Was an Official 'in the Loop'? It All Depends [CONDI BREAKS WITH CHENEY]

[truthisfreedom]

hahaha. condi better get her story straight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/25/politics/25COND.html?ex=1080882000&en=a1d86da312e0483e&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Was an Official 'in the Loop'? It All Depends

By ELISABETH BUMILLER

Published: March 25, 2004


ASHINGTON, March 24 — It is a strange occurrence in Washington when members of the well-ordered Bush White House publicly disagree with each other, but it happened on Wednesday.

Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, took exception to Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion that Richard A. Clarke, the administration's former counterterrorism chief, was "out of the loop."

On the contrary, Ms. Rice said, Mr. Clarke was very much involved in the administration's fight against terrorism.

"I would not use the word `out of the loop,' " Ms. Rice told reporters in response to a question about whether she considered it a problem that the administration's counterterrorism chief was not deeply involved "in a lot of what was going on," as Mr. Cheney said on Monday in an interview on Rush Limbaugh's radio program.

Ms. Rice painted a distinctly different picture of the involvement of Mr. Clarke, who has prompted furious responses since he asserted in a new book and in testimony on Capitol Hill that President Bush did not heed warnings before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"He was in every meeting that was held on terrorism," Ms. Rice said. "All the deputies' meetings, the principals' meeting that was held and so forth, the early meetings after Sept. 11."

<snip>

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. Angry Monkeys are Bad for Business

You know, it's not like they didn't know this was coming. What's up with the failure to get their stories straight? Guess they figured they could just sweep it under the rug like O'Neill, but for whatever reason this time people were paying attention.

They just pooped their collective pants.

[truthisfreedom]

2. i just love how condi said "clarke better get his story straight" and then

screwed the pooch with cheney on clarke in PUBLIC, ON RECORD.

[hang a left]

37. Suspicious, I am on serious tin foil alert!

"You know, it's not like they didn't know this was coming."


The book coming out on Monday, 60 Minutes on Sunday, Talk shows Monday, Tuesday, Testimony (televised) Wednesday. White House vetting the book for several months. They should have had an all out assault prepared. Something smells.....sorry folks. Hate to hamper everyone's ecstatic moments.

[Auntie Bush]

40. Maybe it doesn't' smell...

Maybe it's just so damn true...they just CAN'T defend it!
They are spinning so many lies...they can't keep up or remember them...no matter how long they've have to plan. Everyone one of them is lying! How can they possibly keep up to date? Obviously they can't! They are going down!

[yardwork]

50. I think it is another sign of the genuine incompetence at Team *

They haven't been able to do anything right.

Examples of some of their bigger screw-ups:

1. Economy was supposed to expand with tax breaks. Oops.

2. Iraqis were supposed to greet us with joy. Oops.

3. We weren't supposed to notice Halliburton and the rest. Oops.

Etc. I can't believe that they are smart enough to have engineered a careful plot over this.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

3. If Clarke was "out of the loop," what does that say about Condi?

She has to keep her own base covered. The VP didn't help her case at all. Is he hanging her out to dry?

[Cloud]

4. Just a thought

When Cheney said that Clarke was not "In the loop" he just hurt his cause right there.

Clarke knows a lot about terrorism. To not have him "in the loop" is a big mistake.

Clarke is right. This administration dropped the ball. Although the freeps would never admit it. They jumped all over Clarke immediately after 60 minutes.

[snippy]

18. Excellent point !

Only someone extremely incompetent and completely indifferent to the threat of terrorism would leave someone with Clarke's background and expertise "out of the loop."

[rocktivity]

26. VERY excellent point, Snippy

If Clarke was so "extremely incompetent and completely indifferent to the threat of terrorism" that he was "left out of the loop," he should have been replaced. If he wasn't then WHY was he left out of the loop--because he didn't buy into what the others were doing? Either Cheney and Rice are the ones who are incompetent and indifferent, or Cheney's lying just to cover HIS ass and make Clarke look like the liar!

:headbang:
rocknation

[chelaque liberal]

28. Shadow Government?

Perhaps Clarke was out of "Cheney's" loop, and Rice too, for that matter. What happens in that "undisclosed location?"

I remember a story in the Atlanta Journal in 2001 about the existence of a plan to run the government in case of an emergency situation. When the story broke Daschle denied knowledge of it. Of course the story went away the next day.

[uhhuh]

5. This is Distressing

I've noticed this a lot lately. To us, they seem disorganized and stupid, but the fact that the press doesn't give this more than a day's play worries me.

They use the talking point that they feel discredits their target even if it directly contradicts something else aimed at that target the same day. They know there will be little, if any, follow up to find out why they are saying contradictory things.
The fact that the attacks are coming from all angles shows me that they don't worry about facts, they just consider what charges will do the most damage. They probably poll to see what kind of things might discredit someone, and then make the charge. Whether it's true or not doesn't even get considered.
Think about the run up to the war. They had no evidence to support their claims. They made them because those were the ones that needed to be made to get the country behind them. The truth isn't required to make an assertion for them. I think it's only a happy accident for them when a charge they make is true. They don't even worry about it.

That's why I'm worried.

[Mari333]

25. Nightline played it up last night

and said quite plainly that it was an out and out lie for Cheney to say Clarke was out of the loop..they said he was The Big Man in the Loop, and the Time magazine editorial writer said Cheney pretty much just put his foot in his mouth with that statement on the Limbaugh show.
Clarke was indeed in the LOOP, and they showed him IN the LOOP on the picture in the White House staff terrorism meetings. He was the man, and thats why the WH is running scared.
Tough shit. They blew it, and they are being exposed for the lying bastards they are.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HydroAddict]

7. Cheney is so damn arrogant, he deserves this.

I think it's been well established that Cheney does not read the morning talking points memo.

Doesn't he always seem out of step with the rest of the gang?

[Auntie Bush]

36. That's because he's in his own private

undisclosed Spiderhole (out of the loop himself) planning his own takeover of the government when we have the next terrorist attack...and he will be sure that we have one...count on it!

I wonder if the shadow government is composed of all Republicans?
I think the American people deserve to learn more about this plan! Why isn't anyone asking? Curious minds want to know! So do I!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Well, ummmm....

traditionally, it's the VP who's out of the loop.

Veeps have no real duties, and there's no reason to include them in these meetings, and they rarely are included.

Particularly when they spend most of their time at "undisclosed locations."

[Sugarbleus]

9. Ha! according to the article by Plaid Adder on DU home page..

sounds like Bush was "out of the Loop"........and always has been. lol

[snippy]

19. Clarke had access to Bush and Rice which proves he was out of the loop?

[Sugarbleus]

56. Hi snip, I'm not sure what your reply means but just in case

I was making a joke based on something weird and funny that was in that article on DU home page written by Plaid Adder. She said Clarke talked about Bush "wandering" around in background looking like a lost child or something, wanting "something" to do when all the other officials were busy trying to figure out strategy. Bush is such a flake....like in "loopy"

Clarke was there, and there in MIND and body.

[MinnFats]

10. Rice looks like she has not slept in a week. I think she's getting ready..

...to jump ship.
Ah, wishful thinking.
But I don't think she expected to be called upon to lie this frequently, this blatantly, or this consistently when she signed up to join the Bushita regime.
She may yet crack.
It's a sin to tell a lie, Condi.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

11. Visions of pitchforks and torches dancing in her head...n/t

[sadiesworld]

48. C'mon Condi...

Give up the goods on Smirk and Dickless and the rest of the cabal...President Kerry will pardon you.

[maddezmom]

12. condi and cheney need to get their story straight

looks like they are the one out of the loop, along with bush of course.

[Disturbed]

13. Ms Rice

She may be Bushco's scapegoat.

[leftchick]

14. isn't cheney still spewing saddam/al qauida every chance he gets?!?

sounds like he is out of the loop... :eyes:

[tlcandie]

15. I can't say it wouldn't be nice to see that Colon and Condi get what's

coming to them, but if they get ALL of this stuck on them then that is one last arrogant, spiteful, hateful thing this cabal will have done!

[dbt]

16. Watergate Flashback #6

Seems that CondoLizard is being left to "twist slowly, slowy in the wind," doesn't it?

:evilgrin:
dbt

Oops! Here's #7 (in advance of appropriate developments) "Let them listen to what we say, but let them watch what we do." John Mitchell

[0007]

17. Love the John Mitchell quote -

is Martha still living?

[dbt]

20. No. She died some years back.

IIRC, she was talking about a "conspiracy" and how the Nixonians were trying to "silence" her. Interesting in light of what we've learned about the Pugs since then...

:freak:
dbt

[susu369]

21. Martha Mitchell -

died from cancer at age 57. Rest in peace.

Psychologically, I find Cheney's phrase "out of the loop" very telling.

Remember Bush The First lied to the public when he claimed he was "out of the loop" on Iran-Contra? That phrase forever linked Bush to being either a liar or incompentent - or both. (Hey, Cheney, got something from the past sticking in your craw?)

[0007]

34. Remembering those days in the 70's how they sedated that

poor lady locked in a room to keep her quiet, while John testified?

And how can anyone forget Bush senior lying to the public when he claimed he was "out of the loop" on Iran/Contra. In reality Mr. Bush was a liar and incompetent. Remember when he said he didn't know that supermarkets had scanners? When most had them for five years or more.

[yellowcanine]

42. Pubbies lie so much they can't keep straight who is "in the loop" and who

is the designated fall guy when the sh*t hits the fan. It seems that Clarke has completely flummoxed them.
Worst political week of the * presidency. Hands down. And I haven't forgotten the defection of Jeffords (Oh happy day!).

[yellowcanine]

43. oops. duplicate post. Ignore.

.

[Tuttle]

22. Jon Stewart has some great observations

especially the one about McClellan, countering that Bush 'wasn't in the Situations Room on Sept 12..." to question Clarke's timeline.

Stewart did one of his trademark quadruple-takes and said "If Bush wasn't in the Situations Room on September 12, when has he EVER been in there??? It's time to take the plastic off the chairs in there and use it!"

For this comment, there was the most robust applause I've ever heard on that show!

Tut-tut

[FlaGranny]

23. They really can't have it both ways, can they?

Either Clarke was not in the loop and therefore they were negligent for not having him in the loop OR he WAS in the loop and they ignored his advice. Either way, they don't look so good.

[snippy]

24. That sums it up perfectly.

[Barkley]

32. Good point - n/t.

[Ganja Ninja]

33. How can you not have your top terrorism expert and a man that ...

had been on the job longer than anyone in the administration not in the loop? Sounds like there wasn't any loop at all.

[Auntie Bush]

38. Maybe the loop is shaped like the infinity sign and never ending.

[snippy]

47. Maybe this picture of Bush illustrates the loop.

[Occulus]

55. that, and worse

here's their loop:



a single side and it never ends.

[yardwork]

52. No loop is about right.

"Perhaps Dick felt that he had, you know, less — he didn't sit with Powell and Rumsfeld and so forth," Ms. Rice said. "It's just not the way we operate. I did sit with Powell and Rumsfeld and Tenet."

Sounds like they were all sitting around on their hands.

[bmbmd]

27. This will put an end

to the Rice for VP speculation. She is being groomed for the scapegoat role. Clarke got accolades for being the first to apologize to the families for his part in the failure. Look for Rice to apologize at some point.

[SidDithers]

46. I was just about to post the same thing...

then I saw yours :)

No way, no how, can she be a vp consideration now.

Sid

[Jack Rabbit]

29. She has to say that

If Clarke was out of the loop, then Dr. Rice can be accused of not doing her job. It was her responsibility as National Security Advisor to keep the couterterrorism chief in the loop.

Does Cheney clear his lies with anyone before he tells them? I doubt it. He was the one who kept on talking about Saddam's association with terrorism after the rest of the liars gave up on that one.

Cheney really needs to check with the liar-in-chief before he speaks. Rove must feel terribly dissed.

[yardwork]

53. "Rove must feel terribly dissed."

LOL!!

Yes, I imagine they are snapping and snarling at one another pretty good right about now.

[Barkley]

30. Here's more amo for the Democrats

Let hope they use it against Bush in the 2004 campaign.

Clarke's testimony proves once again that Bush is not qualified to be President.

The press has invested considerable time into Clarke. For Cheney to say he's wasn't in the loop, is also an implicit attack on the media.

[54anickel]

31. Shrub's official response to Clarke's book -

[74dodgedart]

35. Maybe Cheney wasn't in the loop

[JoFerret]

39. America must hear from Condi Rice

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/176786p-153877c.html

[yellowcanine]

41. Oops - more evidence that Clarke caught the Bushbots with their pants down

(sorry about the negative mind picture that the headline might have triggered about your favorite bushbot)

They haven't gotten the "story" straight. They are so busy flinging mud hoping something will stick that they forgot to make sure they are all reaching into the same bucket of mud.

[sybylla]

44. Perhaps the Dr. realizes the ridiculousness of the claim

that THE "counterterrorism chief" could possibly be out of the loop on counterterrorism efforts. If that claim is even remotely possible, this administration should be impeached for criminal incompetence for keeping the "counterterrorism chief" out of the loop.

[OilemFirchen]

45. "I would not use the word `out of the loop,' "

Math not her strong suit?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. Ha. She meant "phrase"

English not a strong one in that case.

[truthisfreedom]

51. i would not use the word "out of the loop" either, condi, because it's not

a word, IDIOT.

[Ganja Ninja]

54. Can we ever have a Republican administration that doesn't ...

use the lame "out of the loop" excuse? When did they first coin this anyway? I'll bet money it was Rummy that first thought it up back in Nixon's term.