Gabrielle Giffords' Arizona shooting prompts resignations

[ProudProgressiveNow]

Source: Arizona Republic (Azcentral)

A nasty battle between factions of Legislative District 20 Republicans and fears that it could turn violent in the wake of what happened in Tucson on Saturday prompted District Chairman Anthony Miller and several others to resign.

Miller, a 43-year-old Ahwatukee Foothills resident and former campaign worker for U.S. Sen. John McCain, was re-elected to a second one-year term last month. He said constant verbal attacks after that election and Internet blog posts by some local members with Tea Party ties made him worry about his family's safety.

In an e-mail sent a few hours after Saturday's massacre in Tucson that killed six and injured 14, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Miller told state Republican Party Chairman Randy Pullen he was quitting: "Today my wife of 20 yrs ask (sic) me do I think that my PCs (Precinct Committee members) will shoot at our home? So with this being said I am stepping down from LD20GOP Chairman...I will make a full statement on Monday."



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2011/01/11/20110111gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-resignations.html

---

Damn, even Republicans are afraid of the Tea Party factions!

[derby378]

1. I think AZ's GOP has just reached critical mass...

...and the inmates are truly in charge of the asylum.

[Exultant Democracy]

90. Up until a few years ago there were several distinct factions of republicans in AZ

and they all hated eachother even more then the Dem's hence janet napolitano and McCain 2001-2004

[BrklynLiberal]

110. +1000

[wordpix]

130. well we know which side John McCain joined & has he said word one yet?

[hlthe2b]

2. So now that Republicans are afraid of violence from teapartiers

are my fellow DUers a few who have expressed shame at the implied link to RW violence and Laughner's motives ready to accept, it really doesn't matter? The issue is the violent threats, whether it ultimately is linked to the actions of this one disturbed young man or not. The consequences have been established in other incidents and it is time to push back firmly to stop this.

[ArizonaLiberal]

3. And this too......

Lawmaker carries gun onto House floorNew state Sen. Lori Klein brought a special guest to the state Capitol Monday, and it wasn't Joe the Plumber, the subject of her first news release.
It was her .38 special, which she carried in her purse.
“I pack,” the Anthem Republican said. “Our safety is our personal responsibility.”
Klein carried the gun with her at the Senate, and then to the House, where the chamber was crammed with 90 lawmakers, their families and friends, the Supreme Court justices, dignitaries from across Arizona and others, all awaiting Gov. Jan Brewer's State of the State speech, which had a somber, reflective tone in light of the mass shooting in Tucson.
Klein said she didn't think the events in Tucson should influence her decision to carry a gun, something she's done for more than 10 years.
“It goes wherever I go,” said Klein. “I got sworn in with it. I didn't think it was an issue.”

http://www.azcentral.com/news/Blog/PoliticalInsider/113864

[chervilant]

49. Wow...

“Our safety is our personal responsibility.” Talk about implicitly "blaming and shaming" victims of violent crimes.

I cannot imagine shooting anyone, even in self defense.

I am completely disgusted with the hate, the fear, the vitriol in our public and political discourse--is our species devolving into fearful, thuggish sociopaths?!

I am finding myself less and less committed to activism and advocacy. I feel like I'm spitting in the wind--like I'm Sisyphus watching the massive boulder rolling back down the hill.

How very sad this world is become...

[WestSeattle2]

73. How very sad this country has become. There are still pockets

of sanity found world-wide. And we wonder why many parts of the globe look at the US as an insane asylum.

[RKP5637]

101. Quite true! IMO, anymore, the US looks and sounds more and more like a bunch of fools! The pay/

opportunities would have to be damn good IMO to get one to locate to the US if they had other opportunities.

[WestSeattle2]

128. Indeed. This would not be my first choice either. I'm more of a

live and let live Scandinavian type. If I were 18 years old again, I'd seriously consider citizenship alternatives.

[RKP5637]

129. Same here. n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

82. I don't think it's an ideal situation either, but...........

I DO believe in self defense. I don't think I would have a problem killing someone in a life or death situation. That said, I'm not going to go out looking for a life and death situation to get involved in either. HOWEVER, I will NOT be silenced. I have as much of a right to free speech as any Teabagger and I will use it.

As to your next to last paragraph, I have a feeling I'm older than you (Hell sometime I think I'm older than EVERYBODY) and one thing I've learned through the years is that you don't go into left wing activism and advocacy because it's the "popular" or "easy" thing to do. You won't last if you do it that way. It's a calling, not just a job (to paraphrase Chris Hayes). You've got to BELIEVE with your whole being in what you advocate. Otherwise, you ARE just pissing in the wind. I have found that it's sometimes necessary to dial it back though and take some breaks from activity. Not belief, just activity. Good luck to you.

[chervilant]

137. Thanks,

I appreciate your comments. I turned 55 on January 6. I have been an activist and an advocate since I was 12 years old. I've done advocacy for survivors of relationship violence for more than 25 years, and for children for more than ten.

I HAVE felt as though I could kill someone--when a furtive, middle-aged man started watching my baby niece from the edge of a public park, where we were swinging and playing on the jungle gym. If he had made any threatening move toward her, I would have reacted in a murderous rage. The realization that I could react thusly was and remains discomfiting to me. You see, I'm a pacifist, and a big fan of Gandhi's satyagraha.

When I hear someone say "our safety is our personal responsibility," that's tatamount to them saying, "if you weren't wearing that miniskirt and that skimpy blouse, you wouldn't have gotten raped!" While I agree that there are steps we can take to be aware of our vulnerabilities, and to avoid potentially dangerous situations, no one can be held responsible for the violent and criminal actions of another human being.

[Atypical Liberal]

104. It is not blaming the victim.

It is not blaming the victim. One's personal safety is ultimately one's own responsibility.

If you disagree, whose responsibility do you think your safety ultimately belongs to?

The courts have held that the police are not responsible for any citizen's safety except for those directly in their custody.

If you do not feel it is right to resist violence with deadly force, that is your right. But people should be able to make that decision for themselves. Personally, I feel that everyone should have the right to defend their person, their family, and their property with deadly force.

You could end up like this poor woman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags

[AlbertCat]

106. One's personal safety is ultimately one's own responsibility.

Especially in a country where people can carry concealed weapons anywhere they want that include semi-auto clips with 30 rounds. They can be found at schools, churches, playgrounds, malls, the street. (and it obviously works!... oh wait.... never mind)

The government has no responsibility WHATSOEVER of creating a safe environment. All we need is a bunch of armed citizens and everything is hunky-dory! Hell, let's get rid of the police! Who needs 'em if you're packin'????
Citizens should be REQUIRED to carry a gun. It'll be just like the ol' West! Yee Ha!



This "personal responsibility" statement is one of the stupidest things said in defense of guns guns guns everywhere in a long line of stupid and absurd gun-lover statements. Always ignoring the fact that anybody CAN get a gun now from states with lax gun laws. Ignoring the fact that one of the most lax states, AZ, is where the latest tragedy happened. Where were all those gun toting citizens to help out? Or do they only protect themselves? I love the logic of "more guns will prevent gun violence!" even though it obviously isn't true. Just the opposite is.

What the hell is wrong with some common sense laws making it much harder for nuts and criminals to get a gun? If you want one, then jump through the hoops and prove you are worthy of owning a weapon that kills people. There are 100 guns to every person in the USA. Boy, the gun manufacturers and their allies are making a mint off your fear of the fear THEY create. Good business plan, huh?

[Atypical Liberal]

108. That is a lot of straw men.

One's personal safety is ultimately one's own responsibility.

First of all, personal safety is ultimately one's own responsibility. Again, if you don't think this is true, who do you think is ultimately responsible for your safety? Seriously, I want to know your answer to that.

Especially in a country where people can carry concealed weapons anywhere they want that include semi-auto clips with 30 rounds. They can be found at schools, churches, playgrounds, malls, the street. (and it obviously works!... oh wait.... never mind)

There are millions of defensive gun uses every year, as has been posted here before. Further, Concealed Carry Permit holders have been shown to be far less likely to be involved in crime than non-CCW permit holders. And despite the fact that since 1986 most states now allow concealed carry, without the blood-bath the nay-sayers said would happen, I'd say concealed carry works just fine.

The government has no responsibility WHATSOEVER of creating a safe environment. All we need is a bunch of armed citizens and everything is hunky-dory! Hell, let's get rid of the police! Who needs 'em if you're packin'????
Citizens should be REQUIRED to carry a gun. It'll be just like the ol' West! Yee Ha!

No one has claimed that the government has no responsibility to creating a safe environment. No one has claimed that we should get rid of the police. No one has said that citizens should be required to carry firearms. You are attempting to raise these straw men to make my side look absurd. But no one has claimed these things.

This "personal responsibility" statement is one of the stupidest things said in defense of guns guns guns everywhere in a long line of stupid and absurd gun-lover statements. Always ignoring the fact that anybody CAN get a gun now from states with lax gun laws. Ignoring the fact that one of the most lax states, AZ, is where the latest tragedy happened. Where were all those gun toting citizens to help out?

In point of fact, one of the people who helped subdue Loughner was carrying a concealed firearm. He did not use it because this time it was not necessary, but, as he has said during interviews, he was very ready to do so. If Loughner had successfully reloaded his firearm, or produced a second one, that CCW permit holder might have made all the difference in the world.

I love the logic of "more guns will prevent gun violence!" even though it obviously isn't true. Just the opposite is.

Strange, then, that in spite of record sales of firearms and ammunition over the last two years we continue to have declining violent crime rates and accidental death rates due to firearms.

What the hell is wrong with some common sense laws making it much harder for nuts and criminals to get a gun? If you want one, then jump through the hoops and prove you are worthy of owning a weapon that kills people. There are 100 guns to every person in the USA. Boy, the gun manufacturers and their allies are making a mint off your fear of the fear THEY create. Good business plan, huh?

I'm curious as to what your solution would be? The shooter bought his firearm at a gun store, which means he went through the NICS background check. Today, if you have been convicted of certain felonies, or if you have been adjudicated mentally incompetent by a court of law, or if you have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution by a court of law, then you should fail the NICS check and be unable to purchase a firearm.

What additional hoops would you suggest?

I agree that there should be better access to health care, including mental health care, so that people with mental problems can be identified sooner. But how are you going to re-define what mental problems get put into the NICS system?

[Quasimodem]

127. Every person's safety ...

... is the responsibility of society, or what are society's laws, its police, its courts and its prisons for?

People who overturn society's role of policing, judging and executing wrongdoers are simply vigilantes

Except for very narrow conditions where their weapon can be used in a clearcut defense of their lives, AFTER an attack has commenced, they will find themselves defending those actions in a court of law.

[RKP5637]

131. Exactly. I had thought the US was above being a barbaric society. I would hate to

think we are going back to everyone carrying clubs.

[chervilant]

138. So

you're saying that the woman you're referencing is 'responsible' for being sexually assaulted by a massive, deranged man who broke into her home? And, you're saying that she should have resisted his violence with deadly force?

Gosh, I'd HAVE to say that you're blaming the victim.

[chervilant]

144. BTW,

I recommend that you view this clip

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-more-guns-does-not-equal-les#comments

I'm really not impressed with the idea of our species regressing to the point that everyone is carrying a club.

[tavalon]

52. Wow, Senator Klein,

you are really, really stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. If she feels unsafe in the state senate, she's got problems

Is she even competent to serve?

[glinda]

116. No she is a "gun braggart". Showing off how big she is.

[RKP5637]

133. Hmmm, does she carry a jockstrap for that gun! n/t

[arikara]

102. How can someone think they can pull their gun

out of their purse or pocket or wherever else they may keep it, and manage to stop an assassin who is standing across the room pointing an assault weapon or pistol at their head; all before they get shot?

Maybe I just don't get it because I'm Canadian, but I really don't get all this gun toting that goes on in the US. I mean why is a disturbed person allowed to go in to a bloody Walmart of all places and purchase a clip that has no valid use other than for killing people. And why is anyone at all but especially people with mental issues - and that includes tea baggers - allowed to pack pistols and assault weapons around in public places?

[RKP5637]

134. It's becoming a more deranged nation each day. n/t

[glinda]

115. I don't think our lawmakers should pack at the Gov. buildings. They could murder the President.

[northernlights]

117. obviously if Gifford had been packing, she would have been safe

After Loughner shot her through the head, clearly she could have shot first in self defense. :sarcasm:

What a bunch of fucktards they remain...

[boppers]

142. Gabby routinely carries a Glock 19.

No word on if she had it on her at the time.

[chollybocker]

4. Trouble in Paradise?

Whodathunk.

(ps: Teabaggers ARE Republicans. Republican ideals, Republican funding, Republican votes. Someday, the librul lamestream media will be forced to admit this.)

[harun]

6. The Corporate Media created it, they won't admit anything.

[freshwest]

16. And the FCC is toothless.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

23. The FCC is controlled and owned by the media

Of course they're toothless.

[freshwest]

25. The FCC was buried under Bush, but Clinton dug the grave with the auctions.

[RKP5637]

103. Bill Clinton was not everyones best friend despite what many feel/think. n/t

[No Elephants]

53. Koch (rhymes with "joke") brothers created the Tea Party.

[harun]

87. They astro-turfed it along with the Corporate Media

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

[EFerrari]

5. Hmm. I thought the left was "making this up" for political gain. n/t

[freshwest]

19. Sure we did!

:sarcasm:

We're getting tired of funerals...

:rant:

[Xipe Totec]

7. More tea, my dear?

[russspeakeasy]

17. Excellent !

[Nostradammit]

47. Yes!

Time for you to tame your own beast, GOP.

[drm604]

67. Perfect metaphor. n/t

[rurallib]

8. As ye sow, so shall you reap.

[freshwest]

20. Rosemary had a baby. We know who the daddy was.

All sarcasm aside, this might do some good.

[workinclasszero]

26. Republicans created this monster

Now they can live with the teabaggers...or die with them??

Looks like the brownshirts are taking over eh?

[freshwest]

37. The GOP was always leading up to this, just wearing a smiley face.

Instead of doing as they say, their children are simply acting out what they really believed in.

You can't idolize the rich and the ruthless, destroy people and the environment, and reap anything else.

We're all in danger from their offspring.

[janedum]

70. GOP brought this on themselves. At my local RW hate radio station ...

Local RW hate radio station (WMAL) in Wash DC ... it's business as usual.
They're right back to their hate and DIVISIVENESS this morning.
It's a REPUKELICON HATE machine.
Disgusting!

[No Elephants]

54. Please see Reply 53.

[ronnie624]

94. It wold be much easier if you would simply repeat your initial claim.

Searching for a particular message can be rather tedious in a lengthy thread.

[No Elephants]

140. Easier for whom? All you have to do is type 53. in your Google bar.

[ronnie624]

141. Easier for me.

I take note of your opinion on various issues.

I didn't know about the Google bar, but I just tried it, and it didn't work. I cannot be honestly referred to as 'computer savvy', however. I'll figure it out sooner or later. Thanks for the tip.

[RainDog]

9. when do the Republicans decide to declare the tea party a terrorist organization?

they're so quick to use that term - why don't they use it for people who try to disrupt the functioning of the American govt by threats of violence when that group is predominantly white?

[freshwest]

21. That would be perfect, but they'd have to call out Karl Rove and Tom Delay, too.

Let it be so.

[IcyPeas]

10. let the minions (teabaggers) do the dirty work...

I always considered the teabaggers to be a branch of the repuke party - the branch that went out and did the dirty work for the "bosses".

[RainDog]

14. when you rouse a fascist populist response, you may get more than you bargained for

not all Republicans support this nascent fascism...and they are the ones who are no longer welcome in their party.

but this has been building in the Republican party for a long time - it started with Goldwater in 1968. Nixon employed the southern strategy in his election to cull white racist voters from the democratic party and Ronald Reagan pulled in the religious extremists (and he also made overtures to neo-Nazis - if you remember him placing the wreath on the Nazi grave - Chip Berlet has written about Reagan incorporating right wing extremists into the "mainstream."

The religious fundamentalist faction, like the Texas Republican Party, with their eliding of church and state, the racism in the south and southwest - the rise of the demagogues like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh -

The Republicans created a perfect storm (front) for America.

I hope they're proud.

[freshwest]

22. They're going to have a very hard time cleaning up their cult.

How can you reason with people who excuse every outrage with a belief system that they are ushering in the Kingdom of Heaven, by whatever means necessary?

[RKP5637]

135. It's a very dangerous combination, violence, a god and a delusional mission. n/t

[oldhippydude]

34. actually

Goldwater was 64..

[RainDog]

40. thank you for correcting my error. too late for me to correct the date n/t

[freshwest]

42. True, Goldwater lost in 1964, winning only AZ and the Deep South as the

Dixiecrats > Blue Dogs left the Democratic Party. The revolt was brewing prior to 1964 because of Kennedy's submitting civil rights legislation in 1963 before he was assassinated.

The legislation became law in 1964 after his death and Johnson argued for having 'the big tent' Democratic Party.

Phooey on those conservatives who went to over to the GOP and refused to grow up.

[RainDog]

45. And Johnson called it - he said the Democratic Party had lost the south for a generation

because, sadly, a large portion of the American population is racist.

we've seen this demonstrated without doubt in the reaction to the first African-American president.

Death threats against the office of the president, when Obama took office, increased 400%.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/new-report-find-secret-service-overwhelmed-by-increased-threats.php

so we're still dealing with the same people who seek to create an America that the majority of Americans reject - yet they are organized and they vote as a bloc in elections - and this is why Republicans play to them and nurse their sense of victimization.

I think it's also rather telling that the states associated with such extremism are also states with the weakest social safety nets - considering that more whites than blacks are on welfare, religious fundamentalists are more likely to be divorced than those "northern liberals" and their children are also more likely to have children.

it's a cycle of despair and ignorance - putting the blame in the wrong place - that Republicans exploit to win elections.

that's pretty sick.

[No Elephants]

58. those who switched Parties bc of the Civil Rights Act were racists, period.

Calling them conservatives makes it sound as though there were other issues and gives them dignity they do not deserve. The South went solid Dem after Emancipation and stayed that way until the Civil Rights Act, whereupon, it began going solid Rethug. (Many African Americans did the reverse.)

I'm not sure if Johnson actually said that, or if it is urban legend. If he did, he was wrong. It's been more like 2+ generations already and we're still counting. And, since most folks vote as their parents did.....

[lyonn]

107. Wow, your post is powerful

It brings back memories of my voting years. It started with my first vote for a president and it was Kennedy. But, I had a strong dislike for Johnson and it was not because of his civil rights work, it was the Vietnam War. Nixon gets in and had promised to get us out of VN quickly and with dignity. What a bunch of lies or BS. Then the repubs pull in the religious crowd to get votes which crowd wants to do away with abortion rights and demand we keep christian rules front and center. Also, I believed the trickle down economy blather since I respected our corps that made America strong and provided jobs for the masses. By the time Reagan left office, mindless, That is when I finally understood what the repubs stood for. Because, to my humiliation, I voted for often.

My excuse for being so stupid back then is lack of info and education. My husband was getting an education while he and I worked crummy jobs and had kids. What excuse can anyone have for political ignorance at this time when information is readily out there if your interested.

Oklahomans can be so bullheaded. Is it the black issue? Are we not a welfare State? A State where they insist you have the child but damn sure don't want to help you raise it. I grew up in Cali and spend some time in my late teens in Fla where blacks were not allowed to go to the beach or use the same toilet facilities or water fountains. It truly shocked me then that areas of our country could be so cruel...... it's like going back in time.

[RKP5637]

136. It is like going back in time, just

the robes are missing this time around.

[No Elephants]

55. Self delete. Wrong spot.

[theHandpuppet]

69. Good post

Some historical pespective on just how this was all carefully crafted and nutured for many years.

[coalition_unwilling]

111. Barry Goldwater would, I think, condemn quite forthrightly what is

transpiring in his Republican Party these days. BTW, Goldwater ran against LBJ in 1964, not 1968 (when Nixon ran against and defeated Humphrey).

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Secret Service, STAY FROSTY tomorrow

god, these people are dangerous.

[Doctor_J]

12. Can e now admit that the terrorists are winning?

The debate is over - we are a third world country, run by a violent criminal cartel

[patrice]

92. "Violent criminal cartel" who will quickly get it back behind closed doors, until the next Oswald.nt

[DeSwiss]

13. K&R

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rIZfaHBJWHE/TPfk-sYoNOI/AAAAAAAAXks/0_xTXn_szd0/s1600/Anthony+Miller.jpg
Anthony Miller

The newly-elected Dist. 20 Republican secretary, Sophia Johnson of Ahwatukee, first vice chairman Roger Dickinson of Tempe and Jeff Kolb, the former district spokesman from Ahwatukee, also quit. "This singular focus on 'getting' Anthony (Miller) was one of the main reasons I chose to resign," Kolb said in an e-mail to another party activist. Kolb confirmed the contents of the e-mail to the Republic.

...

The first and only African-American to hold the party's precinct chairmanship, Miller said he has been called "McCain's boy," and during the campaign saw a critic form his hand in the shape of a gun and point it at him. "I wasn't going to resign but decided to quit after what happened Saturday," Miller said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone." http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2011/01/11/20110111gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-resignations.html">link

- See, this is where we're different Anthony. The only way I could ever be forced to say that I even was a Republican would have to be at gunpoint......

[chervilant]

51. OMG!

"I love the Republican Party..." WTF?! Just WHAT about the GOP do you love, Anthony???

[disillusioned73]

78. Seems like love of convenience to me...

I would never quit something I loved - just saying.

edited to say;

Loving a political party is in and of itself troubling - I love my son, wife & family... I am passionate about politics and the Democratic party left me long ago - no love lost there, trust me.

[TBF]

66. As Anthony thinks this through he may realize that although he likes

the principles of small government (which I disagree with but respect as their argument), a certain element of his party has strayed off the deep end.

I don't think all republicans are racist or crazy - but unfortunately by accepting this behavior from some in their party they are rubber-stamping the violence.

[Festivito]

86. Your snip cut that his "critics" were MORE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS. /nt

[WheelWalker]

15. Don't they call it "blowback?" nt

[TxVietVet]

18. The conservanazi bastards have threatened many at rallys

and expect everyone to believe they are so innocent. How many times did they rally and protest carrying weapons? They did that to intimidate the opposition and imply they would had the weapons to cause harm. The their message was clear. The teabaggers are the rabid "brownshirts" of the conservanazi repuliklan party. The older "establishment" Republicans are no longer welcome in that party.
If the party hacks wouldn't put out the message the Kock Brothers wanted, threats, intimidation and other terrorist acts would happen. That's the dick armey for you. ;-)

Where does it stop?

[freshwest]

24. If I could Rec your reply I would!

So I'll settle for:

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[CLANG]

32. Yeah. I thought the "Kock Brothers" was a nice touch.

[True_Blue]

50. X2!

:thumbsup:

[KT2000]

28. "the Dick Armey"

:rofl:
good post - you covered the bases well.

[Historic NY]

36. +100

[JusticeForAll]

27. This is really sad

It is with shock and sadness that I come to DU and see this as the lead story. I have been a DU member since the beginning, but post very infrequently.

I am an acquaintance and neighbor of Anthony Miller, and while we disagree over just about everything politically, I still feel he has a big heart and a kindness rarely experienced. We've electioneered together at the same polling places (for different candidates obviously!) and we've been at the same political events together. He has always been kind, conversant, and an extraordinarily polite debate partner.

This is an absolute shame for someone to not be able to pursue their ideals of thought and policy with the freedom we all deserve.

I hope you will be kind in your comments about Mr. Miller and his family. This tragedy has already hurt enough of us in Arizona.

My heart is heavy with sadness and prayers for all who continue to be impacted by this national tragedy felt so deeply locally.

Thanks,

JusticeForAll

[eridani]

64. I know what you mean. Before WA State went to all mail balloting--

--both parties had runners going from polling place to polling place checking the names of those who had already voted. I remember feeling a distinct sense of kinship with my Republican opposite numbers--at least, I thought, they are putting down their remotes for a day and participating.

[Ten Bears]

68. I think your description of Mr. Miller shows why he was a target to the extremists in his party:

"...he has a big heart and a kindness rarely experienced." "He has always been kind, conversant, and an extraordinarily polite debate partner." They can't have any of that in the tea party universe.

edited for spelling, stupid roll-up keyboard

[freshwest]

100. Thanks for the personal story about your friend. He sounds like he was a very good person.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. This is not a good thing

in any way shape or form.

My Kafkaesque nightmares are taking form and again, NOT in a good way...

Trends...

[cbdo2007]

30. Didn't he get the memo that the shooting wasn't politically motivated?

[freshwest]

33. Guess he didn't buy that lie, since he knows them better than the media.

[cbdo2007]

35. Even go in the GD forum and half the people there act like it wasn't politically motivated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. But, but, but both sides do it

and it wasn't...

Didn't you listen to the memes spread already?

:hi:

[freshwest]

83. Those who say it's all the same are ignoring the body count.

[RainDog]

48. the shooting of Giffords is not a one-to-one correspondence with this man's fear

tho, obviously, the murder of a nine-year-old at a political "town hall" meeting at a grocery store has given him pause.

however, this murder has made it acceptable for mainstream politicians to acknowledge the threat of violence that is the political tactic of the teabaggers - even people who have identified as Republicans.

-- because this pol knows that, even tho this current shooter is not identified as a teabagger, teabaggers are the ones who have been making threats against those in public office - including those teabaggers who have run for office, Teabaggers are the ones who have engaged in acts of vandalism when they did not get their way, politically.

Teabaggers are the ones who have engaged in the very tactics the fascists used against the population in Germany to create a climate of fear - then, with the Reichstag fire, which was blamed on a communist but actually carried out by a fascist, they took power and began a program of terror that destroyed their nation and crippled the European continent for a generation.

There are historical references that demonstrate why current Republicans need to have the courage to dissociate from the teabaggers - if these sane Republicans care about this nation. If they only care about their political and other fortune, they'll continue, like Dick Armey and Rush Limbaugh, to feed the fire of political instability.

Those politicians who continue to enable the teabaggers demonstrate they are not responsible enough to hold power.

[kestrel91316]

31. They created this Frankenstein monster. Now see how it turns against them.

Hey, wait, I thought everybody was supposed to be afraid of us big, bad liberals. This guy is seriously off script.

[somone]

38. The revolution devours its children

[RainDog]

41. goya's famous painting depicting revolutionary terror remains powerful

Saturn Devouring His Children

[juxtaposed]

39. what a sad world we live

[Kall]

43. Dunno what has you guys so upset

According to Gloria Borger and the rest of the mainstream media geniuses, both sides are equally guilty of this kind of thing. And they wouldn't steer us astray.

/snark

[rhett o rick]

46. This is terrorism. Why is this not being treated as terrorism? nm

[jobycom]

75. If they aren't Muslim, it's just good old Republican values. nt

[jonthebru]

56. You think maybe...

a terrible thing like this could help Arizona's citizens in waking up to the really dumb way their state government operates and how not having any taxes collected from people hurts everybody.
I hope everybody reads the Harper's Magazine article about AZ that was on DU this weekend. The selfishness of the "I got mine" generation which doesn't want to fund their local government through taxes really sucks. And clearing firearm purchasers to weed out unstable people, get me started...

Think this episode will change anything?

[54anickel]

74. Would you happen to have a link? "...Harper's Magazine article about AZ..."

"I hope everybody reads the Harper's Magazine article about AZ that was on DU this weekend"

[defendandprotect]

98. Only if we begin to open more channels of communication, person to person .....

we need to learn how to speak to our neighbors -- how to avoid the rightwing

landmines planted over decades by the GOP/NRA and Faux News!

Some fancy right wing propaganda has been swallowed whole over the decades --

and we have to hope that by now it's causing a lot of indigestion for the public -- !!



:nuke:

[trud]

59. cowardice

Pack up the spouse and kids and send them out of town. But never quit. Otherwise you give in to terrorism.

[rasputin1952]

60. This is preceisely how terrorism works...

it fills a population with fear and then there is reaction.

Some of the reaction is detrimental, like the "Patriot Act", at other times, the reaction has the potential to remove the threat.

The KKK terrorized the country for 100 years; McCarthy & his minions terrorized a postwar generation, the list could go on, but what's the point?

The Teabaggers are a radical fringe group that incites fear, that is their purpose, nothing else. Are there some decent R's in the Teabag movement, I'm sure there are, but they would be severe minority. The demonization of everything from "big government" to local school boards has the fringe elements moving in to "take power" where they can. We see elements of this all of the time, look at the TX schoolbook fiasco, which affected a large part of what will be taught throughout the country. They purveyance of ignorance is astonishing. Libraries are accosted because a few clowns have decided that a couple of books are somehow "unacceptable"; forget the notion that these people never read the books in question, it is because some lunatic told them they were "evil".

Terrorism works because people do not challenge it at every level. We see it every day, some loudmouth gains some airtime demonizing someone or something, and goes unchallenged. One reason we lost the House was because far too many people, as in WE The People, didn't get off their collective asses and vote...not just nationally, but especially locally. Morons and clowns get on school boards because they get the votes, not because they are somehow "good" politicians, we fail to realize that every election that is sat out can have severe consequences.

[defendandprotect]

99. Do agree with most of what you are saying .... KKK, McCarthy Era... T-Baggers .....

However, re this ....

One reason we lost the House was because far too many people, as in WE The People, didn't get off their collective asses and vote...not just nationally, but especially locally

It's a long time tradition for politicians to try to keep voters home -- they do it by

demoralizing them, by avoiding populist campaigns -- by shaping debates/discussions by

candidates to avoid subjects which are of interest to the public.

That's what happened in 2010. If you want to blame someone for keeping voters home, look

to the two parties -- and, sadly, this administration.

I'd also look to computer voting which has been in place since the late 1960's -- i.e.,

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey which was another squeaker which also

had the secret and treasonous move by Nixon to stop the Vietnam peace talks from going forward

suggesting that if he were elected, they'd get a better deal.

I'm in NJ -- and I ask every day, "How in the hell did Christie get elected?"

[rasputin1952]

109. Trust me, i know what you're talking about...

some answers though:

Electronic ballots, fine by me, but there must be a printed ballot that can be used for review/verification of results.

People tend to forget that there are local items involved in every election.

There is a lot more than just D or R candidates to worry about, plenty of states have suffered miserably because people sat out an election where an amendment or law was on the ballot.

I wonder how Christie got elected as well, but I'm in NE, and I fought like hell to get Ben Nelson re-elected, now I hang my head in shame. I'm still trying to figure out how Brewer took AZ...but thank god, as miserable as McCain is, JD Hayworth is far closer to satan's ass than McCain and he blew out.

[defendandprotect]

114. Disagree re any computer voting -- has to go --

Electronic ballots, fine by me, but there must be a printed ballot that can be used for review/verification of results.

Not sufficient -- we need to return to paper and ink -- and hand-counting.

People tend to forget that there are local items involved in every election.

There is a lot more than just D or R candidates to worry about, plenty of states have suffered miserably because people sat out an election where an amendment or law was on the ballot.

Again, it used to be the responsibility of the party to inform voters about local issues --

used to be representatives readily available in every neighborhood constantly talking with

the people about issues -- about legislation -- about what was coming up. That was done

away with long ago -- and we suffer for it.

I wonder how Christie got elected as well, but I'm in NE, and I fought like hell to get Ben Nelson re-elected, now I hang my head in shame. I'm still trying to figure out how Brewer took AZ...but thank god, as miserable as McCain is, JD Hayworth is far closer to satan's ass than McCain and he blew out.

And also look at Florida --

Right wing propaganda works -- always has --

But computers are too dangerous to play with -- we need to end their use.

Also, keep in mind that just before the voting computers came in -- the large computers used

by MSM came in ... about '65. That gave them new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections.

Whereas previously they could only get a little group together to discuss the "likelihood"

of this or that trend or direction. Now ... these large computers gave them the ability to

declare WINNERS and LOSERS with as little as 1% of the vote counted!!

What we saw in 2000, was simply a reversal of those new powers by Jon Ellis at Faux News

working in W's interests with the recall of Florida from Gore!


Actual, smaller voting computers began to come in during late 1960's -- and were immediately

being investigated by two Florida journalists -- who also reported their results to the

head of the Dem Party at the Watergage -- and signed a contract for a book which was printed

and then taken off book store shelves.

Here's a link where you can read excerpts from their book, if you're interested --

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Family keeps the website going -- and the book available free --

though it can be bought for $3 here and there.

VOTESCAM -- THE STEALING OF AMERICA


:)

[xchrom]

61. i don't feel sorry for them. -- their talking heads, their political leaders,

their campaign strategists, all of them created this -- now they have to live with it.

i do feel sorry for all the rest of us.

[florida08]

62. nothing but anarchy

how long before this kind of thing spreads across the map. I guess Steele is hiding like Palin. Just who is the leader of the GOP anyway?

[Hubert Flottz]

63. Typical Reich Wing Coward.

Scared of their shadow.

[Marje]

65. with Palin had read this....

The two most powerful lines in the letter were at the end. Wish they had been at the beginning... Palin might actually have read them.

"Many of us believe that the most courageous leaders and activists are those who are willing to be attacked for their beliefs not those who threaten to attack.

Ms. Palin, if you are among those who believe that political change can come about non-violently, without hate, violence, or the threat of violence, now would be an excellent time to say so."

[bonnieS]

71. Forget the gloating

the Brown Shirts have taken over. This is not a "gotcha" moment. I am purposely not addressing this to any specific commenter.

[Posteritatis]

146. Yep. This sort of thing is only capable of sucking

If an elected official - especially one at that junior a level - has to live in fear for their family's safety, something is terribly wrong, and I think that's true regardless of the official's political affiliations.

[1American]

72. Resignations

WHAT? WHAT? Tea Party nutjobs violent? Wearing guns to political rallies is violent? Putting rifle scope crosshairs on candidates is violent?

Naaaw! It's all just "enthusiasm"--just like Palin's , Limbaugh's and sociopathic Beck's.

[Action]

76. Power at any cost

Repubs have sold their souls to the tea party all in the name of winning/keeping power. There will be much more to come.

[disillusioned73]

77. Someone needs to let this guy know ..

it wasn't POLITICAL, he'll be fine it was just a random act of violence and that the whole fervor from the right is inconsequential. MSM, political pundits & your garden variety DU'er agree.

:sarcasm: (if needed)

[valerief]

79. Violence is how they get what they want. Looks like they're getting it. nt

[Harry Monroe]

80. Arizona GOP reaps what it sows!!

[Harry Monroe]

81. When the "useful idiots" cease being useful, what then?

[demokatgurrl]

84. All part of the "victim" act if you ask me. n/t

[Festivito]

85. His "critics" were, get this, OTHER REPUBLICANS.

"...criticized by the more conservative party members who supported Republican opponent J.D. Hayworth."

"... and during the campaign saw a critic form his hand in the shape of a gun and point it at him."

No one goes to speeches with their opponents in attendance anymore. And, this was a low level job.

It's trying to be spun as "it happens on both sides". BS.

He's more afraid of HIS OWN FELLOW REPUBLICANS, whom he describes as more conservative.

[davidthegnome]

88. This doesn't come as a surprise to me

Their goal has always been to remove all seated incumbents and replace them with tea party members. Within the tea party there is no room for moderates or republicans who are not members themselves (though they may use them). The only real compensation for the republicans in this (the majority that isn't officially affiliated with the tea party) is that they hate liberals and democrats far worse. They (the republican party in general) believe that they can continue to make use of this "movement" in order to erode support for any democratic policies. I would say that so far, this method has met with some success - particularly given the media's eager support of the movement. It's something of a double edged sword - the republicans believe they are using the tea party while the tea party is actually using the republicans.

For the most part it has been empty rhetoric and a bunch of tough talk - but there are those who will go further. When it comes to achieving their agenda I do not think they will hesitate to use violence or threats or violence (indeed, the threats have already been used, multiple times). A very small minority, yet vocal and armed - they are having an effect on National politics overall, a small one now, but if we give in to fear that effect will grow. Miller's capitulation in the face of the threat of violence serves their agenda very well. I can already hear them saying "another one down".

I'm not sure what the best method is to stop their growth or their methods. I think the more we attempt to shut them down the stronger they will become as they claim they are being victimized and the more sympathetic (less intelligent) republicans will join up. Even so - I don't think we can continue to ignore or downplay the threats. I think there are laws in this Country that need to start being enforced. Incitement to commit murder, incitement of sedition, etc. People who use violent rhetoric on the public stage should face consequences for their actions. It is not only lacking in civility, not only inhumane, in many cases it is also illegal.

Freedom of speech is a great thing - but when you make violent threats against other people there should be consequences.

What the tea party movement most reminds me of is the Nazi party prior to Hitler's coming to power. The governmental powers in Germany also believed they could use Hitler, tame him, make him their puppet. They forgot the lessons of history - you cannot reason with tyrants and you cannot tame delusional war mongers. It is small now, but it is time, I think, to start taking the threat more seriously before it grows. What to do about it though... I'm not so sure.

[RKP5637]

139. Many in this country have no generational memory. They forget, never knew

WWII and the tactics used to overtake Germany. We have many examples to this throughout history, but sadly ignorance rules today in America. Many Americans IMO are still asleep at the wheel, someone else will vote for them, take care of it for them, whatever lame excuse comes to mind.

[goforit]

89. Arizona is the new Mexico .....totally lawless.

[jpak]

91. Don't Retreat! Reload!!111 Isn't that what Victim Sarah told him to do?

And there isn't any reason to fear the Arizona Tea Party

They are "freedom friendly"!!

yup

[Hatchling]

93. All the snarking here; I respect the man for this.

He has put his family above an element in his party that has already threatened him. Either he was one of those rarities (a Republican with a conscience) or he found one hopping on board when he realized the "non-political" cause of the shooting or, just maybe, his wife was asking him that question at the top of her lungs!

Some heroes are those that live to fight another day and prepare their children to fight the moral battle.

I'm happy that this man is taking his children out of the shooting range. I find any man who values adherence to a bad job over his children to be an abuser to those children This man is a hero to his family because it takes guts to resign from this kind of job.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

[guitar man]

95. yep

;)

[defendandprotect]

96. GOP and T-baggers are the same people .... Miller may not quite yet understand that ....

Republican liberals and moderates are long gone -- as the right wing elites

worked thru the GOP to poison the system -- including the Democratic Party --

using political violence and wealth -- and they're not quite where they want

to be yet.

One of my biggest worries was that the T-baggers were going to be the next step

up in accelerating this right wing political violence -- and sadly, it seems to

have been a legitimate fear.

Beyond assassinations, the public has been encouraged to themselves be more aggressive

and near-violent in the political arena.

Aggression and even violence is to be brought to our local areas -- our own doorsteps --

by the right wing -- and those who are ready and willing to come with rifle slung over

shoulder to Town Hall Meetings. No intimidation there?

Liberals need to continue to stand up against this right wing support for an

aggressive and even violent political arena which America has been being pushed

to beginning with GE's Pat Buchanan and Crossfire --

Turn off these aggressive discussions -- stop listening to people with don't stand

for what you believe in -- no matter their titles!

Deprive them of an audience -- turn off the TV's!!

[Taverner]

97. They unleashed a lion

Gnashed their teeth
And bit the country's breast

[julian09]

105. Repugs afraid of tea party; MSM afraid of Faux News

Dems appease Blue Dogs. In the summer of 09 the msm did nothing to expose Fox blatant lies and misinformation.
People acting out and tea party spreading their predjudices and Fox talking points who funded bus tours from coast to coast at events attended with guns, rifles, threats, racist signs, assaults.
The dems didn't fight back against the lies about health care, stimulus, tax policy; they let them stand.
That is all the low information voter has for information, lies and distortions. Those people riding coast to coast to disrupt and display outragous signs for the FOX cameras to capture for their coverage. Those professional instigators, on buses were most likely on unemployment, social security, Govt pensions all things they profess to be against.
The Dems and Msm need to fight the lies, not pander to the fear of being unpopular. The media is there to inform, not to misinform by unreporting lies. Joe Wilson at the last state of the union yelled out "you lie" to the president. That started the whole process of unsubstantiated claims and disrespect and misinformation to this day.
I hope that senator wanting to carry a weapon for protection, is a good shot and doesn't cause collateral damage. These type of attacks are always ambushes and if she were the target, she probably wouldn't have chance to respond. If it gives her a sense of security, go for it. While she has SELF protection in mind; I hope she thinks of her constituants safety as well.
The best defense is being honest and respectful of differences and an intelligent presentation of views on both sides of the issues. Can not please everyone all the time, even your own supporters, reasonable people can differ and see that the greater good is the desired end.

[julian09]

112. Glad to see Gov Dean agrees with my Dems

need to fight back comment on prior post.

[kath]

113. As someone said in another DU thread today

"Alternative headline: Chicken says Col Sanders not great guy after all."

[TNLib]

118. T-Baggers be crazy

I wouldn't want to be a politician in these times. These crazy fucking knuckle draggers are out for blood.

I know many in the media and in our country are in denial. But Loughner was pretty indicative of the typical teabagger.

Most teabaggers I've met don't really have a sane cohesive view of politics, they tend to be all over the map much like this guy was. Most are pro-life christians with strong anti-government views and a strong love of guns.

[EC]

119. They reap what they sow...

they spread the seeds, now they have to deal with the crop.

[derby378]

120. Black GOP Official Resigns, Citing Arizona Tea Party Threats

Source: Huffington Post

The sole black Republican Party district chairman in Arizona resigned from his post in the wake of Saturday's shooting, citing threats from the Tea Party faction and concerns for his family's safety, The Arizona Republic first reported.

Republican District 20 Chairman Anthony Miller was not the only party official to resign following the shooting that killed six and wounded 14 others, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and a federal judge. But Miller had been an especially dedicated campaigner for the GOP, and said he only stepped down in the face of "constant verbal attacks" and other forms of intimidation.

"I wasn't going to resign but decided to quit after what happened Saturday," he said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/anthony-miller-resigns-giffords-threats_n_808116.html?ref=fb&src=sp

[eleny]

121. I can see a time when we're going to need our National Guard back here at home

[Rosa Luxemburg]

126. you might be correct

this thing has been simmering around the country and it should be stamped out

[xchrom]

122. He obviously didn't own enough of the right guns. Nt

[Drale]

123. Ok seriously first off

I will never understand Minorities, Gays or Women who vote Republican, now second *clears throat* THE TEA PARTY IS RACIST OH MY GOD MY WHOLE WORLD IS COMING APART! :sarcasm:

[Kennah]

124. Being call racist is one of two things the Tea Party hates.

Black people are the other thing.

[Kingofalldems]

125. Gun nut teabaggers are on the march

[RKP5637]

132. Teabaggers = Barbarians n/t

[Imagevision]

143. Teabaggers = Scum

[CoffinEd]

145. Now we know why republicans feel so comfortable using the term...

"cut and run." Talk about projection.