prenatal care, infancy/baby care and a 3-day hospital stay, plus subsidized child care, and the system was excellent at the time ('80's). My child is now grown and lives in Canada and I thank my stars she was born there and has citizenship. She had college at a reasonable cost (partially subsidized) and has socialized health care and other benefits when needed (unemployment insurance, for example). Obviously the RW and corpos don't like the Canadian HC system because whatever they might provide in such a system in the US, their costs would be controlled.

[wordpix]

48. +1 ---Let's see this pro-life group that knows more than medical professionals pony up

and pay for all hospitalization and medical procedures.

At some point, "God's will" to take a baby, elderly person or anyone extremely ill, be done; however,
the same God-fearing anti-interventionist, anti-government pro-lifers are constantly intervening to prolong suffering, prevent abortions and otherwise stick their noses in others' private lives and private parts.

[Green_Lantern]

43. look at that priest in the story smiling like he just caught a fish..

It is a right to life photo op.

[Azathoth]

47. This is the kind of shit that turns people against "socialized" medicine

Are the parents doing the right thing? Probably not, but the hospital and the medical bureaucracy sure as hell don't have the moral authority to force them to let their child die.