Hero's unwelcome: Wounded Iraq vet jeered at Columbia

[Robb]

Source: NY Post

Columbia University students heckled a war hero during a town-hall meeting on whether ROTC should be allowed back on campus.

"Racist!" some students yelled at Anthony Maschek, a Columbia freshman and former Army staff sergeant awarded the Purple Heart after being shot 11 times in a firefight in northern Iraq in February 2008. Others hissed and booed the veteran.

(snip)

Several students laughed and jeered the Idaho native, a 10th Mountain Division infantryman who spent two years at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington recovering from grievous wounds.

(snip)

More than half of the students who spoke at the meeting -- the second of three hearings on the subject -- expressed opposition to ROTC's return. Many of the 200 students in the audience held anti-military placards with slogans such as, "1 in 3 female soldiers experiences sexual assault in the military."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hero_unwelcome_Zi3u1fwtRpo87vXAiAQfSN#ixzz1EVpozvxY

---

It appears from photographs the staff sergeant is on wheels, yet the Post speaks of him "bravely stepping to the mike" to speak. :shrug:

More importantly, Columbia is among the universities that rejected ROTC specifically citing opposition to DADT as the reason, and are facing pressure to return the program to campus once DADT is history.

I suspect Columbia will be a bit of a bellwether on this issue, which is apparently proving divisive for staff and students.

[bbinacan]

1. "Racist"?

Very tacky and very shameful.

[trumad]

2. Uhh----this is a Murdoch rag...believe it at your own risk.

[Robb]

4. Indeed. nt

[bluestateguy]

3. As soon as I see this story reported from somewhere other than the NYP or Fox I will be outraged

But we need to not take anything from Fox or the Post at face value. If on the other hand this story is confirmed by a legitimate news source, then yes, it is an outrage.

[gateley]

5. If I had a kid in Columbia who treated a veteran like that, I'd grab

him by the ear and make him go to a Veteran's hospital with me every day for a month. I don't care how old the "kid" is - that behavior is unforgivable.

[mysterysoup]

73. Why should veterans of imperialist wars get automatic respect?

They have volunteered, for money, to conduct the day to day business of US hegemony. That does not make them "heroes" in my book.

[nalnn]

86. Because

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Abraham Lincoln

While the whole of the text does not apply to the current imperial wars we are involved in, the soldiers themselves should be honored because they signed up to sacrifice when others would not or could not. Not all of them of course, just as not all of them volunteered for money, or to "conduct the day to day business of US hegemony". In fact, those who actually do the fighting or lose limbs like the guy in this story don't get paid squat compared to many of the civilian peers. As for the business of the U.S. If it is as you say the expansion of the hegemony, few soldiers I know had that in mind a M.E.P.S. or in basic or at any other point in their military careers and probably never will.

[ThomCat]

114. None of that has anything to do with allowing ROTC

on campus. Those students have every right to protest allowing ROTC on campus.

Saying that those people who protesting ROTC are insulting him personally is a blatant appeal to emotions to get you to hate the protesters.

[nalnn]

134. That

That wasn't what I was responding to. I wasn't talking about the ROTC. I was responding to someone asking why we should honor anyone who volunteers for the military. Yes, they have the right to protest and I completely support that. I draw the line at vitriol however. Call it a personal scruple.

[social_critic]

119. I'm not sure I follow the logic

I would not say the guy should be honored because he joined the service.

I think it's common sense and courtesy to let ANYBODY who wants to speak do so without heckling and cat calls. So this isn't really about this soldier in particular, it's more about the lack of civility on campus, which seems to drive these youngsters to silence people who have something to say they think is wrong.

What's wrong with free speech anyway? Or is free speech valid only for people who agree with you? Or for people who are missing their legs because they happened to get sent to Iraq?

[nalnn]

135. I didn't

I didn't say he should be honored for joining the service. Plenty of people do that every day who should be in prison or in no way deserve the privilege of serving. The honor comes from his sacrifice.

As I have said many times, I DO support the right to protest, even to protest the ROTC on campus, it's plain old free speech. What I do see as wrong however is the personal attacks, especially on a wounded veteran.

[ZombieHorde]

95. Vets are a sacred cow in the US. Our automatic respect for them is not based on reason anymore. nt

[gateley]

96. You don't speak for me, ZombieHorde, nor for anybody else

but yourself, so just stop making sweeping know-it-all statements. You know nothing.

[ZombieHorde]

102. Do you disagree with my claim that vets are a sacred cow in the US?

Do you believe sacred cows have an affect on reason? I believe sacred cows have a negative affect on reason.

[Township75]

129. I do.

John Kerry was not treated like a sacred cow, and many people who are not republican viewed his veteran status with a bit of contempt.

[ZombieHorde]

138. Kerry's military service was attacked (swift boat) by the right because

military service is a sacred cow. They felt they had to discredit it.

The people who insult soldiers are an extreme minority.

[gateley]

143. Okay, so tell me this -- do you think it was okay to diss this particular

guy?

Regardless of your stance that vets are a Sacred Cow, on an individual basis, would you think this is acceptable?

[ZombieHorde]

144. No. From what I have read in the OP, the audience was being rude to their guest speaker. nt

[gateley]

148. Okay - then I knee-jerk overreacted. As I often do.

:blush:

I've just been so dismayed over the years to hear about servicemen and women not getting really good benefits, having to pay for weapons that aren't "up to snuff" before they're discharged, stuff like that.

So I'm sorry for jumping down your throat, and again, I DO understand where you're coming from. :hi:

[ZombieHorde]

149. No worries. I have knee-jerked many times before, so I completely understand. nt

[Township75]

145. If it were a sacred cow, then by definition they can't attack it.

otherwise, it really isn't sacred.

[ZombieHorde]

152. Cow on cow violence. This is why they had to use the swift boat campaign.

They said he lied about his service.

[gateley]

142. Yeah, I do disagree, but I can understand what you're saying. nt

[mysterysoup]

113. He speaks for me.

Perhaps you should just speak for yourself.

[gateley]

141. I did, if you'd go back and read my post and not just jump in to

snark. I said, "You don't speak for me" -- NOR for anybody else. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinions. So perhaps you should have just agreed with the OP, but apparently it's more important to you to be an asshole? :shrug: I don't give a shit about what you think, mysterysoup, so I certainly wouldn't include you.

Welcome to DU.

[ZombieHorde]

150. Welcome to DU! I hope you have thick skin. nt

[timtom]

139. Actually, he speaks for me.

And I am a vet. USMC 1962-1966. Saigon 1965.

[gateley]

140. I didn't include you in my "didn't speak for" statement - I was

talking about me.

I understand many feel this way, and I can understand why, but my hackles go up at the broad brush stroke -- as though all of America turns a blind eye to the reality that veterans, like others, are to be commended and in some cases condemned.

But basically, again just speaking for myself, I think that for what we ask of you, what we put you through, how we change your lives forever, that you deserve more than you're getting. And more respect.

On a side note, my dad was a physician -- he was a Flight Surgeon in Navy Air during WWII plus did some stuff for some government agency inspecting the conditions in the coal mines (he was horrified). After he retired and sold his practice, he went to work for the VA as the medical director (or whatever it was called) who made the determining factor whether or not a claim would be accepted honored. This is a guy who was straight arrow, hated the fact that people took illegal drugs (which he had to put up plenty of with me)and believed in the military. He came away from that -- the majority of veterans he dealt with were from Viet Nam, saying I can understand why these people took drugs - what they had to do was heartbreaking. So maybe because of that, and because of what a good man my dad was, and my friends who served, I tend to go overboard in my forgiveness/acceptance of veterans.

[ZombieHorde]

146. I agree with your hackles, not all Americans react to soldiers as sacred cows.

Just like not all Indians react to cows as sacred cows.

I am a US citizen and I don't like football, but the US loves football. This is similar to saying something is a sacred cow in a country.

But basically, again just speaking for myself, I think that for what we ask of you, what we put you through, how we change your lives forever, that you deserve more than you're getting. And more respect.

I have no problems increasing soldier's pay and the quality of their health care.

[Zhade]

124. Agreed. Of course, I do not automatically respect them.

I don't automatically disrespect them either -- I mean, I'm from a very military family -- but nor do I genuflect in their presence.

I also don't buy into the "they protect your freedoms" horseshit, since THAT hasn't been true since WWII at the latest.

Brave? Sure. Doing the right thing? Not in my view. Unwitting pawns in maintenance of a decaying empire? Almost universally so.

[Zhade]

126. A brave question. Kudos for having the courage to ask it.

NT!

[Zoeisright]

137. I'd bet good money you're not a veteran.

And shame on you if you are.

[ThomCat]

115. Don't ever believe the Post.

Just because they are protesting ROTC's presence and insulting racism in the military, sexism in the military, and homophobia in the military DOES NOT mean that anyone insulted this vet personally, or personally called him racist or anything else.

This is very blatant and obvious propaganda writing 101. Twist the context of any protest so that the protesters seem to be protesting something beloved. Make the public hate them for the appearing to attack that beloved thing. Never let those protesters make their own case and say what they were really protesting.

Does the military really have a horrible record for discrimination? Yes.

Does the military really have a horrible epidemic of sexual violence on their hands? Yes.

Does the military really cover up all that sexual violence and protect the rapists, while usually doing nothing to help the women? Yes. Actually, far worse than nothing. Instead of doing nothing, they often discharge the women so they can't get even get VA medical care and/or mental health care that they deserve to try to recover. That's actively doing more harm to their own women soldiers, while they protect the male rapists, so they can cover up the problem and deny it exists.

So, do the protesters have very valid reasons they wouldn't want ROTC recruiting students on their campus? Hell Yes!

Does ANY of this mean that a soldier was ever insulted personally? No. For all we know, he could have sat there and watched the protest without ever saying a word, and without a single word ever being directed at him.

But the NYPost wouldn't be able to grab their readers with an emotional story if they told you that. So even if nobody said a word about that vet, they'd insist that every word the protesters said about the military was a personal insult to every vet who ever fought.

Because according to a right-wing rag like the NYPost, every vet is immensely proud of the wars and everything they stand for, of course. Every Vet and active duty member of the military supported everything Bush ever said from the very beginning, leading up to the wars and during the wars. And they were all proud to go and fight these wars, and believed that these wars were absolutely urgent and necessary for the survival of the United Stated of America. And if you ever dared to disagree with anything Bush said or did then the NYPost has happily declared that you simply must just hated the troops.

Keep that in mind and consider the source whenever you see something from the NYPost.

[ThomCat]

116. Delete. Duplicate

[ChazII]

131. Agreed.

I would do that with my son as well.

[madmax]

6. Hope it's bullshit.

Our soldiers don't deserve this Vietnam type of return home treatment.

I didn't support either war but, everytime I see a soldier I thank him/her for their service.

[trumad]

8. Uh---the Vietam thing was nothing more than Right Wing horseshit

and it was dis-proven a long time ago.

[madmax]

44. Perhaps not on a huge scale but, it did happen to a lot of people

I knew, including my cousin who lost an arm and a leg in some fuggin rice paddy.

[No Elephants]

99. Maybe

http://www.google.com/search?q=vietnam+vets+spat+on+urban+legend&btnG=Search&sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS414US414&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

[ThomCat]

117. Most military organizations will now tell you it

is just an urban legend, and nobody was ever really ever spit on when they came back from Vietnam.

Many ended up poor and homeless. Many did not get the medical care they needed. Many ended up alienated from former friends and family and had hard times making friends because of trauma and emotional issues. All that is definitely true.

But that isn't quite the same as the active, personal level of hostility indicated by someone spitting on vets.

Just like:

When protesters protest the military to try to keep the ROTC off campus, that isn't in any way the same thing as protesting the people who served in the military.

Complaining that the military has a bad record for discriminating, and for epidemic violence against women, doesn't mean that they are accusing every vet, or this particular vet, of being guilty of racism, homophobia or violence against women.

It is very possible for these people to be protesting the military without ever protesting vets or soldiers.

But that doesn't make an emotionally gripping story that would make you hate the protesters. So, if the NYPost wants to make their readers hate the protesters (and have no doubt, they do) of course they are going to insist that anything the protesters said to attack the military was really somehow an attack aimed at that soldier.

Of course they are going to re-frame whatever the protesters said, so that instead of having valid criticisms of the military, now they are entirely irrational and hateful attacks against a hero. That's what they want their readers to read. That's the political message the NYPost wants to sell.

Be very careful before you go out of your way to believe a Rupert Murdoch rag. Especially a blatant tabloid like the NYPost.

[WatsonT]

60. It is a peculiar form of narcissism

to refuse to believe anything negative about people we agree with.

The logic is simple: I am awesome and noble and perfect, those guys agree with me and think as I do, they are a reflection of myself, they must be awesome and noble and perfect.

[LanternWaste]

93. I imagine it's also a peculiar form of hubris

I imagine it's also a peculiar form of hubris to argue, even through implication a discredited and invalidated position.

[No Elephants]

103. Then what is believing anyone who disagrees with your thinking is suffering from a "peculiar form

of narcissism?"

I find substantive posts that address the topic a lot more impressive and persuasive than ad hominem posts sneering at individual DU posters or any group of DU posters. I guess the admins do as well, if DU rules are any indication.

Btw, DU rules make good reading.

(Typo edit.)

[WatsonT]

118. Someone said

that no vietnam vet was every spat on. This is untrue. It isn't an argument, it's a statement of fact. That notion that it couldn't have happened because the peace protesters were the good guys is false.

Simple enough.

[Zhade]

127. Never been proven and anecdotal "evidence" isn't, so the statement was accurate.

NT!

[WatsonT]

130. If you dispute that it ever happened

then anecdotal evidence is sufficient. It only takes one instance to disprove that claim.

[Rage for Order]

97. Nonsense. Just because you wish it wasn't true does not make it so

Vietnam vets were routinely ridiculed upon returning home.

[No Elephants]

98. Maybe

http://www.google.com/search?q=vietnam+vets+spat+on+urban+legend&btnG=Search&sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS414US414&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

[ItNerd4life]

151. Wow! Talk about not knowing facts. nt

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zinnisking]

49. OUCH!

Getting praised by a teabagger has got to be the most degrading DU experience ever. My sympathies, madmax.

[zinnisking]

50. double post

[npk]

7. Wow. That is really shameful

I don't approve of many of the military tactics used in recruiting at schools, and this war has been a nightmare from the beginning, but I am surprised that these students at Columbia could not distinguish between the atrocities of the war and this man speaking, who most certainly did not deserve to be booed while he was speaking.

[trumad]

9. I'm surprised members posting in this tread

take a Murdoch rag story and believe it at face value.

[npk]

16. You know I didn't even look at the source

But I should have. I guess I should have stated that "IF" that happened it would be very shameful.

[EFerrari]

20. Yup. n/t

[KurtNYC]

94. I'm not surprised anymore. Many just don't read between the lines.

I notice that in Australian owned media, the messenger is the focus, be it Assange or this vet; the messenger is the story, NOT the message. Too easy.

[Hissyspit]

10. It's from the NYPost.

It's moat assuredly misleading about what occurred, if not mostly lies.

[joshcryer]

11. Does this picture look like people jeering or listening respectfully?

C'mon NYPost, geez.

It may have started with people jeering, but I suspect once the guy went up to talk everyone STFU.

[tammywammy]

27. I linked to the audio in post 26 n/t

[joshcryer]

32. THank you, with that audio and the picture we can surmise that it wasn't as bad as NYP...

...made it out to be.

One instance of laughter when a guy said something inarticulate and sterotypical.

[hughee99]

123. The military preys on low income communities

So keep them out of our "high income" college?

[Hissyspit]

42. "most"

[No Elephants]

12. A million Internet sites will republish Murdoch's bs.

[Kievan Rus]

13. This is absolutely disgusting

I am against the two quagmire wars our country is stuck in, but I have the utmost respect for the men and women who serve and risk their lives overseas.

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Oh come on. This is the latest version of the age-old 'stab in the

back' trope that was deployed most recently by the media against the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War. All those tales of people spitting on returning Vietnam vets were proven to be little more than urban legends.

At every, repeat EVERY, anti-war event I have been to, from small vigils to large demos, any time a vet got the podium, the crowd gave him or her even more respect than other speakers. Thus my personal experience tells me that this story is almost certainly a slander by FOX propaganda organ NYPost.

Edit for mouse run amok.

[FailureToCommunicate]

29. Agreed. I'm sick and tired of that Aussie war monger! e

What bull feathers!

[The abyss]

58. Jerry Lembcke's book documents the smear very well

The Spitting Image - shows very clearly how the image was manufactured and pushed into American culture.

[coalition_unwilling]

66. Thanks! - n/t

[joshcryer]

34. He said something stupid, I think mostly they were being respectful and NYP...

...is distorting what happened.

I don't care if you're a war hero with every decoration possible, doesn't preclude you from being laughed at for saying something stupid.

[former9thward]

14. If they don't want ROTC on the campus they should not accept DOD grant money.

Columbia gets millions every year for research from the Defense Department. That is one area the DOD budget could be cut instantly. http://engineering.columbia.edu/biomedical-engineer-team-receive-62-million-grant-study-effects-blast-central-nervous-system

[Knight Hawk]

23. Great point

[joshcryer]

33. Nice catch. A lot of science programs get DoD funding.

Thanks for reminding everyone.

[No Elephants]

36. Does it do the research? If so, it earns that money.

[former9thward]

40. So does every other defense contractor. They earn the money too.

That's why we have a DOD budget of nearly 800 billion. Do you think their money is pure because they are a university?

[No Elephants]

43. Point is, I disagree that Columbia should have to have recruiters on campus, as in your Reply 14.

Research money is for research and has nothing to do with an obligation to have recruiters on campus.

Your point to which I had replied had zero to do with lowering the DOD budget or with purity, neither of whih are relevant to this thread; and my response did not raise either of those issues.

Please escort your straw persons elsewhere.

[joshcryer]

47. I don't think anyone is advocating a law to mandate it, but it'd be a damn nice courtesey.

It never ceases to amaze me how much computer science gets from DoD funding. It's like all the undergrads are getting the grants and forgetting who paid them.

[mysterysoup]

75. A "courtesey" (sic)? We should be polite to war mongers?

What's this warrior worship about? People here know the record of US aggression all around the world. Why so much support for ROTC, which trains the personnel to carry out this unholy mission?

[No Elephants]

100. Disagree. Pls see Replies 14, 23 and 33.

Also, again, I am no fan of the massive and eternal D of D spending spree, but that was not the point of those replies. Their point was Columbia should do what the military wants (and get grants) or be punished for not doing what the military wants. Neither of those alternatives would necessarily reduce total D of D grants by one cent. And of all the D of D spending, researh is among the least objectionable forms.

"It's like all the undergrads are getting the grants and forgetting who paid them."

Again, if the researh is done, so what? And, by the way, the only folks paying for those grants are taxpayers, inluding the parents of those kids, not anyone in the D of D/military, who are also getting paid by taxpayers. And, it's Columbia who is making out on those grants, not the students.

[WatsonT]

61. Bingo

If they feel this strongly about getting the military off campus then they should be willing to do so even when it hurts them.

[Bill McBlueState]

83. various progressive student groups on my old campus

said exactly that. But there was no way the administration was going to send back federal funds.

I'd wager at most universities, the constituency who wants the ROTC off campus and the constituency who wants DoD funding don't overlap much.

[zinnisking]

15. The biggest problem I have with stories like this...

War vets are heroes by default. My cousin is an Iraq vet. While I love him like no other, I don't consider him a hero for one fucking second.

[Rozlee]

17. You got that right.

The first thing I did when we got scudded was pissed my pants.

[boppers]

18. Sometimes he's on wheels, sometimes on crutches.

He broke both legs, but it seems he's partially ambulatory.

[JEB]

19. The empire's cannon fodder

deserve our sympathy and genuine human support including doing everything possible to stop further glorification of our corporate resource wars.

[mysterysoup]

76. The Romans used to cheer their imperial troops, too....

...as the troops paraded the captives from the far reaches of the Empire, dragging their leaders behind Roman chariots.

[tjl148]

21. Thank you

As a vet I would like to express my appreciation for the kind comments so many of you have made toward veterans. It is nice to know there are still some who can distinguish between the war and those who went. May the war... all wars... end soon.

[FailureToCommunicate]

28. 4 posts in 3 years? I admire you restrain, sir.

And thank you for you service.

[Doctor_J]

22. This is a bunch of crap

Typical Murdoch propaganda

[fahqueue]

24. bad journalism

the article(s) leave very little to distinguish what actually took place (i.e. very little to no "reporting" but plenty of material / opinion to incite a reaction)

[tammywammy]

26. There's audio of this event

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/senate/militaryengagement/20110215clip.mp3

Jeering/laughing at 1:26, someone calling him a racist at 2:29

[joshcryer]

31. Thanks, the laughter seemed to be a minority, and it was kinda warrented with what he was saying.

He was doing really good up until the point where he said "there are people out there that want to kill you."

[FailureToCommunicate]

35. "Other parts of the world are plotting to kill you right now!" " I was shot 9

times but only spent two days in Walter Reed..."

:rofl:

No wonder they heckled this phony ROTC shill.

[joshcryer]

37. Yes, it was probably unavoidable, but really they were quiet throughout his speech.

It wasn't until he said that that they got roudy, and even then it was short lived.

[tammywammy]

45. He spent 2 years at Walter Reed. n/t

[Cid_B]

51. What are you talking about?

"Phony ROTC shill"?

[FailureToCommunicate]

105. Sorry, sounded phony on my snap listen and judgement. Too little

blinded by anger over Murdock dredging up that old 'spitting on the vets' falsehood so he can sow divisions and sell media garbage, I guess.

I apologize.

[Robb]

55. "Phony ROTC shill??"

He spent two years at Walter Reed.

I'm leaning toward believing the reporting is ginned-up outrage, but a response like this is not helping the argument. :eyes:

[Bragi]

59. Wounded vets can still be paid shills for the military /nt

[geek tragedy]

65. Any evidence this guy is a shill, other than irrational bias

and hatred towards US servicepeople?

[Bragi]

81. You unfamiliar with the question mark symbol?

The symbol "?" denotes an interrogatory sentence where a question is asked.

[geek tragedy]

90. I'm familiar with the "Fox News question." nt

[FailureToCommunicate]

108. Heard wrong. Posted too fast. Too angry at Murdock...

I apologize.

I'll try not to let it happen again.

[geek tragedy]

64. Two YEARS, not two DAYS. FailureToCommunicate indeed.

I believe an apology is due.

[FailureToCommunicate]

106. Sorry. See post #105 above. I listened badly, snap judgement.

Wrong things came off my misguided keyboard...

Shan't happen again.

[geek tragedy]

133. No one who posts on DU is perfect.

I suspect the people who don't post here also make mistakes.

Cheers.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomg]

38. Thanks for the audio.

Having listened to the audio and read both the article and the readers of the NYP comments, it is pretty clear that the New York Post got exactly what it wanted: a ginned up outrage that Hannity, O'Reilly et al can now stoke on Fox News. You are right - a little - and I mean very little laughing by a few and one heckler - very briefly- calling out. What is not mentioned is that the moderator calls out the heckler, reminds the audience that it will not be tolerated - oh, and that the speaker is applauded respectfully ( if not overwhelmingly) as is the moderator for stopping any heckling.

And 10 years from now it will be gospel on the right how the despicable, un-American left booed returning vets coming back from Iraq. As far as the vet's comments - I don't agree, but he did a decent job. I have gotten tongue-tied often enough speaking in front of a crowd when i knew most were on the same side as me; when the crowd was against me, I was a lot less coherent.

edited to add: Jesus I hate Murdoch.

[joshcryer]

39. Yep, a completely trivial incident turned into something it was not.

What we'll hear about is how those liberals laughed for all of 3 seconds when the guy said that the world was plotting to kill them but we won't hear about how for the other 150+ seconds of his talk they were completely attentive and respectful.

[tomg]

41. I am betting it's O'Reilly that

Fox has go first on this. He's going to do his "I'm just a blue-collar guy" and "I remember this from the 60s" schtick.

[uberblonde]

30. There are several videos on YouTube...

Of the Columbia ROTC town hall. I can't find anything like the incident that was described, although another vet who spoke in favor of the ROTC was listened to without any heckling and applauded when he was done.

I think there's more to this "story."

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. Would you mind posting the link to the one with the other vet?

:hi:

[Robb]

63. I'd like a link to that as well.

The moderator is on tape above scolding the audience for catcalling and shouting at Maschek; I'd be interested if the others who spoke in favor of ROTC came after that scolding.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

77. I found this one, but I'm not sure when it occurred during the meeting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Oa0tZYYVY

People were perfectly respectful.
I suspect there's a lot more to the story...

[Bragi]

52. Was the vet a paid shill for the military?

If so, then it isn't surprising that the anti-military students jeered im.

[tammywammy]

53. He's a vet that's a student at Columbia. n/t

[Bragi]

54. Is he also paid to shill for the ROTC centre?

That's my question. Is he paid to be part the PR campaign to promote all things military on his campus?

The article is silent on this, but that's the kind of thing the Murdoch media would likely find extraneous to the narrative they want to build, isnt it?

[Robb]

56. You mean, is he a paid recruiter?

That's a good question. Although considering they said "former" staff sergeant, I'd think not. :shrug:

[Bragi]

57. Yeah, that's my question...

Was he there specifically to spark an (inevitable) incident of the sort that happened that would allow the Post to write a story characterizing the anti-military students as "unpatriotic"?

[Robb]

62. Do you have evidence to support that?

It is comforting to imagine that all who disagree are mere props paid by dark forces to do so, I realize.

Serving in the army, and subsequently not hating the army, is not a moral failing.

[Bragi]

78. Evidence for what? To ask a question?

Are you unfamiliar with the category of sentence known as an interrogatory sentence?

[Robb]

89. So has the staff sergeant stopped beating his wife?

[EFerrari]

68. I would like to know how he came to be a speaker as well.

This is a little too convenient.

[Robb]

69. Second of three planned "town hall meetings." He's a student.

Medical discharge from the army, on a full ride from the Lido Civic Club.

People on the left can misbehave, it's not always a grand conspiracy.

[EFerrari]

70. Misbehave? If I heard a speaker peddling that fearmongering crap

it would have been my duty to boo him, too.

[Robb]

71. Therefore walking into a GOP trap, then, by your argument.

Foolish, but of course your right.

[lonestarnot]

72. Surprising that students couldn't have interrupted with facts rather than booing.

Doesn't sound good.

[EFerrari]

84. LOL. I wouldn't want to walk in a GOP trap!

Someone on DU might call me a name!

[No Elephants]

104. Beause one should listen respectfully to someone laying a trap?

I don't think this kid was, but I have no problem with booing someone who is.

[Bragi]

80. I agree. /nt

[westerebus]

111. Why don't you go on face book and ask him?

He may not reply, but you could go to the source.

[nalnn]

67. If...

If those students and any others present made those remarks, or dishonored that soldiers service in any way, well, that's just disgusting to me.

I don't know how true it is or isn't, but the thought of it makes my blood boil. Maybe that was the intention...

[No Elephants]

109. Did you listen to the audio? Or read this thread?

Btw, Kerry was booed in Mass. the other day for his support of the Afghanistan War. Did that dishonor his service? If so, how?

[nalnn]

136. Yeah, I did read it.

Did the event in MA dishonor Kerry's service in Vietnam? Or did it dishonor his service to the U.S. as far as it's involvement in Afghanistan? As far as VN? No, I don't think it was directed to him in that way (I could be wrong though). As far as Af/Pak? Yeah, I don't agree with his involvement in that but I think this is getting out of hand. Civility seems to be lost on most. What's next? Are they going to tar and feather senators again?

[Nossida]

74. It may come as a surprise

Not 'all' Americans support what is being done,
in the Middle East. There being a covert war
being waged in Pakistan doesn't help negate the
fact that the republicans lied us into Iraq.
When is the last time you heard a News Update
on the situation on the ground in Iraq? Don't
hold your breath.

Perhaps the young not so easily fooled?

[Arugula Latte]

79. Sounds like the planted stories from the 60s about Vietnam Vets getting spit on.

[Bragi]

82. If his quote is correct, then he's not very bright

He is quoted as saying: "It doesn't matter how you feel about the war. It doesn't matter how you feel about fighting," said Maschek. "There are bad men out there plotting to kill you."

I hope his understanding of the world, or at least his familiarity with logic, will improve through his educational endeavors.

[nalnn]

85. Wait a minute.

So, you don't think that the U.S. has enemies that would like to see all or some of us dead? How about on a more individual level? People all over have enemies that would kill them given the opportunity.

I don't use it as a rhetorical device or bash people over the brain with it, but I do believe that nations have enemies. It has been that way for all time. Same with people.

If I am misunderstanding you, please forgive and disregard this reply.

:)

[Bragi]

87. There is a logic breakdown here

He is saying that because there are people intend on doing harm to the U.S, it therefore "doesn't matter" how we feel about war.

That's nonsense.

He has bought into the bogus idea promoted by military fearmongers that war is necessary and justified simply because there may be some people who dislike the U.S and wish to do it harm.

[nalnn]

88. Ahhhh

Now I see what you meant. Yes, you are absolutely right that it DOES in fact matter how we feel about war.

Yeah, I kind of feel bad for the guy on this. It's almost as if he didn't or couldn't (due to ignorance) say what he actually meant to say. I have that problem sometimes too LOL :)

[Arugula Latte]

91. We're the ones who go to other countries and bomb the crap out of them ...

We go on the offense for corporate profit. That's the American Way.

[nalnn]

92. You could be right but.

My statement about nations was meant as one on geopolitics in general. Interpersonal for the one about individuals.

[No Elephants]

110. Yes, it has been that way for all of time. And war for all of time hasn't changed that.

Just the opposite, arguably. Neither has having ROTC on campuses.

[Bragi]

112. Yes, of course, the U.S has enemies

But war is not an inevitable or desirable result of having enemies.

I'm not sure what we are debating right now.

[No Elephants]

107. In fairness to this kid, bad men are out there. Always have been, always will be.

And one or an army of them may kill me. Maybe tonight.

But, what does that have to do with ROTC?

[tabasco]

101. Fuckin' assholes.

'nuff said.

[brendan120678]

120. Check out today's online edition of the campus paper...

Students surprised, worried by national media coverage on ROTC

Source: Columbia Spectator
By: Sammy Roth
Published: February 22, 2011

The heckling of an injured war veteran at a town hall event last week has drawn national media attention, to the surprise and discomfort of many involved.

The veteran, Anthony Maschek, GS, was arguing for the return to campus of a Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program at the University Senate’s second public forum on the subject.

“It doesn’t matter how you feel about war. It doesn’t matter how you feel about fighting. Other parts of the world are plotting to kill you right now when you go to bed,” Maschek said at the town hall Tuesday night. “It’s not a joke … these people, seriously, are trying to kill you. They hate America, they hate you.”

Some audience members booed. More laughed. A couple of students yelled “racist” as he left the microphone. But many students in attendance said the majority of the room applauded Maschek, who was awarded a Purple Heart for his service in Iraq.

Excerpt...read the whole story here
----------------------------------------------------
So basically, it was a small number of students who were heckling the vet.

[social_critic]

121. Well, the guy is right, lots of people hate the US

This doesn't mean young men and women should join the armed forces to go invade other countries. It just makes people hate us even more. I guess you could say the US armed forces are more of a negative than a positive when it comes to national security. I vote we shrink their size and bring all those overseas troops home.

[hughee99]

125. Rupert Murdock runs the campus paper too? n/t

[Crowman1979]

122. Well I'm a veteran and anti-war. I highly doubt that peace activists would be acting like this.

It was probably a fringe group either of a half a dozen assholes, or maybe even paid instigators from News Corps. Then the RW propaganda machine blows it WAYYYYY out of proportion and make all the rest of those peace activists guilty by association.

The only people who deserve to be heckled or jeered at are those on top who instigated this mass murder in the first place.

[CanSocDem]

132. Agree.

This is telling.

“It’s not a joke … these people, seriously, are trying to kill you. They hate America, they hate you.” Some audience members booed. More laughed.

I can appreciate the confusion. I'm sure there are still some post-secondary students in the USA, living large, away from home, off campus etc., that think there is nothing to hate in 'America'. BOOOO

I'm encouraged that "more" laughed at the ironic rhetoric that others in this thread have called recruiting and the tactics they are being forced to employ.

"THEY HATE YOU"

. Brilliant!!!

.

[WildEyedLiberal]

147. I thought DU didn't want the military to recruit solely from poor communities

Aren't we forever bitching about how classist the military is, and how the children of the poor are the ones predominantly fighting and dying in our wars? So why shouldn't the precious little scions of the wealthy join the military? I thought DU wanted a more even class distribution in the armed forces so the poor kids aren't the only ones dying for rich men's wars?

This elitist attitude exemplified by the spoiled brats at Columbia is part of the problem, NOT the solution. I may not agree with everything the vet said, but he has certainly earned the right to speak without being harassed. Actually, I take that back. You don't have to "earn" the right to speak in the USA. Too bad there are apparently many here who don't get that.

[hughee99]

153. +1 n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

154. If he "stepped up" while on wheels, I suspect the rest of the article is similarly mendacious.

This is right along the lines of the apocryphal stories of returning Vietnam Vets being spat upon and showered with calls of "baby killer". It's bullshit to prove a propaganda point.